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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by leighla
Don is right - there are no winners in this.
If they hadn't shot and there WAS a bomb, they would be majorly blamed for lack of action.
If they shot and killed him and there WAS a bomb, they'd be heros.
And, in this situation, if they shot and killed him and there was no bomb, well, it's incredibly sad and I'm sure the ACLU will be raising quite a stink about infringement of rights.
What I want to know is why they didn't shoot to take him down instead of shooting to kill. Maybe they were trying to, but the news reports made it sound like there was a round of shots fired.
maybe because that would stop him
being shot doesn't necessarily stop someone and they didn't want to risk a bomb being on the plane
or what if it was somehow ON him
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Posted 12/8/05 10:40 AM  |
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Leeners
:)
Member since 5/05 4898 total posts
Name:
Eileen
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by BabyAvocado
Well, I certainly don't think it's the wife's fault that he bugged out on the plane.
If this is the way the story went, then I believe they did what they had to do.
However, I have to wonder if this is how it really happened. I wonder if he ever really 'reached' for anything....
Well, with 200 witnesses, I'm pretty sure we're getting the real story. Why would you assume they wanted to kill him for something he didn't do?
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:40 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by BabyAvocado
Well, I certainly don't think it's the wife's fault that he bugged out on the plane.
If this is the way the story went, then I believe they did what they had to do.
However, I have to wonder if this is how it really happened. I wonder if he ever really 'reached' for anything....
IF she knew he was bi-polar, KNEW he wasn't taking his medication
she KNEW how he could in fact act.
and being the sane person....IMO she should have done something to prevent this!
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:41 AM |
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leighla
Support Cancer Research
Member since 5/05 16353 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by Redhead
Posted by leighla
Don is right - there are no winners in this.
If they hadn't shot and there WAS a bomb, they would be majorly blamed for lack of action.
If they shot and killed him and there WAS a bomb, they'd be heros.
And, in this situation, if they shot and killed him and there was no bomb, well, it's incredibly sad and I'm sure the ACLU will be raising quite a stink about infringement of rights.
What I want to know is why they didn't shoot to take him down instead of shooting to kill. Maybe they were trying to, but the news reports made it sound like there was a round of shots fired.
maybe because that would stop him
being shot doesn't necessarily stop someone and they didn't want to risk a bomb being on the plane
or what if it was somehow ON him
I can understand that.
I thought I read he was in the terminal and he was reaching into a bag when they shot.
The news reports are kind of muddied still.
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:41 AM |
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Elbee
Zanzibar
Member since 5/05 10767 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by Redhead
What I want to know is why they didn't shoot to take him down instead of shooting to kill. Maybe they were trying to, but the news reports made it sound like there was a round of shots fired.
Aren't cops always told to "shoot to kill" ?
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:42 AM |
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BabyAvocado
Happy New Year
Member since 5/05 17334 total posts
Name:
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by Leeners
Posted by BabyAvocado
Well, I certainly don't think it's the wife's fault that he bugged out on the plane.
If this is the way the story went, then I believe they did what they had to do.
However, I have to wonder if this is how it really happened. I wonder if he ever really 'reached' for anything....
Well, with 200 witnesses, I'm pretty sure we're getting the real story. Why would you assume they wanted to kill him for something he didn't do?
I'm not assuming they wanted to kill him, just wondering if there is a possibility that they acted hastily. And I'm sure those were 200 very scared witnesses that probably would have shot at the first flinch also...
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:42 AM |
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LadyMaravilla
Fall Is Here
Member since 5/05 12023 total posts
Name:
Sonia
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by Elbee
Posted by Redhead
What I want to know is why they didn't shoot to take him down instead of shooting to kill. Maybe they were trying to, but the news reports made it sound like there was a round of shots fired.
Aren't cops always told to "shoot to kill" ?
Let me find out....Shoot to kill it is.
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:43 AM |
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Kate
*****
Member since 5/05 7557 total posts
Name:
Kate
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
What I want to know is why they didn't shoot to take him down instead of shooting to kill. Maybe they were trying to, but the news reports made it sound like there was a round of shots fired.
Air marshals are trained to shoot to kill.
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:43 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by Elbee
Posted by Redhead
What I want to know is why they didn't shoot to take him down instead of shooting to kill. Maybe they were trying to, but the news reports made it sound like there was a round of shots fired.
Aren't cops always told to "shoot to kill" ?
i dunno...
