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Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
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lululu
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by mrsrainbow
I don't have all the answers. I sure wish I did. I don't know why people do what they do. But that's why God gave us free will. You have free will not to get an abortion and I have free will to get one. You just can't tell a woman they can't control their own body. If they choose to get an 10 abortions, thats a choice they have to live with - not me or you. They have to think about that day in and day out, carry that weight. Or maybe they won't. I can't profess to know what makes you tick anymore than you know makes me tick. And that's all I do know. People have to live with the consequences of their own actions. You can't just take away the ability to make that choice in the first place. There are plenty of women who get pregnant and it is not miraculous to them. They do not have to share in some "miracle of life" theory. Perhaps some of you should understand that the world is not a 1950s Norman Rockwell painting - some pregnancies are the result of trauma and abuse and are not wanted in the slightest. Why do you want to traumatize women into motherhood?
ETA: Sory, quoted two responses by accident
Yes everyone has free will to do what ever they want. I have free will to commit murder but there are consequences to that. For people that are pro-life they believe that life begins at conception and abortion is murdering a human being. But abortion is a legal procedure. I can honestly see both sides of this argument but I feel like a lot of pro-choice people can not see the other perspective. And of course there is also a middle ground but not a lot of people want to see that either.
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Posted 5/21/19 9:53 AM  |
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BriBri2u
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Member since 5/05 9320 total posts
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Mrs. B
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by RainyDay
My biggest concern would be about the quality of life of these kids will have after their mothers are forced to have them. If a woman is so casual about getting multiple abortions or they feel like they just cant handle raising a child, is it really responsible for us as a society or for our government to force them to bring a kid into the world? Do people honestly feel that once these women give birth a switch flips and these women become awesome parents?
People need to stop thinking about the "rights of a fetus" and start thinking about the quality of life of all these unwanted children coming into this world.
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| Posted 5/21/19 9:57 AM |
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lululu
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Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by starbrightgirl8
I honestly can't get my head around the concept that people think forcing pregnancy is an appropriate punishment for women who are sexually active.
I don't think that people who are pro-life are trying to punish the woman, rather they are trying to protect the fetus. I think the other side of that argument is that you are forcing death on a fetus that didn't chose to be conceived in the first place.
Disclaimer - I am not saying these are MY views but I believe they are the views of people that are pro-life.
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| Posted 5/21/19 10:22 AM |
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NervousNell
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Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by lululu
Posted by starbrightgirl8
I honestly can't get my head around the concept that people think forcing pregnancy is an appropriate punishment for women who are sexually active.
I don't think that people who are pro-life are trying to punish the woman, rather they are trying to protect the fetus. I think the other side of that argument is that you are forcing death on a fetus that didn't chose to be conceived in the first place.
Disclaimer - I am not saying these are MY views but I believe they are the views of people that are pro-life.
So the pro lifers want to protect a fetus or very early on a group of multiplying cells, over protecting a mother.
So I guess it comes down to who in this country has more rights- a person already born with thoughts and emotions or an unborn fetus.
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| Posted 5/21/19 10:35 AM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by lululu
Posted by starbrightgirl8
I honestly can't get my head around the concept that people think forcing pregnancy is an appropriate punishment for women who are sexually active.
I don't think that people who are pro-life are trying to punish the woman, rather they are trying to protect the fetus. I think the other side of that argument is that you are forcing death on a fetus that didn't chose to be conceived in the first place.
Disclaimer - I am not saying these are MY views but I believe they are the views of people that are pro-life.
So the pro lifers want to protect a fetus or very early on a group of multiplying cells, over protecting a mother.
So I guess it comes down to who in this country has more rights- a person already born with thoughts and emotions or an unborn fetus.
I think that's probably a very rudimentary way of looking at it but yes that's probably what it comes down to in some cases.
Protecting is not the word that I would use though. I would say they value the life of the fetus over the emotional state of the mother.
But then there is also a whole middle ground of people who support abortion in the case of rape, incest, when the baby is not viable, when the mother's life is in danger, etc. So those people are anti-abortion in cases where it's just "I made a mistake", or "it was an accident"...
I think it's hard to understand the reasons behind anyone's choice to get an abortion which is why I personally believe that you need unrestricted abortion but at the same time I do value the life of the fetus. It's a sad topic all around to me.
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| Posted 5/21/19 10:46 AM |
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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Our government needs to GTFO with all this fake righteousness.
Why all the outrage for abortions, yet nothing about the thousands of kids killed each year by gunfire? In schools, on playgrounds, at home... What makes a fetus more important than a 5 year old pumped full of bullet holes? No, this isn't a rhetorical question. I'd really like an answer. I'd really like to know why all the outrage for the unborn and the silence for very real, very wanted children turned into mulch by firearms.
