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5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
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cjik
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by HeathKernandez
Posted by Janice
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by anonttcer
I feel like this is being forced upon us too..,. how is this democracy? (that is what scares me most- the govt telling us what to do like this.)
Will we have any choice?
I have a job- my husband has a job- we get top notch health care and we are WILLING AND ABLE to pay for it.
Why should sub par healthcare be forced on us?????
THANK YOU!!!
all we hear about is the 46 million who are not insured
what about the 250 million that ARE??? MANY of us are VERY happy with what we have right now and DO NOT WANT A CHANGE!!!!!
who are you people?
46 million. are willing to pay. deserve the right to healthcare. are you seriously going to deny people, your fellow Americans the right?
 thank you. I think the problem here is the majority of us are insured privately... I'm sure we'd be tooting a different tune if we were part of the country WITHOUT insurance...
of COURSE you do not want a CHANGE... that wouldn't benefit YOU, would it? We're a country of selfish people. ME ME ME...
There are serious problems with our health care and it needs to be changed...
Absolutely correct. Too many people are happy with what they have as long as it works for them and don't think about the future.
Long before Obama started this health care reform push, I reading articles or quotes from economists, health care experts, and insurance analysts stating that many in this country are in danger of losing their private insurance in the future if costs continue to rise unchecked. The insurance companies increase their rates, and companies may need to drop insurance. This isn't likely to happen in the next few years, but over time.
So a lot more people would join those 46 million in time.
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Posted 7/29/09 2:02 PM  |
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Ophelia
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Janice
Posted by HeathKernandez
of COURSE you do not want a CHANGE... that wouldn't benefit YOU, would it? We're a country of selfish people. ME ME ME...
...
that's what you do. that's the correct way to live your life. that's what is going to bring you happiness.
you are forgetting ladies, that people who are uninsured are that way b/c they choose to.
they obviously don't work hard enough, aren't smart enough to get a better job, or just have otherwise dropped the ball.
they are just lazy.
not intrepid go getters like you or I.
if they would just DO more, they would have it. b/c it's there for everyone. this is America. it's all there for the taking. no one has to be poor if they don't want to be. there is room at the top (or, the middle  ) for all of us.
and then, we just kick out those pesky immigrants who leach us bone dry and don't contribute ANYTHING to our society.
and there it is...UTOPIA. 
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| Posted 7/29/09 2:05 PM |
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fuego
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Emily
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Janice
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by anonttcer
I feel like this is being forced upon us too..,. how is this democracy? (that is what scares me most- the govt telling us what to do like this.)
Will we have any choice?
I have a job- my husband has a job- we get top notch health care and we are WILLING AND ABLE to pay for it.
Why should sub par healthcare be forced on us?????
THANK YOU!!!
all we hear about is the 46 million who are not insured
what about the 250 million that ARE??? MANY of us are VERY happy with what we have right now and DO NOT WANT A CHANGE!!!!!
who are you people?
46 million. are willing to pay. deserve the right to healthcare. are you seriously going to deny people, your fellow Americans the right?
ITA. Maybe my VA analogy wasn't ideal (I have been to the Northport VA, and everyone I interacted with was professional btw.. but I know the system isn't perfect at all).
I didn't mean to blame people for stressing out about this because it is important, but there seems to be a lot of misinformation out there. Obama may have initiated this reform, but it's being worked out in Congress. If nothing's decided or written yet, how can we judge it?
I know people have anxieties about the government, but there are many many many stories of private insurance making things very difficult for people, myself included. And ultimately, as an American, I believe everyone has a right to health care. So while it's scary, I'd like to see this through...
Just my two cents..
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| Posted 7/29/09 2:07 PM |
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fuego
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Member since 5/08 91 total posts
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Emily
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by HeathKernandez
Posted by Janice
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by anonttcer
I feel like this is being forced upon us too..,. how is this democracy? (that is what scares me most- the govt telling us what to do like this.)
Will we have any choice?
I have a job- my husband has a job- we get top notch health care and we are WILLING AND ABLE to pay for it.
Why should sub par healthcare be forced on us?????
THANK YOU!!!
all we hear about is the 46 million who are not insured
what about the 250 million that ARE??? MANY of us are VERY happy with what we have right now and DO NOT WANT A CHANGE!!!!!
who are you people?
