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Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
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MissJones
I need a nap!
Member since 5/05 22136 total posts
Name:
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Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
They didn't take away the ability to have an abortion. They took away the ability to have an abortion tion in a safe, sterile environment with clean tools and knowledgeable staff. I hope they aren't fooling themselves thinking abortions will be few and far between. Where there's a will, there's a way.
I'm pro choice. Not pro abortion. But pro-give a woman making the decision to do it a safe place to do it.
Message edited 5/20/2019 11:04:06 AM.
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Posted 5/20/19 11:03 AM  |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by MissJones
They didn't take away the ability to have an abortion. They took away the ability to have an abortion tion in a safe, sterile environment with clean tools and knowledgeable staff. I hope they aren't fooling themselves thinking abortions will be few and far between. Where there's a will, there's a way.
I'm pro choice. Not pro abortion. But pro-give a woman making the decision to do it a safe place to do it.
Exactly. Before Roe v. Wade people still got abortions. A lot more people died getting them though, or had serious issues.
That's what scares me too
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| Posted 5/20/19 11:11 AM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by lululu
Posted by Lucky09
I also wanted to address your statement that women have abortions as birth control. No woman that has had an abortion makes the decision lightly.
Sometimes birth control fails. Sometimes they have no health insurance for birth control or no access to it, Sometimes women don’t have supportive jobs (meaning zero or woefully inadequate paid leave), sometimes they don’t have family support, reliable daycare is also scarce and too expensive especially in NY.
Tell me, would you like to raise your federal income taxes to provide free daycare to all of these children that will now be born to low income mothers? Because let’s face it, the wealthy will always find a way to access abortion if necessary.
I had the pleasure of working with a group of loser late teen, early 20s young women who absolutely made the decision lightly. Actually didn't even give it a second thought. Had no idea who the father was in some cases...
Let me clear up when I say using abortion as birth control I am not talking about women getting multiple abortions instead of using condoms. I am talking about people who failed to use contraception even just one time and then chose to have an abortion. In that case they were not raped, nothing is wrong with the baby, their life is not in danger due to the pregnancy. They simply do not want a baby for whatever other reason and in that case, in my opinion, it's "birth control".
Still, people on here read my comments to mean that I am pro-life or anti-abortion. I am not. At all. I actually think legal, easily accessible abortion is a very, very necessary thing for many reasons one of which happens to be not wanting my tax dollars to support all the babies that would result from making abortion illegal. But I do acknowledge that from my own experience, whether the decision was made lightly or with a heavy heart, it was almost always do to failing to use appropriate contraception pre-conception. And frankly, I don't care how or why you made the decision but I think it's counterproductive to not acknowledge that for many women it is simply because they do not want a baby and even then it's not any of my business and I don't really care....
So would you rather these 'loser' teens have these babies because their rights were taken away. Then they don't take care of the kids and have them get placed into the flawed foster care system. Is that a better solution?
People say these laws are for the women who use abortion as birth control. How is this better? Lets have these women procreate, that will show them. No, the only one who is going to suffer is the child.
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| Posted 5/20/19 11:52 AM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
|
Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by Sash
Posted by lululu
Posted by Lucky09
I also wanted to address your statement that women have abortions as birth control. No woman that has had an abortion makes the decision lightly.
Sometimes birth control fails. Sometimes they have no health insurance for birth control or no access to it, Sometimes women don’t have supportive jobs (meaning zero or woefully inadequate paid leave), sometimes they don’t have family support, reliable daycare is also scarce and too expensive especially in NY.
Tell me, would you like to raise your federal income taxes to provide free daycare to all of these children that will now be born to low income mothers? Because let’s face it, the wealthy will always find a way to access abortion if necessary.
I had the pleasure of working with a group of loser late teen, early 20s young women who absolutely made the decision lightly. Actually didn't even give it a second thought. Had no idea who the father was in some cases...
Let me clear up when I say using abortion as birth control I am not talking about women getting multiple abortions instead of using condoms. I am talking about people who failed to use contraception even just one time and then chose to have an abortion. In that case they were not raped, nothing is wrong with the baby, their life is not in danger due to the pregnancy. They simply do not want a baby for whatever other reason and in that case, in my opinion, it's "birth control".
Still, people on here read my comments to mean that I am pro-life or anti-abortion. I am not. At all. I actually think legal, easily accessible abortion is a very, very necessary thing for many reasons one of which happens to be not wanting my tax dollars to support all the babies that would result from making abortion illegal. But I do acknowledge that from my own experience, whether the decision was made lightly or with a heavy heart, it was almost always do to failing to use appropriate contraception pre-conception. And frankly, I don't care how or why you made the decision but I think it's counterproductive to not acknowledge that for many women it is simply because they do not want a baby and even then it's not any of my business and I don't really care....
So would you rather these 'loser' teens have these babies because their rights were taken away. Then they don't take care of the kids and have them get placed into the flawed foster care system. Is that a better solution?
People say these laws are for the women who use abortion as birth control. How is this better? Lets have these women procreate, that will show them. No, the only one who is going to suffer is the child.
And even the best, most responsible use of birth control can fail.
Then what?
I guess abstinence is the only solution.
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| Posted 5/20/19 11:53 AM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by Sash
Posted by lululu
Posted by Lucky09
I also wanted to address your statement that women have abortions as birth control. No woman that has had an abortion makes the decision lightly.
Sometimes birth control fails. Sometimes they have no health insurance for birth control or no access to it, Sometimes women don’t have supportive jobs (meaning zero or woefully inadequate paid leave), sometimes they don’t have family support, reliable daycare is also scarce and too expensive especially in NY.