Why am I hearing more about abortions than kids being separated from their parents and dying in U.S. custody? Where's the outrage for these lost, unaccounted for, suffering, and in some cases dead children?
Why am I hearing more about a raped 11 year old being forced to carry a pregnancy and less about punishment for her uncle/rapist?
Why is the topic only about women? Why is there no speak of men taking responsibility for their offspring? Forced child support, punishment for abandonment?
Nothing says pro-life like sentencing a woman to death for having an abortion. Or investigating the shit out of a miscarriage to make sure an already distressed woman didn't plan it.
Why no talk about all the abused kids ALREADY in the foster care system with no hope of ever getting out until they age out on their own and go on to live in poverty and suffering as adults? Why add more to a broken system? Why are the people against a woman's right to choose not lining up to fill their loving homes with foster kids? Because talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.
Why are lawmakers, who keep proving they know nothing about the female anatomy and even less about basic biology, spreading falsehoods like implantion of ectopic pregnancies into the uterus?? These are the asinine people trying to govern uteruses??
Why in this country are fetuses more important than former fetuses?
And when you have a lawmaker say they're not interested in fertilized eggs in IVF clinics being destroyed because the woman isn't pregnant yet you have your answer.
In a perfect world every pregnancy is wanted and every child is loved and wanted, but we don't live in a perfect world and we have far more pressing issues that go ignored. I'm really curious for answers. Really curious to know why an unborn fetus has more rights than an already existing child equipped with its own heartbeat, completely independent of its mother's heartbeat. I'm trying to understand the thought process of the other side, because until I do I will be forced to believe the righteousness is fake and the hypocrisy is real.
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| Posted 5/21/19 11:08 AM |
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CookiePuss
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Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by MC09
Our government needs to GTFO with all this fake righteousness.
Why all the outrage for abortions, yet nothing about the thousands of kids killed each year by gunfire? In schools, on playgrounds, at home... What makes a fetus more important than a 5 year old pumped full of bullet holes? No, this isn't a rhetorical question. I'd really like an answer. I'd really like to know why all the outrage for the unborn and the silence for very real, very wanted children turned into mulch by firearms.
Why am I hearing more about abortions than kids being separated from their parents and dying in U.S. custody? Where's the outrage for these lost, unaccounted for, suffering, and in some cases dead children?
Why am I hearing more about a raped 11 year old being forced to carry a pregnancy and less about punishment for her uncle/rapist?
Why is the topic only about women? Why is there no speak of men taking responsibility for their offspring? Forced child support, punishment for abandonment?
Nothing says pro-life like sentencing a woman to death for having an abortion. Or investigating the shit out of a miscarriage to make sure an already distressed woman didn't plan it.
Why no talk about all the abused kids ALREADY in the foster care system with no hope of ever getting out until they age out on their own and go on to live in poverty and suffering as adults? Why add more to a broken system? Why are the people against a woman's right to choose not lining up to fill their loving homes with foster kids? Because talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.
Why are lawmakers, who keep proving they know nothing about the female anatomy and even less about basic biology, spreading falsehoods like implantion of ectopic pregnancies into the uterus?? These are the asinine people trying to govern uteruses??
Why in this country are fetuses more important than former fetuses?
And when you have a lawmaker say they're not interested in fertilized eggs in IVF clinics being destroyed because the woman isn't pregnant yet you have your answer.
In a perfect world every pregnancy is wanted and every child is loved and wanted, but we don't live in a perfect world and we have far more pressing issues that go ignored. I'm really curious for answers. Really curious to know why an unborn fetus has more rights than an already existing child equipped with its own heartbeat, completely independent of its mother's heartbeat. I'm trying to understand the thought process of the other side, because until I do I will be forced to believe the righteousness is fake and the hypocrisy is real.
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| Posted 5/21/19 11:38 AM |
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StaceyWill
It's a girl!!!
Member since 6/10 21539 total posts
Name:
Stacey
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by CookiePuss
Posted by MC09
Our government needs to GTFO with all this fake righteousness.
Why all the outrage for abortions, yet nothing about the thousands of kids killed each year by gunfire? In schools, on playgrounds, at home... What makes a fetus more important than a 5 year old pumped full of bullet holes? No, this isn't a rhetorical question. I'd really like an answer. I'd really like to know why all the outrage for the unborn and the silence for very real, very wanted children turned into mulch by firearms.
