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twiceasnice
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Cpt2007
Posted by twiceasnice
I agree with Danirella that he should have read it. At least gotten downloaded prior to a national press conference on the subject. Also I think that Obama is definitely at fault in this whole process. He was asked during the press conference why he has not played a more active role in the bill when writing it. That bothers me. He campaigned Healthcare for all, his health care (that he got as a senator) is deserved by everyone and he doesn't even partake in the creation of of the bill. He is jst setting timelines and promoting it at all the town hall meetings. I think that sux!
It's called separation of powers. Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. Obama constitutionally cannot play a role in the writing of the bill. He can say what he would like to have in the bill, but he cannot take an active role in forming it, the language, its contents, etc.
When someone campaigns for President, they talk a lot about what they want to see happen, what they believe in, etc. But they only have direct control over a portion of those things. Obama's role in this process is to read what Congress sends him in the form of a bill, and either sign it into law or veto it. It's that simple. He's being Cheerleader in Chief right now on the "principles" of health care for all, but the fact of the matter is that what eventually makes it to his desk on this issue (if anything does) is going to look very different from what is currently being batted about and voted on down Pennsylvania Ave at the Capitol Building.
Thanks, and thanks for the bill process some whatever pages ago, it was very informative. My government class (some 18 years ago) never put it so clearly.
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Posted 7/29/09 3:31 PM  |
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Ophelia
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by twiceasnice
So your summary should be improved because the poor people already have medicaid and the illegals (well some hospitals are shipping them back) , the young people opt out (by choice) and for the families making more then 75,000 well they are up for debate.
my summary doesn't need to be improved...perhaps, as Janice pointed out..just my wit 
i've read the fact check reports. I understand them well. your summary of what fact check said also is skewed in your favor and leaves much to be desired.
I find your synopsis slightly sad actually. but I think that is where the "agree to disagree" thing comes itn.
it said IN the fact check info that those over 75,000 MAY NOT have access to private insurance. and they certainly don't to Medicaid.
and a "family" making 75,000 is not exactly rolling in it, anyway.
but again, here is where we have a fundamental difference of opinion. so *le sigh* I shall bow out.
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:35 PM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
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Susan
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by seaside
Posted by mrsej
Posted by Janice
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by anonttcer
I feel like this is being forced upon us too..,. how is this democracy? (that is what scares me most- the govt telling us what to do like this.)
Will we have any choice?
I have a job- my husband has a job- we get top notch health care and we are WILLING AND ABLE to pay for it.
Why should sub par healthcare be forced on us?????
THANK YOU!!!
all we hear about is the 46 million who are not insured
what about the 250 million that ARE??? MANY of us are VERY happy with what we have right now and DO NOT WANT A CHANGE!!!!!
who are you people?
46 million. are willing to pay. deserve the right to healthcare. are you seriously going to deny people, your fellow Americans the right?
One tv show did a great breakdown on the 47 million uninsured americans - they determined that about 10 million are illegal immigrants; around 14 million are eligible for government health care but don't chose to enroll; about 9 million make over $75, 000/yr, but chose not to get insurance. It was really fascinating. I will try and find an article about it.
Now, see--if that's true, THAT's selfish. Forcing the taxpayers to bear the risk that you'll need medical care because you can't be bothered to part with the $. Especially when any of those people who are making a choice not to be insured have the $$ to spend on cigarettes, alcohol, luxury items, etc. That is about as selfish as it gets.
We already pay for it now.
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:36 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Blu-ize
Posted by seaside
Now, see--if that's true, THAT's selfish. Forcing the taxpayers to bear the risk that you'll need medical care because you can't be bothered to part with the $. Especially when any of those people who are making a choice not to be insured have the $$ to spend on cigarettes, alcohol, luxury items, etc. That is about as selfish as it gets.
We already pay for it now.
please see the factcheck info that twiceasnice posted on the page before this one.
it's very informative and may shed some light.
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:40 PM |
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twiceasnice
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Member since 2/08 1126 total posts
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by twiceasnice
So your summary should be improved because the poor people already have medicaid and the illegals (well some hospitals are shipping them back) , the young people opt out (by choice) and for the families making more then 75,000 well they are up for debate.
my summary doesn't need to be improved...perhaps, as Janice pointed out..just my wit
i've read the fact check reports. I understand them well. your summary of what fact check said also is skewed in your favor and leaves much to be desired.
I find your synopsis slightly sad actually. but I think that is where the "agree to disagree" thing comes itn.
it said IN the fact check info that those over 75,000 MAY NOT have access to private insurance. and they certainly don't to Medicaid.
and a "family" making 75,000 is not exactly rolling in it, anyway.
but again, here is where we have a fundamental difference of opinion. so *le sigh* I shall bow out.
