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IrishLasss334
I'll be there soon!
Member since 1/08 6549 total posts
Name:
Patty
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by Kara
Posted by IrishLass
First, SHE is a woman. Until SHE has the surgery to change HER vagina to a penis, SHE is a woman. SHE can call herself whatever she likes, but she's still a woman.
That is all.
I guess he, the government, and the doctors who performed his sex reassignment surgery all should have checked with LIF first...
I thought this was the "man" that was on Oprah? "He" never had sex reassignement surgery in the genital area, that's what was said on Oprah.
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Posted 11/13/08 10:38 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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HeatherRose
Life is Good :)
Member since 11/07 6605 total posts
Name:
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Re: The pregnant "man"
I think it’s perfectly fine that she has decided to be a he. I really have NO problem with that at all. I'm glad he has found a happy place and feels like he belongs that way. We all just want to belong and fit in.
The only thing I don't like is how he is marketing himself to be a man, and gain public recognition, but is only able to have a baby because he still has female organs, which makes him a woman.
I will accept him as a man, when he accepts all that comes with manhood, and that’s not having a baby. I think a lot of men would love to feel what its like to have a baby growing inside of them. I don't think to many could actually handle delivering one But its almost like he's making it all out to be a joke, that he is a man.
If you want people to accept you as a man, you need to accept all that it comes with, and IMO that's not being able to carry and deliver a baby.
And look how harsh we can be on a chat site; can you imagine what those poor children are going to go through in real life?? I'm not saying it is at all right, and we should all just accept everyone for who they are, but we know were very far away from a time like that. Its sad, but true.
Message edited 11/13/2008 10:41:50 PM.
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| Posted 11/13/08 10:40 PM |
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Kidsaplenty
Sister love
Member since 2/06 5971 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by IrishLass
Posted by Kara
Posted by IrishLass
First, SHE is a woman. Until SHE has the surgery to change HER vagina to a penis, SHE is a woman. SHE can call herself whatever she likes, but she's still a woman.
That is all.
I guess he, the government, and the doctors who performed his sex reassignment surgery all should have checked with LIF first...
I thought this was the "man" that was on Oprah? "He" never had sex reassignement surgery in the genital area, that's what was said on Oprah.
Its not about what he has in his pants.
He feels like he was born into the wrong body. Cutting off your breasts is a bit drastic for someone who just wants to live as a butch lesbian(which was implied on this thread).
Calling this person a woman, when he clearly has done a lot to be recognized as a man, is insensitive and disturbing to me.
It is amazing that people can be so supportive of homosexuals but insulting toward transgendered people.
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| Posted 11/13/08 10:54 PM |
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Christine
2nd verse same as the 1st
Member since 5/05 15287 total posts
Name:
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by greeneyes361708
Its not about what he has in his pants.
He feels like he was born into the wrong body. Cutting off your breasts is a bit drastic for someone who just wants to live as a butch lesbian(which was implied on this thread).
Calling this person a woman, when he clearly has done a lot to be recognized as a man, is insensitive and disturbing to me.
It is amazing that people can be so supportive of homosexuals but insulting toward transgendered people.
I completely respect that he feels he was born into the wrong body - I sympathize with it and my heart aches for people that are born with such turmoil. But isn't what Thomas Beatie doing insulting to transgendered people? He was born a woman but feels in his heart and to the core of his inner being that he should have been a man. So he chooses to live his life as a man, oh except he reserves the right to have children.
Message edited 11/14/2008 6:21:25 AM.
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| Posted 11/13/08 11:02 PM |
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Goobster
:)
Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by IrishLass
Posted by Kara
Posted by IrishLass
First, SHE is a woman. Until SHE has the surgery to change HER vagina to a penis, SHE is a woman. SHE can call herself whatever she likes, but she's still a woman.
That is all.
I guess he, the government, and the doctors who performed his sex reassignment surgery all should have checked with LIF first...