Why am I hearing more about abortions than kids being separated from their parents and dying in U.S. custody? Where's the outrage for these lost, unaccounted for, suffering, and in some cases dead children?
Why am I hearing more about a raped 11 year old being forced to carry a pregnancy and less about punishment for her uncle/rapist?
Why is the topic only about women? Why is there no speak of men taking responsibility for their offspring? Forced child support, punishment for abandonment?
Nothing says pro-life like sentencing a woman to death for having an abortion. Or investigating the shit out of a miscarriage to make sure an already distressed woman didn't plan it.
Why no talk about all the abused kids ALREADY in the foster care system with no hope of ever getting out until they age out on their own and go on to live in poverty and suffering as adults? Why add more to a broken system? Why are the people against a woman's right to choose not lining up to fill their loving homes with foster kids? Because talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.
Why are lawmakers, who keep proving they know nothing about the female anatomy and even less about basic biology, spreading falsehoods like implantion of ectopic pregnancies into the uterus?? These are the asinine people trying to govern uteruses??
Why in this country are fetuses more important than former fetuses?
And when you have a lawmaker say they're not interested in fertilized eggs in IVF clinics being destroyed because the woman isn't pregnant yet you have your answer.
In a perfect world every pregnancy is wanted and every child is loved and wanted, but we don't live in a perfect world and we have far more pressing issues that go ignored. I'm really curious for answers. Really curious to know why an unborn fetus has more rights than an already existing child equipped with its own heartbeat, completely independent of its mother's heartbeat. I'm trying to understand the thought process of the other side, because until I do I will be forced to believe the righteousness is fake and the hypocrisy is real.
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| Posted 5/21/19 11:43 AM |
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by lululu
Posted by starbrightgirl8
I honestly can't get my head around the concept that people think forcing pregnancy is an appropriate punishment for women who are sexually active.
I don't think that people who are pro-life are trying to punish the woman, rather they are trying to protect the fetus. I think the other side of that argument is that you are forcing death on a fetus that didn't chose to be conceived in the first place.
Disclaimer - I am not saying these are MY views but I believe they are the views of people that are pro-life.
When you criminalize the alternative, it is a punishment. There is no 100% effective birth control other than abstinence, so if you're a woman, and you're sexually active, and you live in a state where abortion is now functionally criminalized, then if you accidentally get pregnant, whether it's your failure, your partner's failure (or possibly intentional assault), or your birth control's failure, then you now have to live with those repercussions. Criminalizing abortion means you either need to commit a criminal act to get an abortion or you are forced to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term with potential life long physical and emotion repercussions. If you don't think that is a punishment for being a sexually active woman, I don't know what else you would call it.
The other side can pretend that they're protecting the life of fetus, but that fetus cannot survive outside of a woman's body. It's potential life. A possibility. For all you know, it wouldn't make it to term. You're forcing a women who doesn't want to be pregnant to be pregnant for the possibility, because you think that's better than the alternative of women having sex without consequences. If that child was never conceived in the first place it wouldn't exist. It's existence could mean some future child will never be born. These people are legislating what they think is best for women, because they don't trust women to make decisions for themselves. The government is not forcing women to get abortions. Women are choosing them with the medical advice of the doctors, and we should trust them to make the best decision for themselves at the time.
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| Posted 5/21/19 11:53 AM |
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eroxgirl
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Member since 5/05 15697 total posts
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Rebecca
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by RainyDay
My biggest concern would be about the quality of life of these kids will have after their mothers are forced to have them. If a woman is so casual about getting multiple abortions or they feel like they just cant handle raising a child, is it really responsible for us as a society or for our government to force them to bring a kid into the world? Do people honestly feel that once these women give birth a switch flips and these women become awesome parents?
People need to stop thinking about the "rights of a fetus" and start thinking about the quality of life of all these unwanted children coming into this world.
SOOOO MUCH THIS!!!
I mean, this whole "debate" is insane!! Do we care about PEOPLE?? I know we're all interested in babies. They're all cute, they make us smile, they're all helpless and we like to hold them and take pictures with them... but these babies that we're talking about forcing women to birth will likely grow into people. People who have had abusive and neglectful childhoods usually do not become productive, caring, helpful members of society. I can respect everyone's personal opinion on abortion - for or against. I can appreciate that this is distasteful at the very least, or that some will judge others for being flippant about abortion, or for being irresponsible. But there is something grossly irresponsible and amoral about the pro-life movement and these hateful, misogynistic laws that are being passed right now.
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| Posted 5/21/19 12:34 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Some of the arguments here don't make sense thou. Just like a fetus, a baby depends on it's mother to feed it, keep it warm and safe, etc. If a mom decided she didn't want that responsibility anymore she can not just decide to terminate that life, no matter what circumstances that baby was born under.
