Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Message edited 10/4/2011 10:49:21 PM.

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

I've been following this line of posting and I am going to try and give the voice of the moderate. I'm someone who voted for Obama and is lukewarm on the results (still not sure if I will vote for or against since I'm not so keen on the current contenders and have major issues with their social stances). A few points:

1. $250,000 and class warfare: Everyone wants those above them to pay more. The question of whats fair is key? Obama set $250,000 as the magic number. While no one is struggling at 250k I'd hardly call "rich" in the tri-state area. Folks with a combined income of 250k may have nicer houses and cars, and probably are more stable financially but it's not like they are living some fairy tale lifestyle. Also, I find most folks at that level worked/studied hard to get there.

2. Corporations and tax loopholes: Everyone rails on corporations who pay little to no taxes. However, if we push them to pay more they will just go overseas. There was a nice piece in 60 mins about this recently. Basically US companies set up an "office" in Switzerland to lower their tax rate. Now we could make these companies pay more taxes but they would just leave the country. If anything we may need to lower their taxes to bring them back in. Here's the link: 60 mins piece

3. Greed: Look we live in a capitalist society and unfortunately greed is what drives the system and in the end makes companies profitable. Also, all of us from the blue collar folks to those higher up have some sort of stock/401k/pension that's tied to the success of these big companies and wall street as a whole. When things were good, stocks were booming and our houses were appreciating we loved it. However, now we all are all hating on Wall Street. I do think some better regulation is in order. Unfortunately, while it would have "taught them a lesson" to not bail out the banks there was the risk of the whole thing crashing and our 401ks being worse than they are now.

4. If we make a few hundred thousand someone else makes a few million: I'll be honest it really doesn't bother me that other folks make these million dollar salaries. If someone makes me plus few hundred thousand others a few hundred grand, why shouldn't they get a piece. On the flip side if that fund manager screws up they get fired. No risk no reward.

5. The poor and middle class:
I think there are many folks who are struggling out there and I worry about them. However, there are some who are milking the system and I think we need to crack down on them. I see patients all the time on medicaid with iphones, air jordans, and now even ipads. I'm sorry, but if I'm paying your healthcare bills no ipad for you. Also, I think the poor in other countries have it a lot worse than the poor in America. I've never admitted a child to the hospital who was malnourished from not eating. I think the solution to poverty needs to be more systemic. Not handouts, but things like job training to get someone to better their situation rather than giving them money to keep them where they are.

6. What's a fair share?:
Personally, they can raise my taxes. I'll throw in an extra $1000 a year if you can devise a health care plan that provides decent health care for everyone. (Never will happen in the current climate). However, the folks who want to raise taxes want to raise taxes to give stuff to people. If we're in a budget shortfall and everything is cut, fine raise my taxes $1000, but you know what raise the guy who makes 1/2 much as me $500 and raise it on the guy is just barely paying taxes 1 dollar. Also, don't raise my taxes by $1000 only to piss it away.

Personally I'm fed up with both sides of the aisle. I think we need folks who are willing to too look objectively at a situation and take the path that is the most sensible. i.e. not going on emotions and going by what your party line says to do.

Message edited 10/5/2011 7:32:10 AM.

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

"Given the facts of the income distribution, the trends in real middle-class incomes and poverty, the failure of policy to do much to change these trends, the government bailouts of the only class that's benefited from the recovery so far, the absence of clear punishment/accountability for the financial and political institutions that helped inflate the debt bubble that continues to squeeze economies across the globe, and the dysfunctionality of the current political system (they're arguing more about whether they can keep the lights on than whether they can help solve the economic problems), the more interesting question is what took so long for such protests to show up?" This quote is from Jarted Bernstein, senior fellow, Center on budget and policy priorities.

Writer Andrew Sorkin said: .. the demonstrators are seeking accountability for Wall Street and corporate America for the financial crisis and the growing economic inequality gap.

I can't write as well, but I do agree with both of them.

Also, as I understand it, the proposed higher tax on incomes of $250,000 and more would be factored on incomes after allowable deductions, not gross income.

I would like to see people paying the same tax rate in proportion to their income. I have no problem with high earners, as long as they pay their fair share. But, that's not happening now.

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Posted by HappyWife515

Posted by Ophelia

we do not have nor will we ever have a purely capitalist system. IT DOES NOT WORK. that is why we don't have it.