I thought this was the "man" that was on Oprah? "He" never had sex reassignement surgery in the genital area, that's what was said on Oprah.
Yes, he did say this on Oprah. He did not have reassignment surgery, just removal of his breasts. From what I recall, I also think he was having a vaginal delivery so he did not have the major sex change part of the surgery.
Message edited 11/14/2008 12:40:41 AM.
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| Posted 11/14/08 12:37 AM |
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GenLCSW
Baby # 3 is here!!!
Member since 7/05 21138 total posts
Name:
Genna
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Re: The pregnant "man"
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| Posted 11/14/08 5:51 AM |
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ExpectingJoy
LIF Adolescent
Member since 5/05 751 total posts
Name:
Cari
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Re: The pregnant "man"
When is the book coming out? LOL.
I don't mind that a man is pregnant but feel that such a loving and tender moment between two people has been beyond exploited and she has played a part in this. Oprah, articles, alerting the media to the fact...
eta: This is probably going to end with a lucrative book deal, made the tv movie, new career for Beatty, etc... and is being tee-ed up to be a sweet money maker for them. It's the American way, I guess.
Message edited 11/14/2008 8:20:58 AM.
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| Posted 11/14/08 8:19 AM |
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Kara
Now Zagat Rated!
Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
Name:
They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by Christine
Posted by greeneyes361708
Its not about what he has in his pants.
He feels like he was born into the wrong body. Cutting off your breasts is a bit drastic for someone who just wants to live as a butch lesbian(which was implied on this thread).
Calling this person a woman, when he clearly has done a lot to be recognized as a man, is insensitive and disturbing to me.
It is amazing that people can be so supportive of homosexuals but insulting toward transgendered people.
I completely respect that he feels he was born into the wrong body - I sympathize with it and my heart aches for people that are born with such turmoil. But isn't what Thomas Beatie doing insulting to transgendered people? He was born a woman but feels in his heart and to the core of his inner being that he should have been a man. So he chooses to live his life as a man, oh except he reserves the right to have children.
No, I don't think it's insulting to transgendered people at all. What I DO think is insulting to transgendered people is someone else definitively telling that person what his or her gender is. Telling a transgendered person who identifies as male "No, you're a woman. I don't caer what you say" is insensitive and insulting. I'm glad many people have never had to struggle with their gender identity. I understand that most of us don't understand what that is like. But none of that gives us the right to be so intolerant and insensitive.
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| Posted 11/14/08 8:52 AM |
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IrishLasss334
I'll be there soon!
Member since 1/08 6549 total posts
Name:
Patty
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by Kara
Posted by Christine
Posted by greeneyes361708
Its not about what he has in his pants.
He feels like he was born into the wrong body. Cutting off your breasts is a bit drastic for someone who just wants to live as a butch lesbian(which was implied on this thread).
Calling this person a woman, when he clearly has done a lot to be recognized as a man, is insensitive and disturbing to me.
It is amazing that people can be so supportive of homosexuals but insulting toward transgendered people.
I completely respect that he feels he was born into the wrong body - I sympathize with it and my heart aches for people that are born with such turmoil. But isn't what Thomas Beatie doing insulting to transgendered people? He was born a woman but feels in his heart and to the core of his inner being that he should have been a man. So he chooses to live his life as a man, oh except he reserves the right to have children.
No, I don't think it's insulting to transgendered people at all. What I DO think is insulting to transgendered people is someone else definitively telling that person what his or her gender is. Telling a transgendered person who identifies as male "No, you're a woman. I don't caer what you say" is insensitive and insulting. I'm glad many people have never had to struggle with their gender identity. I understand that most of us don't understand what that is like. But none of that gives us the right to be so intolerant and insensitive.