LOL, I just cut and paste the summary from Fact check. The numbers are interesting no matter how you look at it because its not like there are 45 million people in desperate need of care.
The "family" subject is debatable. Thats a high income in many states beside NY and CA. Thats the target of uninsured that I would think should be the ones that "need" the care. They are(most likely) not choosing to go w/o care but they cannot afford it at an extra 1000/month. These are the people that need help.
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:43 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by twiceasnice
LOL, I just cut and paste the summary from Fact check. The numbers are interesting no matter how you look at it because its not like there are 45 million people in desperate need of care.
The "family" subject is debatable. Thats a high income in many states beside NY and CA. Thats the target of uninsured that I would think should be the ones that "need" the care. They are(most likely) not choosing to go w/o care but they cannot afford it at an extra 1000/month. These are the people that need help.
I agree with you, especially the last part. although I am still not sure that 75k for a family of...what is the nuclear family...4.1 or something...has an extra 1k floating around. we are a family of 2 with twice that and it would be tough!!!
that is the fundamental problem.
yes, there IS healthcare...but individual plans are exhorbitantly expensive. that is why I was so hopeful about the plan being more like opening up the plans/groups of the FEHBP to those that don't have the benefit of a large group insurance discount (small businesses, free lances, self employed, unemployed, COBRA etc) they'd have the same choice of insurance that I do, but would pay the reduced rate that I pay (I think I said my plan, a great plan with GHI was about $600 a month premium for the family plan. it's pricey, but still less than 1k and there are cheaper option (HMO vs. PPO etc)
when you factor that in with everything else we pay today (especially families...home payment, child care expenses, rising cost of fuel and utilities, commuting costs etc) it ADDS up. and if you are young and relatively healthy, if you have to cut something out, it makes sense to have that be health care rather than rent.
and then you walk outside and get hit by a bus   (God forbid...just trying to illustrate...best laid plans and you never know)
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:52 PM |
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DaniJude
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Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
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Danielle
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
He said he wanted to make clear that all the people out there with misinformation on his plan have the correct information.
He said a lot is being talked about and people are being given wrong information and are scared.
He said if you are happy with your health plan you WILL NOT have to change. If you are happy with your DR. you WILL NOT have to change.
I believe him.
You bring up a lot of good points here. At this point, for people, I don't think it is even about the bill... eff the bill that's going to get changed 100 times. It is about what he wants to see done, what he is saying is going to happen, and if people choose to believe him or not.
I am not buying what he is saying. I don't believe him. It is my opinion and I hope to God that, if this goes through, I am proven wrong. I think it is going to be the same Universal Nightmare that my mom's cousin tells us about on the phone all the time (he and his partner live in Canada).
This is my point of view, these are my feelings - and I respect those who choose to give him the benefit of the doubt. I believe what I am hearing and seeing elsewhere.
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:55 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
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That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by cjik
Tell this to the unemployed, or to people like DH and myself who both have pre-existing conditions. If DH changes jobs, we lose our coverage, which pretty well means he cannot change jobs. We also need to keep our fingers crossed that he doesn't lose his job, or his employer doesn't change coverage in which case, we could be dropped. So changing your job is not always an option.
Why can't he change jobs? Pre-existing conditions should be covered under job private insurance as long as you had no lapse in coverage.
My friend is a diabetic. She has changed jobs plenty of times in the past few years. Why wouldn't she be covered?
What pre-existing condition isn't covered if you change jobs? I have never heard of this.
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:57 PM |
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seaside
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Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Blu-ize
Posted by seaside
Posted by mrsej
Posted by Janice
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by anonttcer
I feel like this is being forced upon us too..,. how is this democracy? (that is what scares me most- the govt telling us what to do like this.)
Will we have any choice?
I have a job- my husband has a job- we get top notch health care and we are WILLING AND ABLE to pay for it.
Why should sub par healthcare be forced on us?????
THANK YOU!!!
all we hear about is the 46 million who are not insured
what about the 250 million that ARE??? MANY of us are VERY happy with what we have right now and DO NOT WANT A CHANGE!!!!!
who are you people?
46 million. are willing to pay. deserve the right to healthcare. are you seriously going to deny people, your fellow Americans the right?
One tv show did a great breakdown on the 47 million uninsured americans - they determined that about 10 million are illegal immigrants; around 14 million are eligible for government health care but don't chose to enroll; about 9 million make over $75, 000/yr, but chose not to get insurance. It was really fascinating. I will try and find an article about it.