46 million. are willing to pay. deserve the right to healthcare. are you seriously going to deny people, your fellow Americans the right?
thank you. I think the problem here is the majority of us are insured privately... I'm sure we'd be tooting a different tune if we were part of the country WITHOUT insurance...
of COURSE you do not want a CHANGE... that wouldn't benefit YOU, would it? We're a country of selfish people. ME ME ME...
There are serious problems with our health care and it needs to be changed...
ok, I'm sorry.. I'm done..
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| Posted 7/29/09 2:10 PM |
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HeathKernandez
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
 brilliant.
blame blame blame... that's all we do... blame blame ME ME ME ME.
sorry-- my heart is bleeding. brb.
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| Posted 7/29/09 2:13 PM |
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cjik
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
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| Posted 7/29/09 2:19 PM |
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Janice
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Ophelia
and then, we just kick out those pesky immigrants who leach us bone dry and don't contribute ANYTHING to our society.
you are losing your touch.
I like to steal lines from you here and there in real life. To keep DH attracted to me, to get a rise out of my archie bunker like dad....my fave to date, which I believe was deleted since I can't find it:
ophelia:
let's just shoot Mexicans in the streets so that we don't waste our gas transporting them back over.
classic. I believe I used it at Thanksgiving.
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| Posted 7/29/09 2:22 PM |
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Mommy2Boys
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C
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by cjik
Posted by ave1024
Posted by cjik
But it is a problem to have your insurance tied together with your job. And while I am happy with my insurance now, if my husband's employer decided to change plans, we are pretty well stuck with it. That happened to me with one employer in the past.
But you see you do have a choice. You can change jobs.
When I consider working for a company, the pay and quality of life at the job aren't the only two things I consider. The benefits are high on the list as well.
I think this Obama health plan reeks of uglyness.
I sure hope all the people that were pro-Obama in November are happy with their choice.
I saw this coming a mile away.
Many people do not have the luxury of this choice. Tell this to the unemployed, or to people like DH and myself who both have pre-existing conditions. If DH changes jobs, we lose our coverage, which pretty well means he cannot change jobs. We also need to keep our fingers crossed that he doesn't lose his job, or his employer doesn't change coverage in which case, we could be dropped. So changing your job is not always an option.
It almost sounds as if you want no health care reform, or you want Obama to fail. Whether you like the man and his ideas or not, you must see there are serious problems with our healthcare system.
The concern from those of us with good health coverage is that we will have to give up some of our benefits to make things "fair" to others. I dont want to lose any of my benefits nor do I think I should.
If Obama can put together a plan that leaves my family completely unaffected, I'm all for it. Unfortunately I dont see that happening.
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| Posted 7/29/09 2:33 PM |
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Mommy2Boys
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C
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by HeathKernandez
of COURSE you do not want a CHANGE... that wouldn't benefit YOU, would it? We're a country of selfish people. ME ME ME...
When it comes to health and insurance, alot of people think ME ME ME...b/c we know that noone else is going to take care of our families or kids except for us.
Why should anyone have to give up their right to see whatever dr they choose or the right to get top notch medical care god forbid something happens to one of thier kids, spouse, parent?
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| Posted 7/29/09 2:37 PM |
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anonttcer
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by jellybean1420
Posted by HeathKernandez
of COURSE you do not want a CHANGE... that wouldn't benefit YOU, would it? We're a country of selfish people. ME ME ME...
When it comes to health and insurance, alot of people think ME ME ME...b/c we know that noone else is going to take care of our families or kids except for us.
Why should anyone have to give up their right to see whatever dr they choose or the right to get top notch medical care god forbid something happens to one of thier kids, spouse, parent?
Also, I want to point out that I totally feel that people with no coverage, unemployed, underprivledged should get coverage. Absolutely. I do care about my fellow Americans and know that it could very well be me one day who needs assistance.
We should DEFINITELY have health care for all americans who need it. I understand it will mean paying more taxes- so be it.
I think MY issue would be if they implemented some kind of plan where employers no longer felt the incentive to offer private plans and just figured everyone should get on the govt plan.
It's all about choice. As long as we have the right to choose our plan- whether we pay out of pocket, our employers pay, or we go on the govt plan, I am fine with it.