Further, there are plenty of unwanted babies born in horrible circumstances that will probably grow up to be less than productive members of society. You can't just say, hey maybe we should just terminate them in infancy before they grow up to the miserable lives they are destined for.
Ultimately the arguments come down to on one side the fact that the baby can not survive outside of the mother's womb and it's her decision if she wants to keep the baby in her womb. And then on the other side if you believe life begins at conception and that life is as important or potentially more important than what the owner of that womb would choose to do with it otherwise.
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| Posted 5/21/19 12:53 PM |
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eroxgirl
My Loves
Member since 5/05 15697 total posts
Name:
Rebecca
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by lululu
Further, there are plenty of unwanted babies born in horrible circumstances that will probably grow up to be less than productive members of society. You can't just say, hey maybe we should just terminate them in infancy before they grow up to the miserable lives they are destined for.
We already have girls throwing their newborns in garbage cans. Outlawing abortion is going to increase those stats. That's my point. Forcing women to have babies they don't want is going to increase the number of unproductive members of society. How is this good? How is this moral? How is this better? It is not. It sucks all around, but this is just not better.
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| Posted 5/21/19 1:06 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by lululu
Further, there are plenty of unwanted babies born in horrible circumstances that will probably grow up to be less than productive members of society. You can't just say, hey maybe we should just terminate them in infancy before they grow up to the miserable lives they are destined for.
We already have girls throwing their newborns in garbage cans. Outlawing abortion is going to increase those stats. That's my point. Forcing women to have babies they don't want is going to increase the number of unproductive members of society. How is this good? How is this moral? How is this better? It is not. It sucks all around, but this is just not better.
I agree. I am just pointing out some of the flaws in the previous arguments.
Listen I am not religious and I am pro-choice because I think as a society we NEED abortion to be legal and safe whether it is "moral" or not. I think that the way things are today if we criminalize abortion it will be a complete disaster all around.
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| Posted 5/21/19 1:14 PM |
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by lululu
Some of the arguments here don't make sense thou. Just like a fetus, a baby depends on it's mother to feed it, keep it warm and safe, etc. If a mom decided she didn't want that responsibility anymore she can not just decide to terminate that life, no matter what circumstances that baby was born under.
A baby doesn't depend on a mother to feed and care for it. A baby depends on a someone to feed and care for it. Any caregiver could do it - that's kind of how adoption works. So if a mother decided once the baby was born that she didn't want that responsibility, she can put the child up for adoption or drop it off at any safe haven location. The kid will survive without their mother.
That isn't an option with pregnancy. Mothers can't just hand over the fetus for someone else to carry. Their body is taken over for 9 months, and at the end of that 9 months, they need to give birth, which best case scenario means minor pelvic floor damage, worst case scenarios include major surgery, permanent pelvic floor damage, permanent abdominal damage, maternal death, etc. Pregnancy is not some easy result that is a minor inconvenience for being sexually active.
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| Posted 5/21/19 1:22 PM |
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eroxgirl
My Loves
Member since 5/05 15697 total posts
Name:
Rebecca
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by lululu
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by lululu
Further, there are plenty of unwanted babies born in horrible circumstances that will probably grow up to be less than productive members of society. You can't just say, hey maybe we should just terminate them in infancy before they grow up to the miserable lives they are destined for.
We already have girls throwing their newborns in garbage cans. Outlawing abortion is going to increase those stats. That's my point. Forcing women to have babies they don't want is going to increase the number of unproductive members of society. How is this good? How is this moral? How is this better? It is not. It sucks all around, but this is just not better.
I agree. I am just pointing out some of the flaws in the previous arguments.
Listen I am not religious and I am pro-choice because I think as a society we NEED abortion to be legal and safe whether it is "moral" or not. I think that the way things are today if we criminalize abortion it will be a complete disaster all around.
Agreed. And frankly, this is not only an effort to control women, it's yet another weapon to keep the poor poor. Wealthy people have always and will always have access to safe abortions. My dad worked in a hospital in the 60s before Roe v Wade... a wealthy businessman's daughter could always get her "problem" taken care of. The poor do not have safe alternatives. The whole thing is just vile.
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| Posted 5/21/19 1:24 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by starbrightgirl8
Posted by lululu
Some of the arguments here don't make sense thou. Just like a fetus, a baby depends on it's mother to feed it, keep it warm and safe, etc. If a mom decided she didn't want that responsibility anymore she can not just decide to terminate that life, no matter what circumstances that baby was born under.
