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leighla
Support Cancer Research
Member since 5/05 16353 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Okay, let me start by saying that:
1. I agree that animals shouldn't be tested on for frivilous things (make-up, hair dye, etc.).
2. I understand the whole "a cell is a human and it's not right to test on humans" perspective (even if I don't agree - I do understand).
With that said, my question is, do you believe ALL research on animals is wrong and stem cells should NEVER be used?
And, if so, how do you expect there to be advancements in science and health without these kinds of testing?
What/who should we test vacinnes and medicines and herbal remedies on? Humans? Prisoners? Hobos?
I just want to understand where the line is drawn between helping the cute furry animals and protecting the maybe-babies and saving actual living people?
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Posted 11/30/06 2:44 PM  |
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azoodie
Member since 8/05 8377 total posts
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Team SEXY BACK
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Animal testing is a sore subject for me. While I do agree it is necessary in some instances, I think some people take it for granted. The stuff that bothers me the most is testing on primates 
Although I am not completely against it, I could never do it myself
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| Posted 11/30/06 2:48 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
i personally DO feel that ALL animal testing is wrong. besides from my personal beliefs on why it is wrong they simply do not have the same bodies as us. htey have different immune systems, etc etc etc. they are not humans. why we would test human products on animals is beyond me.
a cell to me is NOT a human being. it is a cell. i see no harm in testing on a cell.
and not for nothing, i believe we would get better results from testing on cells as oposesed to monkeys and bunnies and cats
jmo
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| Posted 11/30/06 2:50 PM |
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dpli
Daylight savings :)
Member since 5/05 13973 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
I think the problem with many of these debates is that they are often presented in black and white, or in absolutes, when really there is a lot of grey area to be discussed.
I don't have a problem with animal testing for things that can improve human life, like medicine or cures for disease. I know there are a lot of pet lovers on here, but I just don't equate animal life with human life.
As for stem cells, I can sort of understand both sides. I think if embryos are going to be disposed of, it would be better to put them to good use. However, if one believes that the embryo is a life, I can see how the idea of using embryonic stem cells is wrong. I don't think life begins in a petri dish, so I think stem cell research can do the world a lot of good.
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| Posted 11/30/06 2:54 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Posted by dpli
I don't have a problem with animal testing for things that can improve human life, like medicine or cures for disease. I know there are a lot of pet lovers on here, but I just don't equate animal life with human life.
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i can undrstand how you don't equate animal life with human life. i respect that.
BUT these animals are completely tortured. The feel pain, sadness, fear, etc. To me, once they start with some sort of HUMANE testing on animals, maybe my views could change.
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| Posted 11/30/06 2:57 PM |
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azoodie
Member since 8/05 8377 total posts
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Team SEXY BACK
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Posted by ThusSpokeLaLolita
BUT these animals are completely tortured. The feel pain, sadness, fear, etc. To me, once they start with some sort of HUMANE testing on animals, maybe my views could change.
I wouldn't say they're tortured exactly. Every institution that has animal testing has a committee that approves whatever procedures are to be done, what sort of animals they will be using and ask questions like are there any alternatives etc.
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:02 PM |
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dpli
Daylight savings :)
Member since 5/05 13973 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Posted by ThusSpokeLaLolita
Posted by dpli
I don't have a problem with animal testing for things that can improve human life, like medicine or cures for disease. I know there are a lot of pet lovers on here, but I just don't equate animal life with human life.
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i can undrstand how you don't equate animal life with human life. i respect that.
BUT these animals are completely tortured. The feel pain, sadness, fear, etc. To me, once they start with some sort of HUMANE testing on animals, maybe my views could change.
So, would you refuse to take drugs that were tested on animals? I am not trying to start trouble, just curious. I was thinking of the whole thing with Linda McCartney when she got breast cancer.....
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:02 PM |
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baghag
:P
Member since 5/05 10278 total posts
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Posted by dpli
I think the problem with many of these debates is that they are often presented in black and white, or in absolutes, when really there is a lot of grey area to be discussed.
I don't have a problem with animal testing for things that can improve human life, like medicine or cures for disease. I know there are a lot of pet lovers on here, but I just don't equate animal life with human life.
