| Posted By |
Message |
| Pages: << 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 |
BunnyWife
Insert Witty Comment Here
Member since 5/07 8274 total posts
Name:
BunnyWife
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by evnme
Mainstream media will not cover this down the middle. I could post tons of articles and videos of other news outlets covering it.
Here is an interview w Christiane amanpour (sp)
So, one nut case cleric said this. There is a reason NPR, BBC and the like wouldn't cover that. It's sensationalism and not actual journalism. This guy said the lady on the panel is not a muslim because she doesn't wear hijab. That's like saying you're not jewish if you don't wear a yarmulke or your not catholic because you don't pray the rosary.
|
Posted 8/4/14 12:47 PM  |
| |
|
Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by RocPin
Posted by MandJZ
Bunnywife, and others, I appreciate engaging in constructive, rational discussion on the subject. However, I refuse to continue a discussion when even one person involved refuses to acknowledge that Hamas is a terrorist group. Yes, I clearly have a biased opinion on the subject but I am also extremely well educated on the topic and the history of the region and I am a very liberal, left-leaning person. I am not one of those hard-liners who makes vast, sweeping statements about all Arabs or even all Palestinians. I don't hate anyone, and my heart aches over the pain, suffering, and deaths of Palestinian/Gazan civilians and children. I simply don't know what a better course of action in this case would be, as I said before what is Israel to do? If she lays down her weapons she is no longer protecting her citizens.
That said, I am bowing out of the conversation now because I can not and will not continue to argue in circles with someone who very clearly and openly claimed a few pages back that Hamas is not a terrorist group, and compared Hamas to Nelson Mandela.
I consider my comprehension of this entire conflict fairly new. I just want to say THANK YOU for your contribution to these threads! You have provided a wealth of knowledge and compassion for both sides between this post and the previous one. I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts and I hope this thread goes on in a respectable manner because it is very insightful. Thank you again!
Thank you so much for saying this. I, as everyone can, do sometimes let my emotions get the better of me. But in general I try to take a deep breath and speak on the subject from a place of knowledge rather than emotion. I just find it difficult to engage in constructive discussion with hard-liners on EITHER side. I am more than happy to continue the discussion or answer questions/provide helpful links to anyone via PM.
|
| Posted 8/4/14 12:50 PM |
| |
|
MrsA1012
love my little girl !
Member since 9/10 5777 total posts
Name:
Me
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Hamas spokesman telling civilians to stay in their homes and act as shields :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXZEzbT0H1s
|
| Posted 8/4/14 12:55 PM |
| |
|
buttercup
St. Jude pray for us...
Member since 1/11 2951 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by MandJZ
Bunnywife, and others, I appreciate engaging in constructive, rational discussion on the subject. However, I refuse to continue a discussion when even one person involved refuses to acknowledge that Hamas is a terrorist group. Yes, I clearly have a biased opinion on the subject but I am also extremely well educated on the topic and the history of the region and I am a very liberal, left-leaning person. I am not one of those hard-liners who makes vast, sweeping statements about all Arabs or even all Palestinians. I don't hate anyone, and my heart aches over the pain, suffering, and deaths of Palestinian/Gazan civilians and children. I simply don't know what a better course of action in this case would be, as I said before what is Israel to do? If she lays down her weapons she is no longer protecting her citizens.
That said, I am bowing out of the conversation now because I can not and will not continue to argue in circles with someone who very clearly and openly claimed a few pages back that Hamas is not a terrorist group, and compared Hamas to Nelson Mandela.
You have provided a wealth of information that I probably would have not had the chance to hear about - a perspective that I'm glad that I had the chance to understand and to top it all off I appreciate that you did this is in a every calm and composed manner. 
|
| Posted 8/4/14 12:55 PM |
| |
|
MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by buttercup
Posted by MandJZ
Bunnywife, and others, I appreciate engaging in constructive, rational discussion on the subject. However, I refuse to continue a discussion when even one person involved refuses to acknowledge that Hamas is a terrorist group. Yes, I clearly have a biased opinion on the subject but I am also extremely well educated on the topic and the history of the region and I am a very liberal, left-leaning person. I am not one of those hard-liners who makes vast, sweeping statements about all Arabs or even all Palestinians. I don't hate anyone, and my heart aches over the pain, suffering, and deaths of Palestinian/Gazan civilians and children. I simply don't know what a better course of action in this case would be, as I said before what is Israel to do? If she lays down her weapons she is no longer protecting her citizens.