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:43 AM |
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FelAndJon
needs to update her avatar pic
Member since 6/05 10212 total posts
Name:
Felice (aka LuckyBride2004)
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
I haven't actually heard of anyone who is saying the air marshal's did the wrong thing by shooting him. They didn't shhot to kill him, just to bring him down. When he started to reach into his bag, that is when they shot to kill.
From CNN:
Alpizar was confronted by a team of federal air marshals, who followed him down the boarding bridge and ordered him to get on the ground, the official said.
When Alpizar appeared to reach into his backpack, he was shot and wounded, the official said, adding that the marshals' actions were consistent with their training. Officials said later that the man died of his injuries.
Alpizar was traveling with a woman and had arrived in Miami on a plane from Quito, Ecuador, federal officials said. He and the woman began arguing before getting off the plane in Miami, two officials said.
A passenger, Mary Gardner, told WTVJ in Miami that the man ran frantically down the aisle from the rear of the plane, arms flailing, and that the woman accompanying him said that her husband was bipolar and had not taken his medication, according to The Associated Press.
After he got off the plane in Miami and went through customs, he got on the Orlando-bound plane and said he had a bomb, Air Marshal Service spokesman Dave Adams said. (Read about air marshals being taught to avoid risk)
Air marshals asked him to get off the plane, which he did, but when they asked him to put his bag down, he refused, Adams said. Alpizar then approached the marshals in an aggressive manner, at which point two or three shots were fired, he said.
Karlina Griffith, translating for her grandmother, witness Miriam Delgado, told WFOR television that Delgado heard three gunshots before people started running and "going crazy." ( Watch a witness account -- :40)
Officials could not confirm if Alpizar suffered from mental illness. His mother-in-law told WKMG television in Orlando that he suffered from bipolar disorder, but his brother-in-law, Steven Buechner, told CNN he was unaware of any mental problems.
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:43 AM |
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KPtoys
I'm getting old
Member since 5/05 8688 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by BabyAvocado
Well, I certainly don't think it's the wife's fault that he bugged out on the plane.
If this is the way the story went, then I believe they did what they had to do.
However, I have to wonder if this is how it really happened. I wonder if he ever really 'reached' for anything....
I read somewhere that the wife was apologizing just after it happened because she said she forced him to get on the plane.
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:44 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by leighla
maybe because that would stop him
being shot doesn't necessarily stop someone and they didn't want to risk a bomb being on the plane
or what if it was somehow ON him
I can understand that.
I thought I read he was in the terminal and he was reaching into a bag when they shot.
The news reports are kind of muddied still.
oh.i am not to sure....
i haven't read up on this incident...
so i don't know the particulars
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:44 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by KPtoys
Posted by BabyAvocado
Well, I certainly don't think it's the wife's fault that he bugged out on the plane.
If this is the way the story went, then I believe they did what they had to do.
However, I have to wonder if this is how it really happened. I wonder if he ever really 'reached' for anything....
I read somewhere that the wife was apologizing just after it happened because she said she forced him to get on the plane.
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:44 AM |
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BabyAvocado
Happy New Year
Member since 5/05 17334 total posts
Name:
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by Redhead
IF she knew he was bi-polar, KNEW he wasn't taking his medication
she KNEW how he could in fact act.
and being the sane person....IMO she should have done something to prevent this!
Yeah, maybe she could have prevented it, but that doesn't make it her fault... someone said shame on her... I don't think the blame lies on her that he has mental issues. Do we know if she knew he hadn't taken his meds before the incident started?
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:45 AM |
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Kate
*****
Member since 5/05 7557 total posts
Name:
Kate
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by leighla
I thought I read he was in the terminal and he was reaching into a bag when they shot.
The news reports are kind of muddied still.
He was in the jetway, still close enough to blow up a plane filled with fuel.
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:45 AM |
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Leeners
:)
Member since 5/05 4898 total posts
Name:
Eileen
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by BabyAvocado
Posted by Redhead
IF she knew he was bi-polar, KNEW he wasn't taking his medication
she KNEW how he could in fact act.
and being the sane person....IMO she should have done something to prevent this!
Yeah, maybe she could have prevented it, but that doesn't make it her fault... someone said shame on her... I don't think the blame lies on her that he has mental issues. Do we know if she knew he hadn't taken his meds before the incident started?
She must have because as soon as it started she said "He doesn't have his meds".
But it was she who coaxed him on the plane. I don't think it's her fault at all, I just think this is a very very unfortunate incident.