Tell me, would you like to raise your federal income taxes to provide free daycare to all of these children that will now be born to low income mothers? Because let’s face it, the wealthy will always find a way to access abortion if necessary.
I had the pleasure of working with a group of loser late teen, early 20s young women who absolutely made the decision lightly. Actually didn't even give it a second thought. Had no idea who the father was in some cases...
Let me clear up when I say using abortion as birth control I am not talking about women getting multiple abortions instead of using condoms. I am talking about people who failed to use contraception even just one time and then chose to have an abortion. In that case they were not raped, nothing is wrong with the baby, their life is not in danger due to the pregnancy. They simply do not want a baby for whatever other reason and in that case, in my opinion, it's "birth control".
Still, people on here read my comments to mean that I am pro-life or anti-abortion. I am not. At all. I actually think legal, easily accessible abortion is a very, very necessary thing for many reasons one of which happens to be not wanting my tax dollars to support all the babies that would result from making abortion illegal. But I do acknowledge that from my own experience, whether the decision was made lightly or with a heavy heart, it was almost always do to failing to use appropriate contraception pre-conception. And frankly, I don't care how or why you made the decision but I think it's counterproductive to not acknowledge that for many women it is simply because they do not want a baby and even then it's not any of my business and I don't really care....
So would you rather these 'loser' teens have these babies because their rights were taken away. Then they don't take care of the kids and have them get placed into the flawed foster care system. Is that a better solution?
People say these laws are for the women who use abortion as birth control. How is this better? Lets have these women procreate, that will show them. No, the only one who is going to suffer is the child.
And even the best, most responsible use of birth control can fail.
Then what?
I guess abstinence is the only solution.
That is true. No one is thinking of all these factors. Im so disgusted by this whole thing.
The priest at my church was talking about the how the "Doctors don't want to kill babies" and started going in on this topic. I couldn't stomach it and left. I can't take one sided arguments for an important issue. This will never be black and white, and thats why women need to have this right to choose what is best for them and what to do with their body.
Message edited 5/20/2019 12:05:34 PM.
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| Posted 5/20/19 12:05 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by Sash
Posted by lululu
Posted by Lucky09
I also wanted to address your statement that women have abortions as birth control. No woman that has had an abortion makes the decision lightly.
Sometimes birth control fails. Sometimes they have no health insurance for birth control or no access to it, Sometimes women don’t have supportive jobs (meaning zero or woefully inadequate paid leave), sometimes they don’t have family support, reliable daycare is also scarce and too expensive especially in NY.
Tell me, would you like to raise your federal income taxes to provide free daycare to all of these children that will now be born to low income mothers? Because let’s face it, the wealthy will always find a way to access abortion if necessary.
I had the pleasure of working with a group of loser late teen, early 20s young women who absolutely made the decision lightly. Actually didn't even give it a second thought. Had no idea who the father was in some cases...
Let me clear up when I say using abortion as birth control I am not talking about women getting multiple abortions instead of using condoms. I am talking about people who failed to use contraception even just one time and then chose to have an abortion. In that case they were not raped, nothing is wrong with the baby, their life is not in danger due to the pregnancy. They simply do not want a baby for whatever other reason and in that case, in my opinion, it's "birth control".
Still, people on here read my comments to mean that I am pro-life or anti-abortion. I am not. At all. I actually think legal, easily accessible abortion is a very, very necessary thing for many reasons one of which happens to be not wanting my tax dollars to support all the babies that would result from making abortion illegal. But I do acknowledge that from my own experience, whether the decision was made lightly or with a heavy heart, it was almost always do to failing to use appropriate contraception pre-conception. And frankly, I don't care how or why you made the decision but I think it's counterproductive to not acknowledge that for many women it is simply because they do not want a baby and even then it's not any of my business and I don't really care....
So would you rather these 'loser' teens have these babies because their rights were taken away. Then they don't take care of the kids and have them get placed into the flawed foster care system. Is that a better solution?
People say these laws are for the women who use abortion as birth control. How is this better? Lets have these women procreate, that will show them. No, the only one who is going to suffer is the child.
Did you even read my entire post? this is what I HATE about this site. If you read my entire post you have the answers to your questions. If you are going to bother to respond please READ the post first.
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| Posted 5/20/19 12:07 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by Sash
Posted by lululu
Posted by Lucky09
I also wanted to address your statement that women have abortions as birth control. No woman that has had an abortion makes the decision lightly.
Sometimes birth control fails. Sometimes they have no health insurance for birth control or no access to it, Sometimes women don’t have supportive jobs (meaning zero or woefully inadequate paid leave), sometimes they don’t have family support, reliable daycare is also scarce and too expensive especially in NY.
Tell me, would you like to raise your federal income taxes to provide free daycare to all of these children that will now be born to low income mothers? Because let’s face it, the wealthy will always find a way to access abortion if necessary.
I had the pleasure of working with a group of loser late teen, early 20s young women who absolutely made the decision lightly. Actually didn't even give it a second thought. Had no idea who the father was in some cases...
Let me clear up when I say using abortion as birth control I am not talking about women getting multiple abortions instead of using condoms. I am talking about people who failed to use contraception even just one time and then chose to have an abortion. In that case they were not raped, nothing is wrong with the baby, their life is not in danger due to the pregnancy. They simply do not want a baby for whatever other reason and in that case, in my opinion, it's "birth control".
