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MrsMerlot
Unconditional Love
Member since 4/06 6005 total posts
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Chrissy
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I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
I'm Catholic, but a majority of religious knowledge is w/in the Lutheran sect of Christianity b/c I attended grade school there.
Is this true? Catholicism states that sex is meant for procreation and not for pleasure. Catholicism does not promote protected-sex? I know this may not apply to those who are more reformed...and applies more towards people who following Catholicism literally (fundamentally.)
I know there is a separation between religion and science but something occurred to me...and I'll state why I'm asking these questions after someone confirms the above is true for those that practice Catholicism (literally.)
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Posted 8/18/08 10:14 AM  |
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MrsPJB2007
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Strict Catholicism prohibits ANY type of birth control whatsoever.
Even the "withdrawal" method is considered forbidden.....since it stops the sperm from reaching the egg and possible conception.
BCP, "pulling out" & rythmn method--anything....is against Catholic dogma. Even boys masturbating is considered a no-no--because you are "spilling seed" that should be only deposited inside a woman to procreation purposes.
ETA: and in essence the idea of sex between a man & woman MUST occur only within the confines of marriages, because if you have sex, each time is an opportunity for life to occur and that can only happen when you are married. so techincally sex is really all about procreation in the Catholic religion.
Message edited 8/18/2008 10:18:20 AM.
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| Posted 8/18/08 10:16 AM |
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sfp0701
Liam's Mommy!
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Tricia
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
I was told in Pre-cana that the whole "sex is for procreation" thing is Bs and that the church doesn't believe that. Sex is a healthy part of a marriage, according to the church. The catholic church does support natural family planning. That is tracking your cycles and having sex on non-fertile days.
Matrabation is prohibited for boys and girls. I don't know if it because of spilling sperm but, I was just always told it was bad.
They don't believe in condoms or BCP or anything.
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| Posted 8/18/08 10:20 AM |
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HLT407
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Heather
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
sex is meant for pleasure within a marriage. It is a means of expressing love between DH and DW. There is an understanding that both husband and wife are willing to welcome a child should the woman become pregnant.
sex is not strictly for procreation. The church only "allows" Natural Family Planning- charting/temping/etc as a means of planning when to have a child- I have numerous pamphlets from PreCana if anyone is interested 
ETS masturbation is "bad" because you are enjoying the 'pleasure' of sex by yourself and not as a means of expressing love within a marriage. You are also not attempting to create a family
Message edited 8/18/2008 10:24:50 AM.
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| Posted 8/18/08 10:22 AM |
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MrsMerlot
Unconditional Love
Member since 4/06 6005 total posts
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Chrissy
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Thanks Mel...that's exactly what I thought...
Now, here's my question - how does the Catholic Church respond to orgasms? Are they part of the procreation process?
I guess I'm just questioning how religion (specifically Catholicism) identifies the physical response of sex...as in the science behind it...and if it's just for procreation, why would sex be pleasurable?
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| Posted 8/18/08 10:22 AM |
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HoneyBadger
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Edited since the first question was answered.
The church has nothing against orgasim. They're not saying sex can't be pleasurable when you do have it.
They're saying the only time you should have it is when you intend to have a child.
It can be pleasurable.
Message edited 8/18/2008 10:25:53 AM.
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| Posted 8/18/08 10:23 AM |
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sfp0701
Liam's Mommy!
Member since 1/07 9764 total posts
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Tricia
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Here this link should help clear it up a little.
Link
I found this also " in the Catechism of the Catholic Church 2360-2362:
2360: Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. Marriage bonds between baptized persons are sanctified by the sacrament.
2361: Sexuality, by means of which man and woman give themselves to one another through the acts which are proper and exclusive to spouses, is not something simply biological, but concerns the innermost being of the human person as such. It is realized in a truly human way only if it is an integral part of the love by which a man and woman commit themselves totally to one another until death.
2362: The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude. Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure: The creator himself...established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the creator has intended for them.