I feel like people don't bother trying to absorb things. I feel like I am reading some politico rhetoric.

PAY SOME ******* TAXES.

it does not get any simpler.

I don't care about the dude making 1million dollars on WALL STREET

when I say Wall Street, I am not talking about the people who work there. I am talking about the institution. the companies that we buy in to that DON'T PAY TAXES,

DO NOT PAY TAXES. do you understand that? they make BILLIONS of dollars and DO NOT PAY TAXES.

even your average hollywood movie star pays taxes on his/her absurdly large pay check (or like Wesley Snipes, you spend time in jail)

we own stock in companies that are shipping jobs overseas...headless of the financial collapse that will signal here...so that they're dividends will be higher.

Wall Street and it's fake numbers and inflated bull **** has become more important that JOBS.

it is all cyclical.

I work for Coke. I make the soda. someone buys the soda with money earned FROM ANOTHER JOB, and the money goes to Coke to pay the salary, and Coke pays taxes to the govt to support our social systems.

if person B can't buy coke b/c they can't afford it, I will lose my job. and it coke doesn't pay taxes on its earnings, our social and political system turns to ****.

WE NEED JOBS. we don't NEED STOCKS.

JOBS.
JOBS.
JOBS.

if more corporations would stop worrying about what their stock holders earned and their margins and dividends, maybe they'd stick around to pay and AMERICAN WORKER to do some WORK.

we are so off balance it is not even funny. we have NO INDUSTRY. computers. GONE. customer service. GONE. fabrics. GONE. manufacturing. GONE. even half of our FARMING is gone. more than half. even our PORT SECURITY is outsourced.
WHAT
THE
EFF??????????????????????????

what do we have left.

a bunch of people sitting in offices selling stock in something that we can't afford to buy anymore.

it's over jonny. over. these corporations are LYING through their teeth. their earnings are out of control yet they can't earn less and do it here???? WHY? it's ********. we are going down.

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

I'm a socialist, but a realist. I would love to see corporations to pay their fair share, but they will leave completely. I'm OK with that, if we can all hunker down and save a bit for the bigger economic crisis that will follow. I think most would not be OK with it, so we will continue to bend over for the corporations. Gordon Gecko summed it up: Greed is good. They all an't be like Buffet or Carnegie - they are a special form of star dust.

But since I am a socialist, raise my taxes (not too much right away please) and I will be happy to shoulder some of the weight to help my fellow man/woman/child.

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

businesses are already GONE.

what industry do we have left here?

why do you think our unemployment is hovering around 10% with more to follow.

and I hate to break it to you, but very very soon if this crisis keeps up, we are going to fall behind China, India, and all of the other countries that now have OUR JOBS b/c they will be able to buy the way we once did.'

we no longer have the purcahsing power. right now we are like a once beautiful woman approaching middle age still insisting she's the hottest **** in the room, but a few others beauties are taking her place right under her vain nose.

it's utterly scary. any which way you look at it. we can sit here and say eff the poor, squeeze the middle class but keep the status quo, allowing more and more of us to slip into the realm of poverty as long as "it's not me or mine" OR we can ALL take up some of this burden

it's not about democrat, republican, socialism capitalism...it's not ism at all.

it's people. our society, crumbling over somethign that is so historically repetitive it is unfathomable. MONEY. the rich have always and will always have all the power.

and you, making 500k. you are not rich. and I am not talking about you.

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Message edited 10/5/2011 10:14:31 AM.

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

So when Ronald Reagan basically said the same thing Obama/Buffet was saying was he a hypocrite as well? A PP linked a video that showed Obama practically mirroring what Obama and Buffet had to say over 25 years ago, I don't see anyone attacking him?


Just because Buffet does something I don't agree with doesn't make what he is saying any less valid.

Message edited 10/5/2011 10:18:58 AM.

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Posted by mommy2Alex

Posted by Ophelia

Posted by mommy2Alex

Posted by Erica

They all an't be like Buffet or Carnegie - they are a special form of star dust.

Warren Buffet is a hypocrtie! His firm owes back taxes since 2002.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/29/warren-buffett-taxes-berkshire-hathaway_n_941099.html

who cares if he is a hypocrite?????? what difference does it make.

what we should be doing is making sure HE AND EVERYONE ELSE PAYS!

