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stinger
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 4971 total posts
Name:
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Ban of immigrants
I read that trump is planning for an immigration ban from some middle eastern countries. Does anyone have a source or data on the relationship to terrorism the countries have? Basically want to know if the public can know the WHYS behind this or did he just pull this out of thin air. Also i keep reading he is banning Muslims. But is it not necessarily true its just that the majority of people from those countries are muslim?
I keep seeing that 3 countries which are not on the list he happens to have business ties to.
Im looking for scholarly sources to understand the truth to his reasons and the counter claim as well. What would a terrorism expert have to say about this?
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Posted 1/27/17 7:29 PM  |
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Chai77
Brighter days ahead
Member since 4/07 7364 total posts
Name:
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Re: Ban of immigrants
I don't know about the statistics or analysis of it but I heard he was banning not just immigration but all travel from several predominantly Muslim states. Noticeably missing from that list are Saudi Arabia and Afghanistan. Is this where he has business interests? This is sick. I feel like America is getting raped. And I don't say that flippantly or lightly.
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| Posted 1/27/17 8:15 PM |
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mrsrainbow
LIF Adult
Member since 1/17 1465 total posts
Name:
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Ban of immigrants
He banned every country except those he does business with.
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| Posted 1/27/17 8:54 PM |
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MrsT809
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 12167 total posts
Name:
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Ban of immigrants
Not a scholarly source at all but Trevor Noah mentioned the terrorists behind the San Bernardino and 9-11 were all from countries not on the list and those were two incidents trump mentioned on his recent tv interview as to why we need the ban. Go figure.
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| Posted 1/27/17 8:55 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Ban of immigrants
This is getting very scary. There's actually lack of clarity as to whether GREEN CARD HOLDERS in those countries will be included. And the ban has started. People with visas trying to board planes in the listed countries are being denied.
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| Posted 1/27/17 8:59 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Ban of immigrants
This is from an immigration forum:
" The following has now been CONFIRMED and OFFICIALLY signed by President Trump. Here are highlights -
Immigrant and non-immigrants from Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Iran, Libya, and Somalia will be banned from entering the United States for 90 days starting today.
The Secretary of Homeland Security will review "security procedures" in ALL countries to see if they provide enough information to adjudicate a visa application. Countries which DO not provide enough information will have 60 days to begin providing such information. If at that time they do NOT provide enough information, these countries will be added to the ban list (i.e., immigrants and non-immigrants from this country will not be allowed into the United States).
The Secretary of State along with the FBI director and Secretary of Homeland Security have to implement a NEW screening program for ALL visa applications. This NEW screening program must include - an in-person interview, a database to make sure that duplicated documents aren't provided, NEW forms to weed out frauds, as well as make sure that the applicant will be a contributing member of American society, and make sure that the applicant isn't a terrorist.
What does this all mean for IR1/CR1 and K1 applicants?
If you are a citizen of Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Iran, Libya, and Somalia:
Regardless of whatever visa you might have (IR1, CR1, K1, B2), you will not be allowed to enter the United States for the next 90 days. What does this mean for existing visa applications? Hard to say, but it seems very likely that they will be held up or delayed.
If you are from another country:
Within 30 days a new list of "problem" countries may be released. These countries will be ones which were found not to provide "sufficient" information (whatever the hell that means) to adjudicate a visa petition. Such countries will have 60 days to "fix" these problems and if they don't they will also join the banned list.
On top of all this a new screening program has been ordered to start. It's hard to say what exactly it will mean for existing applications or even when/if it may be implemented (a lot of what's being asked for seems to already exist). But this NEW screening program will apply to people of ALL countries (whatever it is and whenever it may start). "
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| Posted 1/27/17 9:01 PM |
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stinger
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 4971 total posts
Name:
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Re: Ban of immigrants
Posted by MandJZ
This is from an immigration forum:
" The following has now been CONFIRMED and OFFICIALLY signed by President Trump. Here are highlights -
Immigrant and non-immigrants from Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Iran, Libya, and Somalia will be banned from entering the United States for 90 days starting today.