Still, people on here read my comments to mean that I am pro-life or anti-abortion. I am not. At all. I actually think legal, easily accessible abortion is a very, very necessary thing for many reasons one of which happens to be not wanting my tax dollars to support all the babies that would result from making abortion illegal. But I do acknowledge that from my own experience, whether the decision was made lightly or with a heavy heart, it was almost always do to failing to use appropriate contraception pre-conception. And frankly, I don't care how or why you made the decision but I think it's counterproductive to not acknowledge that for many women it is simply because they do not want a baby and even then it's not any of my business and I don't really care....
So would you rather these 'loser' teens have these babies because their rights were taken away. Then they don't take care of the kids and have them get placed into the flawed foster care system. Is that a better solution?
People say these laws are for the women who use abortion as birth control. How is this better? Lets have these women procreate, that will show them. No, the only one who is going to suffer is the child.
And even the best, most responsible use of birth control can fail.
Then what?
I guess abstinence is the only solution.
AGAIN - please read my entire post!!!!!!!
Copied directly from my original post:
"I actually think legal, easily accessible abortion is a very, very necessary thing for many reasons"
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| Posted 5/20/19 12:08 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by Sash
That is true. No one is thinking of all these factors. Im so disgusted by this whole thing.
The priest at my church was talking about the how the "Doctors don't want to kill babies" and started going in on this topic. I couldn't stomach it and left. I can't take one sided arguments for an important issue. This will never be black and white, and thats why women need to have this right to choose what is best for them and what to do with their body.
It will never be black and white but the same way you stopped reading my post halfway thru and then made an assumption about me and my beliefs that is completely incorrect you stopped listening to the priest's point of view. This is such a huge problem today. If someone starts to say something that someone might not agree with they just tune out or walk out and don't try to see a different perspective.
I think that abortion should completely be 100% legal however, I myself would personally never have an abortion. And if I were a doctor I would not want to ever perform an abortion. I am not sure what your issue was with what the priest said. I am sure that there are a lot of doctor's who would not want to perform an abortion. To my knowledge I don't know any doctors that are forced to perform abortions against their will so I am not exactly sure what he was getting at but I would have loved to find out.... Not to mention I am not sure what church you belong to but I am pretty sure across the board Christians do not believe that abortion is a moral thing to do no matter what the circumstances.
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| Posted 5/20/19 12:13 PM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by lululu
Posted by Sash
Posted by lululu
Posted by Lucky09
I also wanted to address your statement that women have abortions as birth control. No woman that has had an abortion makes the decision lightly.
Sometimes birth control fails. Sometimes they have no health insurance for birth control or no access to it, Sometimes women don’t have supportive jobs (meaning zero or woefully inadequate paid leave), sometimes they don’t have family support, reliable daycare is also scarce and too expensive especially in NY.
Tell me, would you like to raise your federal income taxes to provide free daycare to all of these children that will now be born to low income mothers? Because let’s face it, the wealthy will always find a way to access abortion if necessary.
I had the pleasure of working with a group of loser late teen, early 20s young women who absolutely made the decision lightly. Actually didn't even give it a second thought. Had no idea who the father was in some cases...
Let me clear up when I say using abortion as birth control I am not talking about women getting multiple abortions instead of using condoms. I am talking about people who failed to use contraception even just one time and then chose to have an abortion. In that case they were not raped, nothing is wrong with the baby, their life is not in danger due to the pregnancy. They simply do not want a baby for whatever other reason and in that case, in my opinion, it's "birth control".
Still, people on here read my comments to mean that I am pro-life or anti-abortion. I am not. At all. I actually think legal, easily accessible abortion is a very, very necessary thing for many reasons one of which happens to be not wanting my tax dollars to support all the babies that would result from making abortion illegal. But I do acknowledge that from my own experience, whether the decision was made lightly or with a heavy heart, it was almost always do to failing to use appropriate contraception pre-conception. And frankly, I don't care how or why you made the decision but I think it's counterproductive to not acknowledge that for many women it is simply because they do not want a baby and even then it's not any of my business and I don't really care....
So would you rather these 'loser' teens have these babies because their rights were taken away. Then they don't take care of the kids and have them get placed into the flawed foster care system. Is that a better solution?
People say these laws are for the women who use abortion as birth control. How is this better? Lets have these women procreate, that will show them. No, the only one who is going to suffer is the child.
Did you even read my entire post? this is what I HATE about this site. If you read my entire post you have the answers to your questions. If you are going to bother to respond please READ the post first.
Ok you can relax, I quoted you because you brought up the abortion as birth control. Anyone who feels this way can answer me because I am genuinely curious. I always hear this argument from people but I never hear what they believe would happen if we stripped these "women" with their right to choose. A lot times they have no insight to what it is like being raised poor and ghetto, or have the slightest inclination of how the foster care system works. (Before you get your panties bunched tighter, not saying you specifically)
I read your post and you do not say what the solution was. You did not answer that specific question, you hinted that not acknowledging women using abortion as birth control was counterproductive. So maybe you should hate yourself because it seems like you don't even know what you posted.
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| Posted 5/20/19 12:16 PM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
|
Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by lululu
Posted by Sash
That is true. No one is thinking of all these factors. Im so disgusted by this whole thing.
The priest at my church was talking about the how the "Doctors don't want to kill babies" and started going in on this topic. I couldn't stomach it and left. I can't take one sided arguments for an important issue. This will never be black and white, and thats why women need to have this right to choose what is best for them and what to do with their body.
It will never be black and white but the same way you stopped reading my post halfway thru and then made an assumption about me and my beliefs that is completely incorrect you stopped listening to the priest's point of view. This is such a huge problem today. If someone starts to say something that someone might not agree with they just tune out or walk out and don't try to see a different perspective.