So, sex is intended by God to be pleasurable and life-giving. Not only physically life-giving, but also spiritually life-giving (spiritual communion) between spouses. But one cannot be had without the other. Personally, I think this is a beautiful way of looking at this issue."
(not my writing. I copied it from somewhere.)
Message edited 8/18/2008 10:28:26 AM.
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| Posted 8/18/08 10:24 AM |
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HLT407
So lucky
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Heather
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Posted by sfp0701
Here this link should help clear it up a little.
Link
good link!
A lot of people still believe that the church prohibits sex for pleasure. It's a huge misconception...
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| Posted 8/18/08 10:29 AM |
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MrsMerlot
Unconditional Love
Member since 4/06 6005 total posts
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Chrissy
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Posted by HLT407
Posted by sfp0701
Here this link should help clear it up a little.
Link
good link!
A lot of people still believe that the church prohibits sex for pleasure. It's a huge misconception...
Agree..and I'm one of them...I was under the WRONG impression that sex is not for pleasure.
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| Posted 8/18/08 10:30 AM |
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MrsPJB2007
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Posted by MrsMerlot
Thanks Mel...that's exactly what I thought...
Now, here's my question - how does the Catholic Church respond to orgasms? Are they part of the procreation process?
I guess I'm just questioning how religion (specifically Catholicism) identifies the physical response of sex...as in the science behind it...and if it's just for procreation, why would sex be pleasurable?
I think orgasms are totally okay and natural within the religion. While sex is a natural thing and a baby can be produced from sex---the religion as a whole understands that sex & love are natural within a marriage. Therefore an 0rgasm is healthy.
Sex & procreation go hand in hand for Catholics, BUT the the religion understands that sex will occur and that a baby won't be produced because sex is natural....so an 0rgasm can result without a baby, and that's totally okay. Its just the idea of making sure that the 0rgasm happens without any type of effort to prevent a baby....(charting and having sex on non-fertile days is okay).
ETA: i seriously can not believe the word O rgasm is **** out on here!
Message edited 8/18/2008 10:31:41 AM.
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| Posted 8/18/08 10:30 AM |
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HLT407
So lucky
Member since 11/07 1910 total posts
Name:
Heather
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Posted by MrsMerlot
Posted by HLT407
Posted by sfp0701
Here this link should help clear it up a little.
Link
good link!
A lot of people still believe that the church prohibits sex for pleasure. It's a huge misconception...
Agree..and I'm one of them...I was under the WRONG impression that sex is not for pleasure.
In my experience- I think its an old school thing & based on how you were raised. My mother was a "strict irish catholic" and sex was always dirty to her. My mothers family is notorious for scaring you into believing you will go to helll if you enjoy sex.. i really have no clue why LOL
My dads family- also practicing catholics- has a view of religion that is more 'balanced' for the lack of a better word. They express that sex is for marriage and when you are ready to accept a child- should a child come of it..
There are so many young people that use the whole sex argument as an means to justify not following catholicism as adults (among many other things)
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| Posted 8/18/08 10:38 AM |
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Kara
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Posted by Jennie0898
They're saying the only time you should have it is when you intend to have a child.
No, this is not what they are saying, as explained well by PPs.
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| Posted 8/18/08 10:39 AM |
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SweetTooth
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Member since 12/05 20105 total posts
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Lauren
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Posted by MrsMerlot
Thanks Mel...that's exactly what I thought...
Now, here's my question - how does the Catholic Church respond to orgasms? Are they part of the procreation process?
I guess I'm just questioning how religion (specifically Catholicism) identifies the physical response of sex...as in the science behind it...and if it's just for procreation, why would sex be pleasurable?
well, I am not sure about the religious aspect, but for the scientific reasoning - if it wasn't pleasureable, people wouldn't want to do it and then the species wouldn't continue.
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| Posted 8/18/08 10:40 AM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
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BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Posted by Kara
Posted by Jennie0898
They're saying the only time you should have it is when you intend to have a child.
No, this is not what they are saying, as explained well by PPs.