A baby doesn't depend on a mother to feed and care for it. A baby depends on a someone to feed and care for it. Any caregiver could do it - that's kind of how adoption works. So if a mother decided once the baby was born that she didn't want that responsibility, she can put the child up for adoption or drop it off at any safe haven location. The kid will survive without their mother.
That isn't an option with pregnancy. Mothers can't just hand over the fetus for someone else to carry. Their body is taken over for 9 months, and at the end of that 9 months, they need to give birth, which best case scenario means minor pelvic floor damage, worst case scenarios include major surgery, permanent pelvic floor damage, permanent abdominal damage, maternal death, etc. Pregnancy is not some easy result that is a minor inconvenience for being sexually active.
Yes - that is why I went on to say this:
Ultimately the arguments come down to on one side the fact that the baby can not survive outside of the mother's womb and it's her decision if she wants to keep the baby in her womb.
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| Posted 5/21/19 1:57 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by lululu
Posted by eroxgirl
Posted by lululu
Further, there are plenty of unwanted babies born in horrible circumstances that will probably grow up to be less than productive members of society. You can't just say, hey maybe we should just terminate them in infancy before they grow up to the miserable lives they are destined for.
We already have girls throwing their newborns in garbage cans. Outlawing abortion is going to increase those stats. That's my point. Forcing women to have babies they don't want is going to increase the number of unproductive members of society. How is this good? How is this moral? How is this better? It is not. It sucks all around, but this is just not better.
I agree. I am just pointing out some of the flaws in the previous arguments.
Listen I am not religious and I am pro-choice because I think as a society we NEED abortion to be legal and safe whether it is "moral" or not. I think that the way things are today if we criminalize abortion it will be a complete disaster all around.
Agreed. And frankly, this is not only an effort to control women, it's yet another weapon to keep the poor poor. Wealthy people have always and will always have access to safe abortions. My dad worked in a hospital in the 60s before Roe v Wade... a wealthy businessman's daughter could always get her "problem" taken care of. The poor do not have safe alternatives. The whole thing is just vile.
I think it also has a lot to do with a religious agenda of our politicians. Frankly the poor do not have access to good education or healthcare so I think a lot of them already don't have easy access to abortions as it is.
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| Posted 5/21/19 2:02 PM |
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BriBri2u
L'amore vince sempre
Member since 5/05 9320 total posts
Name:
Mrs. B
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by MC09
Our government needs to GTFO with all this fake righteousness.
Why all the outrage for abortions, yet nothing about the thousands of kids killed each year by gunfire? In schools, on playgrounds, at home... What makes a fetus more important than a 5 year old pumped full of bullet holes? No, this isn't a rhetorical question. I'd really like an answer. I'd really like to know why all the outrage for the unborn and the silence for very real, very wanted children turned into mulch by firearms.
Why am I hearing more about abortions than kids being separated from their parents and dying in U.S. custody? Where's the outrage for these lost, unaccounted for, suffering, and in some cases dead children?
Why am I hearing more about a raped 11 year old being forced to carry a pregnancy and less about punishment for her uncle/rapist?
Why is the topic only about women? Why is there no speak of men taking responsibility for their offspring? Forced child support, punishment for abandonment?
Nothing says pro-life like sentencing a woman to death for having an abortion. Or investigating the shit out of a miscarriage to make sure an already distressed woman didn't plan it.
Why no talk about all the abused kids ALREADY in the foster care system with no hope of ever getting out until they age out on their own and go on to live in poverty and suffering as adults? Why add more to a broken system? Why are the people against a woman's right to choose not lining up to fill their loving homes with foster kids? Because talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.
Why are lawmakers, who keep proving they know nothing about the female anatomy and even less about basic biology, spreading falsehoods like implantion of ectopic pregnancies into the uterus?? These are the asinine people trying to govern uteruses??
Why in this country are fetuses more important than former fetuses?
And when you have a lawmaker say they're not interested in fertilized eggs in IVF clinics being destroyed because the woman isn't pregnant yet you have your answer.
In a perfect world every pregnancy is wanted and every child is loved and wanted, but we don't live in a perfect world and we have far more pressing issues that go ignored. I'm really curious for answers. Really curious to know why an unborn fetus has more rights than an already existing child equipped with its own heartbeat, completely independent of its mother's heartbeat. I'm trying to understand the thought process of the other side, because until I do I will be forced to believe the righteousness is fake and the hypocrisy is real.
YES!!!! OMG I can't LOVE this enough! You said it all
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| Posted 5/21/19 2:11 PM |
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MrsMick
Baby #2 debuts in March 2016!
