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mcl916
my two loves
Member since 10/06 5133 total posts
Name:
Megan
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by Janice
interesting....
so I wonder how illegals give birth in hospitals?
do clinics see them?
you would think with a hospital stay, they would run a ssn....
Not 100% sure on this one, but they are seen in clinics IF they go for prenatal care. And again I think they apply for Medicaid. No ss# necessary to give birth!! Of course their child will leave the hospital with one though  It's really mind-boggling.
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Posted 8/30/08 9:41 PM  |
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Beth
The Key to your new home....
Member since 2/06 24849 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by Janice
I think the number is 50 million(don't quote me ) without insurance in the US.
I am not quoting the number! 
But, I'm wondering, does that rough estimate include illegal immigrants? Or, is that number american citizens w/o health insurance?
it really doesn't matter when you think about it- b/c either way both are a drain on the economy and the hospitals
but I think it's Citizens- I heard it on news recently
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| Posted 8/30/08 9:41 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by tommy2
In the end, the American taxpayer pays many times the amount the cheap hourly wage was worth to a vagabond American company.
interesting... very
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| Posted 8/30/08 9:42 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
I wonder... how does a country like the UK or Canada handle people who are non citizens and have no $, but need care
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| Posted 8/30/08 9:44 PM |
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mcl916
my two loves
Member since 10/06 5133 total posts
Name:
Megan
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by tommy2
Posted from Militaryspot.com
A few numbers: William Gheen, president of Americans for Legal Immigration, states that this is "the end of America as we know it. At least 10 million illegal immigrants are in the U.S. now, and that'll double in five years." (Dallas Morning News, Rancher in border case backs Minuteman, 04/03/2005) FOXNews.com reports that "public health care in Los Angeles is on life support, where sixty percent of the county's uninsured patients are not U.S. citizens. More than half are here illegally. About 2 million undocumented aliens in Los Angeles County alone are crowding emergency rooms because they can't afford to see a doctor." (L.A. Emergency Rooms Full of Illegal Immigrants, 03/17/2005). The National Research Council estimates that the net fiscal cost of immigration ranges from $11 billion to $22 billion per year, with state and local governments bearing most of the costs. California's tab is estimated at $3 billion alone. Richard D. Lamm, former governor of Colorado, writes in the Denver Post that "illegal immigration today isn't cheap labor, except to the employer. The average family of illegal immigrants has two to four school-age kids. It costs U.S. taxpayers more than $7,000 a child just to educate them in our public schools." (There's nothing cheap about immigrant labor, 04/03/05) In the end, the American taxpayer pays many times the amount the cheap hourly wage was worth to a vagabond American company.
This IMO is the biggest problem facing our nation today.
Thanks for that. I TOTALLY agree that this is the biggest problem our nation has and I have yet to hear either party spell out a ground-breaking plan that is going to start addressing this. Our borders are not secure and our healthcare system is taking a huge hit which in effect is draining the economy. A pretty bad domino effect. And if the number of illegals doubles in 5 years, we are going to have some SERIOUS issues that can't be ignored.
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| Posted 8/30/08 9:45 PM |
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Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
Member since 5/05 27567 total posts
Name:
Janice
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by greeneyes361708
Pregnant illegal immigrants can get medicaid. Their babies are covered too. Straight from the NY Medicaid site:
*NOTE: Medicaid coverage is available, regardless of alien status, if you are pregnant or require treatment for an emergency medical condition. A doctor must certify that you are pregnant or had an emergency, and you must meet all other eligibility requirements.
NY Medicaid
thanks!
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| Posted 8/30/08 9:45 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by mcl916
Posted by tommy2
Posted from Militaryspot.com
A few numbers: William Gheen, president of Americans for Legal Immigration, states that this is "the end of America as we know it. At least 10 million illegal immigrants are in the U.S. now, and that'll double in five years." (Dallas Morning News, Rancher in border case backs Minuteman, 04/03/2005) FOXNews.com reports that "public health care in Los Angeles is on life support, where sixty percent of the county's uninsured patients are not U.S. citizens. More than half are here illegally. About 2 million undocumented aliens in Los Angeles County alone are crowding emergency rooms because they can't afford to see a doctor." (L.A. Emergency Rooms Full of Illegal Immigrants, 03/17/2005). The National Research Council estimates that the net fiscal cost of immigration ranges from $11 billion to $22 billion per year, with state and local governments bearing most of the costs. California's tab is estimated at $3 billion alone. Richard D. Lamm, former governor of Colorado, writes in the Denver Post that "illegal immigration today isn't cheap labor, except to the employer. The average family of illegal immigrants has two to four school-age kids. It costs U.S. taxpayers more than $7,000 a child just to educate them in our public schools." (There's nothing cheap about immigrant labor, 04/03/05) In the end, the American taxpayer pays many times the amount the cheap hourly wage was worth to a vagabond American company.