I'm sorry, I agree with Christine. Transgender is having the surgery and changing your gender...Thomas has technically not changed his gender, yet,"he" still has a vagina and does not have a penis, so technically he is still a woman. I have family and close friends that have struggled with their sexuality (to be gay, lesbian and bi), I am very sensitive to their feelings. But I think Thomas walking around saying that he is a man having a baby is incorrect, however "he" feels on the inside.
If he was a man putting on a dress, shaving his body hair and even taking estrogen to suppress hair growth etc, he'd still be a transexual, not a transgender, and he'd still be a man.
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| Posted 11/14/08 9:27 AM |
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2BEANS
wow time is going fast.
Member since 9/07 16106 total posts
Name:
Tina
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Regardless of man or woman.. or what ever, they are a person and have ever right to have children. I just feel bad for what the children may have to deal with when growing up. Well i guess his/her dd will now have someone to lean on.
eta: I believe the reason he/she is having the child is b/c his/her wife isnt able to carry children and they wanted a biological child of their own., therefore he/she chose to carry the child.
Message edited 11/14/2008 9:29:51 AM.
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| Posted 11/14/08 9:27 AM |
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MeNBobs
*****
Member since 4/07 3765 total posts
Name:
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Re: The pregnant "man"
What bothers me is the way he is exploiting his children and the fact that he is transgendered. If you want to have a baby that's great stay home, shut up and live your life. Thousands of people have babies everyday. For all I care this guy could give birth to a unicorn. I personally could live without the naked photo shoot of you bathing in People magazine and this goes for all people. I think it's a bit ridiculous to walk around claiming you are a pregnant man. You may LEGALLY be a man, walk like a man and talk like a man but BIOLOGICALLY you were born a woman thus not making you a pregnant man.
This doesn't make me intolerant of transgendered people it makes me intolerant of people that will sell their kids and family life out for a quick buck.
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| Posted 11/14/08 9:29 AM |
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2BEANS
wow time is going fast.
Member since 9/07 16106 total posts
Name:
Tina
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by MeNBobs
What bothers me is the way he is exploiting his children and the fact that he is transgendered. If you want to have a baby that's great stay home, shut up and live your life. Thousands of people have babies everyday. For all I care this guy could give birth to a unicorn. I personally could live without the naked photo shoot of you bathing in People magazine and this goes for all people. I think it's a bit ridiculous to walk around claiming you are a pregnant man. You may LEGALLY be a man, walk like a man and talk like a man but BIOLOGICALLY you were born a woman thus not making you a pregnant man.
This doesn't make me intolerant of transgendered people it makes me intolerant of people that will sell their kids and family life out for a quick buck.
I totally agree with you. This is the problem i have with it too.. but so many celebrities i feel do the same..
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| Posted 11/14/08 9:30 AM |
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Celt
~~~~~~~~~~
Member since 4/08 7758 total posts
Name:
colette
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by MeNBobs
What bothers me is the way he is exploiting his children and the fact that he is transgendered. If you want to have a baby that's great stay home, shut up and live your life. Thousands of people have babies everyday. For all I care this guy could give birth to a unicorn. I personally could live without the naked photo shoot of you bathing in People magazine and this goes for all people. I think it's a bit ridiculous to walk around claiming you are a pregnant man. You may LEGALLY be a man, walk like a man and talk like a man but BIOLOGICALLY you were born a woman thus not making you a pregnant man.
This doesn't make me intolerant of transgendered people it makes me intolerant of people that will sell their kids and family life out for a quick buck.
Bravo!!!!Exactly my point...
And now I'm going to grow a beard and show up at work next month and tell them I'm a man so I will get paid more. 
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| Posted 11/14/08 9:36 AM |
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Kidsaplenty
Sister love
Member since 2/06 5971 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by IrishLass
I'm sorry, I agree with Christine. Transgender is having the surgery and changing your gender...Thomas has technically not changed his gender, yet,"he" still has a vagina and does not have a penis, so technically he is still a woman. I have family and close friends that have struggled with their sexuality (to be gay, lesbian and bi), I am very sensitive to their feelings. But I think Thomas walking around saying that he is a man having a baby is incorrect, however "he" feels on the inside.
