|
"America is not the greatest country in the world"
| Posted By |
Message |
| Pages: << 4 5 6 [7] |
3girls1dog
LIF Adult
Member since 10/09 929 total posts
Name:
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by MrsMick
America IS the greatest country ever.
My Mother came here from Cuba. Cuba HAS socialized medicine. It was horrendous. She lived it. She almost died giving birth to my Sister. Oh and when my Sister was sick as a baby, my mother had to wait three weeks for medicine to come in the mail from a relative in the states. Excellent, right? And the food ration. They would get so much meat and hard boiled eggs in a week. And water and electricity would be shut off at night....
To the previous poster who said why would the immigrants STILL come here if it's NOT the best place in the world. I agree. They don't come here for shits and giggles. They come here for opportunity, education, a better life. I work with many immigrants and they tell me how things are in Greece, Italy, Iran, Ireland, and Armenia. Not good.
And, then I see some crazy horseshit things posted on this thread.... Like someone mentioned that Pakistan has the best programs for women. Really? Did you know they killed a whole bunch of women there recently? Or that they cut their feet if they show past their burkas? Or if a woman does a crime, they bury her in the ground from the neck down and beat her head to death? My best friend is FROM Pakistan. This is what he tells me. I believe him because he's lived there. It's grim and scary. They can keep that shit...
The Media often says how great things are in other countries. Shit, Cuba apparently has the best education system and an abundance in food. BS... I have family there still. They starve on a daily basis. Education is a brainwashing system to train kids to believe in the "Cuban Revolution". Sounds awesome, right?
America is the best. If anyone is unhappy with the way things are, well then go live in Pakistan or Cuba and see how great it is over there.
:
|
Posted 1/12/13 9:27 PM  |
| |
|
Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
LittleBlueBug
Happy Mommy
Member since 9/06 4074 total posts
Name:
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by 3girls1dog
Posted by MrsMick
America IS the greatest country ever.
My Mother came here from Cuba. Cuba HAS socialized medicine. It was horrendous. She lived it. She almost died giving birth to my Sister. Oh and when my Sister was sick as a baby, my mother had to wait three weeks for medicine to come in the mail from a relative in the states. Excellent, right? And the food ration. They would get so much meat and hard boiled eggs in a week. And water and electricity would be shut off at night....
To the previous poster who said why would the immigrants STILL come here if it's NOT the best place in the world. I agree. They don't come here for shits and giggles. They come here for opportunity, education, a better life. I work with many immigrants and they tell me how things are in Greece, Italy, Iran, Ireland, and Armenia. Not good.
And, then I see some crazy horseshit things posted on this thread.... Like someone mentioned that Pakistan has the best programs for women. Really? Did you know they killed a whole bunch of women there recently? Or that they cut their feet if they show past their burkas? Or if a woman does a crime, they bury her in the ground from the neck down and beat her head to death? My best friend is FROM Pakistan. This is what he tells me. I believe him because he's lived there. It's grim and scary. They can keep that shit...
The Media often says how great things are in other countries. Shit, Cuba apparently has the best education system and an abundance in food. BS... I have family there still. They starve on a daily basis. Education is a brainwashing system to train kids to believe in the "Cuban Revolution". Sounds awesome, right?
America is the best. If anyone is unhappy with the way things are, well then go live in Pakistan or Cuba and see how great it is over there.
:
|
| Posted 1/12/13 10:05 PM |
| |
|
DitD
LIF Adolescent
Member since 1/12 650 total posts
Name:
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Normally I don't post on threads like this, but there are few things I need to get out.
First, lets say that socialized medicine is as good as private insurance just for arguments sake in countries like England and Canada. Here is something I think that needs to be brought to peoples attention is the difference in Population. The population of Canada is 35,037,000... The population of England is 53,013,000..The population of the USA is 311,591,917. Our government can't even run the post office efficiently and people think that they can run healthcare for 311,591,917 people???? I think that is wishful thinking, at best. I have been on state run health care in the state of California, which is roughly the amount of Canada and it was horrible. I was a statistic. I had a breast cancer scare and was told I had to wait 3 months for an ultrasound on my breast to confirm what the mass was and the wait was that long for me because I was in my 20's. Simply put, statistics were in my favor. I for one, don't want to be a statistic of 311,591,917 people.