The Secretary of Homeland Security will review "security procedures" in ALL countries to see if they provide enough information to adjudicate a visa application. Countries which DO not provide enough information will have 60 days to begin providing such information. If at that time they do NOT provide enough information, these countries will be added to the ban list (i.e., immigrants and non-immigrants from this country will not be allowed into the United States).
The Secretary of State along with the FBI director and Secretary of Homeland Security have to implement a NEW screening program for ALL visa applications. This NEW screening program must include - an in-person interview, a database to make sure that duplicated documents aren't provided, NEW forms to weed out frauds, as well as make sure that the applicant will be a contributing member of American society, and make sure that the applicant isn't a terrorist.
What does this all mean for IR1/CR1 and K1 applicants?
If you are a citizen of Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Iran, Libya, and Somalia:
Regardless of whatever visa you might have (IR1, CR1, K1, B2), you will not be allowed to enter the United States for the next 90 days. What does this mean for existing visa applications? Hard to say, but it seems very likely that they will be held up or delayed.
If you are from another country:
Within 30 days a new list of "problem" countries may be released. These countries will be ones which were found not to provide "sufficient" information (whatever the hell that means) to adjudicate a visa petition. Such countries will have 60 days to "fix" these problems and if they don't they will also join the banned list.
On top of all this a new screening program has been ordered to start. It's hard to say what exactly it will mean for existing applications or even when/if it may be implemented (a lot of what's being asked for seems to already exist). But this NEW screening program will apply to people of ALL countries (whatever it is and whenever it may start). "
How does he sign these orders so quickly? I thought that people said don't worry the president doesn't have that much power. And my question is why and what is he basing this all on?
Or should I just not try to make sense of it?
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| Posted 1/27/17 9:12 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Ban of immigrants
Posted by stinger
Posted by MandJZ
This is from an immigration forum:
" The following has now been CONFIRMED and OFFICIALLY signed by President Trump. Here are highlights -
Immigrant and non-immigrants from Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Iran, Libya, and Somalia will be banned from entering the United States for 90 days starting today.
The Secretary of Homeland Security will review "security procedures" in ALL countries to see if they provide enough information to adjudicate a visa application. Countries which DO not provide enough information will have 60 days to begin providing such information. If at that time they do NOT provide enough information, these countries will be added to the ban list (i.e., immigrants and non-immigrants from this country will not be allowed into the United States).
The Secretary of State along with the FBI director and Secretary of Homeland Security have to implement a NEW screening program for ALL visa applications. This NEW screening program must include - an in-person interview, a database to make sure that duplicated documents aren't provided, NEW forms to weed out frauds, as well as make sure that the applicant will be a contributing member of American society, and make sure that the applicant isn't a terrorist.
What does this all mean for IR1/CR1 and K1 applicants?
If you are a citizen of Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Iran, Libya, and Somalia:
Regardless of whatever visa you might have (IR1, CR1, K1, B2), you will not be allowed to enter the United States for the next 90 days. What does this mean for existing visa applications? Hard to say, but it seems very likely that they will be held up or delayed.
If you are from another country:
Within 30 days a new list of "problem" countries may be released. These countries will be ones which were found not to provide "sufficient" information (whatever the hell that means) to adjudicate a visa petition. Such countries will have 60 days to "fix" these problems and if they don't they will also join the banned list.
On top of all this a new screening program has been ordered to start. It's hard to say what exactly it will mean for existing applications or even when/if it may be implemented (a lot of what's being asked for seems to already exist). But this NEW screening program will apply to people of ALL countries (whatever it is and whenever it may start). "
How does he sign these orders so quickly? I thought that people said don't worry the president doesn't have that much power. And my question is why and what is he basing this all on?
Or should I just not try to make sense of it?
I ACTUALLY HAVE AN ANSWER.
I called my dad tonight because he's an immigration lawyer and I wanted his take on this. He actually gave me even more info. His good friend is a professor of constitutional law at Cornell and wrote an article that he spoke to my dad about. Apparently the EOs likely aren't legal. He isn't following proper procedure and they are probably unconstitutional. BUT the courts are reluctant to limit executive power so they probably won't do anything about it.
For sure there will be lawsuits (ACLU SPLC etc) but the courts are likely, according to my dad's friend, to side with Trump. Unless it's at the state level and then, like, Cali and NY and whatever will go against.