Member since 9/09 1977 total posts
Name:
Michele
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Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Here are my two cents. I personally don’t think I could ever have an abortion. Fortunately, I never faced a situation where I needed to make the choice.
We have been finding more details of my family tree. I did find out I had a great great Aunt in Italy who died at 16 because her Mom gave her an abortion. If laws restrict this, more people will die.
I do not think the government should fund Planned Parenthood. My tax dollars should have nothing to do with it. We have health insurance and Doctors. If someone makes that choice for themselves, they should be fiscally responsible for it. This is their decision. Their choice that is between their doctor, family, and their own conscience.
I do feel though that with birth control and morning after pills though- people should be more responsible.
But again, it is not my choice so why should I have a say.
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| Posted 5/23/19 12:51 PM |
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Sash
Peace
Member since 6/08 10312 total posts
Name:
fka LIW Smara
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by MrsMick
Here are my two cents. I personally don’t think I could ever have an abortion. Fortunately, I never faced a situation where I needed to make the choice.
We have been finding more details of my family tree. I did find out I had a great great Aunt in Italy who died at 16 because her Mom gave her an abortion. If laws restrict this, more people will die.
I do not think the government should fund Planned Parenthood. My tax dollars should have nothing to do with it. We have health insurance and Doctors. If someone makes that choice for themselves, they should be fiscally responsible for it. This is their decision. Their choice that is between their doctor, family, and their own conscience.
I do feel though that with birth control and morning after pills though- people should be more responsible.
But again, it is not my choice so why should I have a say.
Health insurance does not cover abortions. If there is no funding or places like Planned Parenthood then you have a higher increase in unwanted children entering the foster system because it wouldn't be affordable for ladies to get help or contraceptives.
Not directed at this post, but I am curious why people are saying the poor does not have easy access to education and abortions?
I can only speak for NYC but I know they do teach sex education at school and hand out condoms. Also people do have access to clinics to get an abortion, it isn't hard to get an abortion. I guess if you can't afford the couple hundreds of dollars that would be an issue. But I don't think that is as common as it is being referred to on this thread.
Are we talking about in south/mid west states where they are more quiet about sex education?
Message edited 5/23/2019 2:22:53 PM.
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| Posted 5/23/19 2:22 PM |
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lululu
LIF Adult
Member since 7/05 9511 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by Sash
Posted by MrsMick
Here are my two cents. I personally don’t think I could ever have an abortion. Fortunately, I never faced a situation where I needed to make the choice.
We have been finding more details of my family tree. I did find out I had a great great Aunt in Italy who died at 16 because her Mom gave her an abortion. If laws restrict this, more people will die.
I do not think the government should fund Planned Parenthood. My tax dollars should have nothing to do with it. We have health insurance and Doctors. If someone makes that choice for themselves, they should be fiscally responsible for it. This is their decision. Their choice that is between their doctor, family, and their own conscience.
I do feel though that with birth control and morning after pills though- people should be more responsible.
But again, it is not my choice so why should I have a say.
Health insurance does not cover abortions. If there is no funding or places like Planned Parenthood then you have a higher increase in unwanted children entering the foster system because it wouldn't be affordable for ladies to get help or contraceptives.
Not directed at this post, but I am curious why people are saying the poor does not have easy access to education and abortions?
I can only speak for NYC but I know they do teach sex education at school and hand out condoms. Also people do have access to clinics to get an abortion, it isn't hard to get an abortion. I guess if you can't afford the couple hundreds of dollars that would be an issue. But I don't think that is as common as it is being referred to on this thread.
Are we talking about in south/mid west states where they are more quiet about sex education?
Yes - NYC is not an area that I am talking about. Of course everyone in NYC has easy access to abortions. And as far as education they are part of a large school system with plenty of funding. Think other places like Rural West Virginia.
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| Posted 5/23/19 6:00 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11487 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by MrsMick
Here are my two cents. I personally don’t think I could ever have an abortion. Fortunately, I never faced a situation where I needed to make the choice.
We have been finding more details of my family tree. I did find out I had a great great Aunt in Italy who died at 16 because her Mom gave her an abortion. If laws restrict this, more people will die.
I do not think the government should fund Planned Parenthood. My tax dollars should have nothing to do with it. We have health insurance and Doctors. If someone makes that choice for themselves, they should be fiscally responsible for it. This is their decision. Their choice that is between their doctor, family, and their own conscience.
I do feel though that with birth control and morning after pills though- people should be more responsible.
But again, it is not my choice so why should I have a say.
This argument makes zero sense. You say you have someone in your family that died at 16 because her mom did a termination on her.
