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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
Posted by SerraMaMa
Strange.... I got my car seat installed by the town of hempstead police they faced my seat foward , ds is 8 months but 22 pounds. He said there is a misconception! it's 1 yr OR the weight.... DS has been facing foward since 6 months when we put the big seat in. I also remember him saying if they face rear and the legs are hitting the seat , god forbid of a car accident the damage can be very harmful.
Now that is SCARY. Please if your son is younger than 1 year turn him to face backwards as long as you can stand it. There was another post about it recently where I posted a video from youtube and you can easily find them yourself. Bottom line-a childs head is proportionately much heavier than their neck is strong. If you get into a rear crach(the most common crash by the way) your child's head snaps forward and you can imagine the consequences.
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Posted 5/6/10 5:04 PM  |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
The reason that they recommend RF longer now has to do with the energy loads placed on the neck of a forward facing child. A child's vertebrae are still in 3 pieces and don't become one piece until between 3 and 6 years of age. Prior to the vertebrae becoming one piece, the spine can stretch up to 2 inches. The spinal cord, however, can still only stretch 1/4".
No child has ever broken a leg in an accident rear facing. There are actually statistics that show broken legs are more common in FF seats, along with broken necks. Older children who are verbal enough to express their opinions actually tend to prefer RF because it gives them somewhere to put their legs. FF seats tend to make their legs fall asleep as they just tend to dangle there.
There are seats available that allow for more leg room, like the TrueFit, MyRide 65, Radian etc. Some seats are more shallow.
This is a nice article http://carseatqueen.com/rf.aspx
www.joelsjourney.org is a real life example of a young boy who was in an accident at 18 months old in a FF car seat and suffered a broken neck.
Here is a video of a FF and RF seat in a crash test http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8mFsXNXOLw
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| Posted 5/6/10 5:14 PM |
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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
Posted by tarabelle99
The reason that they recommend RF longer now has to do with the energy loads placed on the neck of a forward facing child. A child's vertebrae are still in 3 pieces and don't become one piece until between 3 and 6 years of age. Prior to the vertebrae becoming one piece, the spine can stretch up to 2 inches. The spinal cord, however, can still only stretch 1/4".
No child has ever broken a leg in an accident rear facing. There are actually statistics that show broken legs are more common in FF seats, along with broken necks. Older children who are verbal enough to express their opinions actually tend to prefer RF because it gives them somewhere to put their legs. FF seats tend to make their legs fall asleep as they just tend to dangle there.
There are seats available that allow for more leg room, like the TrueFit, MyRide 65, Radian etc. Some seats are more shallow.
This is a nice article http://carseatqueen.com/rf.aspx
www.joelsjourney.org is a real life example of a young boy who was in an accident at 18 months old in a FF car seat and suffered a broken neck.
Here is a video of a FF and RF seat in a crash test http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8mFsXNXOLw
Great links thanks. Joelsjourney is what convinced me that my kids will be rear facing as long as possible.
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| Posted 5/6/10 5:21 PM |
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Lillykat
going along for the ride...
Member since 5/05 16253 total posts
Name:
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
Posted by SerraMaMa
Strange.... I got my car seat installed by the town of hempstead police they faced my seat foward , ds is 8 months but 22 pounds. He said there is a misconception! it's 1 yr OR the weight.... DS has been facing foward since 6 months when we put the big seat in. I also remember him saying if they face rear and the legs are hitting the seat , god forbid of a car accident the damage can be very harmful.
That is very scary!! Sounds like someone didn't have a clue what they were doing? Was this location listed on the car seat state inspection locations or did you just go to a police station and ask for help?
If you FM Carseatsafety he should be able to tell you or help you. I would make sure to turn that seat around ASAP.
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| Posted 5/6/10 5:22 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
Posted by SerraMaMa
Strange.... I got my car seat installed by the town of hempstead police they faced my seat foward , ds is 8 months but 22 pounds. He said there is a misconception! it's 1 yr OR the weight.... DS has been facing foward since 6 months when we put the big seat in. I also remember him saying if they face rear and the legs are hitting the seat , god forbid of a car accident the damage can be very harmful.
If the officer putting in your seat was a CPST he needs to be reported to SafeKids for giving you that information.
Many (most, really) police officers actually are NOT trained to be CPST's which is a 5 day course. It doesn't sound like he was a certified tech.
What possible damage could a child suffer sitting rear facing? Did he say? I mean, I can only think a broken leg at worst? (even though there has NEVER been a documented instance of this) FF could lead to a broken neck (and potentially death).
Broken leg? Cast it. Broken neck? Casket.
RF car seats are designed to "cocoon" a child. A child's legs will bend in towards the child in an accident..because, well, legs and hips are designed to bend.