That said, I am bowing out of the conversation now because I can not and will not continue to argue in circles with someone who very clearly and openly claimed a few pages back that Hamas is not a terrorist group, and compared Hamas to Nelson Mandela.
You have provided a wealth of information that I probably would have not had the chance to hear about - a perspective that I'm glad that I had the chance to understand and to top it all off I appreciate that you did this is in a every calm and composed manner.
Thank you
|
| Posted 8/4/14 12:57 PM |
| |
|
evnme
My little lamb
Member since 8/05 12633 total posts
Name:
aka momma2b
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
And CNN with son of Hamas leader
|
| Posted 8/4/14 12:57 PM |
| |
|
BunnyWife
Insert Witty Comment Here
Member since 5/07 8274 total posts
Name:
BunnyWife
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by buttercup
Posted by MandJZ
Bunnywife, and others, I appreciate engaging in constructive, rational discussion on the subject. However, I refuse to continue a discussion when even one person involved refuses to acknowledge that Hamas is a terrorist group. Yes, I clearly have a biased opinion on the subject but I am also extremely well educated on the topic and the history of the region and I am a very liberal, left-leaning person. I am not one of those hard-liners who makes vast, sweeping statements about all Arabs or even all Palestinians. I don't hate anyone, and my heart aches over the pain, suffering, and deaths of Palestinian/Gazan civilians and children. I simply don't know what a better course of action in this case would be, as I said before what is Israel to do? If she lays down her weapons she is no longer protecting her citizens.
That said, I am bowing out of the conversation now because I can not and will not continue to argue in circles with someone who very clearly and openly claimed a few pages back that Hamas is not a terrorist group, and compared Hamas to Nelson Mandela.
You have provided a wealth of information that I probably would have not had the chance to hear about - a perspective that I'm glad that I had the chance to understand and to top it all off I appreciate that you did this is in a every calm and composed manner.
Thank you
I have to say I'm really proud for the most part that this thread has remained respectful and the discussion intelligent and nuanced. I hope you don't leave MandJZ because your insight is important to the conversation
Message edited 8/4/2014 1:00:38 PM.
|
| Posted 8/4/14 1:00 PM |
| |
|
MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by buttercup
Posted by MandJZ
Bunnywife, and others, I appreciate engaging in constructive, rational discussion on the subject. However, I refuse to continue a discussion when even one person involved refuses to acknowledge that Hamas is a terrorist group. Yes, I clearly have a biased opinion on the subject but I am also extremely well educated on the topic and the history of the region and I am a very liberal, left-leaning person. I am not one of those hard-liners who makes vast, sweeping statements about all Arabs or even all Palestinians. I don't hate anyone, and my heart aches over the pain, suffering, and deaths of Palestinian/Gazan civilians and children. I simply don't know what a better course of action in this case would be, as I said before what is Israel to do? If she lays down her weapons she is no longer protecting her citizens.
That said, I am bowing out of the conversation now because I can not and will not continue to argue in circles with someone who very clearly and openly claimed a few pages back that Hamas is not a terrorist group, and compared Hamas to Nelson Mandela.
You have provided a wealth of information that I probably would have not had the chance to hear about - a perspective that I'm glad that I had the chance to understand and to top it all off I appreciate that you did this is in a every calm and composed manner.