I think that abortion should completely be 100% legal however, I myself would personally never have an abortion. And if I were a doctor I would not want to ever perform an abortion. I am not sure what your issue was with what the priest said. I am sure that there are a lot of doctor's who would not want to perform an abortion. To my knowledge I don't know any doctors that are forced to perform abortions against their will so I am not exactly sure what he was getting at but I would have loved to find out.... Not to mention I am not sure what church you belong to but I am pretty sure across the board Christians do not believe that abortion is a moral thing to do no matter what the circumstances.
I read your post, I never made any assumption about you are labeled you at all. So where are you getting this from.
And the priest said a whole bunch of one sided statements. So when I can't have an open/candid conversation and lay out all the facts for my son then no I will not sit there and listen to it. It was propaganda and politically motivated because what is happening now. I don't go to church so the priest or the arch diocese can push their political agenda on me and my child. My son will have all the facts.
ETA: also I am not sure why you quoted the above. That was purely a response for Nell and had nothing to do with you. Your post was just in their from my previous reply asking a very legit question ad stating facts,
Message edited 5/20/2019 12:21:43 PM.
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| Posted 5/20/19 12:19 PM |
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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by Sash
Posted by lululu
Posted by Sash
Posted by lululu
Posted by Lucky09
I also wanted to address your statement that women have abortions as birth control. No woman that has had an abortion makes the decision lightly.
Sometimes birth control fails. Sometimes they have no health insurance for birth control or no access to it, Sometimes women don’t have supportive jobs (meaning zero or woefully inadequate paid leave), sometimes they don’t have family support, reliable daycare is also scarce and too expensive especially in NY.
Tell me, would you like to raise your federal income taxes to provide free daycare to all of these children that will now be born to low income mothers? Because let’s face it, the wealthy will always find a way to access abortion if necessary.
I had the pleasure of working with a group of loser late teen, early 20s young women who absolutely made the decision lightly. Actually didn't even give it a second thought. Had no idea who the father was in some cases...
Let me clear up when I say using abortion as birth control I am not talking about women getting multiple abortions instead of using condoms. I am talking about people who failed to use contraception even just one time and then chose to have an abortion. In that case they were not raped, nothing is wrong with the baby, their life is not in danger due to the pregnancy. They simply do not want a baby for whatever other reason and in that case, in my opinion, it's "birth control".
Still, people on here read my comments to mean that I am pro-life or anti-abortion. I am not. At all. I actually think legal, easily accessible abortion is a very, very necessary thing for many reasons one of which happens to be not wanting my tax dollars to support all the babies that would result from making abortion illegal. But I do acknowledge that from my own experience, whether the decision was made lightly or with a heavy heart, it was almost always do to failing to use appropriate contraception pre-conception. And frankly, I don't care how or why you made the decision but I think it's counterproductive to not acknowledge that for many women it is simply because they do not want a baby and even then it's not any of my business and I don't really care....
So would you rather these 'loser' teens have these babies because their rights were taken away. Then they don't take care of the kids and have them get placed into the flawed foster care system. Is that a better solution?
People say these laws are for the women who use abortion as birth control. How is this better? Lets have these women procreate, that will show them. No, the only one who is going to suffer is the child.
Did you even read my entire post? this is what I HATE about this site. If you read my entire post you have the answers to your questions. If you are going to bother to respond please READ the post first.
Ok you can relax, I quoted you because you brought up the abortion as birth control. Anyone who feels this way can answer me because I am genuinely curious. I always hear this argument from people but I never hear what they believe would happen if we stripped these "women" with their right to choose. A lot times they have no insight to what it is like being raised poor and ghetto, or have the slightest inclination of how the foster care system works. (Before you get your panties bunched tighter, not saying you specifically)
I read your post and you do not say what the solution was. You did not answer that specific question, you hinted that not acknowledging women using abortion as birth control was counterproductive. So maybe you should hate yourself because it seems like you don't even know what you posted.
The unfortunate thing is that for some, this is the only birth control that may be available. We take for granted everyone knows how babies are made or that everyone can stop at 7-11 at 1 am and pick up condoms or that they have the money for condoms. We take for granted that we even have the education to understand what pregnancy prevention is. We are also taking for granted that these pregnancies are resulting from consensual sex.
Abortion is a form of birth control just like an IUD, condoms, etc. And all forms of birth control, I feel, fall under healthcare.
The other unfortunate thing is that all these "heartbeat" laws are not for children...Alabama has the highest infant mortality rate in this country and is the 3rd largest with children living in poverty. Alabama rather waste millions of dollars kicking this can up to the supreme court rather then funding maternity leave laws. These laws are about control...nothing else except sick control.
I know I kind of jumped the shark but the fate of women and women's health is this country is in a very scary state.
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| Posted 5/20/19 1:31 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by Sash
Posted by lululu
Posted by Sash
Posted by lululu
Posted by Lucky09
I also wanted to address your statement that women have abortions as birth control. No woman that has had an abortion makes the decision lightly.
Sometimes birth control fails. Sometimes they have no health insurance for birth control or no access to it, Sometimes women don’t have supportive jobs (meaning zero or woefully inadequate paid leave), sometimes they don’t have family support, reliable daycare is also scarce and too expensive especially in NY.
Tell me, would you like to raise your federal income taxes to provide free daycare to all of these children that will now be born to low income mothers? Because let’s face it, the wealthy will always find a way to access abortion if necessary.
I had the pleasure of working with a group of loser late teen, early 20s young women who absolutely made the decision lightly. Actually didn't even give it a second thought. Had no idea who the father was in some cases...