Second, still going by the thought that socialized medicine in other countries is equal to the private insurance of the USA. Look at how people in other countries live. Their tax rates are around 60%, but they also live in very small homes, many do not own cars (possibly one car per family), which from my experience of living in Europe and visiting are very small mini type cars, not Honda Pilots. Heck the family I lived with didn't even have a shower, just a bathtub. People had many family members living in small homes with one bath, and lots of carpooling - watch Househunters Int'l to get an idea of how the rest of the world lives and how "unacceptable this is to us.) There is absolutely nothing wrong with this way of living, but are Americans going to be willing to pay the tax rate and downsize the way they need to in order to live in a socialized society? Will they give up their 4 bedroom, 2.5 bath homes, with two cars, one being a SUV? My guess is no. Socialization sounds fine and dandy until you actually have to pay for it, because nothing is free.
Third, someone pointed out that they don't like that the health care system is for profit in the USA. For profit is what makes our country the leader in medical innovation. You take away the profit, you take away the drive to make new drugs, vaccines, medical equipment etc. This will not only badly hurt America, but other nations rely on our research as well.
My family are immigrants, and they came here for a reason. They could easily go back to their homelands for medical care, but choose to stay here and pay for their private insurance. To me, that speaks volumes.
Message edited 1/12/2013 11:35:00 PM.
|
| Posted 1/12/13 11:24 PM |
| |
|
MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
I really am a bit tired of being "the voice of socialized medicine" or whatever here. I actually was going to stop posting on this thread but I just can not get over all the misconceptions that people are posting as truths.
Listen, you don't like the idea of socialized healthcare? Fine. FIRSTLY, 'Obamacare' is NOT that. That is not what is happening here, so chill.
Every single argument AGAINST socialized medicine made here, in the end, boils down to ONE thing: taxes. People don't want to spend more money. Again, fine, just own it. Don't post supposed truths about how terrible socialized medicine is everywhere without actually knowing how it runs in various places. Don't talk about how terrible the quality of care is or how long the wait times are EVERYWHERE that has socialized medicine. And please, please don't talk about 'how people live' in countries with socialized medicine.
If people here have had experiences with, or know people who have had experiences with, socialized medicine that were negative I'm sorry that happened. However, there are JUST as many people who have had negative experiences with medical care and insurance HERE, too.
Honestly, I'll just clear up a few last things. I lived through it my entire life. My wait times were never horrific. Some procedures take longer to get done than others because things are prioritized. My quality of care was always, always excellent. I had choices, I had access to anything I needed. Doctors are not scraping by in Canada. And finally, I grew up in a country with socialized medicine and I also grew up in an affluent neighborhood, with a pool, a 4500 square foot house, 5 cars in my family and vacations. The way I live HERE with my DH is far below the standard I enjoyed in my socialist country.
And for those who are itching to jump down my throat and say 'so why don't you move home' I will respond with two things: My DH is American and owns a business here. I would move home in a heartbeat if it was feasible for us. Right now it isn't. Second, I don't hate America. I don't agree with the way health care, among other things, is taken care of (or not) in this country. But there are many things I love about living here, too. I am a permanent resident, I pay taxes, and I'll likely become a dual citizen one day. I have a right to criticize and try to affect change. It doesn't make me anti-American.
The end.
|
| Posted 1/12/13 11:38 PM |
| |
|
DitD
LIF Adolescent
Member since 1/12 650 total posts
Name:
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by MandJZ
I really am a bit tired of being "the voice of socialized medicine" or whatever here. I actually was going to stop posting on this thread but I just can not get over all the misconceptions that people are posting as truths.
Listen, you don't like the idea of socialized healthcare? Fine. FIRSTLY, 'Obamacare' is NOT that. That is not what is happening here, so chill.
Every single argument AGAINST socialized medicine made here, in the end, boils down to ONE thing: taxes. People don't want to spend more money. Again, fine, just own it. Don't post supposed truths about how terrible socialized medicine is everywhere without actually knowing how it runs in various places. Don't talk about how terrible the quality of care is or how long the wait times are EVERYWHERE that has socialized medicine. And please, please don't talk about 'how people live' in countries with socialized medicine."