Now, see--if that's true, THAT's selfish. Forcing the taxpayers to bear the risk that you'll need medical care because you can't be bothered to part with the $. Especially when any of those people who are making a choice not to be insured have the $$ to spend on cigarettes, alcohol, luxury items, etc. That is about as selfish as it gets.
We already pay for it now.
OH 100% true. My comment is just that it's selfish. Whatever the new plan is, it's got to ensure that people are forced into the same kind of responsibility and accountability that only some have right now. The factcheck info backs this up entirely. Those who bank on and exploit everyone else's good will need to be disincentivized.
I remain appalled the widespread confusion surrounding this and how the government can tout it without explaining it.
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:58 PM |
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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
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Melissa
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Where do people get the idea that 75k is "wealthy" I posted this on another thread. Once taxes are taken out, 401K, etc. Take home is about 3k a month. Add in rent/mortgage, insurance, car payments, food and household bills-electric, water etc-there is nothing left for health insurance-especially not at the exorbitant rates these policies are sold at. I don't understand why people don't see this
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| Posted 7/29/09 4:02 PM |
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mrsej
The cutest!
Member since 1/07 2495 total posts
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Mommy
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by ave1024
Posted by cjik
Tell this to the unemployed, or to people like DH and myself who both have pre-existing conditions. If DH changes jobs, we lose our coverage, which pretty well means he cannot change jobs. We also need to keep our fingers crossed that he doesn't lose his job, or his employer doesn't change coverage in which case, we could be dropped. So changing your job is not always an option.
Why can't he change jobs? Pre-existing conditions should be covered under job private insurance as long as you had no lapse in coverage.
My friend is a diabetic. She has changed jobs plenty of times in the past few years. Why wouldn't she be covered?
What pre-existing condition isn't covered if you change jobs? I have never heard of this.
That is strange - i am diabetic and changed jobs 3 times and never have been denied - i am sure they would love to deny me! I think if you don't sign up with the insurance within a certain time of being hired, you can be denied.
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| Posted 7/29/09 4:03 PM |
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mrsej
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by DRMom
Where do people get the idea that 75k is "wealthy" I posted this on another thread. Once taxes are taken out, 401K, etc. Take home is about 3k a month. Add in rent/mortgage, insurance, car payments, food and household bills-electric, water etc-there is nothing left for health insurance-especially not at the exorbitant rates these policies are sold at. I don't understand why people don't see this
It depends where you live - $75,000 can get you alot in Iowa - a house!
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| Posted 7/29/09 4:04 PM |
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nickipa
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Member since 4/06 5648 total posts
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Nicki
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
My concern is that we are addressing the issue of uninsured by expanding who is covered, but what else are we doing to decrease the cost of health care? Even if there are less uninsured, the cost of health care is still going to go up.
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| Posted 7/29/09 4:06 PM |
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Ophelia
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Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by DRMom
Where do people get the idea that 75k is "wealthy" I posted this on another thread. Once taxes are taken out, 401K, etc. Take home is about 3k a month. Add in rent/mortgage, insurance, car payments, food and household bills-electric, water etc-there is nothing left for health insurance-especially not at the exorbitant rates these policies are sold at. I don't understand why people don't see this
honestly, I think it's b/c we've become basically indoctrinated with the belief that everything is so much cheaper once you get out of the city/off the island.
it's not really though.
home prices are less, yes. and gas is cheaper in certain areas...but not drastically.
food and utilities and all that other good stuff still costs relatively the same.
and salaries are lower. so it evens out.
the only time you make bank is when you find a job out of state with a NYC income. but generally speaking, the expenses for certain things don't change that much.
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| Posted 7/29/09 4:08 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Ophelia
honestly, I think it's b/c we've become basically indoctrinated with the belief that everything is so much cheaper once you get out of the city/off the island.
it's not really though.
home prices are less, yes.
<snip>
And you can stop right there. What is your largest bill every month? Your housing bill (mortgage + taxes).
Housing is SIGNIFICANTLY less outside of Long Island. It's not even close.
While most everyday items are the same price outside of Long Island (like you say), the largest expense doesn't compare.
So when you take a family from Iowa's monthly bills, and then a Long Island family's... you will see a huge difference.
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| Posted 7/29/09 4:18 PM |
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Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
Member since 5/05 27567 total posts
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Janice
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
its a game.
75K is wealthy until we want to tax people who make 150K, then its just above poverty level.
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| Posted 7/29/09 4:24 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
ok, for shits and giggles...lets look at this.
quick search of Iowa MLS for 4 br, 2 bath
quick search of random SUFFOLK town from the MLSLI
I am not saying there are not differences, but they may not be as drastic as we think.
