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McSullivan
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Member since 5/05 1573 total posts
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by McSullivan
Posted by MandJZ
3. What if MY religion states that everyone should have medical care? Isn't it then against MY religious beliefs if this isn't provided. Religious freedom means you get to practice your religion without interference but it ALSO means so does everyone else. Beyond that, providing health insurance options to employees that may INCLUDE birth control doesn't at all take away from someone's INDIVIDUAL right to practice their religion. Corporations aren't people. They don't (or shouldn't) have rights.
Here's a question - why MUST birth control be covered under health insurance? I'm sincerely curious.
Because it's a health issue. HEALTH insurance. HEALTH issue.
I'm truly not trying to be obtuse, I really do want to understand. The HEALTH issue in this instance is prevention of disease? The spread of disease?
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Posted 1/11/13 2:27 PM  |
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BunnyWife
Insert Witty Comment Here
Member since 5/07 8274 total posts
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BunnyWife
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by Ophelia
I really and truly honestly do not care if you disagree with what the HCRA says. but if you base your arguments on something that is actually not true, I am going to point that out. sorry if that offends.
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| Posted 1/11/13 2:27 PM |
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McSullivan
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Member since 5/05 1573 total posts
Name:
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by ElizaRags35
Isn't it a medication? Isn't it used for reasons other than to prevent pregnancy such as to control acne, regulate periods, controlling endometriosis?
Okay. Thanks.
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| Posted 1/11/13 2:29 PM |
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casey31
Mommy of 3!
Member since 5/05 2967 total posts
Name:
Mommy to two boys and a girl
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
The way I look at the Catholic hospital/birth control issue:
A Catholic hospital believes birth control is morally wrong (I for the record don't). The government is forcing them to pay for it as part of their medical plans. If an employee wishes to have her birth control paid for and works at a Catholic hospital- too bad- pay for it on your own or get new job. It sounds harsh but that is America- government stay out of it!
Its not discrimination, harassment, workplace safety or anything the government should be involved in regulating.
Also, now that the government is requiring free birth control, all of our premiums will be going up. Personally, why should I pay more for my family plan to pay for someone else's birth control pills?
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| Posted 1/11/13 2:29 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
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M
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by McSullivan
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by McSullivan
Posted by MandJZ
3. What if MY religion states that everyone should have medical care? Isn't it then against MY religious beliefs if this isn't provided. Religious freedom means you get to practice your religion without interference but it ALSO means so does everyone else. Beyond that, providing health insurance options to employees that may INCLUDE birth control doesn't at all take away from someone's INDIVIDUAL right to practice their religion. Corporations aren't people. They don't (or shouldn't) have rights.
Here's a question - why MUST birth control be covered under health insurance? I'm sincerely curious.
Because it's a health issue. HEALTH insurance. HEALTH issue.
I'm truly not trying to be obtuse, I really do want to understand. The HEALTH issue in this instance is prevention of disease? The spread of disease?
The health issues are numerous. Prevention of unwanted and possibly uncared for pregnancies. Many, many women take hormonal birth control for reasons unrelated to SEX. One example (and I know of many) is my sister. She has a condition that makes her periods extremely irregular and often heavy to the point of dangerous blood loss and extreme pain. Without birth control to regulate and treat this she would not only lose blood and be in serious pain but would also likely be unable to conceive later in life. The alternative to birth control is expensive, invasive surgery. Birth control is actually the MORE cost effective solution in this case. There are many examples similar to this. But pregnancy (and preventing it) is a health issue, in and of itself.
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| Posted 1/11/13 2:30 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
I totally agree that a religious organization should not have to pay for or provide anything that goes against the tenants of the religion.
I don't care if the practictioner of said religon breaks every commandment. the LAW should not force the religion to change their rules. that to me is a violation of the first amendment.
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| Posted 1/11/13 2:30 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by casey31
The way I look at the Catholic hospital/birth control issue:
A Catholic hospital believes birth control is morally wrong (I for the record don't). The government is forcing them to pay for it as part of their medical plans. If an employee wishes to have her birth control paid for and works at a Catholic hospital- too bad- pay for it on your own or get new job. It sounds harsh but that is America- government stay out of it!
Its not discrimination, harassment, workplace safety or anything the government should be involved in regulating.