That's not entirely true. As stated (very well) by a PP:
So, sex is intended by God to be pleasurable and life-giving. Not only physically life-giving, but also spiritually life-giving (spiritual communion) between spouses. But one cannot be had without the other.
I read this as the intent of sex is to produce life. In addition, it is to be spritually life-giving. But the intent is to produce life.
This is my opinion.
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| Posted 8/18/08 11:35 AM |
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ILJ619
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Member since 6/06 1985 total posts
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Irene
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
I know you are specifically about Catholicism but I can also point you to the bible. People do not realize there is an entire chapter devoted to love and sex called the Song of Solomon. There you will see that God's intent was for sex to be pleasureable and orgasmic (therefore closer to God) his only sitpulation is that it remain within the confines of marriage. HTH 
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| Posted 8/18/08 1:28 PM |
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GioiaMia
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Posted by ilt1221
I know you are specifically about Catholicism but I can also point you to the bible. People do not realize there is an entire chapter devoted to love and sex called the Song of Solomon. There you will see that God's intent was for sex to be pleasureable and orgasmic (therefore closer to God) his only sitpulation is that it remain within the confines of marriage. HTH
I never knew that, I will have to look into that! Thanks for sharing.
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| Posted 8/18/08 1:31 PM |
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Kara
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Posted by Jennie0898
Posted by Kara
Posted by Jennie0898
They're saying the only time you should have it is when you intend to have a child.
No, this is not what they are saying, as explained well by PPs.
That's not entirely true. As stated (very well) by a PP:
So, sex is intended by God to be pleasurable and life-giving. Not only physically life-giving, but also spiritually life-giving (spiritual communion) between spouses. But one cannot be had without the other.
I read this as the intent of sex is to produce life. In addition, it is to be spritually life-giving. But the intent is to produce life.
This is my opinion.
If the Church's position is that the only time you're supposed to have sex is when you intend to have a child, then the Church wouldn't be promoting natural family planning as a form of birth control and would only want couples to have sex when the woman is fertile. The Church's position is that sex should be open to the creation of a life - that doesn't necessarily mean you can only have sex when you intend to create a life. There's a difference, IMHO.
At least, this is what I was taught in Catholic school (by a nun mind you - yeah, that was an interesting class...) I don't follow these teachings at all and actually disagree with many of them.
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| Posted 8/18/08 1:36 PM |
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Kara
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Here is the Catechism teaching on this, for anyone interested:
III. THE LOVE OF HUSBAND AND WIFE
2360 Sexuality is ordered to the conjugal love of man and woman. In marriage the physical intimacy of the spouses becomes a sign and pledge of spiritual communion. Marriage bonds between baptized persons are sanctified by the sacrament.
2361 "Sexuality, by means of which man and woman give themselves to one another through the acts which are proper and exclusive to spouses, is not something simply biological, but concerns the innermost being of the human person as such. It is realized in a truly human way only if it is an integral part of the love by which a man and woman commit themselves totally to one another until death."142
Tobias got out of bed and said to Sarah, "Sister, get up, and let us pray and implore our Lord that he grant us mercy and safety." So she got up, and they began to pray and implore that they might be kept safe. Tobias began by saying, "Blessed are you, O God of our fathers. . . . You made Adam, and for him you made his wife Eve as a helper and support. From the two of them the race of mankind has sprung. You said, 'It is not good that the man should be alone; let us make a helper for him like himself.' I now am taking this kinswoman of mine, not because of lust, but with sincerity. Grant that she and I may find mercy and that we may grow old together." And they both said, "Amen, Amen." Then they went to sleep for the night.143
2362 "The acts in marriage by which the intimate and chaste union of the spouses takes place are noble and honorable; the truly human performance of these acts fosters the self-giving they signify and enriches the spouses in joy and gratitude."144 Sexuality is a source of joy and pleasure:
The Creator himself . . . established that in the [generative] function, spouses should experience pleasure and enjoyment of body and spirit. Therefore, the spouses do nothing evil in seeking this pleasure and enjoyment. They accept what the Creator has intended for them. At the same time, spouses should know how to keep themselves within the limits of just moderation.145
2363 The spouses' union achieves the twofold end of marriage: the good of the spouses themselves and the transmission of life. These two meanings or values of marriage cannot be separated without altering the couple's spiritual life and compromising the goods of marriage and the future of the family.