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| Posted 7/29/09 2:42 PM |
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Ophelia
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
jellybean, I think losing benefits is a genuine concern.
the fact is, private insurers have been stripping benefits for years, while raising premiums.
I understand your dh has a great plan...he is NYPD and city, no?
I am not sure if you actually have read the bill (there are a few links to the different versions on this thread if not) but right now there is no reason to believe you will lose your city benefits b/c of the bill.
is it possible that your private insurance carrier can alter your coverage? absolutely.
so I don't see what the real difference is. I am not sure how likely your dh would be to take some others advice to simply "get another job" if that were to happen....it's just not that simple.
I think the most important "choice" we can have is what doctor we see, and what hospital we are treated in.
and since private carriers can opt to drop a doctor or hospital at will, and they only give you a window of opportunity each year to alter your policy (open season) I don't see how we have this extreme amount of choice in the matter as people are making it out to be.
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| Posted 7/29/09 2:44 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Janice
Posted by Ophelia
and then, we just kick out those pesky immigrants who leach us bone dry and don't contribute ANYTHING to our society.
you are losing your touch.
I like to steal lines from you here and there in real life. To keep DH attracted to me, to get a rise out of my archie bunker like dad....my fave to date, which I believe was deleted since I can't find it:
ophelia:
let's just shoot Mexicans in the streets so that we don't waste our gas transporting them back over.
classic. I believe I used it at Thanksgiving.
first of all  
second of all...I blame the babe.
I hope this kid sucks on my teet as much out of the womb as it sucks the juice out of my brain inside.  
so sorry to disappoint
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| Posted 7/29/09 2:46 PM |
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cjik
Welcome 2010!
Member since 2/06 8879 total posts
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by anonttcer
Posted by jellybean1420
Posted by HeathKernandez
of COURSE you do not want a CHANGE... that wouldn't benefit YOU, would it? We're a country of selfish people. ME ME ME...
When it comes to health and insurance, alot of people think ME ME ME...b/c we know that noone else is going to take care of our families or kids except for us.
Why should anyone have to give up their right to see whatever dr they choose or the right to get top notch medical care god forbid something happens to one of thier kids, spouse, parent?
Also, I want to point out that I totally feel that people with no coverage, unemployed, underprivledged should get coverage. Absolutely. I do care about my fellow Americans and know that it could very well be me one day who needs assistance.
We should DEFINITELY have health care for all americans who need it. I understand it will mean paying more taxes- so be it.
I think MY issue would be if they implemented some kind of plan where employers no longer felt the incentive to offer private plans and just figured everyone should get on the govt plan.
It's all about choice. As long as we have the right to choose our plan- whether we pay out of pocket, our employers pay, or we go on the govt plan, I am fine with it.
I think the Finance Committee in Congress is probably taking this under consideration, or I certainly hope they are. If companies drop insurance for too many Americans, it hurts any govt. plan also because far more people than they are anticipating would sign up and the costs could spin out of control. This is a big concern for me as well--not just for my own insurance, but is Congress trying to address this possibility in the plan they are developing?
I would like choice as well, I think most of us would. And the point of this reform was to offer those without insurance an affordable choice. Last time I checked, it would cost my husband and I $800 a month for a basic medical plan. This does not take into account our pre-existing conditions, so I'm not sure if that would be higher now or if we would be covered at all.
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| Posted 7/29/09 2:47 PM |
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DaniJude
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Ophelia
I don't understand what you mean by "handing it down"
he doesn't write the bill and then give it to congress.
congress writes the bills and then it goes to the president to be read/signed off on/vetoed.
it makes sense he hasn't read something that isn't finalized/created yet.
the senate hasn't read it yet, b/c only a small part of the senate is involved in the writing of it. then it goes to the floor and they hash it out (correct me Liz, where I am wrong here)
so don't get to down on him for it. it's totally normal for ANY president.
Sorry for the confusion - I should have written that more clearly - I just figured it was implied. What I meant was: when the bill came over from Congress, before giving it his stamp of approval or signing it or endorsing it, etc etc etc etc - he should have READ IT. And no, I don't buy the, 'oh it's no big deal he didn't read it' - I don't think that's normal - and I don't care if other presidents have done it before or whatever spin people want to put on it -- this is a MAJOR bill that suggests MAJOR changes that will directly affect our lives as we know it. Call me crazy but with this bill, out of all of them, he should have read it.
