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MsMBV
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Me
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Posted by Mrs-Boop
Posted by MrChristian
Well unfortunately rooms like this are necessary, however, they should be used properly. They are a great resource when a student may become violent and possibly hurt himself or others.
I'm sorry I disagree...locking a kid in a closet doesn't solve a problem. You remove the child from the classroom and seek immediate help..never lock them in a closet..they are kids not animals.
This boy was autistic..he was locked in a blue padded 5x5 room..alone. He is prone to seizures and when he has them stops breathing...the what if possibilities are crazy...if this boy had a seizure in their alone..he could have died. NO child should ever ever be left alone in a situation like that..especially a special needs child like this boy..who doesn't even understand what is going on!!
ETA- I've only been teaching autistic children this year..but one of the first things I was taught was how to restrain them if they have an episode...there are ways other that shoving them in a closet. And places like Rosemary Kennedy have more than one teacher in a classroom..so there is no excuse for what was done. Seems they weren't trained too well!!
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Posted 5/26/06 7:37 AM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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momAGAIN
so outrageous
Member since 7/05 3853 total posts
Name:
TJ
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
I saw that lastnight...as a mom of a disabled son it scares the crap out of me!   
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| Posted 5/26/06 7:41 AM |
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Pumpkin1
LIF Adult
Member since 12/05 3715 total posts
Name:
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
I don't care how "properly" they're used...they don't BELONG in a school, where LEARNING is supposed to be taking place...NOT treatment such as this "room" provides...in that case, remove the kid from the school altogether, so that he/she is not disrupting the rest of the class, and/or possibly causing physical harm to him/herself or others!
Although it may be difficult for you to understand, rooms like that are necessary for some children but should only be used in extreme situations where that child is at risk to himself/others and there is no other way to control the situation. Unless you are familiar with handling a child of this nature, you really should not judge.
That said, it appears they are using the room as punishment as opposed to protection and that is just outright wrong.
Message edited 5/26/2006 9:28:50 AM.
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| Posted 5/26/06 9:28 AM |
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Pumpkin1
LIF Adult
Member since 12/05 3715 total posts
Name:
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Posted by Mrs-Boop
This boy was autistic..he was locked in a blue padded 5x5 room..alone. He is prone to seizures and when he has them stops breathing...the what if possibilities are crazy...if this boy had a seizure in their alone..he could have died. NO child should ever ever be left alone in a situation like that..especially a special needs child like this boy..who doesn't even understand what is going on!!
ETA- I've only been teaching autistic children this year..but one of the first things I was taught was how to restrain them if they have an episode...there are ways other that shoving them in a closet. And places like Rosemary Kennedy have more than one teacher in a classroom..so there is no excuse for what was done. Seems they weren't trained too well!!
My son has PDD and I have read quite a bit about situations like this. With children on the autistic spectrum, it has been reported that when these children have tantrums they can inflict severe harm, such as scratching their own or someone else's eyes out. These children have communication disorders and you cannot just remove them from the situation and calm them down. Putting a child like that is a room (that should be monitored at all times) is the only way to handle such a situation. Like I said earlier, raising and teaching children with these disorders cannot be handled in the way that you would with a normal child. But, like I said in the earlier post, such rooms should be used solely for protection and not punishment.
Message edited 5/26/2006 9:35:10 AM.
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| Posted 5/26/06 9:34 AM |
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MrChristian
LIF Toddler
Member since 9/05 434 total posts
Name:
Christian
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Okay I think I may have been misunderstood. I in no way meant that children should be locked in a room and left alone. That is reprehensible. It's a school, not a prison. But yes, these rooms are quite beneficial when used in the correct manor. I used to work with students who would often become quite violent (bang their head, throw themselves on the floor, etc.) and the soft room is great so that they do not hurt themselves. Someone should be in the room with them at all times.
I agree that what was done was terrible and I'm sorry that you would think that I feel throwing a child in a "closet" is a quick and easy solution. I don't think I ever said that. I have worked with some severely disabled populations and all I meant to say was that these rooms do serve a purpose, however, they need to be utilized appropriately. Fair enough?
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| Posted 5/26/06 1:41 PM |
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MrChristian
LIF Toddler
Member since 9/05 434 total posts
Name:
Christian
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Posted by MrsERod
Posted by MrChristian
Well unfortunately rooms like this are necessary, however, they should be used properly. They are a great resource when a student may become violent and possibly hurt himself or others.