Also, now that the government is requiring free birth control, all of our premiums will be going up. Personally, why should I pay more for my family plan to pay for someone else's birth control pills?
Did you READ what Ophelia posted?
Religious orgs are EXEMPT and the health insurance company bears the burden. So the first part of your argument is totally moot.
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| Posted 1/11/13 2:31 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by casey31
The way I look at the Catholic hospital/birth control issue:
A Catholic hospital believes birth control is morally wrong (I for the record don't). The government is forcing them to pay for it as part of their medical plans. If an employee wishes to have her birth control paid for and works at a Catholic hospital- too bad- pay for it on your own or get new job. It sounds harsh but that is America- government stay out of it!
Its not discrimination, harassment, workplace safety or anything the government should be involved in regulating.
Also, now that the government is requiring free birth control, all of our premiums will be going up. Personally, why should I pay more for my family plan to pay for someone else's birth control pills?
but it's actually NOT . there is a religious exemption. I just posted it.
isn't free birth control better than welfare or an abortion of 9 months of pre natal and then post natal care?
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| Posted 1/11/13 2:32 PM |
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DirtyBlonde
*****
Member since 11/07 7344 total posts
Name:
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by Ayne11
This was probably one of the greatest speeches ever on TV!
agreed
I read this whole thread and after reading some responses, I got that song "America, F*ck Yeah" in my head from Team America World Police.
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| Posted 1/11/13 2:39 PM |
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BunnyWife
Insert Witty Comment Here
Member since 5/07 8274 total posts
Name:
BunnyWife
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by DirtyBlonde
Posted by Ayne11
This was probably one of the greatest speeches ever on TV!
agreed
I read this whole thread and after reading some responses, I got that song "America, F*ck Yeah" in my head from Team America World Police.
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| Posted 1/11/13 2:43 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by DirtyBlonde
Posted by Ayne11
This was probably one of the greatest speeches ever on TV!
agreed
I read this whole thread and after reading some responses, I got that song "America, F*ck Yeah" in my head from Team America World Police.
You read this whole thread?
Your brain must ache now.
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| Posted 1/11/13 2:44 PM |
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DirtyBlonde
*****
Member since 11/07 7344 total posts
Name:
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by DirtyBlonde
Posted by Ayne11
This was probably one of the greatest speeches ever on TV!
agreed
I read this whole thread and after reading some responses, I got that song "America, F*ck Yeah" in my head from Team America World Police.
You read this whole thread?
Your brain must ache now.
That Team America song spared me of any pain.
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| Posted 1/11/13 2:46 PM |
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casey31
Mommy of 3!
Member since 5/05 2967 total posts
Name:
Mommy to two boys and a girl
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by Ophelia
I really and truly honestly do not care if you disagree with what the HCRA says. but if you base your arguments on something that is actually not true, I am going to point that out. sorry if that offends.
Actually, the religious exemption that you posted about above applies to churches only- not Catholic hospitals or schools. So, "if you base your arguments on something that is actually not true, I am going to point that out. sorry if that offends."
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| Posted 1/11/13 2:55 PM |
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casey31
Mommy of 3!
Member since 5/05 2967 total posts
Name:
Mommy to two boys and a girl
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by casey31
The way I look at the Catholic hospital/birth control issue:
A Catholic hospital believes birth control is morally wrong (I for the record don't). The government is forcing them to pay for it as part of their medical plans. If an employee wishes to have her birth control paid for and works at a Catholic hospital- too bad- pay for it on your own or get new job. It sounds harsh but that is America- government stay out of it!
Its not discrimination, harassment, workplace safety or anything the government should be involved in regulating.
Also, now that the government is requiring free birth control, all of our premiums will be going up. Personally, why should I pay more for my family plan to pay for someone else's birth control pills?
Did you READ what Ophelia posted?
Religious orgs are EXEMPT and the health insurance company bears the burden. So the first part of your argument is totally moot.
yes, I can READ- only churches are EXEMPT- not schools and hospitals so my argument is not totally moot. I will no longer be posting on this thread- the tone is a little too nasty for me.
Message edited 1/11/2013 2:56:42 PM.