Thank you
I have to say I'm really proud for the most part that this thread has remained respectful and the discussion intelligent and nuanced. I hope you don't leave MandJZ because your insight is important to the conversation
I'm still lurking, clearly, and I will respond directly to comments or posts for which I have something useful or relevant to add. But I won't engage in certain types of discussion.
|
| Posted 8/4/14 1:04 PM |
| |
|
BunnyWife
Insert Witty Comment Here
Member since 5/07 8274 total posts
Name:
BunnyWife
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by evnme
And CNN with son of Hamas leader
I think we all know and realize that Hamas is insane and their take on Islam completed manipulated. That is all true, but it doesn't make the deaths of all these people any less of a tragedy.
A question for anyone who feels like discussing it: What do you think the best course of action would be to achieve a lasting peace? I think we can all agree this tactic (meaning war) is not working. Isn't the definition of insanity essentially doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different outcome?
|
| Posted 8/4/14 1:05 PM |
| |
|
MrsA1012
love my little girl !
Member since 9/10 5777 total posts
Name:
Me
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by buttercup
Posted by MandJZ
Bunnywife, and others, I appreciate engaging in constructive, rational discussion on the subject. However, I refuse to continue a discussion when even one person involved refuses to acknowledge that Hamas is a terrorist group. Yes, I clearly have a biased opinion on the subject but I am also extremely well educated on the topic and the history of the region and I am a very liberal, left-leaning person. I am not one of those hard-liners who makes vast, sweeping statements about all Arabs or even all Palestinians. I don't hate anyone, and my heart aches over the pain, suffering, and deaths of Palestinian/Gazan civilians and children. I simply don't know what a better course of action in this case would be, as I said before what is Israel to do? If she lays down her weapons she is no longer protecting her citizens.
That said, I am bowing out of the conversation now because I can not and will not continue to argue in circles with someone who very clearly and openly claimed a few pages back that Hamas is not a terrorist group, and compared Hamas to Nelson Mandela.
You have provided a wealth of information that I probably would have not had the chance to hear about - a perspective that I'm glad that I had the chance to understand and to top it all off I appreciate that you did this is in a every calm and composed manner.
Thank you
I have to say I'm really proud for the most part that this thread has remained respectful and the discussion intelligent and nuanced. I hope you don't leave MandJZ because your insight is important to the conversation
|
| Posted 8/4/14 1:07 PM |
| |
|
MrsA1012
love my little girl !
Member since 9/10 5777 total posts
Name:
Me
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
One more, for anyone who is interested. Hamas in its own words:
|
| Posted 8/4/14 1:08 PM |
| |
|
MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by evnme
And CNN with son of Hamas leader
I think we all know and realize that Hamas is insane and their take on Islam completed manipulated. That is all true, but it doesn't make the deaths of all these people any less of a tragedy.
A question for anyone who feels like discussing it: What do you think the best course of action would be to achieve a lasting peace? I think we can all agree this tactic (meaning war) is not working. Isn't the definition of insanity essentially doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different outcome?
The removal of Hamas from power. Unfortunately, that may mean violence. I don't know how to achieve peace without first removing Hamas. After that, the international community helping to install a moderate Palestinian leadership, and then discussing a two-state solution.
|
| Posted 8/4/14 1:10 PM |
| |
|
MrsA1012
love my little girl !
Member since 9/10 5777 total posts
Name:
Me
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by evnme
And CNN with son of Hamas leader
I think we all know and realize that Hamas is insane and their take on Islam completed manipulated. That is all true, but it doesn't make the deaths of all these people any less of a tragedy.
A question for anyone who feels like discussing it: What do you think the best course of action would be to achieve a lasting peace? I think we can all agree this tactic (meaning war) is not working. Isn't the definition of insanity essentially doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different outcome?
I think that Hamas MUST be ousted and replaced with moderate leadership that is willing to negotiate in good faith with Israel and spend aid money on improving life for the people of Gaza . If that were the case, a two state solution could be implemented. As long as Hamas is in power, I cannot see things improving.
Message edited 8/4/2014 1:11:47 PM.
|
| Posted 8/4/14 1:11 PM |
| |
|
evnme
My little lamb
Member since 8/05 12633 total posts
Name:
aka momma2b
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
The best course of action would be to get Hamas and Islamic jihad out as the leaders of Gaza and give it back to the Palestinians. But the unity gov't Abbas formed w them screws that up. We need moderates, not extremists and terrorists running Gaza. And to stop colluding w turkey, Qatar, Iran, etc.