Let me clear up when I say using abortion as birth control I am not talking about women getting multiple abortions instead of using condoms. I am talking about people who failed to use contraception even just one time and then chose to have an abortion. In that case they were not raped, nothing is wrong with the baby, their life is not in danger due to the pregnancy. They simply do not want a baby for whatever other reason and in that case, in my opinion, it's "birth control".
Still, people on here read my comments to mean that I am pro-life or anti-abortion. I am not. At all. I actually think legal, easily accessible abortion is a very, very necessary thing for many reasons one of which happens to be not wanting my tax dollars to support all the babies that would result from making abortion illegal. But I do acknowledge that from my own experience, whether the decision was made lightly or with a heavy heart, it was almost always do to failing to use appropriate contraception pre-conception. And frankly, I don't care how or why you made the decision but I think it's counterproductive to not acknowledge that for many women it is simply because they do not want a baby and even then it's not any of my business and I don't really care....
So would you rather these 'loser' teens have these babies because their rights were taken away. Then they don't take care of the kids and have them get placed into the flawed foster care system. Is that a better solution?
People say these laws are for the women who use abortion as birth control. How is this better? Lets have these women procreate, that will show them. No, the only one who is going to suffer is the child.
Did you even read my entire post? this is what I HATE about this site. If you read my entire post you have the answers to your questions. If you are going to bother to respond please READ the post first.
Ok you can relax, I quoted you because you brought up the abortion as birth control. Anyone who feels this way can answer me because I am genuinely curious. I always hear this argument from people but I never hear what they believe would happen if we stripped these "women" with their right to choose. A lot times they have no insight to what it is like being raised poor and ghetto, or have the slightest inclination of how the foster care system works. (Before you get your panties bunched tighter, not saying you specifically)
I read your post and you do not say what the solution was. You did not answer that specific question, you hinted that not acknowledging women using abortion as birth control was counterproductive. So maybe you should hate yourself because it seems like you don't even know what you posted.
hate myself? huh? I think that the solution is to have easily accessible legal abortion. pretty sure I have stated that. I am PRO-CHOICE. I am not for stripping women of any of their rights to an abortion.
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| Posted 5/20/19 2:08 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by CookiePuss
Posted by Sash
Posted by lululu
Posted by Sash
Posted by lululu
Posted by Lucky09
I also wanted to address your statement that women have abortions as birth control. No woman that has had an abortion makes the decision lightly.
Sometimes birth control fails. Sometimes they have no health insurance for birth control or no access to it, Sometimes women don’t have supportive jobs (meaning zero or woefully inadequate paid leave), sometimes they don’t have family support, reliable daycare is also scarce and too expensive especially in NY.
Tell me, would you like to raise your federal income taxes to provide free daycare to all of these children that will now be born to low income mothers? Because let’s face it, the wealthy will always find a way to access abortion if necessary.
I had the pleasure of working with a group of loser late teen, early 20s young women who absolutely made the decision lightly. Actually didn't even give it a second thought. Had no idea who the father was in some cases...
Let me clear up when I say using abortion as birth control I am not talking about women getting multiple abortions instead of using condoms. I am talking about people who failed to use contraception even just one time and then chose to have an abortion. In that case they were not raped, nothing is wrong with the baby, their life is not in danger due to the pregnancy. They simply do not want a baby for whatever other reason and in that case, in my opinion, it's "birth control".
Still, people on here read my comments to mean that I am pro-life or anti-abortion. I am not. At all. I actually think legal, easily accessible abortion is a very, very necessary thing for many reasons one of which happens to be not wanting my tax dollars to support all the babies that would result from making abortion illegal. But I do acknowledge that from my own experience, whether the decision was made lightly or with a heavy heart, it was almost always do to failing to use appropriate contraception pre-conception. And frankly, I don't care how or why you made the decision but I think it's counterproductive to not acknowledge that for many women it is simply because they do not want a baby and even then it's not any of my business and I don't really care....
So would you rather these 'loser' teens have these babies because their rights were taken away. Then they don't take care of the kids and have them get placed into the flawed foster care system. Is that a better solution?
People say these laws are for the women who use abortion as birth control. How is this better? Lets have these women procreate, that will show them. No, the only one who is going to suffer is the child.
Did you even read my entire post? this is what I HATE about this site. If you read my entire post you have the answers to your questions. If you are going to bother to respond please READ the post first.
Ok you can relax, I quoted you because you brought up the abortion as birth control. Anyone who feels this way can answer me because I am genuinely curious. I always hear this argument from people but I never hear what they believe would happen if we stripped these "women" with their right to choose. A lot times they have no insight to what it is like being raised poor and ghetto, or have the slightest inclination of how the foster care system works. (Before you get your panties bunched tighter, not saying you specifically)
I read your post and you do not say what the solution was. You did not answer that specific question, you hinted that not acknowledging women using abortion as birth control was counterproductive. So maybe you should hate yourself because it seems like you don't even know what you posted.
The unfortunate thing is that for some, this is the only birth control that may be available. We take for granted everyone knows how babies are made or that everyone can stop at 7-11 at 1 am and pick up condoms or that they have the money for condoms. We take for granted that we even have the education to understand what pregnancy prevention is. We are also taking for granted that these pregnancies are resulting from consensual sex.
Abortion is a form of birth control just like an IUD, condoms, etc. And all forms of birth control, I feel, fall under healthcare.
The other unfortunate thing is that all these "heartbeat" laws are not for children...Alabama has the highest infant mortality rate in this country and is the 3rd largest with children living in poverty. Alabama rather waste millions of dollars kicking this can up to the supreme court rather then funding maternity leave laws. These laws are about control...nothing else except sick control.
I know I kind of jumped the shark but the fate of women and women's health is this country is in a very scary state.