I don't think we are going to agree on these issues - and I'm not getting into a five page-long debate about everyone and everything else surrounding this. All I was trying to say is that, as the President, he should be reading this stuff before saying he approves what is in it.
Message edited 7/29/2009 2:51:17 PM.
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| Posted 7/29/09 2:50 PM |
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Ophelia
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Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by Ophelia
I don't understand what you mean by "handing it down"
he doesn't write the bill and then give it to congress.
congress writes the bills and then it goes to the president to be read/signed off on/vetoed.
it makes sense he hasn't read something that isn't finalized/created yet.
the senate hasn't read it yet, b/c only a small part of the senate is involved in the writing of it. then it goes to the floor and they hash it out (correct me Liz, where I am wrong here)
so don't get to down on him for it. it's totally normal for ANY president.
Sorry for the confusion - I should have written that more clearly - I just figured it was implied. What I meant was: when the bill came over from Congress, before giving it his stamp of approval or signing it or endorsing it, etc etc etc etc - he should have READ IT. And no, I don't buy the, 'oh it's no big deal he didn't read it' - I don't think that's normal - and I don't care if other presidents have done it before or whatever spin people want to put on it -- this is a MAJOR bill that suggests MAJOR changes that will directly affect our lives as we know it. Call me crazy but with this bill, out of all of them, he should have read it.
.
it's not written yet. he hasn't signed anything yet.
so what you are saying, while true if he HAD done these things, isn't quite true just yet.
it's not about agreeing on the issue...which coincidentally there are certain aspects we probably DO agree on ( ) it's about simply understanding and putting into it's proper context the way the govt works. the way our govt has worked, writting "life altering" laws for nearly 2 and a half centuries.
you are maligning him without cause...YET. wait until he doesn't read it, then get upset about it.
ETA: and I guess I can feel that he can comment on what he would like to see in the bills, and that he is happy about the efforts to see it through. I don't see anything wrong with that.
most people commenting on this thread haven't read the whole bill either, and it doesn't stop them from commenting (and I actually think it's almost as important for us to read it and understand it as it is for the President)
Message edited 7/29/2009 2:59:30 PM.
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| Posted 7/29/09 2:57 PM |
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twiceasnice
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by Ophelia
I don't understand what you mean by "handing it down"
he doesn't write the bill and then give it to congress.
congress writes the bills and then it goes to the president to be read/signed off on/vetoed.
it makes sense he hasn't read something that isn't finalized/created yet.
the senate hasn't read it yet, b/c only a small part of the senate is involved in the writing of it. then it goes to the floor and they hash it out (correct me Liz, where I am wrong here)
so don't get to down on him for it. it's totally normal for ANY president.
Sorry for the confusion - I should have written that more clearly - I just figured it was implied. What I meant was: when the bill came over from Congress, before giving it his stamp of approval or signing it or endorsing it, etc etc etc etc - he should have READ IT. And no, I don't buy the, 'oh it's no big deal he didn't read it' - I don't think that's normal - and I don't care if other presidents have done it before or whatever spin people want to put on it -- this is a MAJOR bill that suggests MAJOR changes that will directly affect our lives as we know it. Call me crazy but with this bill, out of all of them, he should have read it.
.
it's not written yet. he hasn't signed anything yet.
so what you are saying, while true if he HAD done these things, isn't quite true just yet.
it's not about agreeing on the issue...which coincidentally there are certain aspects we probably DO agree on ( ) it's about simply understanding and putting into it's proper context the way the govt works. the way our govt has worked, writting "life altering" laws for nearly 2 and a half centuries.
you are maligning him without cause...YET. wait until he doesn't read it, then get upset about it.
ETA: and I guess I can feel that he can comment on what he would like to see in the bills, and that he is happy about the efforts to see it through. I don't see anything wrong with that.
most people commenting on this thread haven't read the whole bill either, and it doesn't stop them from commenting (and I actually think it's almost as important for us to read it and understand it as it is for the President)
I agree with Danirella that he should have read it. At least gotten downloaded prior to a national press conference on the subject. Also I think that Obama is definitely at fault in this whole process. He was asked during the press conference why he has not played a more active role in the bill when writing it. That bothers me. He campaigned Healthcare for all, his health care (that he got as a senator) is deserved by everyone and he doesn't even partake in the creation of of the bill. He is jst setting timelines and promoting it at all the town hall meetings. I think that sux!