Then you say we have health insurance, which does not cover terminations and sometimes it doesn’t cover birth control.
Then you go on to say that the person should be fiscally responsible for the choice that they make and that the gov’t shouldn’t cover PP.
So in your *privileged* world, how do you expect someone to take care of an unwanted pregnancy? In your *privileged* world people would not have access to other things that PP helps with (BC, etc.). Should they have the baby and then they go into foster care? Should they have the baby and be forced to take care of it and go on welfare? In your *privileged* world people want the people to have the baby and then they complain that these people go on welfare because they need financial help. Terminations are not cheap for someone who doesn’t earn a lot of money and if they have to go out of state, that costs even more money.
Let’s face it we all have sex. So what I’m hearing from you is that you need to be rich enough to have sex and afford to have the baby or be able to afford a termination? GTFO.
You don’t even mention anything about what the men’s role in this is. They are 50% of the sexual equation, yet a lot of them leave in the situation of pregnancy.
Go back to your bubble. Enjoy your privileged life. I hope you never fall on hard times and have to go through any of these experiences of not being able to afford any of the above options. So take your two cents and maybe give it to an organization that helps women or something. It’s obvious that you don’t care about women’s rights.
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| Posted 5/24/19 2:19 AM |
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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
Name:
Me speaks pirate!
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by MrsMick
Here are my two cents. I personally don’t think I could ever have an abortion. Fortunately, I never faced a situation where I needed to make the choice.
We have been finding more details of my family tree. I did find out I had a great great Aunt in Italy who died at 16 because her Mom gave her an abortion. If laws restrict this, more people will die.
I do not think the government should fund Planned Parenthood. My tax dollars should have nothing to do with it. We have health insurance and Doctors. If someone makes that choice for themselves, they should be fiscally responsible for it. This is their decision. Their choice that is between their doctor, family, and their own conscience.
I do feel though that with birth control and morning after pills though- people should be more responsible.
But again, it is not my choice so why should I have a say.
You can spin it any way you want, but in the end unwanted pregnancies end up being a societal problem one way or another whether we like it or not. Birth control and access to safe abortions are cheaper in the long term than caring for unwanted pregnancies that turn into unwanted children over the next 18+ years of their life. (The way the system is currently set up, chances are poor kids usually go on to become poor adults so you can rejoice in knowing this little person today will probably grow up to need assistance for the rest of their life. I mean, it's not every day you hear about the fortune 500 CEO growing up in the projects or conducting their first board meeting in a homeless shelter. Not to say it's not possible, just not a common occurence). Not to mention easy access to birth control, contraceptives, and sex education are the best way for any government to lower the rate of abortions naturally. It usually works better than, say, Uncle Sam rearing his giant head into people's bedrooms and scolding them into having anal sex to avoid making babies, or later scolding women into forcing their uterus to celebrate mother's day. And I know it's hard for some people to accept educating the public on the topic of sex, but chances are kids these days already know they have a weenus and a bearded clam, they just need a gentle reminder on how to wrap it up. So, it's a win-win for everyone, and society as a whole. Religious conservatives can stop shedding fake tears over dead fetuses they'll never plan to adopt or care for once actually born, non-religious ones can shut the hell up about all the money being drained from their personal wallet to fund lazy welfare kids born to lazy welfare mothers who then grow up to become lazy welfare mothers to more lazy welfare kids, as is the circle of life... and people have greater autonomy over their own fukcing lives. And no, not everyone has access to heath insurance, doctors, birth control, morning after pills what with all the restrictions already placed on these basic functions of any normal society. But, sure let's make these things even harder to obtain for economically disadvantaged people (cuz that'll show 'em amiright?) watch them jump through hoops, but then at least we get to complain about how much of a drain they are on the system for the next 20 years and everyone knows the biggest crux of the argument is that society really just wants to reserve their right to complain. Oh, and their ar-15s.
Besides, everyone knows the only acceptable way to kill an unborn fetus is with a gun. 
Message edited 5/24/2019 7:13:06 AM.
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| Posted 5/24/19 7:02 AM |
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RainyDay
LIF Adult
Member since 6/15 3990 total posts
Name:
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by MC09
Posted by MrsMick
Here are my two cents. I personally don’t think I could ever have an abortion. Fortunately, I never faced a situation where I needed to make the choice.
We have been finding more details of my family tree. I did find out I had a great great Aunt in Italy who died at 16 because her Mom gave her an abortion. If laws restrict this, more people will die.