But that is highly doubtful outcome in our lifetime.
|
| Posted 8/4/14 1:11 PM |
| |
|
BunnyWife
Insert Witty Comment Here
Member since 5/07 8274 total posts
Name:
BunnyWife
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by evnme
And CNN with son of Hamas leader
I think we all know and realize that Hamas is insane and their take on Islam completed manipulated. That is all true, but it doesn't make the deaths of all these people any less of a tragedy.
A question for anyone who feels like discussing it: What do you think the best course of action would be to achieve a lasting peace? I think we can all agree this tactic (meaning war) is not working. Isn't the definition of insanity essentially doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different outcome?
The removal of Hamas from power. Unfortunately, that may mean violence. I don't know how to achieve peace without first removing Hamas. After that, the international community helping to install a moderate Palestinian leadership, and then discussing a two-state solution.
Do you think the removal of women and children from Gaza could make that possibility more a reality? I wonder if the international community would be behind Israel and it's removal of Hamas if women and kids were moved out of harms way. Just something I've been thinking about lately...
|
| Posted 8/4/14 1:13 PM |
| |
|
MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by evnme
And CNN with son of Hamas leader
I think we all know and realize that Hamas is insane and their take on Islam completed manipulated. That is all true, but it doesn't make the deaths of all these people any less of a tragedy.
A question for anyone who feels like discussing it: What do you think the best course of action would be to achieve a lasting peace? I think we can all agree this tactic (meaning war) is not working. Isn't the definition of insanity essentially doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different outcome?
The removal of Hamas from power. Unfortunately, that may mean violence. I don't know how to achieve peace without first removing Hamas. After that, the international community helping to install a moderate Palestinian leadership, and then discussing a two-state solution.
Do you think the removal of women and children from Gaza could make that possibility more a reality? I wonder if the international community would be behind Israel and it's removal of Hamas if women and kids were moved out of harms way. Just something I've been thinking about lately...
I think it could help but I don't know how that would feasibly happen? Who would be responsible for removing them? Where would they go? And it would give too much time to Hamas to hide, leave, regroup, etc. Though it's awful, the truth is that for military action to succeed, some element of surprise is necessary. It doesn't really make sense, from a military standpoint, to say "OK we are going to wipe out Hamas sometime next week so that the women and children have a week to leave." KWIM?
|
| Posted 8/4/14 1:17 PM |
| |
|
Shhh2232
LIF Infant
Member since 9/09 333 total posts
Name:
G
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by MrsA1012
One more, for anyone who is interested. Hamas in its own words:
This video is from 2008. I do question its authenticity.
Edited to add, the other link you posted does not work.
Message edited 8/4/2014 3:39:52 PM.
|
| Posted 8/4/14 3:31 PM |
| |
|
Ian&EmmesMommy23
My family is complete!
Member since 11/08 12970 total posts
Name:
Diana
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by Shhh2232
Posted by blumachaya
Your right I hate that so many innocent people die but the only way is to recognize and respect your neighbors on both sides using children human shields should not be tolerated by anyone should be condemned by every country on this earth!!! All shooting would be stopped if Hamas would stop that I can guarantee!
This whole "human shield" ideology has also been proven false.
Captured Hamas Combat Manual Explains Benefits of Human Shields
|
| Posted 8/4/14 4:38 PM |
| |
|
blumachaya
LIF Infant
Member since 10/08 113 total posts
Name:
|
Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Thank u for that link!
|
| Posted 8/4/14 4:40 PM |
| |
|
Ian&EmmesMommy23
My family is complete!
Member since 11/08 12970 total posts
Name:
Diana
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by blumachaya
Thank u for that link!
|
| Posted 8/4/14 4:44 PM |
| |
|
Shhh2232
LIF Infant
Member since 9/09 333 total posts
Name:
G
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by IansMommy23
Posted by Shhh2232
Posted by blumachaya
Your right I hate that so many innocent people die but the only way is to recognize and respect your neighbors on both sides using children human shields should not be tolerated by anyone should be condemned by every country on this earth!!! All shooting would be stopped if Hamas would stop that I can guarantee!