Message edited 7/29/2009 3:07:54 PM.
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:06 PM |
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mrsej
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Janice
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by anonttcer
I feel like this is being forced upon us too..,. how is this democracy? (that is what scares me most- the govt telling us what to do like this.)
Will we have any choice?
I have a job- my husband has a job- we get top notch health care and we are WILLING AND ABLE to pay for it.
Why should sub par healthcare be forced on us?????
THANK YOU!!!
all we hear about is the 46 million who are not insured
what about the 250 million that ARE??? MANY of us are VERY happy with what we have right now and DO NOT WANT A CHANGE!!!!!
who are you people?
46 million. are willing to pay. deserve the right to healthcare. are you seriously going to deny people, your fellow Americans the right?
One tv show did a great breakdown on the 47 million uninsured americans - they determined that about 10 million are illegal immigrants; around 14 million are eligible for government health care but don't chose to enroll; about 9 million make over $75, 000/yr, but chose not to get insurance. It was really fascinating. I will try and find an article about it.
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:15 PM |
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Cpt2007
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Liz
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by twiceasnice
I agree with Danirella that he should have read it. At least gotten downloaded prior to a national press conference on the subject. Also I think that Obama is definitely at fault in this whole process. He was asked during the press conference why he has not played a more active role in the bill when writing it. That bothers me. He campaigned Healthcare for all, his health care (that he got as a senator) is deserved by everyone and he doesn't even partake in the creation of of the bill. He is jst setting timelines and promoting it at all the town hall meetings. I think that sux!
It's called separation of powers. Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. Obama constitutionally cannot play a role in the writing of the bill. He can say what he would like to have in the bill, but he cannot take an active role in forming it, the language, its contents, etc.
When someone campaigns for President, they talk a lot about what they want to see happen, what they believe in, etc. But they only have direct control over a portion of those things. Obama's role in this process is to read what Congress sends him in the form of a bill, and either sign it into law or veto it. It's that simple. He's being Cheerleader in Chief right now on the "principles" of health care for all, but the fact of the matter is that what eventually makes it to his desk on this issue (if anything does) is going to look very different from what is currently being batted about and voted on down Pennsylvania Ave at the Capitol Building.
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:18 PM |
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seaside
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by mrsej
Posted by Janice
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by anonttcer
I feel like this is being forced upon us too..,. how is this democracy? (that is what scares me most- the govt telling us what to do like this.)
Will we have any choice?
I have a job- my husband has a job- we get top notch health care and we are WILLING AND ABLE to pay for it.
Why should sub par healthcare be forced on us?????
THANK YOU!!!
all we hear about is the 46 million who are not insured
what about the 250 million that ARE??? MANY of us are VERY happy with what we have right now and DO NOT WANT A CHANGE!!!!!
who are you people?
46 million. are willing to pay. deserve the right to healthcare. are you seriously going to deny people, your fellow Americans the right?
One tv show did a great breakdown on the 47 million uninsured americans - they determined that about 10 million are illegal immigrants; around 14 million are eligible for government health care but don't chose to enroll; about 9 million make over $75, 000/yr, but chose not to get insurance. It was really fascinating. I will try and find an article about it.
Now, see--if that's true, THAT's selfish. Forcing the taxpayers to bear the risk that you'll need medical care because you can't be bothered to part with the $. Especially when any of those people who are making a choice not to be insured have the $$ to spend on cigarettes, alcohol, luxury items, etc. That is about as selfish as it gets.
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:20 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Cpt2007
Posted by twiceasnice
I agree with Danirella that he should have read it. At least gotten downloaded prior to a national press conference on the subject. Also I think that Obama is definitely at fault in this whole process. He was asked during the press conference why he has not played a more active role in the bill when writing it. That bothers me. He campaigned Healthcare for all, his health care (that he got as a senator) is deserved by everyone and he doesn't even partake in the creation of of the bill. He is jst setting timelines and promoting it at all the town hall meetings. I think that sux!