If he was a man putting on a dress, shaving his body hair and even taking estrogen to suppress hair growth etc, he'd still be a transexual, not a transgender, and he'd still be a man.
He is still transgendered without the surgery. Being transgendered is not all about the sexual organs, it is the feeling that you were born into the wrong body. I can't imagine how it would feel to never be comfortable in my own skin.
The sex reassignment surgery is very expensive and painful. It usually involves 10+ years in therapy before you can even get it done. Thomas Beattie has been injecting hormones into his body, had his breasts cut off as well.
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| Posted 11/14/08 9:37 AM |
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Kara
Now Zagat Rated!
Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
Name:
They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by MeNBobs
This doesn't make me intolerant of transgendered people it makes me intolerant of people that will sell their kids and family life out for a quick buck.
I think I've made it perfectly clear that I do not agree with the way he is using the media to exploit the situation.
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| Posted 11/14/08 9:40 AM |
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2BEANS
wow time is going fast.
Member since 9/07 16106 total posts
Name:
Tina
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by colette
And now I'm going to grow a beard and show up at work next month and tell them I'm a man so I will get paid more.
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| Posted 11/14/08 9:41 AM |
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Kara
Now Zagat Rated!
Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
Name:
They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by BabySammie
Posted by colette
And now I'm going to grow a beard and show up at work next month and tell them I'm a man so I will get paid more.
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| Posted 11/14/08 9:42 AM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: The pregnant "man"
whatever happened to "live and let live"
this man is not affecting your life, save your judgements
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| Posted 11/14/08 9:46 AM |
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Kara
Now Zagat Rated!
Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
Name:
They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by IrishLass
If he was a man putting on a dress, shaving his body hair and even taking estrogen to suppress hair growth etc, he'd still be a transexual, not a transgender, and he'd still be a man.
Transgender:
Transgender is generally used as a catch-all umbrella term for a variety of individuals, behaviours, and groups centered around the full or partial reversal of gender roles ;
"Transgender" is also used to describe behaviour or feelings that cannot be categorized into these older sub-categories, for example, people living in a gender role that is different from the one they were assigned at birth, but who do not wish to undergo any or all of the available medical options, or people who do not wish to identify themselves as "transsexuals", "men" or "women", and consider that they fall between genders, or transcend gender.
Transsexual
Transsexual people are people who desire to have, or have achieved, a different physical sex from that which they were assigned at birth. One typical (though oversimplified) explanation is of a "woman trapped in a man's body" or vice versa; many transsexual women state that they were in fact always of the female gender, but were assigned the male gender as a child on the basis of their genitals, and having realized that they are female, wish to change their bodies to match; transmen, naturally, feel exactly the opposite.
The process of physical transition for transsexuals usually includes hormone replacement therapy and may include sexual reassignment surgery (a.k.a. gender reassignment surgery). For transwomen, electrolysis for hair removal is often required, while many transmen have breast-reduction surgery as early as possible, whether accompanied by genital surgery or not.
Source
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| Posted 11/14/08 9:55 AM |
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IrishLasss334
I'll be there soon!
Member since 1/08 6549 total posts
Name:
Patty
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Re: The pregnant "man"
I do not think Thomas is physically a man until sex reassignment surgery is done. He can feel about his gender however he wants, if he is a man trapped in a woman's body, whatever, I really dont' care, makes no difference to me.
But I feel is not incorrect for Thomas to be saying he is a man who had a baby when clearly he is not. At this time in modern medical science, men cannot bear children, only if you have uterus can you bear children. You don't even need fallopian tubes and ovaries, that can all be by-passed, but you still need the uterus. Last I checked, A MAN doesn't come with one of those. He took fertility drugs and had IUI, the same as a woman to get pregnant.