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:46 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by Leeners
Posted by BabyAvocado
Posted by Redhead
IF she knew he was bi-polar, KNEW he wasn't taking his medication
she KNEW how he could in fact act.
and being the sane person....IMO she should have done something to prevent this!
Yeah, maybe she could have prevented it, but that doesn't make it her fault... someone said shame on her... I don't think the blame lies on her that he has mental issues. Do we know if she knew he hadn't taken his meds before the incident started?
She must have because as soon as it started she said "He doesn't have his meds".
But it was she who coaxed him on the plane. I don't think it's her fault at all, I just think this is a very very unfortunate incident.
well then i think she is at fault imo.
that was an extremely bad judgement call on her part! 
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:47 AM |
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BabyAvocado
Happy New Year
Member since 5/05 17334 total posts
Name:
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by FelAndJon
IFrom CNN:
Alpizar was confronted by a team of federal air marshals, who followed him down the boarding bridge and ordered him to get on the ground, the official said.
I'm sure there weren't 200 witnesses on the boarding bridge.
But it seems that they fired to take him down and he died of his injuries which is what I would expect. They did the best they could do in this situation.
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:47 AM |
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MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.
Member since 5/05 26170 total posts
Name:
MrsERod™®
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
if this account is accurate, and he did in fact behave that way on the first plane, then he should NOT have been allowed to board another plane!!!!! plain and simple!!! ESPECIALLY IF the woman said he was bi-polar and he hadn't taken his medication!! IMO, the airline should have done something too!! maybe detain the couple for a little while, giving him a chance to take his meds....
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:48 AM |
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Leeners
:)
Member since 5/05 4898 total posts
Name:
Eileen
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by BabyAvocado
I'm not assuming they wanted to kill him, just wondering if there is a possibility that they acted hastily. And I'm sure those were 200 very scared witnesses that probably would have shot at the first flinch also...
These guys are incredibly well-trained officers. While I agree with you that it's fear that led to this death, I don't think it's unreasonable fear. They're taught exactly what to look for and at what point they need to take such extreme action and they're also taught to make split second decisions. IMO, especially since there were two marshalls, they saw something that led them to believe he truly was a danger. I would say with almost certainty there had to be more than a "flinch" for them to kill a man whose wife was yelling that he hadn't taken his meds.
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:49 AM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
Name:
Kristin
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
he also was on the plane and then ran to the jetway so he was on the plane first not the terminal
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:50 AM |
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BabyAvocado
Happy New Year
Member since 5/05 17334 total posts
Name:
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by Leeners
I would say with almost certainty there had to be more than a "flinch" for them to kill a man whose wife was yelling that he hadn't taken his meds.
Now I know that they apparently did not shoot to kill immediately, which makes a difference.
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:52 AM |
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LadyMaravilla
Fall Is Here
Member since 5/05 12023 total posts
Name:
Sonia
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Posted by BabyAvocado
Posted by Leeners
I would say with almost certainty there had to be more than a "flinch" for them to kill a man whose wife was yelling that he hadn't taken his meds.
Now I know that they apparently did not shoot to kill immediately, which makes a difference.
A friend of mine is a police officer and he says they are trained to Shoot To Kill. I'm sure Marshalls work the same way.
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| Posted 12/8/05 10:53 AM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Its a shame this happened, but I think the Air Marshals did the right thing. I just wished they had shot to injure and not to kill (which the article claims they did - and that he died later on). I feel a little better knowing there are undercover air marshalls on the planes these days.
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| Posted 12/8/05 11:01 AM |
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MommyofG
just the girls
Member since 5/05 9461 total posts
Name:
Janice
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Re: Sure to stir something... Air Marshal shooting.
Ok, being that I am going on a plane in 4 weeks by myself for the first time and out of JFK where supposedly an man from argentina did IN fact have a bomb in his shoe, I am GLAD there ARE air marshalls on the planes and they reacted the way they did.
I do indeed think its the wifes fault- hello your husband needs meds- BI POLAR is no joke- and you allow him on the plane with the added stress and fear that the average "normal" person feels getting on a plane , without his meds. Now come on. Someone is to blame for sure, and if he is not medically sane to remember and she IS his wife and with him, then yes it is HER fault. Hey who knows if this was planned!!!!! Hate to say it but you never know with him bieng Bipolar what kind of life they lived, could have been happy and healthy or terribly miserable!
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| Posted 12/8/05 11:17 AM |
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