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| Posted 7/29/09 4:34 PM |
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mrsej
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Member since 1/07 2495 total posts
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Janice
its a game.
75K is wealthy until we want to tax people who make 150K, then its just above poverty level.
Go to any cost of living comparison chart - cnn has one. If you make $75,000 in NYC, you can make less than half of that in Iowa to maintain your standard of living. Housing in Iowa costs 75% less than in the ny metro area. Its not a game - just a fact of the country will live in.
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| Posted 7/29/09 4:34 PM |
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twiceasnice
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Member since 2/08 1126 total posts
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by DRMom
Where do people get the idea that 75k is "wealthy" I posted this on another thread. Once taxes are taken out, 401K, etc. Take home is about 3k a month. Add in rent/mortgage, insurance, car payments, food and household bills-electric, water etc-there is nothing left for health insurance-especially not at the exorbitant rates these policies are sold at. I don't understand why people don't see this
You didn't even mention child care...could you imagine!
I think it relates to median income but it varies from state to state. The average US median household income is like 50,000 (not 100%) so if that is 'average' then families w/ 75,000 must be 'above average'.
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| Posted 7/29/09 4:39 PM |
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Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
Member since 5/05 27567 total posts
Name:
Janice
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by mrsej
Posted by Janice
its a game.
75K is wealthy until we want to tax people who make 150K, then its just above poverty level.
Go to any cost of living comparison chart - cnn has one. If you make $75,000 in NYC, you can make less than half of that in Iowa to maintain your standard of living. Housing in Iowa costs 75% less than in the ny metro area. Its not a game - just a fact of the country will live in.
so move. I don't deny it. I am a sahm in NC. We could not swing it in NY. what does that have to do with anything?
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| Posted 7/29/09 4:43 PM |
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twiceasnice
LIF Adult
Member since 2/08 1126 total posts
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by ave1024
Posted by Ophelia
honestly, I think it's b/c we've become basically indoctrinated with the belief that everything is so much cheaper once you get out of the city/off the island.
it's not really though.
home prices are less, yes.
<snip>
And you can stop right there. What is your largest bill every month? Your housing bill (mortgage + taxes).
Housing is SIGNIFICANTLY less outside of Long Island. It's not even close.
While most everyday items are the same price outside of Long Island (like you say), the largest expense doesn't compare.
So when you take a family from Iowa's monthly bills, and then a Long Island family's... you will see a huge difference.
Even if we could find a comparable home in a different state the taxes that we pay here on LI cannot be compared.
We have to make and extra 800-1000/month just for TAXES let alone pay the mortgage.
So here in LI...um taxes or healthcare for the fam?
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| Posted 7/29/09 4:46 PM |
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mrsej
The cutest!
Member since 1/07 2495 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Janice
Posted by mrsej
Posted by Janice
its a game.
75K is wealthy until we want to tax people who make 150K, then its just above poverty level.
Go to any cost of living comparison chart - cnn has one. If you make $75,000 in NYC, you can make less than half of that in Iowa to maintain your standard of living. Housing in Iowa costs 75% less than in the ny metro area. Its not a game - just a fact of the country will live in.
so move. I don't deny it. I am a sahm in NC. We could not swing it in NY. what does that have to do with anything?
Wow!! I am not complaining - just pointing out something that seems obvious - someone said $75,000 is not a lot of money - someone said it depends on where you live - then I talked about the comparison chart - I am fine where I live - it is expensive, but that is life in ny - take it down a notch!
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| Posted 7/29/09 4:50 PM |
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Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
Member since 5/05 27567 total posts
Name:
Janice
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
its down
I don't think it matters where you live.
75K down here, its not where you live its how you live.
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| Posted 7/29/09 4:53 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by twiceasnice
We have to make and extra 800-1000/month just for TAXES let alone pay the mortgage.
So here in LI...um taxes or healthcare for the fam?
I agree with you there. I pay probably around 2-3k less a year in taxes simply by buying in Orange Cty rather than in Nassau or suffolk...but when you factor in the difference in pay, the gulf is not that wide is my only point.
I am of course speaking of people performing roughly the same caliber of job and living a similar lifestyle.
I am not comparing a doctor at Iowa General and a shopkeeper in Ronkonoma..or vice versa.
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| Posted 7/29/09 4:57 PM |
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Jackie24
~We Did it~
Member since 7/06 6718 total posts
Name:
Jackie
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
 This honestly confuses the hell outta me
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| Posted 7/29/09 5:22 PM |
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