As for stem cells, I can sort of understand both sides. I think if embryos are going to be disposed of, it would be better to put them to good use. However, if one believes that the embryo is a life, I can see how the idea of using embryonic stem cells is wrong. I don't think life begins in a petri dish, so I think stem cell research can do the world a lot of good.
As usual- I agree, and you said it better than I could have. 
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:05 PM |
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neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Posted by azoodie
Posted by ThusSpokeLaLolita
BUT these animals are completely tortured. The feel pain, sadness, fear, etc. To me, once they start with some sort of HUMANE testing on animals, maybe my views could change.
I wouldn't say they're tortured exactly. Every institution that has animal testing has a committee that approves whatever procedures are to be done, what sort of animals they will be using and ask questions like are there any alternatives etc.
i agree. it's not all like a scene right out of a PETA commercial. 
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:05 PM |
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conigs25
So in love with this kid!
Member since 5/06 11197 total posts
Name:
Michele
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
God Im all over the place w/ this. I hate the thought of animal testing, but i realize that in some cases, its all we have.
Stem Cell research i highly agree w/ and wish it would become legal bc i think its INSANE that we let innoncent, already living people, DIE bc we dont have treatments for them, yet we value a cell that , IMO, is not life. And yes, thats MY opinion!
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:06 PM |
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leighla
Support Cancer Research
Member since 5/05 16353 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Posted by ThusSpokeLaLolita
besides from my personal beliefs on why it is wrong they simply do not have the same bodies as us. htey have different immune systems, etc etc etc. they are not humans. why we would test human products on animals is beyond me.
jmo
That's actually not scientifically true. Most researchers and scientist believe that there are many physiological similarities between humans and animals.
I thought this site was really interesting.
It's the Foundation for Biomedical Research and it has a listing of all the Nobel Prize winning work in physiology and medicine.
http://www.fbresearch.org/Education/nobels.htm
Just something to think about.
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:08 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Posted by neeniebean86
i agree. it's not all like a scene right out of a PETA commercial.
Azad & Neen, youre totally right, not all testing is like that, I mean until ALL is done humanely..... I should have been more specific and worded it better.
I just can't allow myself to use products that I know someone or something has been tortured for.
There is just so muhc animal testing out there that how do you know which products were tested humaley and which ones were tested inhumanely, ya know.....
until there is no more unnecassary , inhumane testing my feelings on this subject probably wont change.
i hope i worded this properly
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:09 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Posted by leighla
Posted by ThusSpokeLaLolita
besides from my personal beliefs on why it is wrong they simply do not have the same bodies as us. htey have different immune systems, etc etc etc. they are not humans. why we would test human products on animals is beyond me.
jmo
Most researchers and scientist believe that there are many physiological similarities between humans and animals.
"similiarities" being the key word here.
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:11 PM |
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neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Posted by ThusSpokeLaLolita
Posted by leighla
Posted by ThusSpokeLaLolita
besides from my personal beliefs on why it is wrong they simply do not have the same bodies as us. htey have different immune systems, etc etc etc. they are not humans. why we would test human products on animals is beyond me.
jmo
Most researchers and scientist believe that there are many physiological similarities between humans and animals.
"similiarities" being the key word here.
yes, but they are strong enough similarities in the areas that it needs to be to make it of value. The only step closer would be to use an actual human.
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:13 PM |
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azoodie
Member since 8/05 8377 total posts
Name:
Team SEXY BACK
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Jess I hear you. It's hard for me too, I am a huge animal lover. In the animal facility here they have all sorts of animals: mice, pigs, cats, dogs even monkies.
It breaks my heart and I would never do anything associated with the use of these animals, but either way I've chosen to accept this is a way of life and that all I can hope for is that they are treated properly and under the guidelines this instituation provides.
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:13 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Posted by dpli
So, would you refuse to take drugs that were tested on animals? I am not trying to start trouble, just curious. I was thinking of the whole thing with Linda McCartney when she got breast cancer.....
Dont worry, I know you're not trying to start trouble. I think we should be able to have a civilized debate here on this topic.
Lets see, would I refuse to take drugs tested on animals.
In almost all instances, YES--- as long as i knew they were tested on animals.
I actually already have stopped using certain medications due to animal testing (i.e. Busch & Lamb--- is that the name? I dont use their medicines due to animal testing)
But if i had a life threatening disease maybe I would. I honestly am thankful I don't have to know what i would do.