This IMO is the biggest problem facing our nation today.
Thanks for that. I TOTALLY agree that this is the biggest problem our nation has and I have yet to hear either party spell out a ground-breaking plan that is going to start addressing this. Our borders are not secure and our healthcare system is taking a huge hit which in effect is draining the economy. A pretty bad domino effect. And if the number of illegals doubles in 5 years, we are going to have some SERIOUS issues that can't be ignored.
yep. 
i am not for universal healthcare, btw. i forgot to answer that!
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| Posted 8/30/08 9:47 PM |
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Janice
Sweet Jessie Quinn
Member since 5/05 27567 total posts
Name:
Janice
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by Beth1210
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by Janice
I think the number is 50 million(don't quote me ) without insurance in the US.
I am not quoting the number!
But, I'm wondering, does that rough estimate include illegal immigrants? Or, is that number american citizens w/o health insurance?
it really doesn't matter when you think about it- b/c either way both are a drain on the economy and the hospitals
but I think it's Citizens- I heard it on news recently
found this:
Who are the uninsured?
Nearly 47 million Americans, or 16 percent of the population, were without health insurance in 2005, the latest government data available.1
The number of uninsured rose 2.2 million between 2005 and 2006 and has increased by almost 9 million people since 2000.1
The large majority of the uninsured (80 percent) are native or naturalized citizens.2
link
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| Posted 8/30/08 9:48 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by Janice
Posted by Beth1210
Posted by DaniRella
Posted by Janice
I think the number is 50 million(don't quote me ) without insurance in the US.
I am not quoting the number!
But, I'm wondering, does that rough estimate include illegal immigrants? Or, is that number american citizens w/o health insurance?
it really doesn't matter when you think about it- b/c either way both are a drain on the economy and the hospitals
but I think it's Citizens- I heard it on news recently
found this:
Who are the uninsured?
Nearly 47 million Americans, or 16 percent of the population, were without health insurance in 2005, the latest government data available.1
The number of uninsured rose 2.2 million between 2005 and 2006 and has increased by almost 9 million people since 2000.1
The large majority of the uninsured (80 percent) are native or naturalized citizens.2
link
thanks for the facts! i appreciate it.
b/c IMO it does matter.
either way, according to those facts there are roughly ten million w/o medical who are illegal immigrants... i was just wondering about that.
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| Posted 8/30/08 9:51 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
I personally would not want it. there is a reason why wealthy people from Europe come to NY for surgery.
I don't quite agree with this statement. There are plenty of more than "qualified" Dr. and surgeons who EXCEL in their medical field in Europe.
Not all people go the US to get surgery thinking if the don't they would die.
The national system is great. You never have to worry when transfering jobs. You always medical coverage, regardless of your job, your income. Everybody has the same dr. Wealthy or not! Even the good drs
Unless you are super wealthy it is to the advantage of every one.
Of course, you would have to deal with the leeches. And there are plenty of them.
Smoking, yet getting 100% coverage on drugs for heart conditions. My grandfather was doing it so.. I know!
So the big cons is that just like insurance here in the US, everybody has to pay. For the real sick and the leeches!
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| Posted 8/30/08 9:53 PM |
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Mom-2-Liam
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 917 total posts
Name:
Mary
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
You know it's hard to say yes or no. On one hand I know in Ireland where my FIL and step MIL live, she has to wait weeks to get certain tests done. When she felt a lump in her breast it took almost 6 weeks go get a mammagraphy taken. She has thyroid problems that she just can't seem to get rid of, probably because she is only seeing GP's and not a specialist, because to get to see a specialist would take months. She's still waiting to see one from when her thyroid started bothering her about 3 years ago!
Then you look at France and they have socialized medicine and it seems to work. Really good. I know someone that lived there for awhile that said the taxes are unreal in France but it's so worth it when you need emergency medical attention or have to go for surgery or be hospitalized. Her pre-natal care was nothing short of amazing.
I have so-so things about socialized medicine in Canada - my friend's sister moved up to BC a few years ago and hates the healthcare there, but Dh has a friend that lives on Montreal and says it's wonderful - better than in Ireland.