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| Posted 1/27/17 9:17 PM |
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Michellec
LIF Infant
Member since 8/05 146 total posts
Name:
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Re: Ban of immigrants
Sickening. Wow.
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| Posted 1/27/17 9:26 PM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Ban of immigrants
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by stinger
Posted by MandJZ
This is from an immigration forum:
" The following has now been CONFIRMED and OFFICIALLY signed by President Trump. Here are highlights -
Immigrant and non-immigrants from Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Iran, Libya, and Somalia will be banned from entering the United States for 90 days starting today.
The Secretary of Homeland Security will review "security procedures" in ALL countries to see if they provide enough information to adjudicate a visa application. Countries which DO not provide enough information will have 60 days to begin providing such information. If at that time they do NOT provide enough information, these countries will be added to the ban list (i.e., immigrants and non-immigrants from this country will not be allowed into the United States).
The Secretary of State along with the FBI director and Secretary of Homeland Security have to implement a NEW screening program for ALL visa applications. This NEW screening program must include - an in-person interview, a database to make sure that duplicated documents aren't provided, NEW forms to weed out frauds, as well as make sure that the applicant will be a contributing member of American society, and make sure that the applicant isn't a terrorist.
What does this all mean for IR1/CR1 and K1 applicants?
If you are a citizen of Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Iran, Libya, and Somalia:
Regardless of whatever visa you might have (IR1, CR1, K1, B2), you will not be allowed to enter the United States for the next 90 days. What does this mean for existing visa applications? Hard to say, but it seems very likely that they will be held up or delayed.
If you are from another country:
Within 30 days a new list of "problem" countries may be released. These countries will be ones which were found not to provide "sufficient" information (whatever the hell that means) to adjudicate a visa petition. Such countries will have 60 days to "fix" these problems and if they don't they will also join the banned list.
On top of all this a new screening program has been ordered to start. It's hard to say what exactly it will mean for existing applications or even when/if it may be implemented (a lot of what's being asked for seems to already exist). But this NEW screening program will apply to people of ALL countries (whatever it is and whenever it may start). "
How does he sign these orders so quickly? I thought that people said don't worry the president doesn't have that much power. And my question is why and what is he basing this all on?
Or should I just not try to make sense of it?
I ACTUALLY HAVE AN ANSWER.
I called my dad tonight because he's an immigration lawyer and I wanted his take on this. He actually gave me even more info. His good friend is a professor of constitutional law at Cornell and wrote an article that he spoke to my dad about. Apparently the EOs likely aren't legal. He isn't following proper procedure and they are probably unconstitutional. BUT the courts are reluctant to limit executive power so they probably won't do anything about it.
For sure there will be lawsuits (ACLU SPLC etc) but the courts are likely, according to my dad's friend, to side with Trump. Unless it's at the state level and then, like, Cali and NY and whatever will go against.
How bout them checks and balances everyone keeps talking about. This is flucking maddening.
Welcome to the Fascist States of Ameritrump everyone.
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| Posted 1/27/17 9:34 PM |
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MrsT809
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 12167 total posts
Name:
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Ban of immigrants
I actually saw a tweet someone shared written by Pence in December 2015 calling a ban on Muslims "offensive and unconstitutional"
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| Posted 1/27/17 9:48 PM |
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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
Name:
Me speaks pirate!
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Re: Ban of immigrants
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by stinger
Posted by MandJZ
This is from an immigration forum:
" The following has now been CONFIRMED and OFFICIALLY signed by President Trump. Here are highlights -
Immigrant and non-immigrants from Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Iran, Libya, and Somalia will be banned from entering the United States for 90 days starting today.
The Secretary of Homeland Security will review "security procedures" in ALL countries to see if they provide enough information to adjudicate a visa application. Countries which DO not provide enough information will have 60 days to begin providing such information. If at that time they do NOT provide enough information, these countries will be added to the ban list (i.e., immigrants and non-immigrants from this country will not be allowed into the United States).
The Secretary of State along with the FBI director and Secretary of Homeland Security have to implement a NEW screening program for ALL visa applications. This NEW screening program must include - an in-person interview, a database to make sure that duplicated documents aren't provided, NEW forms to weed out frauds, as well as make sure that the applicant will be a contributing member of American society, and make sure that the applicant isn't a terrorist.