Why can I not post MY personal experience but you can post yours? I will be the first one to own up to the fact that I do not want to pay high taxes, because I will not be able to maintain a lifestyle I am accustomed to. If you look at the the median income in the US, and the cost of living, if you substantially raise taxes people will not be able to support their lives. Simple mathematics. So in order to pay the taxes and receive the benefits, they would have to downsize their lives.
Just using cars for an example, even in countries that have equal or more cars per capita to the US, we still consume more energy then these countries, because we like things big. Can we convince the US population to trade in their SUVS?
Anyway, not looking for an argument, or to jump down anyones throat, but your experiences and stories are just as relevant as anyone else's on this thread.
Message edited 1/12/2013 11:56:13 PM.
|
| Posted 1/12/13 11:55 PM |
| |
|
DitD
LIF Adolescent
Member since 1/12 650 total posts
Name:
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
I don't know why my post won't up in above posters quotes. Sorry if there is confusion, but here is what I wrote:
Why can I not post MY personal experience but you can post yours? I will be the first one to own up to the fact that I do not want to pay high taxes, because I will not be able to maintain a lifestyle I am accustomed to. If you look at the the median income in the US, and the cost of living, if you substantially raise taxes people will not be able to support their lives. Simple mathematics. So in order to pay the taxes and receive the benefits, they would have to downsize their lives.
Just using cars for an example, even in countries that have equal or more cars per capita to the US, we still consume more energy then these countries, because we like things big. Can we convince the US population to trade in their SUVS?
Anyway, not looking for an argument, or to jump down anyones throat, but your experiences and stories are just as relevant as anyone else's on this thread.
|
| Posted 1/12/13 11:57 PM |
| |
|
MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by DitD
I don't know why my post won't up in above posters quotes. Sorry if there is confusion, but here is what I wrote:
Why can I not post MY personal experience but you can post yours? I will be the first one to own up to the fact that I do not want to pay high taxes, because I will not be able to maintain a lifestyle I am accustomed to. If you look at the the median income in the US, and the cost of living, if you substantially raise taxes people will not be able to support their lives. Simple mathematics. So in order to pay the taxes and receive the benefits, they would have to downsize their lives.
Just using cars for an example, even in countries that have equal or more cars per capita to the US, we still consume more energy then these countries, because we like things big. Can we convince the US population to trade in their SUVS?
Anyway, not looking for an argument, or to jump down anyones throat, but your experiences and stories are just as relevant as anyone else's on this thread.
I never said don't post personal experiences. I asked people not to post personal experience as if they are facts. Since my experience and yours are different it is clear that they are not facts.
|
| Posted 1/13/13 12:03 AM |
| |
|
DitD
LIF Adolescent
Member since 1/12 650 total posts
Name:
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by DitD
I don't know why my post won't up in above posters quotes. Sorry if there is confusion, but here is what I wrote:
Why can I not post MY personal experience but you can post yours? I will be the first one to own up to the fact that I do not want to pay high taxes, because I will not be able to maintain a lifestyle I am accustomed to. If you look at the the median income in the US, and the cost of living, if you substantially raise taxes people will not be able to support their lives. Simple mathematics. So in order to pay the taxes and receive the benefits, they would have to downsize their lives.
Just using cars for an example, even in countries that have equal or more cars per capita to the US, we still consume more energy then these countries, because we like things big. Can we convince the US population to trade in their SUVS?
Anyway, not looking for an argument, or to jump down anyones throat, but your experiences and stories are just as relevant as anyone else's on this thread.
I never said don't post personal experiences. I asked people not to post personal experience as if they are facts. Since my experience and yours are different it is clear that they are not facts.
I see what you are saying, but things are smaller in Europe, a lot of it because it is older, and the middle class do not live as the middle class here. Again, I don't see anything wrong with this, but my middle class family in Greece come here and think everyone lives in Mansions. Greece is in a bad way, and I have a cousin with a special needs son who can't get him services because they simply don't exist there.
My family owns a home in Ireland, and if my friends went to it would think it was a shack, but this two bedroom home has raised generations of my family with multiple children in each generation.
My cousins own homes in the same area in Ireland and they are at most 3 bedroom, 1 bath. They aren't poor people, they are considered middle class in their respective country. But it is expensive there, they can't afford to upgrade.
With all this being said, I think we can learn a lot about the lifestyle in other countries. Eating fresher food instead of stocking up our homes with costco sized food containers, riding our bikes and making our environments healthier etc.