Children in Sweden RF until 4-5 years of age and approximately 55lbs. The rate of deaths due to accident in Sweden is in the single digits (some accidents are just unsurvivable in any position) and they've done numerous long term studies which show that RF is safest up through age 4.
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| Posted 5/6/10 6:01 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
Posted by tarabelle99
Posted by SerraMaMa
Strange.... I got my car seat installed by the town of hempstead police they faced my seat foward , ds is 8 months but 22 pounds. He said there is a misconception! it's 1 yr OR the weight.... DS has been facing foward since 6 months when we put the big seat in. I also remember him saying if they face rear and the legs are hitting the seat , god forbid of a car accident the damage can be very harmful.
If the officer putting in your seat was a CPST he needs to be reported to SafeKids for giving you that information.
Many (most, really) police officers actually are NOT trained to be CPST's which is a 5 day course. It doesn't sound like he was a certified tech.
What possible damage could a child suffer sitting rear facing? Did he say? I mean, I can only think a broken leg at worst? (even though there has NEVER been a documented instance of this) FF could lead to a broken neck (and potentially death).
Broken leg? Cast it. Broken neck? Casket.
RF car seats are designed to "cocoon" a child. A child's legs will bend in towards the child in an accident..because, well, legs and hips are designed to bend.
Children in Sweden RF until 4-5 years of age and approximately 55lbs. The rate of deaths due to accident in Sweden is in the single digits (some accidents are just unsurvivable in any position) and they've done numerous long term studies which show that RF is safest up through age 4.
thanks for all this info. I plan to keep KJ for rear facing as long as possible 
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| Posted 5/6/10 9:48 PM |
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A3CM
Avatar Title
Member since 9/08 3762 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
the min req are 1`year AND 20 lbs w/a new recc of 2 years RF.
do WHAT YOU are comfortable with
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| Posted 5/6/10 10:35 PM |
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NinaLemon
It's a boy!!!
Member since 10/07 6453 total posts
Name:
Jeannine
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
DS is 16 months and is still rear facing. I will keep him rear facing as long as possible.
Message edited 5/6/2010 10:51:13 PM.
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| Posted 5/6/10 10:50 PM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
Posted by MAC222
Posted by LaurenExp
I heard new recommendation is 2 years 
I just heard this too...
That's insane. My DD is way too tall to even have come remotely close to 2 years old. We switched her at about 13-14 months because her poor legs were riding up the back seat and she wasn't happy.
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| Posted 5/7/10 12:01 AM |
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SweetTooth
I'm a tired mommy!
Member since 12/05 20105 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by MAC222
Posted by LaurenExp
I heard new recommendation is 2 years
I just heard this too...
That's insane. My DD is way too tall to even have come remotely close to 2 years old. We switched her at about 13-14 months because her poor legs were riding up the back seat and she wasn't happy.
Its not insane, its a safety issue. Both my kids have their feet up on the back seat, but I know if g-forbid we got into an accident, they are in the safest position.
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| Posted 5/7/10 1:03 AM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
I agree with a PP, it is a parental decision. Every day as parents we have to make decisions based on what we feel is right for us and our situation. If this means you choose to FF at 12 months and 20lbs, this is currently acceptable practice. I put the information out for those who wish to read it. I would hate to see any child end up like Joel with a broken neck or even worse. But, I honestly don't view those parents who make the decision to FF at the minimum negatively.
My only pet peeve is regardless of what you choose for your child, make sure you are using your seat correctly. Nothing grates on me more than seeing Junior in his $300 Britax seat with the straps super loose, or worse, not even bothering to use the harness (yes, I actually had a car pass me on Sunrise one day, seat was a Britax and the child wasn't even harnessed in)
-using the top tether in FF mode
-proper installation with less than 1" of movement at the belt path
-FF: straps coming from at or ABOVE the child's shoulders.
-RF: straps coming from at or BELOW the child's shoulders
-chest clip at armpit level
-ensuring the straps are not twisted etc
- Harness should be "snug as a hug", you should not be able to pinch the harness at the shoulders. If you can, it's too loose.
-RF is generally outgrown when either of the following are met: Child's weight fully clothed exceeds the max amount the seat allows or there is less than 1" of shell above the child's head
-FF is generally outgrown when child's weight fully clothed exceeds the max amount on the seat or the tops of the ears are level with the shell
As always, check your manuals as some manufacturers have different guidelines that stray from the norm. And, please, even if you are 99% sure it is installed correctly, have it checked by a CPST.
In Nassau, you can contact Carseatsafety (Chris) at 516-571-5033 or 516-571-1893
In Suffolk, you can visit Hassell Auto Body on Rte 109 in West Babylon.