I don't care how "properly" they're used...they don't BELONG in a school, where LEARNING is supposed to be taking place...NOT treatment such as this "room" provides...in that case, remove the kid from the school altogether, so that he/she is not disrupting the rest of the class, and/or possibly causing physical harm to him/herself or others!
I think you have been misinformed. This is a school that caters to students with a number of disabilities and has the appropriate therapeutic staff and facilities to help these students. I'm sorry you feel that a student's behavior may be "disrupting" the rest of the class. These children have already been "removed from their school altogether." That is why they are in such a therapeutic setting.
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| Posted 5/26/06 1:47 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Posted by Melbernai
They are showing a piece right now on a boy who was locked in a padded closet/room with no lights on over 40 times for refusing to go to cooking class. The student has special needs and the parents went to the school one day and he was there all huddled in a corner.
I interviewed there before I got my job in the city and also know someone who works there!
I am shocked!!! 
i would highly doubt that is the true story...
I think that you have to hear the ENTIRE story before making any kind of decisions on what is "cruelty"
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| Posted 5/26/06 4:30 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
And not for nothing...
an autistic child...WITH SEIZURES can certainly be placed in a room like this...
And they propbably shut off the lights to PROTECT HIM...
Really....people should KNOW ALL of the facts before jumping to assumptions
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| Posted 5/26/06 4:34 PM |
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My2Boys
Love.
Member since 10/05 4796 total posts
Name:
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Posted by Redhead
And not for nothing...
an autistic child...WITH SEIZURES can certainly be placed in a room like this...
And they propbably shut off the lights to PROTECT HIM...
Really....people should KNOW ALL of the facts before jumping to assumptions
IMO, a child, who has a history of seizures, should NEVER be unsupervised. Period. Even if the story is grossly exaggerated and he was placed in the room once instead of 40 times. Once is still too many.
While I've not seen a picture of the room, I imagine it's empty, but for a chair and/or table. Just what is turning off the light "protecting" him from?
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| Posted 5/26/06 5:28 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Posted by My2Boys
Posted by Redhead
And not for nothing...
an autistic child...WITH SEIZURES can certainly be placed in a room like this...
And they propbably shut off the lights to PROTECT HIM...
Really....people should KNOW ALL of the facts before jumping to assumptions
IMO, a child, who has a history of seizures, should NEVER be unsupervised. Period. Even if the story is grossly exaggerated and he was placed in the room once instead of 40 times. Once is still too many.
While I've not seen a picture of the room, I imagine it's empty, but for a chair and/or table. Just what is turning off the light "protecting" him from?
I don't believe he was "unsupervised"
I think that is BS
Once isn't too many when it is PROTECTING HIM
Did he have a seizure? NO
I have seen PLENTY of these rooms...
And for some people...they are a saving grace...
A much safer place for them to be...
AND as far as the lights are concerned...
there are individuals who can stare into lights to PURPOSEFULLY cause them to have a seizure...
SO THEREFORE....having the lights off would be better...
These rooms aren't pitch black
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| Posted 5/26/06 5:35 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
And isn'tit interestingly convenient that they cannot disclose ANY information about this kids behavior...
And ladies....if you think this technique is bad...
You really don't know much about the field..
If done appropriately....it is a great asset...
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| Posted 5/26/06 5:36 PM |
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Melbernai
I am a lucky Momma!
Member since 7/05 15652 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
The part that bothers me the most is that the parents weren't aware that this was going on. I understand if a room like this needs to be used, but shouldn't the parents be aware of it if it is going on?
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| Posted 5/26/06 5:48 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Posted by Melbernai
The part that bothers me the most is that the parents weren't aware that this was going on. I understand if a room like this needs to be used, but shouldn't the parents be aware of it if it is going on?
Yes..this is true. Parental consent should be gotten.
I bet they knew
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| Posted 5/26/06 5:49 PM |
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sunny
Life is good!
Member since 5/05 8369 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Posted by Redhead
And isn'tit interestingly convenient that they cannot disclose ANY information about this kids behavior...
And ladies....if you think this technique is bad...
You really don't know much about the field..
If done appropriately....it is a great asset...
I was going to say this when I saw your posts. Not all kids that go to that school are special needs like autism, etc. Some are just severe behavioral problems and violent kids.
Sometimes a room like that is totally necessary for the safety of the kid and everyone else around.
Also, I agree we only heard one side of the story- these people are suing so of course what they are saying is awful sounding.