I also think the positive stories you and others have told are just as important as the more negative stories. I think both sides open up discussion if everyone can be patient with each other.
|
| Posted 1/13/13 12:17 AM |
| |
|
MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by DitD
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by DitD
I don't know why my post won't up in above posters quotes. Sorry if there is confusion, but here is what I wrote:
Why can I not post MY personal experience but you can post yours? I will be the first one to own up to the fact that I do not want to pay high taxes, because I will not be able to maintain a lifestyle I am accustomed to. If you look at the the median income in the US, and the cost of living, if you substantially raise taxes people will not be able to support their lives. Simple mathematics. So in order to pay the taxes and receive the benefits, they would have to downsize their lives.
Just using cars for an example, even in countries that have equal or more cars per capita to the US, we still consume more energy then these countries, because we like things big. Can we convince the US population to trade in their SUVS?
Anyway, not looking for an argument, or to jump down anyones throat, but your experiences and stories are just as relevant as anyone else's on this thread.
I never said don't post personal experiences. I asked people not to post personal experience as if they are facts. Since my experience and yours are different it is clear that they are not facts.
I see what you are saying, but things are smaller in Europe, a lot of it because it is older, and the middle class do not live as the middle class here. Again, I don't see anything wrong with this, but my middle class family in Greece come here and think everyone lives in Mansions. Greece is in a bad way, and I have a cousin with a special needs son who can't get him services because they simply don't exist there.
My family owns a home in Ireland, and if my friends went to it would think it was a shack, but this two bedroom home has raised generations of my family with multiple children in each generation.
My cousins own homes in the same area in Ireland and they are at most 3 bedroom, 1 bath. They aren't poor people, they are considered middle class in their respective country. But it is expensive there, they can't afford to upgrade.
With all this being said, I think we can learn a lot about the lifestyle in other countries. Eating fresher food instead of stocking up our homes with costco sized food containers, riding our bikes and making our environments healthier etc.
I also think the positive stories you and others have told are just as important as the more negative stories. I think both sides open up discussion if everyone can be patient with each other.
And I see what you are saying, however my comment still stands. You have seen things a certain way in some countries in Europe. This does not mean all people in all countries with universal healthcare live a certain way.
Further, the culture in Europe and their economies are very different from the U.S. While Canada is somewhat different, the consumer culture is far more similar to the U.S. and is likely a much more useful and relevant comparison.
My only point was that people take personal experience and anecdote and post it as truth. I'm not saying my experiences are the truth everywhere for everyone, I AM saying they prove that what others are posting as truth are in fact not truth. They can't be, if my experiences aren't in line with them.
|
| Posted 1/13/13 12:22 AM |
| |
|
DitD
LIF Adolescent
Member since 1/12 650 total posts
Name:
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
I think it is important to understand how Europe operates and lives if we are to discuss socialism as they have been traveling down the path far longer than us here and we are continually seeing more and more of their shortcomings for walking down this road, but if you prefer just to stick to Canada as it is more similar, it is also important to look at a key difference. I also understand the difference between "Obamacare" and socialized medicine, but since this is where the conversation has gone down, I figure I will stick to the topic.
In the US we are facing a point were nearly 50% of Americans are paying no Federal income taxes at all. In the Canada it is only 1/3 of Canadians that will escape paying a national income tax. This is huge a difference in the amount of people paying into the system and the amount that are living off of it. For the US, try getting those that are paying nothing into the system to pay and see how far you get.
Additionally, Canada has a GST (similar to a VAT in European countries) that collects a general sales tax across all citizens - We do not have a federal based sales tax like this, only state level here in the US.
In all, you have a higher overall amount of citizens paying a higher amount of taxes to pay for for these desired services - In the US we have a lower amount of citizens paying a lower amounts of taxes asking the "rich" to pay for everything - As continually push to provide more we will see more and more taxes fall upon our middle class while 50% of our country fails to pay anything to receive the services. This goes back to me saying can we change the way American's think? What they are accustomed to? There is a lot of changing ahead of us if we want to go down the road to socializing benefits.
Also, you say that your experience has been very different then people who have posted more negative stories, but could this be because you come from a more affluent family then the experiences of others? I think it is important to keep classes in mind, and discuss the lives of Middle class to middle class, affluence to affluence, etc.