You can also locate a CPST using www.safekids.org or http://www.nhtsa.gov/cps/cpsfitting/index.cfm
This is a handy sheet for what to expect at a seatcheck
https://ssl13.cyzap.net/safekids_files/_items/skc-mr-tab9-546/docs/what_to_expect_from_a_cpst.pdf
Please ensure that the person doing your check is certified to do so.
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| Posted 5/7/10 9:17 AM |
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KangaMom
...
Member since 1/06 4593 total posts
Name:
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
2 years...
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| Posted 5/7/10 9:36 AM |
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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
Posted by SweetTooth
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by MAC222
Posted by LaurenExp
I heard new recommendation is 2 years
I just heard this too...
That's insane. My DD is way too tall to even have come remotely close to 2 years old. We switched her at about 13-14 months because her poor legs were riding up the back seat and she wasn't happy.
Its not insane, its a safety issue. Both my kids have their feet up on the back seat, but I know if g-forbid we got into an accident, they are in the safest position.
You know I don't want to start a sh!tstorm here, but these comments like it is "insane" to have your child rear-facing and the last time this was posted about someone called me "ridiculous" for wanting to keep my kids rear-facing until two, are REALLY out of line.
You know what? I think its INSANE and RIDICULOUS that someone would ignore recommendations for safety based on cranky baby or bent knees(which by the way, as pointed out by AP, are supposed to bend and asorb shock, along with hips. Necks and spines, not so much ) So there it is. NEVER would I ever call someone these names, but it seems to be OK so I figured I'd just hop on board!
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| Posted 5/7/10 10:30 AM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
Posted by DRMom
Posted by SweetTooth
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by MAC222
Posted by LaurenExp
I heard new recommendation is 2 years
I just heard this too...
That's insane. My DD is way too tall to even have come remotely close to 2 years old. We switched her at about 13-14 months because her poor legs were riding up the back seat and she wasn't happy.
Its not insane, its a safety issue. Both my kids have their feet up on the back seat, but I know if g-forbid we got into an accident, they are in the safest position.
You know I don't want to start a sh!tstorm here, but these comments like it is "insane" to have your child rear-facing and the last time this was posted about someone called me "ridiculous" for wanting to keep my kids rear-facing until two, are REALLY out of line.
You know what? I think its INSANE and RIDICULOUS that someone would ignore recommendations for safety based on cranky baby or bent knees(which by the way, as pointed out by AP, are supposed to bend and asorb shock, along with hips. Necks and spines, not so much ) So there it is. NEVER would I ever call someone these names, but it seems to be OK so I figured I'd just hop on board!
you rock, mel
 
it is not insane or ridiculous. I cannot commit to keeping KJ rear facing for 2 years, I plan to play it by ear
but I do not think it is insane or silly or ridiculous to keep them rear facing
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| Posted 5/7/10 10:34 AM |
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MrsS2005
Mom of 3
Member since 11/05 13118 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
Posted by pinkandblue
Posted by SerraMaMa
Strange.... I got my car seat installed by the town of hempstead police they faced my seat foward , ds is 8 months but 22 pounds. He said there is a misconception! it's 1 yr OR the weight.... DS has been facing foward since 6 months when we put the big seat in. I also remember him saying if they face rear and the legs are hitting the seat , god forbid of a car accident the damage can be very harmful.
honestly, that is against everything I have EVER heard
ask your ped, it is one year AND 20 lbs
you should never put them foward facing before one year
there is info out there that in a collision, the impact is MUCH worse for a child with little to no neck strength when they are forward facing
ITA. I'd be really concerned that someone who is installing your seat gave you that advice. Is this person even licensed to check and install car seats?
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| Posted 5/7/10 3:42 PM |
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SerraMaMa
LIF Adult
Member since 10/07 982 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
Yup they did! and he was a captain who installed it , who has been doing this for years. Also, the woman I booked the appointment through stated that it varies according to the child, Her daughter has always been very small and underweight and was rear facing up until 1.5 yrs old and her son was a "bull" and was turned foward at 6months. Honestly, I'm not the expert.... I didn't do the installation and my son is happy, so I would never want to turn it backwards as of now. He would be so confused, he has been foward facing for 2 months. It's also been life changing for him and our trips! So there are pros and cons to everything.
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| Posted 5/10/10 7:12 AM |
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SerraMaMa
LIF Adult
Member since 10/07 982 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
yes licensed and has been doing this for years....
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| Posted 5/10/10 7:12 AM |
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SerraMaMa
LIF Adult
Member since 10/07 982 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
Thanks!  i'm leaving him as is because i'm not the expert.
otherwise I would have installed it but then again i'm a rule breaker, he has also slept on his belly since 6 weeks .....I do what works FOR ME
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| Posted 5/10/10 7:15 AM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
Posted by SerraMaMa
yes licensed and has been doing this for years....