We can agree to disagree about the definitions of what "he" really is.
Message edited 11/14/2008 10:16:57 AM.
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| Posted 11/14/08 10:15 AM |
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Celt
~~~~~~~~~~
Member since 4/08 7758 total posts
Name:
colette
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Exactly. I think everyone here is taking exception to the terminology, used for the solepurpose of attracting the media's attention.
"Jo jo the dog-faced boy" was a boy, not a dog. But "boy with hairy face" wouldn't have sold a lot of circus tickets, KWIM?
Similarly, "Pregnant woman with a beard who had a mastectomy", while truthful, won't sell a lot of books.
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| Posted 11/14/08 10:23 AM |
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IrishLasss334
I'll be there soon!
Member since 1/08 6549 total posts
Name:
Patty
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by colette
Exactly. I think everyone here is taking exception to the terminology, used for the solepurpose of attracting the media's attention.
"Jo jo the dog-faced boy" was a boy, not a dog. But "boy with hairy face" wouldn't have sold a lot of circus tickets, KWIM?
Similarly, "Pregnant woman with a beard who had a mastectomy", while truthful, won't sell a lot of books.
Or get you on Oprah or on the cover of people magazine.
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| Posted 11/14/08 10:27 AM |
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timanda
Puppy Love
Member since 6/08 1627 total posts
Name:
Amanda
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by Kara
"Transgender" is also used to describe behaviour or feelings that cannot be categorized into these older sub-categories, for example, people living in a gender role that is different from the one they were assigned at birth, but who do not wish to undergo any or all of the available medical options, or people who do not wish to identify themselves as "transsexuals", "men" or "women", and consider that they fall between genders, or transcend gender.
So according to this definition, he is transgender, because he has not undergone a complete medical procedure and still has female reproductive organs. Except this definition says that a transgender person is living in a gender role that is different from what they were born as. So isn't the process of getting pregnant and giving birth part of the female gender role?
I agree with a prevous poster that if he feels he is a man then he should, i guess, forfeit his right to now experience aspects of living as a female. It isn't fair to flip back and forth when convenient.
I guess I am just trying to understand but it doesn't seem right to me.
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| Posted 11/14/08 11:12 AM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by timanda
It isn't fair to flip back and forth when convenient.
isn't fair to who? Us? Why do any of you care what he calls himself, how many kids he has, whether he still has his female parts? I do not get it.
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| Posted 11/14/08 11:22 AM |
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Christine
2nd verse same as the 1st
Member since 5/05 15287 total posts
Name:
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Re: The pregnant "man"
Posted by Kara
Posted by Christine
Posted by greeneyes361708
Its not about what he has in his pants.
He feels like he was born into the wrong body. Cutting off your breasts is a bit drastic for someone who just wants to live as a butch lesbian(which was implied on this thread).
Calling this person a woman, when he clearly has done a lot to be recognized as a man, is insensitive and disturbing to me.
It is amazing that people can be so supportive of homosexuals but insulting toward transgendered people.
I completely respect that he feels he was born into the wrong body - I sympathize with it and my heart aches for people that are born with such turmoil. But isn't what Thomas Beatie doing insulting to transgendered people? He was born a woman but feels in his heart and to the core of his inner being that he should have been a man. So he chooses to live his life as a man, oh except he reserves the right to have children.
No, I don't think it's insulting to transgendered people at all. What I DO think is insulting to transgendered people is someone else definitively telling that person what his or her gender is. Telling a transgendered person who identifies as male "No, you're a woman. I don't caer what you say" is insensitive and insulting. I'm glad many people have never had to struggle with their gender identity. I understand that most of us don't understand what that is like. But none of that gives us the right to be so intolerant and insensitive.
I don't think I am being intolerant but I simply do not understand why someone that struggles/struggled with gender indenity would straddle the fence and choose to live as both a man and a woman.
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| Posted 11/14/08 11:22 AM |
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