Message edited 1/13/2013 2:27:25 AM.
|
| Posted 1/13/13 12:50 AM |
| |
|
MrsMick
Baby #2 debuts in March 2016!
Member since 9/09 1977 total posts
Name:
Michele
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by DitD
I think it is important to understand how Europe operates and lives if we are to discuss socialism as they have been traveling down the path far longer than us here and we are continually seeing more and more of their shortcomings for walking down this road, but if you prefer just to stick to Canada as it is more similar, it is also important to look at a key difference. I also understand the difference between "Obamacare" and socialized medicine, but since this is where the conversation has gone down, I figure I will stick to the topic.
In the US we are facing a point were nearly 50% of Americans are paying no Federal income taxes at all. In the Canada it is only 1/3 of Canadians that will escape paying a national income tax. This is huge a difference in the amount of people paying into the system and the amount that are living off of it. For the US, try getting those that are paying nothing into the system to pay and see how far you get.
Additionally, Canada has a GST (similar to a VAT in European countries) that collects a general sales tax across all citizens - We do not have a federal based sales tax like this, only state level here in the US.
In all, you have a higher overall amount of citizens paying a higher amount of taxes to pay for for these desired services - In the US we have a lower amount of citizens paying a lower amounts of taxes asking the "rich" to pay for everything - As continually push to provide more we will see more and more taxes fall upon our middle class while 50% of our country fails to pay anything to receive the services. This goes back to me saying can we change the way American's think? What they are accustomed to? There is a lot of changing ahead of us if we want to go down the road to socializing benefits.
Also, you say that your experience has been very different then people who have posted more negative stories, but could this be because you come from a more affluent family then the experiences of others? I think it is important to keep classes in mind, and discuss the lives of Middle class to middle class, affluence to affluence, etc.
I have to mention something that you said in your last paragraph. My family had a negative experience. And they were affluent. Picture this.... My Grandfather was a top traveling salesman. They had an enormous house with 3 live in maids. My Mother and uncles had nannies that took care of them. They owned a Mercedes. They frequented a country club. Ernest Hemingway used to travel to Cuba frequently as it was once a booming country. I cant compare Cuba to here as far as size and population but people lived well there. There was wealth. So what happened? Rich vs. Poor happened. The governments goal was to make everyone the same. My family lost everything. The government took everything. Seized plantations that belonged to families. Took control of privately owned companies. Socialized medicine. Education changed. People don't get it but if you have only half of the population paying taxes here that means that half is poor. You can get an all out war like what happened down there. Class vs class. That's how it all begin. With an idealist leader to start it all..... Sorry but the same exact thing is slowly happening here whether you like it or not. There is something called the rise and fall of socilaism. It never works for the longterm.
Message edited 1/13/2013 4:23:22 AM.
|
| Posted 1/13/13 4:19 AM |
| |
|
juanvi
Get Out!
Member since 10/06 4463 total posts
Name:
Christina
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
I disagree! To me it is the greatest country in the world. The freedomsnand opportunity are taken for granted. However, the maternity is terrible. In feel moms are treated like cattle,pushing us out of the hospital and back into work. Wen need more Time to mend and take care of our little ones. I also think the younger Americans and I'm including my generation of Americans haveva sense of entitlement that is toxic.
|
| Posted 1/13/13 7:52 AM |
| |
|
LittleBlueBug
Happy Mommy
Member since 9/06 4074 total posts
Name:
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
I dont think just because one person's experiences differ from anothers makes it less truth. Its just different experience. I think it also has something to do with the extent of your experience with something too. There is nothing wrong w/ telling personal stories in my book because if we cant learn from personal experiences with a system, then what can we do? If you see 80% of people having a poor/good experience with something that says a lot, but it does not make those other 20% insignificant...they were different which may be a result of a whole bunch of factors. If the majority of people have negative experiences, that has to account for something though.
I think its important to keep sharing "anecdotes". It will help those with no experience with this type of lifestyle get an idea of what living with something is like. Much more useful than seeing something on paper.
|
| Posted 1/13/13 8:11 AM |
| |
|
LittleBlueBug
Happy Mommy
Member since 9/06 4074 total posts
Name:
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by juanvi
I disagree! To me it is the greatest country in the world. The freedomsnand opportunity are taken for granted. However, the maternity is terrible. In feel moms are treated like cattle,pushing us out of the hospital and back into work. Wen need more Time to mend and take care of our little ones. I also think the younger Americans and I'm including my generation of Americans haveva sense of entitlement that is toxic.