What does this all mean for IR1/CR1 and K1 applicants?
If you are a citizen of Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Sudan, Iran, Libya, and Somalia:
Regardless of whatever visa you might have (IR1, CR1, K1, B2), you will not be allowed to enter the United States for the next 90 days. What does this mean for existing visa applications? Hard to say, but it seems very likely that they will be held up or delayed.
If you are from another country:
Within 30 days a new list of "problem" countries may be released. These countries will be ones which were found not to provide "sufficient" information (whatever the hell that means) to adjudicate a visa petition. Such countries will have 60 days to "fix" these problems and if they don't they will also join the banned list.
On top of all this a new screening program has been ordered to start. It's hard to say what exactly it will mean for existing applications or even when/if it may be implemented (a lot of what's being asked for seems to already exist). But this NEW screening program will apply to people of ALL countries (whatever it is and whenever it may start). "
How does he sign these orders so quickly? I thought that people said don't worry the president doesn't have that much power. And my question is why and what is he basing this all on?
Or should I just not try to make sense of it?
I ACTUALLY HAVE AN ANSWER.
I called my dad tonight because he's an immigration lawyer and I wanted his take on this. He actually gave me even more info. His good friend is a professor of constitutional law at Cornell and wrote an article that he spoke to my dad about. Apparently the EOs likely aren't legal. He isn't following proper procedure and they are probably unconstitutional. BUT the courts are reluctant to limit executive power so they probably won't do anything about it.
For sure there will be lawsuits (ACLU SPLC etc) but the courts are likely, according to my dad's friend, to side with Trump. Unless it's at the state level and then, like, Cali and NY and whatever will go against.
How bout them checks and balances everyone keeps talking about. This is flucking maddening.
Welcome to the Fascist States of Ameritrump everyone.
This right here! This is insanity!
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| Posted 1/27/17 10:56 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11486 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Ban of immigrants
This is horrifying  . What's the next group he's going to go after?
I have read some reports of green card holders being denied.
This ban doesn't even make sense by only selecting some Muslim countries (the whole idea is wrong, but you get my point). The whole thing is disgusting.
An Iranian director, nominated for best foreign film, is not being let in for the Oscars. I'm going to guess the Oscars is going to be a tad bit political.
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| Posted 1/28/17 6:44 AM |
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stinger
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 4971 total posts
Name:
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Re: Ban of immigrants
Posted by klingklang77
This is horrifying . What's the next group he's going to go after?
I have read some reports of green card holders being denied.
This ban doesn't even make sense by only selecting some Muslim countries (the whole idea is wrong, but you get my point). The whole thing is disgusting.
An Iranian director, nominated for best foreign film, is not being let in for the Oscars. I'm going to guess the Oscars is going to be a tad bit political.
Daily news reported it already happening at airports. And isnt it only for 120 days. Then what?
Message edited 1/28/2017 8:44:15 AM.
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| Posted 1/28/17 7:16 AM |
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MrsT809
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 12167 total posts
Name:
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Re: Ban of immigrants
From the Times, "He ordered that Christians and others from minority religions be granted priority over Muslims."
How is this not unconstitutional?! WTF
article
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| Posted 1/28/17 7:19 AM |
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LIRascal
drama. daily.
Member since 3/11 7287 total posts
Name:
Michelle
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Ban of immigrants
Look up #muslimban on twitter
I can't
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| Posted 1/28/17 8:38 AM |
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Diane
Hope is Contagious....catch it
Member since 5/05 30683 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Ban of immigrants
I do agree about keeping the refugees out. Look what happened to Germany. They took them in and they get bombed. Im sorry, but we have to protect ourselves. Do we really want another 9/11??
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| Posted 1/28/17 8:48 AM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11486 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Ban of immigrants
If you are going to speak on terrorism in Germany, get your facts straight. Blanket statements and simplistic knowledge will get you nowhere. Please read up on the situation before commenting with "alternative facts."
Adopting a ban like this is going to open up more homegrown attacks, IMO.