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| Posted 1/11/13 2:56 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by casey31
Posted by Ophelia
I really and truly honestly do not care if you disagree with what the HCRA says. but if you base your arguments on something that is actually not true, I am going to point that out. sorry if that offends.
Actually, the religious exemption that you posted about above applies to churches only- not Catholic hospitals or schools. So, "if you base your arguments on something that is actually not true, I am going to point that out. sorry if that offends."
• The President will also announce that his Administration will propose and finalize a new regulation during this transition year to address the religious objections of the non-exempted non-profit religious organizations.
The new regulation will require insurance companies to cover contraception if the religious organization chooses not to. Under the policy:
o Religious organizations will not have to provide contraceptive coverage or refer their employees to organizations that provide contraception.
o Religious organizations will not be required to subsidize the cost of contraception.
o Contraception coverage will be offered to women by their employers’ insurance companies directly, with no role for religious employers who oppose contraception.
o Insurance companies will be required to provide contraception coverage to these women free of charge.
loved the snark though 
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| Posted 1/11/13 3:00 PM |
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Jugglemom
LIF Adolescent
Member since 3/12 809 total posts
Name:
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by casey31
Posted by Ophelia
I really and truly honestly do not care if you disagree with what the HCRA says. but if you base your arguments on something that is actually not true, I am going to point that out. sorry if that offends.
Actually, the religious exemption that you posted about above applies to churches only- not Catholic hospitals or schools. So, "if you base your arguments on something that is actually not true, I am going to point that out. sorry if that offends."
• The President will also announce that his Administration will propose and finalize a new regulation during this transition year to address the religious objections of the non-exempted non-profit religious organizations.
The new regulation will require insurance companies to cover contraception if the religious organization chooses not to. Under the policy:
o Religious organizations will not have to provide contraceptive coverage or refer their employees to organizations that provide contraception.
o Religious organizations will not be required to subsidize the cost of contraception.
o Contraception coverage will be offered to women by their employers’ insurance companies directly, with no role for religious employers who oppose contraception.
o Insurance companies will be required to provide contraception coverage to these women free of charge.
loved the snark though
Please note that the term used in the act is "religious employer". It is important to read the definitions in evaluating any document. Under the act religious employer is defined as
The Definition of “Religious Employer”
“[F]or purposes of this subsection”—i.e., to define those organizations that are exempt from the contraceptives mandate—“a ‘religious employer’ is an organization that meets all of the following criteria:
(1) The inculcation of religious values is the purpose of the organization.
(2) The organization primarily employs persons who share the religious tenets of the organization.
(3) The organization serves primarily persons who share the religious tenets of the organization.
(4) The organization is a nonprofit organization as described in section 6033(a)(1) and section 6033(a)(3)(A)(i) or (iii) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended.”
- under this definition a religious hospital or even a catholic university would not meet the criteria as their purpose is not the inculcation of religious values.
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| Posted 1/11/13 3:29 PM |
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casey31
Mommy of 3!
Member since 5/05 2967 total posts
Name:
Mommy to two boys and a girl
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by casey31
Posted by Ophelia
I really and truly honestly do not care if you disagree with what the HCRA says. but if you base your arguments on something that is actually not true, I am going to point that out. sorry if that offends.
Actually, the religious exemption that you posted about above applies to churches only- not Catholic hospitals or schools. So, "if you base your arguments on something that is actually not true, I am going to point that out. sorry if that offends."
• The President will also announce that his Administration will propose and finalize a new regulation during this transition year to address the religious objections of the non-exempted non-profit religious organizations.
The new regulation will require insurance companies to cover contraception if the religious organization chooses not to. Under the policy:
o Religious organizations will not have to provide contraceptive coverage or refer their employees to organizations that provide contraception.
o Religious organizations will not be required to subsidize the cost of contraception.
o Contraception coverage will be offered to women by their employers’ insurance companies directly, with no role for religious employers who oppose contraception.
o Insurance companies will be required to provide contraception coverage to these women free of charge.
loved the snark though
Your facts are for non-profits only. For-profit religious based organizations are not exempt.
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| Posted 1/11/13 3:34 PM |
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casey31
Mommy of 3!
Member since 5/05 2967 total posts
Name:
Mommy to two boys and a girl
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by casey31
Posted by Ophelia
I really and truly honestly do not care if you disagree with what the HCRA says. but if you base your arguments on something that is actually not true, I am going to point that out. sorry if that offends.