What this officer told goes against the recommendations of SafeKids, NHTSA, the AAP and every CPST I've ever encountered. Since Safekids is the organization charged with certifying techs, I again ask that you report the officer to them so he can be retrained properly in best practices.
And what he told you is actually, technically, illegal. NY has a proper use clause. You can see it here http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/dmvfaqs.htm as they defer to the manufacturer's specifications for height, weight, etc.
There is NO convertible seat on the market today that does not specify that the child must be at LEAST 1 year old to forward face.
By blatantly ignoring the manufacturer's recommendation and the bare minimums put into place by every agency out there, the officer installing your car seat is putting your child's life in danger and advising you to do something which is technically illegal.
I implore you to please call CarSeatSafety/Chris at (516) 571-1893 and have your seat reinspected and again, ask that you report the officer to SafeKids NY.
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| Posted 5/10/10 8:24 AM |
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CarSeatSafety
LIF Adolescent
Member since 3/09 689 total posts
Name:
CarSeatChris
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
I am sorry but I have had computer problems and was unable to get online before today. This topic is the most important one in recent times. This is the main fact:
DO NOT TURN A CHILD FORWARD FACING AT ONE!!!!
This has not be the advice for more than 5 years and is a misconception. For years now the recommendation is as long as possible and the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends 2 years.
This is not always possible, but a child MUST stay rear facing beyond 1 years old and 20 pounds.
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| Posted 5/15/10 11:54 AM |
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MrsS2005
Mom of 3
Member since 11/05 13118 total posts
Name:
B
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
Posted by SerraMaMa
Thanks! i'm leaving him as is because i'm not the expert.
otherwise I would have installed it but then again i'm a rule breaker, he has also slept on his belly since 6 weeks .....I do what works FOR ME
You may not be the expert, but you have plenty of posters telling you that the "expert" you went to gave you completely inaccurate information. Obviously you can choose to do what you want, but I wonder how many parents unknowingly follow this person's advice and potentially put their child at risk of serious injury.
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| Posted 5/16/10 11:16 AM |
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Xelindrya
Mommy's little YouTube Star!
Member since 8/05 14470 total posts
Name:
Veronica
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
..
Message edited 5/16/2010 11:26:28 AM.
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| Posted 5/16/10 11:25 AM |
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SweetTooth
I'm a tired mommy!
Member since 12/05 20105 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
Posted by MrsS2005
Posted by SerraMaMa
Thanks! i'm leaving him as is because i'm not the expert.
otherwise I would have installed it but then again i'm a rule breaker, he has also slept on his belly since 6 weeks .....I do what works FOR ME
You may not be the expert, but you have plenty of posters telling you that the "expert" you went to gave you completely inaccurate information. Obviously you can choose to do what you want, but I wonder how many parents unknowingly follow this person's advice and potentially put their child at risk of serious injury.
ITA. PLEASE turn your DS to rear facing and PLEASE report the person who gave you the wrong information. He is putting SO many babies at risk by doing this.
We all may not be "experts" but we all have experience and have read and know the guidelines. Plus, our resident expert, Car seat safety Chris has also given you the same information.
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| Posted 5/16/10 11:27 AM |
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jellybean78
:)
Member since 8/06 13103 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
I turned DD at a little over one but she was way over 20lbs. Honestly I kind of regret turning her so early. I wasn't as aware of the benefits of RF as I am now. The next baby will stay RF as long as possible...2 or 3 or whenever they absolutely can't anymore. After reading up I rather have a kid with broken legs then a broken neck God forbid I were to ever get in a car accident. I would never ever turn an infant FF before a year.
The only reason I would ever consider turning my next DC right after a year and over 20lbs is if they were inconsolable RF...like screaming ALL the time (not just a few times) to the point it makes it too distracting to drive. Other than that I would keep RF as long as possible.
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| Posted 5/16/10 2:05 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Convertible car seats. At what point do you face them forward?
Posted by CarSeatSafety
I am sorry but I have had computer problems and was unable to get online before today. This topic is the most important one in recent times. This is the main fact:
DO NOT TURN A CHILD FORWARD FACING AT ONE!!!!
This has not be the advice for more than 5 years and is a misconception. For years now the recommendation is as long as possible and the American Academy of Pediatrics recommends 2 years.
This is not always possible, but a child MUST stay rear facing beyond 1 years old and 20 pounds.
Welcome back! You really are missed when you aren't on here for a while! 
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| Posted 5/17/10 7:31 AM |
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