The conjugal love of man and woman thus stands under the twofold obligation of fidelity and fecundity.
Conjugal fidelity
2364 The married couple forms "the intimate partnership of life and love established by the Creator and governed by his laws; it is rooted in the conjugal covenant, that is, in their irrevocable personal consent."146 Both give themselves definitively and totally to one another. They are no longer two; from now on they form one flesh. The covenant they freely contracted imposes on the spouses the obligation to preserve it as unique and indissoluble.147 "What therefore God has joined together, let not man put asunder."148
2365 Fidelity expresses constancy in keeping one's given word. God is faithful. The Sacrament of Matrimony enables man and woman to enter into Christ's fidelity for his Church. Through conjugal chastity, they bear witness to this mystery before the world.
St. John Chrysostom suggests that young husbands should say to their wives: I have taken you in my arms, and I love you, and I prefer you to my life itself. For the present life is nothing, and my most ardent dream is to spend it with you in such a way that we may be assured of not being separated in the life reserved for us. . . . I place your love above all things, and nothing would be more bitter or painful to me than to be of a different mind than you.149
The fecundity of marriage
2366 Fecundity is a gift, an end of marriage, for conjugal love naturally tends to be fruitful. A child does not come from outside as something added on to the mutual love of the spouses, but springs from the very heart of that mutual giving, as its fruit and fulfillment. So the Church, which is "on the side of life"150 teaches that "it is necessary that each and every marriage act remain ordered per se to the procreation of human life."151 "This particular doctrine, expounded on numerous occasions by the Magisterium, is based on the inseparable connection, established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break, between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act."152
2367 Called to give life, spouses share in the creative power and fatherhood of God.153 "Married couples should regard it as their proper mission to transmit human life and to educate their children; they should realize that they are thereby cooperating with the love of God the Creator and are, in a certain sense, its interpreters. They will fulfill this duty with a sense of human and Christian responsibility."154
2368 A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover, they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality:
When it is a question of harmonizing married love with the responsible transmission of life, the morality of the behavior does not depend on sincere intention and evaluation of motives alone; but it must be determined by objective criteria, criteria drawn from the nature of the person and his acts criteria that respect the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love; this is possible only if the virtue of married chastity is practiced with sincerity of heart.155
2369 "By safeguarding both these essential aspects, the unitive and the procreative, the conjugal act preserves in its fullness the sense of true mutual love and its orientation toward man's exalted vocation to parenthood."156
2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.157 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, "every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible" is intrinsically evil:158
Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.159
2371 "Let all be convinced that human life and the duty of transmitting it are not limited by the horizons of this life only: their true evaluation and full significance can be understood only in reference to man's eternal destiny."160
2372 The state has a responsibility for its citizens' well-being. In this capacity it is legitimate for it to intervene to orient the demography of the population. This can be done by means of objective and respectful information, but certainly not by authoritarian, coercive measures. The state may not legitimately usurp the initiative of spouses, who have the primary responsibility for the procreation and education of their children.161 In this area, it is not authorized to employ means contrary to the moral law.
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| Posted 8/18/08 1:56 PM |
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Cpt2007
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Liz
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Posted by Kara
If the Church's position is that the only time you're supposed to have sex is when you intend to have a child, then the Church wouldn't be promoting natural family planning as a form of birth control and would only want couples to have sex when the woman is fertile. The Church's position is that sex should be open to the creation of a life - that doesn't necessarily mean you can only have sex when you intend to create a life. There's a difference, IMHO.
ITA.
In our pre-cana course we discussed the concept of "sacramental sex," meaning that you don't just receive/give each other the sacrament of marriage on your one wedding day, but that in every part of your marriage, whether it be during sex, making each other dinner, helping each other, raising your family together, etc, you are making and renewing your sacrament each time.