I think it really depends on how much the country spends on healthcare annually - how much of the taxes overall are spent on it, how much per capita, etc.
It also depends on personal experience. I have had cruddy insurance hated healthcare of course. No one took my insurance except (IMO) horrible doctors, I couldn't stand any I went to that took the plan. Now I have full medical and it's a great plan as well and everyone takes it and I'm loving it. So that matters too...(at least here in the US)
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| Posted 8/30/08 9:54 PM |
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mathteach
Roll Tide!
Member since 8/08 3169 total posts
Name:
Christine
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
I wonder... how does a country like the UK or Canada handle people who are non citizens and have no $, but need care
Do they get as many of these types of people as we do?
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| Posted 8/30/08 9:56 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by smdl
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
I personally would not want it. there is a reason why wealthy people from Europe come to NY for surgery.
I don't quite agree with this statement. There are plenty of more than "qualified" Dr. and surgeons who EXCEL in their medical field in Europe.
Not all people go the US to get surgery thinking if the don't they would die.
The national system is great. You never have to worry when transfering jobs. You always medical coverage, regardless of your job, your income. Everybody has the same dr. Wealthy or not! Even the good drs
Unless you are super wealthy it is to the advantage of every one.
Of course, you would have to deal with the leeches. And there are plenty of them.
Smoking, yet getting 100% coverage on drugs for heart conditions. My grandfather was doing it so.. I know!
So the big cons is that just like insurance here in the US, everybody has to pay. For the real sick and the leeches!
my 2nd cousin (now retired) was a nurse in a NYC hospital all her life and she's the one who told me that she had a huge amount of wealthy patients who came here from Europe for better care.
Message edited 8/30/2008 9:56:54 PM.
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| Posted 8/30/08 9:56 PM |
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Beth
The Key to your new home....
Member since 2/06 24849 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by DaniRella
either way, according to those facts there are roughly ten million w/o medical who are illegal immigrants... i was just wondering about that.
of course all illegals are uninsured
how could they be insured when they work off the books for cash
if no one hired them- they wouldn't come here
if the people that hired them got the bill- maybe they wouldn't hire them!
I don't blame the illegals for coming here- I blame the Americans that pay them to work
but that's a different debate
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| Posted 8/30/08 9:57 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by mathteach
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
I wonder... how does a country like the UK or Canada handle people who are non citizens and have no $, but need care
Do they get as many of these types of people as we do?
I know the UK has a big problem with illegal immigrants from Muslim countries. same thing in France.
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| Posted 8/30/08 9:57 PM |
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Beth
The Key to your new home....
Member since 2/06 24849 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mathteach
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
I wonder... how does a country like the UK or Canada handle people who are non citizens and have no $, but need care
Do they get as many of these types of people as we do?
I know the UK has a big problem with illegal immigrants from Muslim countries. same thing in France.
italy also
tons of north africans
one kicked me in the leg and asked me for money (a 6 year old)
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| Posted 8/30/08 9:59 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by Beth1210
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mathteach
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
I wonder... how does a country like the UK or Canada handle people who are non citizens and have no $, but need care
Do they get as many of these types of people as we do?
I know the UK has a big problem with illegal immigrants from Muslim countries. same thing in France.
italy also
tons of north africans
one kicked me in the leg and asked me for money (a 6 year old)
 lovely
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| Posted 8/30/08 10:02 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by Mom-2-Liam
You know it's hard to say yes or no. On one hand I know in Ireland where my FIL and step MIL live, she has to wait weeks to get certain tests done. When she felt a lump in her breast it took almost 6 weeks go get a mammagraphy taken. She has thyroid problems that she just can't seem to get rid of, probably because she is only seeing GP's and not a specialist, because to get to see a specialist would take months. She's still waiting to see one from when her thyroid started bothering her about 3 years ago!
Then you look at France and they have socialized medicine and it seems to work. Really good. I know someone that lived there for awhile that said the taxes are unreal in France but it's so worth it when you need emergency medical attention or have to go for surgery or be hospitalized. Her pre-natal care was nothing short of amazing.
I have so-so things about socialized medicine in Canada - my friend's sister moved up to BC a few years ago and hates the healthcare there, but Dh has a friend that lives on Montreal and says it's wonderful - better than in Ireland.
I think it really depends on how much the country spends on healthcare annually - how much of the taxes overall are spent on it, how much per capita, etc.
It also depends on personal experience. I have had cruddy insurance hated healthcare of course. No one took my insurance except (IMO) horrible doctors, I couldn't stand any I went to that took the plan. Now I have full medical and it's a great plan as well and everyone takes it and I'm loving it. So that matters too...(at least here in the US)
Actually the medical system in France is drowning everybody.