"The executive order, which Mr. Trump said was part of an extreme vetting plan to keep out “radical Islamic terrorists,” also established a religious test for refugees from Muslim nations: He ordered that Christians and others from minority religions be granted priority over Muslims"
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html?action=Click&contentCollection=BreakingNews&contentID=64850118&pgtype=article&_r=0
These are people who have been vetted, people with visas, and people with green cards. It's so much different than letting in refugees.
Message edited 1/28/2017 9:14:24 AM.
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| Posted 1/28/17 9:00 AM |
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stinger
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 4971 total posts
Name:
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Re: Ban of immigrants
Posted by Diane
I do agree about keeping the refugees out. Look what happened to Germany. They took them in and they get bombed. Im sorry, but we have to protect ourselves. Do we really want another 9/11??
We are probably going to have another 9/11 BECAUSE of Trump. Dont you see that?
The 9/11 leaders weren't even from the countries that are on the ban list.
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| Posted 1/28/17 9:18 AM |
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JME78
LIF Adult
Member since 11/09 3672 total posts
Name:
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Re: Ban of immigrants
Posted by Diane
I do agree about keeping the refugees out. Look what happened to Germany. They took them in and they get bombed. Im sorry, but we have to protect ourselves. Do we really want another 9/11??
Well most of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudis - but there is no restriction on Saudi Arabia because Donald has business interests there.
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| Posted 1/28/17 12:26 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11486 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Ban of immigrants
And now Green Card holders (ETA: from those countries) are now officially included in that. Is he going to round them up next????
I'm horrified. As a person with something like a green card here, I would be shaking if I was told I could not leave (and come back), even if I weren't one of the people in the "banned" countries. I was nervous when I had to renew my passport and I couldn't leave while waiting for a new one.
This gets worse and worse each day.
Message edited 1/28/2017 12:46:49 PM.
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| Posted 1/28/17 12:32 PM |
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Bugaboo
Relax!
Member since 5/05 2133 total posts
Name:
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Re: Ban of immigrants
This ban is going to backfire big time. This will only enrage and encourage more Muslims to be radicalized, especially homegrown terrorists. The refugee vetting in the US is extensive. The process takes 9 months to 2 years with extensive background checks, interviews, etc. across multiple US agencies. The refugees that the US have taken in are people who are seeking safety from terrorists. Now we turn our backs on these men, women and children so they can be slaughtered and murdered. This is UNAMERICAN, UNCHRISTIAN, INHUMANE!
Why is it that only half of Americans remember the past? History is repeating itself. 
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| Posted 1/28/17 2:03 PM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Ban of immigrants
Posted by Diane
I do agree about keeping the refugees out. Look what happened to Germany. They took them in and they get bombed. Im sorry, but we have to protect ourselves. Do we really want another 9/11??
Are you flucking serious? Why don't you open up a history book on 9/11. Or actually take the time and learn about the refugees and the extensive vetting process.
Unreal.
Get your head out of the sand.
Refugees
Message edited 1/28/2017 2:06:40 PM.
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| Posted 1/28/17 2:04 PM |
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Re: Ban of immigrants
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by Diane
I do agree about keeping the refugees out. Look what happened to Germany. They took them in and they get bombed. Im sorry, but we have to protect ourselves. Do we really want another 9/11??
Are you flucking serious? Why don't you open up a history book on 9/11. Or actually take the time and learn about the refugees and the extensive vetting process.
Unreal.
Get your head out of the sand.
Refugees
http://www.boredpanda.com/where-children-sleep-syrian-refugee-crisis-photography-magnus-wennman/
How anyone can look at those pics in the link I posted and read the captions and want to keep out these poor kids ...
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| Posted 1/28/17 2:07 PM |
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Bugaboo
Relax!
Member since 5/05 2133 total posts
Name:
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Re: Ban of immigrants
Posted by Diane
I do agree about keeping the refugees out. Look what happened to Germany. They took them in and they get bombed. Im sorry, but we have to protect ourselves. Do we really want another 9/11??
You show your ignorance time and time again. Don't you see this ban will make us LESS safe? 
Message edited 1/28/2017 2:34:00 PM.
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| Posted 1/28/17 2:10 PM |
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