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| Posted 5/26/06 5:52 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Posted by Mrs-Boop
ETA- I've only been teaching autistic children this year..but one of the first things I was taught was how to restrain them if they have an episode...there are ways other that shoving them in a closet. And places like Rosemary Kennedy have more than one teacher in a classroom..so there is no excuse for what was done. Seems they weren't trained too well!!
Well....in all honesty...HALF of those "techniques" never work on a violent person...
Usually some adapted form of it will
AND on a truly aggressive, autistic person those SCIP techniques (to which i am a Master of..literally) can be much more harmful than helpful...
I have been working with this population over 10 years...
sometimes a room that they can not hurt themselves and NOT be restrained...is the BEST choice...
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| Posted 5/26/06 5:53 PM |
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sunny
Life is good!
Member since 5/05 8369 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Posted by Redhead
Well....in all honesty...HALF of those "techniques" never work on a violent person...
Usually some adapted form of it will
AND on a truly aggressive, autistic person those SCIP techniques (to which i am a Master of..literally) can be much more harmful than helpful...
I have been working with this population over 10 years...
sometimes a room that they can not hurt themselves and NOT be restrained...is the BEST choice...
I agree. However if it is true that he was put in there 40 times, he probably needs a higher level of care or a more specialized program.
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| Posted 5/26/06 6:02 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Posted by sunny
Posted by Redhead
Well....in all honesty...HALF of those "techniques" never work on a violent person...
Usually some adapted form of it will
AND on a truly aggressive, autistic person those SCIP techniques (to which i am a Master of..literally) can be much more harmful than helpful...
I have been working with this population over 10 years...
sometimes a room that they can not hurt themselves and NOT be restrained...is the BEST choice...
I agree. However if it is true that he was put in there 40 times, he probably needs a higher level of care or a more specialized program.
yes true...
but again..i think that we need to know the whole story of this
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| Posted 5/26/06 6:04 PM |
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groovypeg
:)
Member since 5/05 2423 total posts
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Before any child is given a time out, a functional assessment and analysis should be conducted to determine the function of the behavior (whether it be aggression, speaking out, etc). To simply put a child in a time out room again and again without knowing WHY the child is engaging in the behavior is dangerous.
it appears from reading the article in newsday and the tv clip that they are giving him a time out b/c he didnt want to go to class (an avoidant behavior). therefore, in theory, they may be inadvertantly reinforcing his avoidant behavior. (i am just offering a guess here based on very limited info.)
Sometimes it is necessary to remove a child because they are being so disruptive to the others in the classroom or are dangerous to themselves and others. At my school, sometimes I have had to remove a child, gain control over the situation, and then bring them back to class ASAP. If this occurs more than 2x, then we have to take some data to see what is going on to figure out why the child is engaging in that particular behavior.
If a child is acting out to avoid or escape a situation, you can potentially reinforce that behavior by giving them a time out.
i agree with a previous poster who said that RK doesnt have a good behavioral support system. A good school would come up with a behavioral intervention plan based on functional assessments and analysis.
Message edited 5/26/2006 6:23:45 PM.
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| Posted 5/26/06 6:21 PM |
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Redhead
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Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Posted by groovypeg
Before any child is given a time out, a functional assessment and analysis should be conducted to determine the function of the behavior (whether it be aggression, speaking out, etc). To simply put a child in a time out room again and again without knowing WHY the child is engaging in the behavior is dangerous.
it appears from reading the article in newsday and the tv clip that they are giving him a time out b/c he didnt want to go to class (an avoidant behavior). therefore, in theory, they may be inadvertantly reinforcing his avoidant behavior.
Sometimes it is necessary to remove a child because they are being so disruptive to the others in the classroom or are dangerous to themselves and others. At my school, sometimes I have had to remove a child, gain control over the situation, and then bring them back to class ASAP. If this occurs more than 2x, then we have to take some data to see what is going on to figure out why the child is engaging in that particular behavior.
If a child is acting out to avoid or escape a situation, you can potentially reinforce that behavior by giving them a time out.
i agree with a previous poster who said that RK doesnt have a good behavioral support system. A good school would come up with a behavioral intervention plan based on functional assessments and analysis.
And how do you know one wasn't done?
Not that i don't agree....But you seem to be assuming a lot.
AGAIN....very little is known and we know that the media LOVES to eat this stuff up and skew the story...