This whole "human shield" ideology has also been proven false.
Captured Hamas Combat Manual Explains Benefits of Human Shields
Human Shields?
That article is from the IDF, hardly a non-biased source?
Message edited 8/4/2014 4:45:35 PM.
|
| Posted 8/4/14 4:45 PM |
| |
|
Ian&EmmesMommy23
My family is complete!
Member since 11/08 12970 total posts
Name:
Diana
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by Shhh2232
Posted by IansMommy23
Posted by Shhh2232
Posted by blumachaya
Your right I hate that so many innocent people die but the only way is to recognize and respect your neighbors on both sides using children human shields should not be tolerated by anyone should be condemned by every country on this earth!!! All shooting would be stopped if Hamas would stop that I can guarantee!
This whole "human shield" ideology has also been proven false.
Captured Hamas Combat Manual Explains Benefits of Human Shields
Human Shields?
That article is from the IDF, hardly a non-biased source?
that was july 23rd. the link i posted was from today. the manual was found. and for anyone who doesnt believe it...i'm at a loss for words.
|
| Posted 8/4/14 4:46 PM |
| |
|
Ian&EmmesMommy23
My family is complete!
Member since 11/08 12970 total posts
Name:
Diana
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by Shhh2232
Posted by IansMommy23
Posted by Shhh2232
Posted by blumachaya
Your right I hate that so many innocent people die but the only way is to recognize and respect your neighbors on both sides using children human shields should not be tolerated by anyone should be condemned by every country on this earth!!! All shooting would be stopped if Hamas would stop that I can guarantee!
This whole "human shield" ideology has also been proven false.
Captured Hamas Combat Manual Explains Benefits of Human Shields
Human Shields?
That article is from the IDF, hardly a non-biased source?
i think at this point none of the articles are non-biased.
|
| Posted 8/4/14 4:48 PM |
| |
|
Shhh2232
LIF Infant
Member since 9/09 333 total posts
Name:
G
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Exactly, and I truly believe that the IDF is using the Hamas Human Shield as another crutch to support their actions.
Can acknowledge the fact that the 3 innocent teens kidnapped were not done so by Hamas?
Can we acknowledge the fact that the Israeli soldier was most likely killed by their own missile?
2 MAJOR tragedies that happened under supposed Hamas Terrorist have been deemed untrue, whose to say that the rest isn't also?
|
| Posted 8/4/14 4:56 PM |
| |
|
MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
|
Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...
Posted by Shhh2232
Exactly, and I truly believe that the IDF is using the Hamas Human Shield as another crutch to support their actions.
Can acknowledge the fact that the 3 innocent teens kidnapped were not done so by Hamas?
Can we acknowledge the fact that the Israeli soldier was most likely killed by their own missile?
2 MAJOR tragedies that happened under supposed Hamas Terrorist have been deemed untrue, whose to say that the rest isn't also?
Actually, I'm fairly certain that the culprits behind the kidnapping and murder of the three Israeli teens has not been accurately identified at this point. So it is not true to say that it has been proven that Hamas is not responsible.
I don't know which Israeli soldier you are referring to, but if 1 of the 60-something was not killed by Hamas, there are still 60-something others who were. Further, there is plenty of evidence of Hamas killing Gazan citizens, so I'm not sure what your point is?
The history of Hamas using tactics such as human shields, schools and hospitals to store weapons, ambulances to transport them, and funneling aid money into terrorist activities is well-documented by the international community.
And why don't you acknowledge that Hamas is a terrorist group, and that both sides at the very, very least share some of the blame for this conflict. And then there can be a discussion. So far, I have seen nothing come from you that is not propaganda.
Bunnywife, I'm sorry for my tone here. I'm really trying. But with this, I just can't anymore.
|
| Posted 8/4/14 5:07 PM |
| |
|
| Pages: << 5 6 7 [8] 9 10 11 |