It's called separation of powers. Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. Obama constitutionally cannot play a role in the writing of the bill. He can say what he would like to have in the bill, but he cannot take an active role in forming it, the language, its contents, etc.
When someone campaigns for President, they talk a lot about what they want to see happen, what they believe in, etc. But they only have direct control over a portion of those things. Obama's role in this process is to read what Congress sends him in the form of a bill, and either sign it into law or veto it. It's that simple. He's being Cheerleader in Chief right now on the "principles" of health care for all, but the fact of the matter is that what eventually makes it to his desk on this issue (if anything does) is going to look very different from what is currently being batted about and voted on down Pennsylvania Ave at the Capitol Building.
 I heart you Liz.
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:20 PM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
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Dina
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by jellybean1420
Posted by HeathKernandez
of COURSE you do not want a CHANGE... that wouldn't benefit YOU, would it? We're a country of selfish people. ME ME ME...
When it comes to health and insurance, alot of people think ME ME ME...b/c we know that noone else is going to take care of our families or kids except for us.
Why should anyone have to give up their right to see whatever dr they choose or the right to get top notch medical care god forbid something happens to one of thier kids, spouse, parent?
Maybe everyone on this board has the best insurance out there- but I don't really know of anyone that's able to see whatever dr they want whenever they want when they are on insurance. I have a list of doctors that are in network- many doctors that I would love to see don't take my insurance.
Now that my DH has changed jobs, we actually have to go through mountains of paperwork for continuation of care in order for me to stay with my high risk peri throughout the rest of my pregnancy.. and who knows if it will even be approved.
My DH's new plan costs us $500/month and has a $2500 deductible before ANYTHING is covered- even medicine. Do I think this is the norm for all, no... but I do think it's going to go that way if insurance/medical costs keep spiraling out of control
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:24 PM |
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eroxgirl
My Loves
Member since 5/05 15697 total posts
Name:
Rebecca
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Cpt2007
Posted by twiceasnice
I agree with Danirella that he should have read it. At least gotten downloaded prior to a national press conference on the subject. Also I think that Obama is definitely at fault in this whole process. He was asked during the press conference why he has not played a more active role in the bill when writing it. That bothers me. He campaigned Healthcare for all, his health care (that he got as a senator) is deserved by everyone and he doesn't even partake in the creation of of the bill. He is jst setting timelines and promoting it at all the town hall meetings. I think that sux!
It's called separation of powers. Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution. Obama constitutionally cannot play a role in the writing of the bill. He can say what he would like to have in the bill, but he cannot take an active role in forming it, the language, its contents, etc.
When someone campaigns for President, they talk a lot about what they want to see happen, what they believe in, etc. But they only have direct control over a portion of those things. Obama's role in this process is to read what Congress sends him in the form of a bill, and either sign it into law or veto it. It's that simple. He's being Cheerleader in Chief right now on the "principles" of health care for all, but the fact of the matter is that what eventually makes it to his desk on this issue (if anything does) is going to look very different from what is currently being batted about and voted on down Pennsylvania Ave at the Capitol Building.
I started to write something like this but stopped because I knew you'd post something more clear and concise than I was putting together. he's not allowed to!' doesn't quite make the point the same way.
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:25 PM |
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itkocak
Member since 7/07 7639 total posts
Name:
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Message edited 11/29/2011 6:41:19 PM.
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:25 PM |
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twiceasnice
LIF Adult
Member since 2/08 1126 total posts
Name:
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by Ophelia
you are forgetting ladies, that people who are uninsured are that way b/c they choose to.
they obviously don't work hard enough, aren't smart enough to get a better job, or just have otherwise dropped the ball.
they are just lazy.
not intrepid go getters like you or I.
if they would just DO more, they would have it. b/c it's there for everyone. this is America. it's all there for the taking. no one has to be poor if they don't want to be. there is room at the top (or, the middle ) for all of us.
and then, we just kick out those pesky immigrants who leach us bone dry and don't contribute ANYTHING to our society.
and there it is...UTOPIA.
Nice...
Someone on here mentioned fact check:
Summary of The 'Real' Uninsured
1. The Census Bureau estimates that 45.7 million lacked health insurance at any given time in 2007. But fewer lacked coverage for the full year, and more did without for one or more months during the year. All three numbers are likely to be higher for 2008 due to massive job losses.