Actually, the religious exemption that you posted about above applies to churches only- not Catholic hospitals or schools. So, "if you base your arguments on something that is actually not true, I am going to point that out. sorry if that offends."
• The President will also announce that his Administration will propose and finalize a new regulation during this transition year to address the religious objections of the non-exempted non-profit religious organizations.
The new regulation will require insurance companies to cover contraception if the religious organization chooses not to. Under the policy:
o Religious organizations will not have to provide contraceptive coverage or refer their employees to organizations that provide contraception.
o Religious organizations will not be required to subsidize the cost of contraception.
o Contraception coverage will be offered to women by their employers’ insurance companies directly, with no role for religious employers who oppose contraception.
o Insurance companies will be required to provide contraception coverage to these women free of charge.
loved the snark though
Please note that the term used in the act is "religious employer". It is important to read the definitions in evaluating any document. Under the act religious employer is defined as
The Definition of “Religious Employer”
“[F]or purposes of this subsection”—i.e., to define those organizations that are exempt from the contraceptives mandate—“a ‘religious employer’ is an organization that meets all of the following criteria:
(1) The inculcation of religious values is the purpose of the organization.
(2) The organization primarily employs persons who share the religious tenets of the organization.
(3) The organization serves primarily persons who share the religious tenets of the organization.
(4) The organization is a nonprofit organization as described in section 6033(a)(1) and section 6033(a)(3)(A)(i) or (iii) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended.”
- under this definition a religious hospital or even a catholic university would not meet the criteria as their purpose is not the inculcation of religious values.
Thank you- I was trying to research this- I thought that schools and hospitals were not exempt and hence all the controversy lately on this.
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| Posted 1/11/13 3:36 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by casey31
Posted by Jugglemom
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by casey31
Posted by Ophelia
I really and truly honestly do not care if you disagree with what the HCRA says. but if you base your arguments on something that is actually not true, I am going to point that out. sorry if that offends.
Actually, the religious exemption that you posted about above applies to churches only- not Catholic hospitals or schools. So, "if you base your arguments on something that is actually not true, I am going to point that out. sorry if that offends."
• The President will also announce that his Administration will propose and finalize a new regulation during this transition year to address the religious objections of the non-exempted non-profit religious organizations.
The new regulation will require insurance companies to cover contraception if the religious organization chooses not to. Under the policy:
o Religious organizations will not have to provide contraceptive coverage or refer their employees to organizations that provide contraception.
o Religious organizations will not be required to subsidize the cost of contraception.
o Contraception coverage will be offered to women by their employers’ insurance companies directly, with no role for religious employers who oppose contraception.
o Insurance companies will be required to provide contraception coverage to these women free of charge.
loved the snark though
Please note that the term used in the act is "religious employer". It is important to read the definitions in evaluating any document. Under the act religious employer is defined as
The Definition of “Religious Employer”
“[F]or purposes of this subsection”—i.e., to define those organizations that are exempt from the contraceptives mandate—“a ‘religious employer’ is an organization that meets all of the following criteria:
(1) The inculcation of religious values is the purpose of the organization.
(2) The organization primarily employs persons who share the religious tenets of the organization.
(3) The organization serves primarily persons who share the religious tenets of the organization.
(4) The organization is a nonprofit organization as described in section 6033(a)(1) and section 6033(a)(3)(A)(i) or (iii) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, as amended.”
- under this definition a religious hospital or even a catholic university would not meet the criteria as their purpose is not the inculcation of religious values.
Thank you- I was trying to research this- I thought that schools and hospitals were not exempt and hence all the controversy lately on this.
actually both of your responses made me investigate this further b/c the bill is ever evolving. what I posted are the changes that are going to be made in the next year. I am also interested to see WHO exactly will be exempted under this new set of changes b/c I actually DO NOT believe that a religious institution should have to be directly involved in measures that goes against it's doctrines.
however, the sticky issue is that not covering female rx's when they cover male rx's also goes against the EEOC laws regarding discrimination on gender.
I am reading not only "religious employer" but "religious organization". I am looking to see what is covered under that umbrella.
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| Posted 1/11/13 4:36 PM |
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yankinmanc
Happy Days!