I actually was just going to write, and I have said it time and time again, this country needs to spend more money on educating youths in at risk areas about contraception and safe sex and provide condoms and other forms of birth control. Because in a lot of these areas an abortion is still not accessible or they will wait too long and end up with a baby to take care of anyway. The problem actually goes way deeper than abortion.
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| Posted 5/20/19 2:10 PM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by lululu
Posted by Sash
Posted by lululu
Posted by Sash
Posted by lululu
Posted by Lucky09
I also wanted to address your statement that women have abortions as birth control. No woman that has had an abortion makes the decision lightly.
Sometimes birth control fails. Sometimes they have no health insurance for birth control or no access to it, Sometimes women don’t have supportive jobs (meaning zero or woefully inadequate paid leave), sometimes they don’t have family support, reliable daycare is also scarce and too expensive especially in NY.
Tell me, would you like to raise your federal income taxes to provide free daycare to all of these children that will now be born to low income mothers? Because let’s face it, the wealthy will always find a way to access abortion if necessary.
I had the pleasure of working with a group of loser late teen, early 20s young women who absolutely made the decision lightly. Actually didn't even give it a second thought. Had no idea who the father was in some cases...
Let me clear up when I say using abortion as birth control I am not talking about women getting multiple abortions instead of using condoms. I am talking about people who failed to use contraception even just one time and then chose to have an abortion. In that case they were not raped, nothing is wrong with the baby, their life is not in danger due to the pregnancy. They simply do not want a baby for whatever other reason and in that case, in my opinion, it's "birth control".
Still, people on here read my comments to mean that I am pro-life or anti-abortion. I am not. At all. I actually think legal, easily accessible abortion is a very, very necessary thing for many reasons one of which happens to be not wanting my tax dollars to support all the babies that would result from making abortion illegal. But I do acknowledge that from my own experience, whether the decision was made lightly or with a heavy heart, it was almost always do to failing to use appropriate contraception pre-conception. And frankly, I don't care how or why you made the decision but I think it's counterproductive to not acknowledge that for many women it is simply because they do not want a baby and even then it's not any of my business and I don't really care....
So would you rather these 'loser' teens have these babies because their rights were taken away. Then they don't take care of the kids and have them get placed into the flawed foster care system. Is that a better solution?
People say these laws are for the women who use abortion as birth control. How is this better? Lets have these women procreate, that will show them. No, the only one who is going to suffer is the child.
Did you even read my entire post? this is what I HATE about this site. If you read my entire post you have the answers to your questions. If you are going to bother to respond please READ the post first.
Ok you can relax, I quoted you because you brought up the abortion as birth control. Anyone who feels this way can answer me because I am genuinely curious. I always hear this argument from people but I never hear what they believe would happen if we stripped these "women" with their right to choose. A lot times they have no insight to what it is like being raised poor and ghetto, or have the slightest inclination of how the foster care system works. (Before you get your panties bunched tighter, not saying you specifically)
I read your post and you do not say what the solution was. You did not answer that specific question, you hinted that not acknowledging women using abortion as birth control was counterproductive. So maybe you should hate yourself because it seems like you don't even know what you posted.
hate myself? huh? I think that the solution is to have easily accessible legal abortion. pretty sure I have stated that. I am PRO-CHOICE. I am not for stripping women of any of their rights to an abortion.
Again I never said you weren't pro-choice. I said "ANYONE" who feels this way can answer me. Unless you are "EVERYBODY" I am not talking to you alone.
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| Posted 5/20/19 2:13 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by Sash
Posted by lululu
hate myself? huh? I think that the solution is to have easily accessible legal abortion. pretty sure I have stated that. I am PRO-CHOICE. I am not for stripping women of any of their rights to an abortion.
Again I never said you weren't pro-choice. I said "ANYONE" who feels this way can answer me. Unless you are "EVERYBODY" I am not talking to you alone.
I was responding to you saying I never said what the solution was.... You specifically said that I (meaning me) never said what the solution was. I don't need a solution because there is no problem for me right now. Listen, you clearly do not understand what I am saying so let's please just let this go.
Message edited 5/20/2019 3:26:35 PM.
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| Posted 5/20/19 3:25 PM |
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mrsrainbow
LIF Adult
Member since 1/17 1465 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
I've had an abortion. Don't like it, don't look at me.
Taking away a womans reproductive autonomy is less about being pro-choice, pro-life, anti-abortion or whatever you want to call it, and all about systematic erasure and profit. If you think there isn't a monetary benefit for the government to do this you're wrong. If it was more profitable for it to be legal (as in, Planned Parenthood had deep enough pockets to buy off politicians the way the pro-life movement does), you'd better believe it would be.
Plenty of people use it for birth control methods. So what. That's their life. I can't control them. I can't spend my precious time worrying about them. Neither should you. Your anecdotes don't matter. Worry about your own life. Oh, you're tax dollars are going to abortions? My tax dollars are going to guns in schools and kids dying. Are we square?
Some women don't want to be mothers. Some women shouldn't be mothers. It doesn't matter their reason for wanting an abortion. They don't need to justify it to a single person. The absolute only thing I care about is that access to abortions is legal, safe, and as normalized as any other medical procedure. If all you think about is that a baby should be born and nothing else than you merely reduce women to being hosts, incubators, contributing nothing more to society than progeny.
Please refer to my first sentence if you don't like that.
Message edited 5/20/2019 6:05:37 PM.
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| Posted 5/20/19 5:23 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by mrsrainbow
I've had an abortion. Don't like it, don't look at me.