I do not think the government should fund Planned Parenthood. My tax dollars should have nothing to do with it. We have health insurance and Doctors. If someone makes that choice for themselves, they should be fiscally responsible for it. This is their decision. Their choice that is between their doctor, family, and their own conscience.
I do feel though that with birth control and morning after pills though- people should be more responsible.
But again, it is not my choice so why should I have a say.
You can spin it any way you want, but in the end unwanted pregnancies end up being a societal problem one way or another whether we like it or not. Birth control and access to safe abortions are cheaper in the long term than caring for unwanted pregnancies that turn into unwanted children over the next 18+ years of their life. (The way the system is currently set up, chances are poor kids usually go on to become poor adults so you can rejoice in knowing this little person today will probably grow up to need assistance for the rest of their life. I mean, it's not every day you hear about the fortune 500 CEO growing up in the projects or conducting their first board meeting in a homeless shelter. Not to say it's not possible, just not a common occurence). Not to mention easy access to birth control, contraceptives, and sex education are the best way for any government to lower the rate of abortions naturally. It usually works better than, say, Uncle Sam rearing his giant head into people's bedrooms and scolding them into having anal sex to avoid making babies, or later scolding women into forcing their uterus to celebrate mother's day. And I know it's hard for some people to accept educating the public on the topic of sex, but chances are kids these days already know they have a weenus and a bearded clam, they just need a gentle reminder on how to wrap it up. So, it's a win-win for everyone, and society as a whole. Religious conservatives can stop shedding fake tears over dead fetuses they'll never plan to adopt or care for once actually born, non-religious ones can shut the hell up about all the money being drained from their personal wallet to fund lazy welfare kids born to lazy welfare mothers who then grow up to become lazy welfare mothers to more lazy welfare kids, as is the circle of life... and people have greater autonomy over their own fukcing lives. And no, not everyone has access to heath insurance, doctors, birth control, morning after pills what with all the restrictions already placed on these basic functions of any normal society. But, sure let's make these things even harder to obtain for economically disadvantaged people (cuz that'll show 'em amiright?) watch them jump through hoops, but then at least we get to complain about how much of a drain they are on the system for the next 20 years and everyone knows the biggest crux of the argument is that society really just wants to reserve their right to complain. Oh, and their ar-15s.
Besides, everyone knows the only acceptable way to kill an unborn fetus is with a gun.
"weenus and a bearded clam"
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| Posted 5/24/19 8:53 AM |
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LizD
LIF Adolescent
Member since 4/06 763 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Georgia and Missouri Anti-abortion Laws
Posted by MC09
Our government needs to GTFO with all this fake righteousness.
Why all the outrage for abortions, yet nothing about the thousands of kids killed each year by gunfire? In schools, on playgrounds, at home... What makes a fetus more important than a 5 year old pumped full of bullet holes? No, this isn't a rhetorical question. I'd really like an answer. I'd really like to know why all the outrage for the unborn and the silence for very real, very wanted children turned into mulch by firearms.
Why am I hearing more about abortions than kids being separated from their parents and dying in U.S. custody? Where's the outrage for these lost, unaccounted for, suffering, and in some cases dead children?
Why am I hearing more about a raped 11 year old being forced to carry a pregnancy and less about punishment for her uncle/rapist?
Why is the topic only about women? Why is there no speak of men taking responsibility for their offspring? Forced child support, punishment for abandonment?
Nothing says pro-life like sentencing a woman to death for having an abortion. Or investigating the shit out of a miscarriage to make sure an already distressed woman didn't plan it.
Why no talk about all the abused kids ALREADY in the foster care system with no hope of ever getting out until they age out on their own and go on to live in poverty and suffering as adults? Why add more to a broken system? Why are the people against a woman's right to choose not lining up to fill their loving homes with foster kids? Because talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.
Why are lawmakers, who keep proving they know nothing about the female anatomy and even less about basic biology, spreading falsehoods like implantion of ectopic pregnancies into the uterus?? These are the asinine people trying to govern uteruses??
Why in this country are fetuses more important than former fetuses?
And when you have a lawmaker say they're not interested in fertilized eggs in IVF clinics being destroyed because the woman isn't pregnant yet you have your answer.
In a perfect world every pregnancy is wanted and every child is loved and wanted, but we don't live in a perfect world and we have far more pressing issues that go ignored. I'm really curious for answers. Really curious to know why an unborn fetus has more rights than an already existing child equipped with its own heartbeat, completely independent of its mother's heartbeat. I'm trying to understand the thought process of the other side, because until I do I will be forced to believe the righteousness is fake and the hypocrisy is real.
perfectly said!!
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| Posted 5/24/19 9:42 AM |
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