Member since 8/05 18208 total posts
Name:
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
I haven't read all these posts, but peoples perceptions about socialised medicine really gets my goat. I am living with it and probably wouldn't return to the states because of the healthcare situation.
Here's an example....yesterday I rang my GP and I got an appointment to see her at 11.40 this morning. She was a few minutes late, but she saw me for my bronchitis at about noon. She told me to go for w chest X-ray, I went to a local community hospital and had an X-ray, there was no one waiting and I was back home to 1.45 pm.
I don't understand sometimes when people say America is a free country etc, plenty of other countries have freedoms of speech and the citizens are free. I love America and I am proud to be an American, but I dont understand the sentiment.
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| Posted 1/11/13 4:57 PM |
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Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
Member since 5/05 27567 total posts
Name:
Janice
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
I would have NEVER went for that xray.
it would have been oop for me.
dh and i have learned to just chance things rather then adding to our never ending med debt.
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| Posted 1/11/13 5:31 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by yankinmanc
I haven't read all these posts, but peoples perceptions about socialised medicine really gets my goat. I am living with it and probably wouldn't return to the states because of the healthcare situation.
Here's an example....yesterday I rang my GP and I got an appointment to see her at 11.40 this morning. She was a few minutes late, but she saw me for my bronchitis at about noon. She told me to go for w chest X-ray, I went to a local community hospital and had an X-ray, there was no one waiting and I was back home to 1.45 pm.
I don't understand sometimes when people say America is a free country etc, plenty of other countries have freedoms of speech and the citizens are free. I love America and I am proud to be an American, but I dont understand the sentiment.
Totally unrelated but I adore your British speech and spelling. Reminds me of home
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| Posted 1/11/13 5:41 PM |
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yankinmanc
Happy Days!
Member since 8/05 18208 total posts
Name:
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by yankinmanc
I haven't read all these posts, but peoples perceptions about socialised medicine really gets my goat. I am living with it and probably wouldn't return to the states because of the healthcare situation.
Here's an example....yesterday I rang my GP and I got an appointment to see her at 11.40 this morning. She was a few minutes late, but she saw me for my bronchitis at about noon. She told me to go for w chest X-ray, I went to a local community hospital and had an X-ray, there was no one waiting and I was back home to 1.45 pm.
I don't understand sometimes when people say America is a free country etc, plenty of other countries have freedoms of speech and the citizens are free. I love America and I am proud to be an American, but I dont understand the sentiment.
Totally unrelated but I adore your British speech and spelling. Reminds me of home
Lol, thanks, if you met me though my accent is a bizarre combination of Merokian/Long Islander/Mancunian. Very mixed up!
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| Posted 1/11/13 5:44 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11487 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by yankinmanc
I haven't read all these posts, but peoples perceptions about socialised medicine really gets my goat. I am living with it and probably wouldn't return to the states because of the healthcare situation.
...
I don't understand sometimes when people say America is a free country etc, plenty of other countries have freedoms of speech and the citizens are free. I love America and I am proud to be an American, but I dont understand the sentiment.
eta: my only complaint of living in a socialized medicine country is the lack of painkillers and antibiotics here. Germany is very natural, homeopathic. I broke my arm and was sent home with ibuprofen. Other than that, the care I have gotten has been great.
Message edited 1/11/2013 5:49:35 PM.
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| Posted 1/11/13 5:45 PM |
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Lillies
Grateful for my babies!
Member since 2/12 4571 total posts
Name:
<3
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Re: "America is not the greatest country in the world"
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by JsWife
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by JsWife
I watched about two episodes of this show and couldn't stomach it.
I'm not saying America is perfect but what if it is not the greatest country in the world what is? Honestly... what country is better?
Canada? England?
Really? Socialized medicine? Waiting 6 months for a doctor's appointment? These two countries are also among the highest marginal tax rates in the world. No thanks.
I'm sure others will chime in but this is such a huge misconception. I spent the first 23 years of my life in Canada and never once waited that long for a doctor's appointments. I find my wait times here are almost exactly the same as they were there.
ETA:
READ ME. TRUST ME.
I worked with a few Canadians that said the exact same thing. No issue with Drs or appts.
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| Posted 1/11/13 5:51 PM |
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