Agreed on all accounts. Yes, the maternity leave if horrible. I dont know if that would ever change as women become more and more prominent in the work force in a world that still favors men. Its sad.
I love the fact that in this country you can choose to be what you want and have that ability to work for wealth without someone just coming and taking away what you work hard for.
If anything is ruining this country its the attitudes of every generation after the ones born after the baby boom. Its the generation of "give me" and this is not a good thing. This is why our parents generation is the last to excede their parents. We really need to change how we think and start taking personal responsibility for the things we want, our sucess and failures, and how we act, and start teaching that to our kids too.
Message edited 1/13/2013 8:24:40 AM.
|
| Posted 1/13/13 8:23 AM |
| |
|
Kitten1929
LIF Adult
Member since 1/13 6040 total posts
Name:
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
This thread proves to me why the US is not the greatest country - too many people with too many opinions who cannot be respectful in their tones and act like they have all the answers. If you've all got it figured out, how's that working out for you?
ETA: The whole "get on a plan and go to Pakistan" is such an old, ugly way of acting like you know best and screw anyone else who differs in their opinion.
I love my country but things NEED to improve. Bottom line.
Starting with some peoples attitudes.
Message edited 1/13/2013 8:58:58 AM.
|
| Posted 1/13/13 8:57 AM |
| |
|
rojerono
Happiest.
Member since 8/06 13803 total posts
Name:
Jeannie
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
This thread irritates me.
It has turned into some sort of bizarre pissing match and it's ridiculous.
A FICTIONAL character says "America is not the greatest country in the world" and goes on to spew a plethora of statistics as his rationale..
What he (and I guess Alan Sorkin) never actually say is "X country is the greatest country in the world".
If we are going by statistics.. Korea is the greatest because their students are better at Math and Science. Or Cuba is greater because their literacy rate is higher. Maybe China is greatest because they lead in exports? China and India also lead in labor force.. does that make them 'greater' than the US?
My point - take it or leave it - is that this character's belief that we are not great is best on constantly evolving statistics that taken one by one don't really 'prove' anything. I mean.. YES we are 7th in literacy.. but that literacy rate is actually 99% the same as the UK, Denmark, Germany, France, Canada and a variety of other countries. Consider that we are THIRD for population though. We have MORE people to educate .. and we are still managing to do it. And of those people that are teachers are trying desperately to educate? MANY are immigrants who don't speak English. Greenland is ranked number 1 in literacy. They have 57,695 people in their country and 100% of those over 15 can read. And they have very little immigration to factor in. Do you know how many people we have in the US? Over 3 million. And 99% of them can read.
I love this country. I love the principles it was founded on. I love the ideals that go along with our fundamental beliefs. I STILL get teary eyed when I hear the opening lines of the Declaration of Independence.
On the other hand.. I'm tired of the conversation surrounding socialized medicine. Most of us don't have enough REAL experience with it to disparage it OR support it. AND.. "Obamacare" is NOT a socialized medical system. It has elements but it's NOT the same thing.
I am not saying you have to love the measure.. I'm not entirely certain HOW I feel about it. But in having NATIONAL PRIDE I am able to respect the office of our PUBLICLY ELECTED officials and I want to give the benefit of the doubt to any plan they set forth and see where it takes us. I can have trepidation and nerves because it is new.. but I'm not willing to say "Oh this country sucks now because of Obamacare."
Are we the greatest country in the world? Yes. But that's by MY measure. I don't fault anyone for feeling differently. I'm sure there are people in N.Korea who will say their country is the greatest in the world - and that is great! I'm sure there are folks in Canada who say Canada is the greatest country in the world.. or in France or Norway or Australia. We all have different measures of greatness. I don't disparage anyone for their feelings - but it DOES make me sad that our own people are so discouraged and disheartened. It does make me sad that we have people born and raised here who can say "We aren't great.. we need to be more like this country or that one". But.. the ability to have those opinions is part of why I love this place so much. So rock on.
Message edited 1/13/2013 9:27:21 AM.
|
| Posted 1/13/13 9:21 AM |
| |
|
BigB
C & J are 10!