Taking away a womans reproductive autonomy is less about being pro-choice, pro-life, anti-abortion or whatever you want to call it, and all about systematic erasure and profit. If you think there isn't a monetary benefit for the government to do this you're wrong. If it was more profitable for it to be legal (as in, Planned Parenthood had deep enough pockets to buy off politicians the way the pro-life movement does), you'd better believe it would be.
Plenty of people use it for birth control methods. So what. That's their life. I can't control them. I can't spend my precious time worrying about them. Neither should you. Your anecdotes don't matter. Worry about your own life. Oh, you're tax dollars are going to abortions? My tax dollars are going to guns in schools and kids dying. Are we square?
Some women don't want to be mothers. Some women shouldn't be mothers. It doesn't matter their reason for wanting an abortion. They don't need to justify it to a single person. The absolute only thing I care about is that access to abortions is legal, safe, and as normalized as any other medical procedure. If all you think about is that a baby should be born and nothing else than you merely reduce women to being hosts, incubators, contributing nothing more to society than progeny.
Please refer to my first sentence if you don't like that.
Well said!
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| Posted 5/20/19 7:11 PM |
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PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken
Member since 6/11 9145 total posts
Name:
Phyllis
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by mrsrainbow
Plenty of people use it for birth control methods. So what. That's their life. I can't control them. I can't spend my precious time worrying about them. Neither should you. Your anecdotes don't matter.
I’m sorry. But so what? These are still lives being snuffed out. It’s not just their life. Mistake - ok. Just Can’t do it - ok. Not ready to be a parent - ok. Extenuating circumstances - ok all of this plus more, I agree with you can’t control them and I wouldn’t want to. Have abortion after abortion after abortion ? I can’t accept that. It does bother me. And I do spend my precious time worrying about all of those lives lost due to the parents of those children deciding not using any precautions during sex because they can just get rid of it.
Again. I agree abortion should be legal and stay legal. Not for me , but I’m glad it’s available to those who Need it. But to say it in this way? It saddens me that these lives mean nothing.
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| Posted 5/20/19 7:55 PM |
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Hopefulmama
LIF Adult
Member since 4/14 1014 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by mrsrainbow
Plenty of people use it for birth control methods. So what. That's their life. I can't control them. I can't spend my precious time worrying about them. Neither should you. Your anecdotes don't matter.
I’m sorry. But so what? These are still lives being snuffed out. It’s not just their life. Mistake - ok. Just Can’t do it - ok. Not ready to be a parent - ok. Extenuating circumstances - ok all of this plus more, I agree with you can’t control them and I wouldn’t want to. Have abortion after abortion after abortion ? I can’t accept that. It does bother me. And I do spend my precious time worrying about all of those lives lost due to the parents of those children deciding not using any precautions during sex because they can just get rid of it.
Again. I agree abortion should be legal and stay legal. Not for me , but I’m glad it’s available to those who Need it. But to say it in this way? It saddens me that these lives mean nothing.
I agree with you here. I had a super high risk pregnancy and was constantly advised to terminate. I didn’t, but only because as the weeks went on my situation seemed to improve rather than get worse at predicted. I was very grateful to have the right to terminate if things went south. And so I am and remain firmly pro choice.
HOWEVER among today’s pro choice population, I am dismayed to hear an almost callousness, or even antagonism, towards the fetus. I do believe in the value of fetal life and that abortion is always a sad loss of potential life. Babies are miraculous. For me these two feelings may seem contradictory but actually pose no conflict. I can’t help but wish that those on the pro choice side could show a little more empathy for a fetus that didn’t ask to be conceived. But maybe they feel so attacked and that the right to abortion is so imperiled, that they are afraid to give the anti choice movement any ammunition? I don’t know.
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| Posted 5/20/19 9:03 PM |
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mrsrainbow
LIF Adult
Member since 1/17 1465 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by Hopefulmama
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by mrsrainbow
Plenty of people use it for birth control methods. So what. That's their life. I can't control them. I can't spend my precious time worrying about them. Neither should you. Your anecdotes don't matter.
I’m sorry. But so what? These are still lives being snuffed out. It’s not just their life. Mistake - ok. Just Can’t do it - ok. Not ready to be a parent - ok. Extenuating circumstances - ok all of this plus more, I agree with you can’t control them and I wouldn’t want to. Have abortion after abortion after abortion ? I can’t accept that. It does bother me. And I do spend my precious time worrying about all of those lives lost due to the parents of those children deciding not using any precautions during sex because they can just get rid of it.
Again. I agree abortion should be legal and stay legal. Not for me , but I’m glad it’s available to those who Need it. But to say it in this way? It saddens me that these lives mean nothing.
I agree with you here. I had a super high risk pregnancy and was constantly advised to terminate. I didn’t, but only because as the weeks went on my situation seemed to improve rather than get worse at predicted. I was very grateful to have the right to terminate if things went south. And so I am and remain firmly pro choice.
HOWEVER among today’s pro choice population, I am dismayed to hear an almost callousness, or even antagonism, towards the fetus. I do believe in the value of fetal life and that abortion is always a sad loss of potential life. Babies are miraculous. For me these two feelings may seem contradictory but actually pose no conflict. I can’t help but wish that those on the pro choice side could show a little more empathy for a fetus that didn’t ask to be conceived. But maybe they feel so attacked and that the right to abortion is so imperiled, that they are afraid to give the anti choice movement any ammunition? I don’t know.