ESPECIALLY when there is no info given from BOVES...
And it is true that not all places are up to par with functional assesments...
But again...since i don't know about what WAS done....i am reserving judgement
I have found it is soooo easy to point figures at agencies like this
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| Posted 5/26/06 6:25 PM |
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groovypeg
:)
Member since 5/05 2423 total posts
Name:
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Posted by Redhead
Posted by groovypeg
Before any child is given a time out, a functional assessment and analysis should be conducted to determine the function of the behavior (whether it be aggression, speaking out, etc). To simply put a child in a time out room again and again without knowing WHY the child is engaging in the behavior is dangerous.
it appears from reading the article in newsday and the tv clip that they are giving him a time out b/c he didnt want to go to class (an avoidant behavior). therefore, in theory, they may be inadvertantly reinforcing his avoidant behavior.
Sometimes it is necessary to remove a child because they are being so disruptive to the others in the classroom or are dangerous to themselves and others. At my school, sometimes I have had to remove a child, gain control over the situation, and then bring them back to class ASAP. If this occurs more than 2x, then we have to take some data to see what is going on to figure out why the child is engaging in that particular behavior.
If a child is acting out to avoid or escape a situation, you can potentially reinforce that behavior by giving them a time out.
i agree with a previous poster who said that RK doesnt have a good behavioral support system. A good school would come up with a behavioral intervention plan based on functional assessments and analysis.
And how do you know one wasn't done?
Not that i don't agree....But you seem to be assuming a lot.
AGAIN....very little is known and we know that the media LOVES to eat this stuff up and skew the story...
ESPECIALLY when there is no info given from BOVES...
And it is true that not all places are up to par with functional assesments...
But again...since i don't know about what WAS done....i am reserving judgement
I have found it is soooo easy to point figures at agencies like this
youre absolutely right, i dont know.
BUT if it true that he was placed in time out b/c for not wanting to go to class, then a fx assessment would show that time out is not an appropriate procedure to be used. so, based on that, thats why i assumed an assessment wasnt done.
but you are right, there are three sides to every story, the boys family, the school and the truth.
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| Posted 5/26/06 6:43 PM |
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sunny
Life is good!
Member since 5/05 8369 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
One thing I do know for sure is that I work with that program all the time and it is actually a really great program and they do a lot of good.
I don't know what happened in this particular case but in general it is a good school and a lot of the kids really like it.
So it is not really fair to slam the whole school because of accusations when we have not heard both sides.
Message edited 5/26/2006 6:47:26 PM.
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| Posted 5/26/06 6:46 PM |
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groovypeg
:)
Member since 5/05 2423 total posts
Name:
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
we probably wont hear the schools side, unfortunately. i would think if they said something it would be a violation of that students' privacy?
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| Posted 5/26/06 6:50 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Posted by groovypeg
youre absolutely right, i dont know.
BUT if it true that he was placed in time out b/c for not wanting to go to class, then a fx assessment would show that time out is not an appropriate procedure to be used. so, based on that, thats why i assumed an assessment wasnt done.
but you are right, there are three sides to every story, the boys family, the school and the truth.
of course...
but the article i read said that hw was also aggressive toward his peers...
And if he is aggressive towards peers then i am sure he would be aggressive towards staff. And sometimes to protect the welfare of other people...removing him, even if it is not the functional way to go, is a must to protect the other students and himself...
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| Posted 5/26/06 6:51 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
And people dont realize just how strong mentally disabled people, including kids, can be.
The smallest, thinest of people can take 5 men to hold down...
amazing actually
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| Posted 5/26/06 6:53 PM |
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groovypeg
:)
Member since 5/05 2423 total posts
Name:
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Re: Channel 5 news - BOCES school!
Posted by Redhead
Posted by groovypeg
youre absolutely right, i dont know.
BUT if it true that he was placed in time out b/c for not wanting to go to class, then a fx assessment would show that time out is not an appropriate procedure to be used. so, based on that, thats why i assumed an assessment wasnt done.
but you are right, there are three sides to every story, the boys family, the school and the truth.
of course...
but the article i read said that hw was also aggressive toward his peers...
And if he is aggressive towards peers then i am sure he would be aggressive towards staff. And sometimes to protect the welfare of other people...removing him, even if it is not the functional way to go, is a must to protect the other students and himself...
i agree! i just reread the newsday article and saw that it mentioned aggression towards others.
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| Posted 5/26/06 6:56 PM |
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