Member since 6/05 5914 total posts
Name:
Stacey
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
What a flashback to my college class with the Sweedish exchange student....The United States cannot be compared to other countries for a few reasons:
1. We are not homogenous (We do not have a common language, faith, or nationality) Very few people identify themselves as being American (they still resort to their ethnicity)
2. The immigration to America is the highest of all the countries in the world
3. Over 50% of America's population doesn't pay taxes (either too old, too young, or no SS #)
4. Our population is second to that of China
5. We are an entitled country that feels that we should have material things to equate success (house, car, latest electronics)
As one who works with families who come to America and take, take, take, and then go back to "their" country, it annoys me....just a little....
|
| Posted 1/13/13 9:36 AM |
| |
|
sultana
LIF Adult
Member since 5/09 1455 total posts
Name:
Bridget
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by rojerono
This thread irritates me.
It has turned into some sort of bizarre pissing match and it's ridiculous.
A FICTIONAL character says "America is not the greatest country in the world" and goes on to spew a plethora of statistics as his rationale..
What he (and I guess Alan Sorkin) never actually say is "X country is the greatest country in the world".
If we are going by statistics.. Korea is the greatest because their students are better at Math and Science. Or Cuba is greater because their literacy rate is higher. Maybe China is greatest because they lead in exports? China and India also lead in labor force.. does that make them 'greater' than the US?
My point - take it or leave it - is that this character's belief that we are not great is best on constantly evolving statistics that taken one by one don't really 'prove' anything. I mean.. YES we are 7th in literacy.. but that literacy rate is actually 99% the same as the UK, Denmark, Germany, France, Canada and a variety of other countries. Consider that we are THIRD for population though. We have MORE people to educate .. and we are still managing to do it. And of those people that are teachers are trying desperately to educate? MANY are immigrants who don't speak English. Greenland is ranked number 1 in literacy. They have 57,695 people in their country and 100% of those over 15 can read. And they have very little immigration to factor in. Do you know how many people we have in the US? Over 3 million. And 99% of them can read.
I love this country. I love the principles it was founded on. I love the ideals that go along with our fundamental beliefs. I STILL get teary eyed when I hear the opening lines of the Declaration of Independence.
On the other hand.. I'm tired of the conversation surrounding socialized medicine. Most of us don't have enough REAL experience with it to disparage it OR support it. AND.. "Obamacare" is NOT a socialized medical system. It has elements but it's NOT the same thing.
I am not saying you have to love the measure.. I'm not entirely certain HOW I feel about it. But in having NATIONAL PRIDE I am able to respect the office of our PUBLICLY ELECTED officials and I want to give the benefit of the doubt to any plan they set forth and see where it takes us. I can have trepidation and nerves because it is new.. but I'm not willing to say "Oh this country sucks now because of Obamacare."
Are we the greatest country in the world? Yes. But that's by MY measure. I don't fault anyone for feeling differently. I'm sure there are people in N.Korea who will say their country is the greatest in the world - and that is great! I'm sure there are folks in Canada who say Canada is the greatest country in the world.. or in France or Norway or Australia. We all have different measures of greatness. I don't disparage anyone for their feelings - but it DOES make me sad that our own people are so discouraged and disheartened. It does make me sad that we have people born and raised here who can say "We aren't great.. we need to be more like this country or that one". But.. the ability to have those opinions is part of why I love this place so much. So rock on.
|
| Posted 1/13/13 9:42 AM |
| |
|
JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Having social programs is far from being a socialist country like Cuba. Public schools and libraries didn't lead to the situation mrsmick is describing.
My point in posting this was just that I think if we beat our chests and say we are the best and no other country does anything better we're only going to decline because we'll have lost that drive to better.
Why is it such a crime to say other countries do certain things better and we ought to examine them, or that there are some harsh realities in this country that we should even be ashamed of.
Look at our political system. So much time and money is wasted arguing about social issues and monitoring what is and isn't done to ones sexual organs and we can't solve any of the very real issues we have, like a still struggling economy and a staggering amount of gun deaths. Oh yes, and millions of uninsured Americans too. Piddle, Twiddle, and resolve and still there's no change. We're a country so hampered by the status quo. When was the last time we saw a big meaningful change? If we go ahead and bash around saying we're the greatest, that the status quo is so amazing, then we'll never have more.
|
| Posted 1/13/13 9:46 AM |
| |
|
BriBri2u
L'amore vince sempre
Member since 5/05 9320 total posts
Name:
Mrs. B
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
 well said and so true!
|
| Posted 1/13/13 10:15 AM |
| |
|
rojerono
Happiest.