Well when the President is quoting Warren Buffet and praising him because Buffet thinks that the rich should pay more and Buffet is scamming the system that leaves me The pp poster was basically praising him as well. To me that is like the parent telling their kids not to drink and drive yet they drive around with the kids in the car after drinking.

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

I just feel like .. I don't know.. everyone is saying ALMOST the same thing but nobody is listening.

My sister works for a company. She is a manager. She busts her azz and does well. Her company had a management meeting yesterday wherein they handed down some pretty amazing demands to their management team including that they now must give up certain perks and must work more hours. In short more work for less pay. When they kind of grumbled they were told stories about how certain people gave the company a difficult time and found themselves working further from where they lived, etc.. They ended the meeting with "You should all be thankful you have a job at all."

This is the mentality of a LOT of companies and larger corporations. NOT ALL of them.. but a lot. I was on the management team at my last job. Our CEO told me numerous times that EVERY person in the company was overpaid. EVERY SINGLE PERSON. Except - of course - his own BMW driving, International trip taking, lobster eating self. He has every person there doing more than their own job because he knows they won't quit/can't quit because the job market is so horrendous. He'd put numbers on the board to show the company how we were doing - and I knew they were lies because I got the residual reports. I couldn't say anything - but it was a sick set up. I can name at least 4 people who are still there who are ACTIVELY seeking other jobs because they hate it so much.

I went to an Open School Night for my nephew. They had 35 kids per class. That's insane. These teachers are now asked to teach over 30 kids per class, prep them for state exams and do it well all for the same salary they had when the classrooms were a more acceptable size. And God help anyone who complains because you should be LUCKY to have a job. And they are. But they are suffering doing that job.

I don't care who is to blame. I don't think the government is lily white and I sure as hell don't want them in charge of private finance - I mean they've got a multi trillion dollar debt.. would you hire an investment broker who was on the verge of bankrupting his formerly wealthy client? Hell No!

But reform is needed. Relief is needed. And it's needed FAST.

I feel like some people are saying "NO! Don't take money from large corporations and wealthy individuals! We need them!"

And yeah - we do! But not if they are playing for the other team. We need them on OUR side. How do we get them to contribute without making them take their ball and go home?

Seriously, if we are so against making them pay a FAIR amount of tax.. what else can we do?

Message edited 10/5/2011 11:24:37 AM.

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Here is the actual list of demands...

http://occupywallst.org/forum/proposed-list-of-demands-for-occupy-wall-st-moveme/

Now I think they're more ridiculous than ever.

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Message edited 10/5/2011 11:54:45 PM.

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

I see a lot of posters invoking the whole "they work hard for the money," "capitalism is awesome and that's why we're the greatest nation in the work" argument.

Fact: The CEOs on average (within the S&P 500) made 319 times the average worker in their companies in 2008 versus 71 times in 1989.

Fact: The top-earning 1% owns as much wealth as the bottom 90%. During the years of the Bush tax breaks, which were extended under Obama in exchange for an extension of unemployment benefits, the pie shifted significantly.

They are unorganized and many of you are probably right that a lot of the original crowd down there was just protesting to protest. But this is picking up momentum--springing up in other cities all over the country, luring in organized groups with more clearly articulated goals--because the facts I listed above are a very real problem for 99% of the population.

Can we acknowledge that? That top executives should not receive obscene raises and bonuses while everyone else takes pay cuts to save jobs, sustains huge increases in benefits contributions, or worse, loses a home because of unemployment, or has to now do the work of 3 people for the same salary because they took the money those workers used to make and gave it to the boss.

It's absurd. It's unjust. It warrants some noise in the streets.

PS:

Posted by havinababy

Posted by sunnyflies
to call for more corporate regulation. Who knows, maybe it will eventually force Washington into doing something.

OMG I hope not! Has anything they have done so far helped? Please keep the govt out of it-they don't belong on Wall St.

Message edited 10/6/2011 6:20:12 AM.

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Posted by tarabelle99

So when Ronald Reagan basically said the same thing Obama/Buffet was saying was he a hypocrite as well? A PP linked a video that showed Obama practically mirroring what Obama and Buffet had to say over 25 years ago, I don't see anyone attacking him?


Just because Buffet does something I don't agree with doesn't make what he is saying any less valid.

Message edited 10/6/2011 7:18:29 AM.

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Message edited 10/6/2011 7:39:17 AM.

Re: Why are there no posts on anything going on in Wall Street?

Message edited 10/6/2011 7:44:46 AM.