Too many people take advantage.
Illegal imigrants are offered medical assistance. Hospitals are not allowed to refuse them medical attention. Neither are emergency/walk-in clinics.
Yet, when I was there. Everybody was able to get their teeth cleaned. Nobody worried that their kid would not be seeing a dr because the parents could not afford insurance.
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| Posted 8/30/08 10:03 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by Beth1210
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mathteach
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
I wonder... how does a country like the UK or Canada handle people who are non citizens and have no $, but need care
Do they get as many of these types of people as we do?
I know the UK has a big problem with illegal immigrants from Muslim countries. same thing in France.
italy also
tons of north africans
one kicked me in the leg and asked me for money (a 6 year old)
France has the highest rate of all Europe on Muslin Population. Over 10% of the population. A lot are illegal.
Both from North Africa or other parts of Africa.
They usually have multiple wifes, at least 10+ children. Sometimes they are not even their kids but they declare them as being theirs. They get all financial help, medical help, are unemployed.
This is a HUGE problem for France actually.
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| Posted 8/30/08 10:07 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by Beth1210
Posted by DaniRella
either way, according to those facts there are roughly ten million w/o medical who are illegal immigrants... i was just wondering about that.
of course all illegals are uninsured
how could they be insured when they work off the books for cash
if no one hired them- they wouldn't come here
if the people that hired them got the bill- maybe they wouldn't hire them!
I don't blame the illegals for coming here- I blame the Americans that pay them to work
but that's a different debate
ok, i'm not arguing! lol.
i understand what you are saying - i'm not debating one way or another.
i was just trying to figure out how many AMERICANS are uninsured -- so, the 47 million number is really around 37 million not counting the illegals.
that's all i was trying to, for myself, figure out. i promise!
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| Posted 8/30/08 10:07 PM |
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tommy2
LIF Infant
Member since 3/08 193 total posts
Name:
Tommy
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Another reason why Universal Healthcare would be more succesful abroad, is that on average they are healthier people. Which translates to less medical visits. Unlike the U.S. where obesity is rampant. If u thought the DMV was bad............
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| Posted 8/30/08 10:12 PM |
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BigB
C & J are 10!
Member since 6/05 5914 total posts
Name:
Stacey
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
Posted by Janice
The problem I feel is when employees pay an arm and a leg for horrible insurance.
I pay a lot for our insurance, yet there is always a loophole, forcing me to pay out of pocket anyway.
My sister married a Canadian. His family raves about their healthcare.
And yet, one of my BFFs is from Canada and all he does is complain about their system. He actually loves when he comes and lives here for a stint because he gets better healthcare.
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| Posted 8/30/08 11:48 PM |
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BaroqueMama
Chase is one!
Member since 5/05 27530 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
I don't know what the answer would be. I can see the pluses and minuses to both sides. It's like, pick the lesser of two evils. To me, as much as I would like to see everyone in this country have health care, I think that everyone should have the OPPORTUNITY for affordable health care, not just anyone off the streets. I work too hard for that.
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| Posted 8/30/08 11:49 PM |
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KPtoys
I'm getting old
Member since 5/05 8688 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
I am 100% for no socialized healthcare
100% for if your parents are illegal then you are illegal no matter where you were born
100% for no using our ER's as your personal physcian
We pay 1000 out of pocket every month for the most basic family plan with $30 copays. We are not rich. My DH works VERY hard for his family. It would be a slap in the face to just give any joe blow or jose blow free healthcare with our tax dollars.
This country needs some serious reform!
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| Posted 8/31/08 12:21 AM |
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stickydust
Now a mommy of 2!!!
Member since 4/06 3164 total posts
Name:
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Re: Another political topic - would you want socialized (or universal) healthcare in the US?
I am not for socialized health care but I do believe something needs to be done. I am fortunate enough to have excellent health care but I know that everyone is not as lucky.
With respect to the illegal immigrant issue it is an equally difficult situation because the alternative to treating these people is to just let them die which seems incredibly inhumane to me. Suppose an illegal immigrant child gets a life threating injury in a car accident are we just supposed to let him bleed to death on the street?
I guess I am just surprised at how all of us (including myself) are so full of contradictions. If you believe that everyone deserves health care than you should believe that they deserve it because they are human not because of where they were born.
I am starting to sound like a liberal
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| Posted 8/31/08 1:17 AM |
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