Member since 8/06 13803 total posts
Name:
Jeannie
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by JenniferEver
Having social programs is far from being a socialist country like Cuba. Public schools and libraries didn't lead to the situation mrsmick is describing.
My point in posting this was just that I think if we beat our chests and say we are the best and no other country does anything better we're only going to decline because we'll have lost that drive to better.
Why is it such a crime to say other countries do certain things better and we ought to examine them, or that there are some harsh realities in this country that we should even be ashamed of.
Look at our political system. So much time and money is wasted arguing about social issues and monitoring what is and isn't done to ones sexual organs and we can't solve any of the very real issues we have, like a still struggling economy and a staggering amount of gun deaths. Oh yes, and millions of uninsured Americans too. Piddle, Twiddle, and resolve and still there's no change. We're a country so hampered by the status quo. When was the last time we saw a big meaningful change? If we go ahead and bash around saying we're the greatest, that the status quo is so amazing, then we'll never have more.
I agree with SO MUCH of what you say.. but the core is this.. I don't believe that having national pride equals complacency. I also don't believe that embarrassment spurs change.
Arrogance - on anyone - is ugly and often laughable. If an American went to the Eiffel Tower and waved a US flag and screamed "I'm American ******! We RULE!" I'd CRINGE! I certainly wouldn't stand next to them and fist pump! If a European came to NY and proclaimed loudly "UGh! You Americans are a disgusting bunch!" I would feel equally embarrassed for that person.. and I definitely wouldn't sidle up to them and say "I know.. right??"
But tearing up at the National Anthem or feeling that smile when you hear a country song lauding the privilege of being born in this country? Is that bad?
And yeah.. things DO need to change.. but shaming doesn't work. I mean.. if you have a kid who is pulling B's and you KNOW they could be getting A's.. how do you handle it? Do you say "God.. you are just not that good! You aren't the best! Abigail is SOOO much smarter than you! I wish you were more like her!" OR do you say "I know you are amazing.. you are so smart and so capable! Let's try to figure out how we can work with what YOU have so you can show the teachers how amazing you are!"
I don't know.. I guess I feel pride and the determination to continually evolve and get better are NOT mutually exclusive. Maybe I'm wrong..
Message edited 1/13/2013 10:27:20 AM.
|
| Posted 1/13/13 10:26 AM |
| |
|
yankinmanc
Happy Days!
Member since 8/05 18208 total posts
Name:
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by BigB
What a flashback to my college class with the Sweedish exchange student....The United States cannot be compared to other countries for a few reasons:
1. We are not homogenous (We do not have a common language, faith, or nationality) Very few people identify themselves as being American (they still resort to their ethnicity)
2. The immigration to America is the highest of all the countries in the world
3. Over 50% of America's population doesn't pay taxes (either too old, too young, or no SS #)
4. Our population is second to that of China
5. We are an entitled country that feels that we should have material things to equate success (house, car, latest electronics)
As one who works with families who come to America and take, take, take, and then go back to "their" country, it annoys me....just a little....
Most of this is true in soooo many other countries. Bar the population and sheer size of landmass, so many other countries can claim these things. Not exclusive to the US.
|
| Posted 1/13/13 11:21 AM |
| |
|
Never2Part
LIF Infant
Member since 11/10 214 total posts
Name:
Adore my Che Che :)
|
Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by juanvi
I disagree! To me it is the greatest country in the world. The freedomsnand opportunity are taken for granted. However, the maternity is terrible. In feel moms are treated like cattle,pushing us out of the hospital and back into work. Wen need more Time to mend and take care of our little ones. I also think the younger Americans and I'm including my generation of Americans haveva sense of entitlement that is toxic.
agreed!
|
| Posted 1/15/13 5:01 PM |
| |
|
| Pages: << 4 5 6 [7] |
Potentially Related Topics:
Currently 890909 users on the LIFamilies.com Chat
|
Long Island Bridal Shows
|