In marriage, you commit yourself before God to each other, and through your marriage, and the activities therein, you try to be closer to God. Sex can be a spiritual experience, and doesn't mean that you should only have it when you are TTC.
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| Posted 8/18/08 2:09 PM |
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watersdeb04
Back to school is here
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Deb
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
You may be hearing pre-Vatican II theology. The Catholic church went through changes after Vatican II. I don't know if that would effect it. Also, being Lutheran I know that the Lutheran church's feelings towards Catholics have evolved. I've been a Lutheran all my life and when I was younger the Catholics in my school looked down on me and called me Satanic. That attitude is completely different now.
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| Posted 8/18/08 8:47 PM |
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JenniferEver
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Posted by Cpt2007
Posted by Kara
If the Church's position is that the only time you're supposed to have sex is when you intend to have a child, then the Church wouldn't be promoting natural family planning as a form of birth control and would only want couples to have sex when the woman is fertile. The Church's position is that sex should be open to the creation of a life - that doesn't necessarily mean you can only have sex when you intend to create a life. There's a difference, IMHO.
ITA.
In our pre-cana course we discussed the concept of "sacramental sex," meaning that you don't just receive/give each other the sacrament of marriage on your one wedding day, but that in every part of your marriage, whether it be during sex, making each other dinner, helping each other, raising your family together, etc, you are making and renewing your sacrament each time.
In marriage, you commit yourself before God to each other, and through your marriage, and the activities therein, you try to be closer to God. Sex can be a spiritual experience, and doesn't mean that you should only have it when you are TTC.
ITA
In fact I just read an article in a Catholic journal trying to clear up the misconception and say that sex is SUPPOSED to be pleasurable, but you should not exclude God/creation from it with artificial BC. However, the church strongly promotes NFP. It is definitely NOT for procreation alone.
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| Posted 8/19/08 11:23 AM |
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imagin916
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Valerie
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Posted by MrsPJB2007
Strict Catholicism prohibits ANY type of birth control whatsoever.
Even the "withdrawal" method is considered forbidden.....since it stops the sperm from reaching the egg and possible conception.
BCP, "pulling out" & rythmn method--anything....is against Catholic dogma. Even boys masturbating is considered a no-no--because you are "spilling seed" that should be only deposited inside a woman to procreation purposes.
ETA: and in essence the idea of sex between a man & woman MUST occur only within the confines of marriages, because if you have sex, each time is an opportunity for life to occur and that can only happen when you are married. so techincally sex is really all about procreation in the Catholic religion.
It is exactly the same for religous Jews as well, although religious jewish women are allowed to use the pill if they have the permission of their Rabbi.
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| Posted 8/19/08 11:58 AM |
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Kara
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Re: I have a question about Catholicism (not meant for drama)
Posted by imagin916
Posted by MrsPJB2007
Strict Catholicism prohibits ANY type of birth control whatsoever.
Even the "withdrawal" method is considered forbidden.....since it stops the sperm from reaching the egg and possible conception.
BCP, "pulling out" & rythmn method--anything....is against Catholic dogma. Even boys masturbating is considered a no-no--because you are "spilling seed" that should be only deposited inside a woman to procreation purposes.
ETA: and in essence the idea of sex between a man & woman MUST occur only within the confines of marriages, because if you have sex, each time is an opportunity for life to occur and that can only happen when you are married. so techincally sex is really all about procreation in the Catholic religion.
It is exactly the same for religous Jews as well, although religious jewish women are allowed to use the pill if they have the permission of their Rabbi.
What Mrs. PJB2007 said is not entirely accurate re: Catholicism. Natural Family Planning basically IS the rhtym method and is a form of birth control advocated by the Church for married couples. It is NOT considered an artificial form of birth control that the church condemns. There are posts above which have more detailed information about this common misconception.
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| Posted 8/19/08 12:32 PM |
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