But my first initial feeling is no, i would not. Only if i had cancer or aids or another life threatening disease would i consider it.
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:14 PM |
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TheLorax
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Member since 2/06 5581 total posts
Name:
Suzanne / SuzBride
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
I am 100% for stem cell research. First of all, testing on animals is not 100% indicitive of what the effects of a drug (for example) would be on a human - as there are physiological differences (even between a human and a monkey). There are many cases of drugs that proved safe through animal tests, and were actually not safe for humans.
I am 100% against all avoidable animal research - ie. anything that could be done on cultures, invitro tests, stem cells. I think that if it is a choice between testing on non-sentient cells or sentient, feeling, living, beautiful creatures, that the choice should be obvious.
Message edited 11/30/2006 3:17:19 PM.
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:15 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Posted by azoodie
Jess I hear you. It's hard for me too, I am a huge animal lover. In the animal facility here they have all sorts of animals: mice, pigs, cats, dogs even monkies.
It breaks my heart and I would never do anything associated with the use of these animals, but either way I've chosen to accept this is a way of life and that all I can hope for is that they are treated properly and under the guidelines this instituation provides.
Sometimes that is all you CAN do, is hope they are bieng treated properly and that a cure comes out of their research
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:16 PM |
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azoodie
Member since 8/05 8377 total posts
Name:
Team SEXY BACK
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Posted by neeniebean86
Posted by ThusSpokeLaLolita
Posted by leighla
Posted by ThusSpokeLaLolita
besides from my personal beliefs on why it is wrong they simply do not have the same bodies as us. htey have different immune systems, etc etc etc. they are not humans. why we would test human products on animals is beyond me.
jmo
Most researchers and scientist believe that there are many physiological similarities between humans and animals.
"similiarities" being the key word here.
yes, but they are strong enough similarities in the areas that it needs to be to make it of value. The only step closer would be to use an actual human.
Actually pigs are a great example of how similar they can be:
pigs and humans
The use of other animal models like mice is because they're cheap, easy to breed, their genome has been sequenced, and they're small and don't take up a lot of space.
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:16 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
i just wanted to throw in that IMO testing on makeup (i.e. CoverGirl) , hair products (i.e. L'Oreal) is different then testing for cures for cancer.
then you have things, like today, POM juice gives animals heart disease, or high cholestoral or whatever to inturn see if POM can help that.
To me, THAT is unnecassary and unethical
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:18 PM |
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leighla
Support Cancer Research
Member since 5/05 16353 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Posted by ThusSpokeLaLolita
i just wanted to throw in that IMO testing on makeup (i.e. CoverGirl) , hair products (i.e. L'Oreal) is different then testing for cures for cancer.
then you have things, like today, POM juice gives animals heart disease, or high cholestoral or whatever to inturn see if POM can help that.
To me, THAT is unnecassary and unethical
But what if POM does turn out to help cure heart disease and cancer?
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:34 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Posted by leighla
Posted by ThusSpokeLaLolita
i just wanted to throw in that IMO testing on makeup (i.e. CoverGirl) , hair products (i.e. L'Oreal) is different then testing for cures for cancer.
then you have things, like today, POM juice gives animals heart disease, or high cholestoral or whatever to inturn see if POM can help that.
To me, THAT is unnecassary and unethical
But what if POM does turn out to help cure heart disease and cancer?
i highly doubt a fruitjuice could cure cancer.
thats not their goal anywya.
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:42 PM |
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neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
Posted by ThusSpokeLaLolita
i highly doubt a fruitjuice could cure cancer.
thats not their goal anywya.
cherries can be used to alleviate the symptoms of gout- so ya never know 
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:48 PM |
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Hi-Fi55
12 years...wow....
Member since 2/06 2984 total posts
Name:
Dianne
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
I am for animal testing. Without that, we wouldn't have penicillin or organ transplants, . It's where we began in the medical field. Every field has to have its starting point. I love animals and of course I don't want to see them tortured, but there are guidelines to follow, you just have to hope they are being followed.
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:48 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: Spinoff from 2 posts: Animal Testing and Stem Cells
to each their own
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| Posted 11/30/06 3:50 PM |
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