2. Twenty-six percent of the uninsured are eligible for some form of public coverage but do not make use of it, according to The National Institute for Health Care Management Foundation. This is sometimes, but not always, a matter of choice.
3. Twenty-one percent of the uninsured are immigrants, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. But that figure includes both those who are here legally and those who are not. The number of illegal immigrants who are included in the official statistics is unknown.
4. Twenty percent of the uninsured have family incomes of greater than $75,000 per year, according to the Census Bureau. But this does not necessarily mean they have access to insurance. Even higher-income jobs don't always offer employer-sponsored insurance, and not everyone who wants private insurance is able to get it.
5. Forty percent of the uninsured are young, according to KFF. But speculation that they pass up insurance because of their good health is unjustified. KFF reports that many young people lack insurance because it's not available to them, and people who turn down available insurance tend to be in worse health, not better, according to the Institute of Medicine.
So your summary should be improved because the poor people already have medicaid and the illegals (well some hospitals are shipping them back) , the young people opt out (by choice) and for the families making more then 75,000 well they are up for debate.
I think it is agreed that no one on this thread supports this bill but they do support healthcare reform. I think that the issues of funding health care for the uninsured causes is the real debate because some are willing to give up while others are not.
I personally am not going to willing give up anything. If we are concerned about getting the uninsured affordable coverage it doesn't seem that drastic. People who don't pay into the system get free coverage, the people who do pay taxes but make too much for medicad could still get coverage but maybe 'pay' for it at a low cost. I don't know if the government could manage the income but it could actually work.
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:27 PM |
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mrsej
The cutest!
Member since 1/07 2495 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: 5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform
Posted by twiceasnice
Posted by Ophelia
you are forgetting ladies, that people who are uninsured are that way b/c they choose to.
they obviously don't work hard enough, aren't smart enough to get a better job, or just have otherwise dropped the ball.
they are just lazy.
not intrepid go getters like you or I.
if they would just DO more, they would have it. b/c it's there for everyone. this is America. it's all there for the taking. no one has to be poor if they don't want to be. there is room at the top (or, the middle ) for all of us.
and then, we just kick out those pesky immigrants who leach us bone dry and don't contribute ANYTHING to our society.
and there it is...UTOPIA.
Nice...
Someone on here mentioned fact check:
Summary of The 'Real' Uninsured
1. The Census Bureau estimates that 45.7 million lacked health insurance at any given time in 2007. But fewer lacked coverage for the full year, and more did without for one or more months during the year. All three numbers are likely to be higher for 2008 due to massive job losses.
2. Twenty-six percent of the uninsured are eligible for some form of public coverage but do not make use of it, according to The National Institute for Health Care Management Foundation. This is sometimes, but not always, a matter of choice.
3. Twenty-one percent of the uninsured are immigrants, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. But that figure includes both those who are here legally and those who are not. The number of illegal immigrants who are included in the official statistics is unknown.
4. Twenty percent of the uninsured have family incomes of greater than $75,000 per year, according to the Census Bureau. But this does not necessarily mean they have access to insurance. Even higher-income jobs don't always offer employer-sponsored insurance, and not everyone who wants private insurance is able to get it.
5. Forty percent of the uninsured are young, according to KFF. But speculation that they pass up insurance because of their good health is unjustified. KFF reports that many young people lack insurance because it's not available to them, and people who turn down available insurance tend to be in worse health, not better, according to the Institute of Medicine.
So your summary should be improved because the poor people already have medicaid and the illegals (well some hospitals are shipping them back) , the young people opt out (by choice) and for the families making more then 75,000 well they are up for debate.
I think it is agreed that no one on this thread supports this bill but they do support healthcare reform. I think that the issues of funding health care for the uninsured causes is the real debate because some are willing to give up while others are not.
I personally am not going to willing give up anything. If we are concerned about getting the uninsured affordable coverage it doesn't seem that drastic. People who don't pay into the system get free coverage, the people who do pay taxes but make too much for medicad could still get coverage but maybe 'pay' for it at a low cost. I don't know if the government could manage the income but it could actually work.
THank you - i was trying to find this - i was quoting numbers from memory based on a tv show i saw last night where they discussed these statistics - i think i was pretty close.
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| Posted 7/29/09 3:30 PM |
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