I don't have all the answers. I sure wish I did. I don't know why people do what they do. But that's why God gave us free will. You have free will not to get an abortion and I have free will to get one. You just can't tell a woman they can't control their own body. If they choose to get an 10 abortions, thats a choice they have to live with - not me or you. They have to think about that day in and day out, carry that weight. Or maybe they won't. I can't profess to know what makes you tick anymore than you know makes me tick. And that's all I do know. People have to live with the consequences of their own actions. You can't just take away the ability to make that choice in the first place. There are plenty of women who get pregnant and it is not miraculous to them. They do not have to share in some "miracle of life" theory. Perhaps some of you should understand that the world is not a 1950s Norman Rockwell painting - some pregnancies are the result of trauma and abuse and are not wanted in the slightest. Why do you want to traumatize women into motherhood?
ETA: Sory, quoted two responses by accident
Message edited 5/20/2019 11:34:39 PM.
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| Posted 5/20/19 11:30 PM |
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Mrs213
????????
Member since 2/09 18986 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by mrsrainbow
Plenty of people use it for birth control methods. So what. That's their life. I can't control them. I can't spend my precious time worrying about them. Neither should you. Your anecdotes don't matter.
I’m sorry. But so what? These are still lives being snuffed out. It’s not just their life. Mistake - ok. Just Can’t do it - ok. Not ready to be a parent - ok. Extenuating circumstances - ok all of this plus more, I agree with you can’t control them and I wouldn’t want to. Have abortion after abortion after abortion ? I can’t accept that. It does bother me. And I do spend my precious time worrying about all of those lives lost due to the parents of those children deciding not using any precautions during sex because they can just get rid of it.
Again. I agree abortion should be legal and stay legal. Not for me , but I’m glad it’s available to those who Need it. But to say it in this way? It saddens me that these lives mean nothing.
I don’t think this is the norm though. It’s much more common that they have the babies anyway, whether they want them or not, without the means of supporting them, go on social services and suck up all of our tax dollars on their 5 plus kids while they sit at home all day. I see it every day in my line of work. It’s disgusting really. Not to mention the drug addicted babies who get placed in foster care and require tons of extra medical care that the county is paying for. But I digress....
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| Posted 5/20/19 11:45 PM |
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RainyDay
LIF Adult
Member since 6/15 3990 total posts
Name:
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Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
My biggest concern would be about the quality of life of these kids will have after their mothers are forced to have them. If a woman is so casual about getting multiple abortions or they feel like they just cant handle raising a child, is it really responsible for us as a society or for our government to force them to bring a kid into the world? Do people honestly feel that once these women give birth a switch flips and these women become awesome parents?
People need to stop thinking about the "rights of a fetus" and start thinking about the quality of life of all these unwanted children coming into this world.
Message edited 5/21/2019 6:50:00 AM.
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| Posted 5/21/19 6:35 AM |
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SusiBee
. . . . .
Member since 3/09 8268 total posts
Name:
S
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Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Bottom line to this is that a woman's CHOICE is being taken away.
Someone is dictating what a woman can or cannot do with her body.
I am not pro abortion nor am I anti abortion. I cannot say what is right or wrong for another woman to do. That's not my place and I am not here to debate that.
I want to have a voice, to be able to decide.
If birth control and the right to a safe abortion are being made illegal, why aren't erectile disfunction drugs being made illegal ?
There is no medical necessity for a man to have an erection except to procreate.
Fair is fair .......
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| Posted 5/21/19 8:41 AM |
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mrsrainbow
LIF Adult
Member since 1/17 1465 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by RainyDay
My biggest concern would be about the quality of life of these kids will have after their mothers are forced to have them. If a woman is so casual about getting multiple abortions or they feel like they just cant handle raising a child, is it really responsible for us as a society or for our government to force them to bring a kid into the world? Do people honestly feel that once these women give birth a switch flips and these women become awesome parents?
People need to stop thinking about the "rights of a fetus" and start thinking about the quality of life of all these unwanted children coming into this world.
ding ding ding
Society, and the world in general, is not linear. Not every woman wants children. Getting pregnant, for some women, could be devastating. Forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy they don't want could be traumatic for a child and that mother. Where do you think childhood trauma and abuse stems from? Some of it - not all - could be because their mother did not want them. Their father, well, how many fathers stick around?
The data is out there guys. Get out of the bubble. Start educating yourself beyond "every baby is a miracle." Or if that's what you believe, find your inner grace to make peace with people using their free will to make choices you don't agree with.
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| Posted 5/21/19 9:15 AM |
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Two posts that I've seen that make really good points.
From Facebook:
I will buy that anti-abortion laws are about the fetus being a "person" when we also have laws requiring that parents, including parents who have given up their paternity rights, donate organs to their biological children who need them to survive as long as the parent could survive the donation process (but might be injured/harmed for life). When you can legally track down a father who gave up his child for adoption and take his kidney, risking that he'll die from surgical complications or be permanently injured from the procedure, and give it to his biological child so they can survive, because keeping children alive is more important than bodily autonomy, then I will believe that this is about "personhood" and "saving lives."
Until then, I'm pretty sure these laws are about believing women are less deserving of bodily autonomy and freedom than men. And, I suppose, that living women are less deserving of bodily autonomy than dead women or men, since corpses also can't be required to donate their organs to keep children alive.
Also, this article about how 100% of unwanted pregnancies are caused by men: Article
I honestly can't get my head around the concept that people think forcing pregnancy is an appropriate punishment for women who are sexually active.
Pregnancy can have life long consequences for women. You could be condemning a 20 year old to a life of incontinence or to death considering the US has the highest rate of maternal mortality in the industrialized world.
We offer minimal support to pregnant women - minimal job protection, no paid leave, limited medical benefits - and even less support once they've had the baby. If they're poor then they're villianized as welfare mom's living off the system.
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| Posted 5/21/19 9:31 AM |
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