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BargainMama
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by PrincessP
2) Mental illness and special needs are VERY often comorbid - it is very, very common for a person with special needs (such as Autism Spectrum) to also have diagnosed or undiagnosed depression, OCD, etc. My master's thesis was actually about the higher risk and comorbidity of Autism Spectrum Disorders and mental illnesses.
Of course having one does not always mean a person will have the other, but they do often go hand in hand and it could be useful to address both issues in conjunction.
ETA: I just want to add, from what we currently know, I 100% agree that there should not have been guns in the home where this man lived.
That doesn't make them shoot up a bunch of first graders. IMO issues such as autism and downs are entirely different than someone with psychotic, violent issues. and yes I know there ARE people with autism that DO have violent tendencies. The thought process and planning that goes into such a horrid act seems entirely too complex for someone with true special needs though (autism, downs, etc.).
People are just looking for a connection. It can't be just as simple as the b@stard was a monster, who had easy access to guns in the home, and was encouraged into violence with trips to the shooting range.
If those guns weren't in the home, I think 27 people would still be alive today. Whole other topic though.
Sorry, messed up the quoting and can't fix it!
Message edited 12/16/2012 6:21:50 PM.
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Posted 12/16/12 6:13 PM  |
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Goobster
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by PrincessP
Posted by CookiePuss
Then why did Adam Lanza's mother have an assault rifle and hand guns in the house? I agree that mental illness in America needs to be addressed and the stigma removed as well as funding for resources but what bothers me so much about this article is the fact that had the family known of a tendencies for violent outbursts, why the H E L L were there any guns in a home where he lived?
Oh I TOTALLY agree! Furthermore, this wasnt about health insurance and how they couldnt afford to get help for their son. C'mon now. I am leaving it at that bc we could go into so much more about how financially wealthy this family was. This was a case of parenting. The parents knew way before Friday that he needed help.
I agree. I cant wrap my head around why this woman needed so many guns in the home. WHY? And to encourage violence by taking her children to shooting range (if true)? To me this seems like the mother alone had to be OFF mentally to feel the need to possess such weapons in the home. To me, she is as much accountable for these peoples deaths just b/c I find NO reason for anyone to possess weapons that can result in mass murders. I know she is gone and honestly, I really dont feel much sadness for her, sorry to say.
Message edited 12/16/2012 6:21:21 PM.
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| Posted 12/16/12 6:20 PM |
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Goobster
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by PrincessP
How is it that special needs children are being crossed with children with mental illness? Two entirely different issues. Just bc someone has down syndrome and is placed in a residentail facility does not mean they have mental illness. Clearly, Adam Lanza was not a child with just a special need. They named all kinds of mental illnesses that went along with his DX. Yet, his parents still chose to have a house full of guns and take him to shooting ranges. Sounds like a plan.
This is my point all along too!!! If you KNOW your son has issues, WHY would you possess and assist in having weapons he could kill MASSIVE amts of people with? WHY? What is wrong with her, the mother??????
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| Posted 12/16/12 6:22 PM |
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zaidam
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by MorningCuppaCoffee
As for for adults, housing programs are extremely hard to find and often have huge wait lists for YEARS.
I am personally vouching that this is the case today. I have personal knowledge of a family begging and pleading for housing for their mentally ill adult child (mid 30's). They are told the following on any given day:
a. the person doesn't qualify for housing because they are not sick enough.
b. they are currently abusing alcohol and their insurance (private insurance) doesn't pay for rehab, therefore they cannot qualify for a day program that fits their needs.
c. there is a 5 year waiting list for housing.
The person has a caseworker, an ACT team, psychiatrist, therapist, and many advocates. This person's parent's are elderly and there are no siblings. This family is in danger of their child becoming homeless if the parents pass away before securing housing for their child. I'm sure this is not the only case out there like this.
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| Posted 12/16/12 6:26 PM |
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MandJZ
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by BargainMama
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by PrincessP
2) Mental illness and special needs are VERY often comorbid - it is very, very common for a person with special needs (such as Autism Spectrum) to also have diagnosed or undiagnosed depression, OCD, etc. My master's thesis was actually about the higher risk and comorbidity of Autism Spectrum Disorders and mental illnesses.
Of course having one does not always mean a person will have the other, but they do often go hand in hand and it could be useful to address both issues in conjunction.
ETA: I just want to add, from what we currently know, I 100% agree that there should not have been guns in the home where this man lived.
That doesn't make them shoot up a bunch of first graders. IMO issues such as autism and downs are entirely different than someone with psychotic, violent issues. and yes I know there ARE people with autism that DO have violent tendencies. The thought process and planning that goes into such a horrid act seems entirely too complex for someone with true special needs though (autism, downs, etc.).
People are just looking for a connection. It can't be just as simple as the b@stard was a monster, who had easy access to guns in the home, and was encouraged into violence with trips to the shooting range.
If those guns weren't in the home, I think 27 people would still be alive today. Whole other topic though.
Sorry, messed up the quoting and can't fix it!
I don't disagree about guns. I also don't disagree about special needs vs. mental illness. The question was posed as to why people seem to lump special needs and mental illness into one category and I was simply trying to explain why that might happen. It's like saying there is 'cancer', and then there is 'breast cancer' or 'pancreatic cancer' etc. There is 'mental health', and under that umbrella term there is 'special needs', 'mental illness - depression, anxiety, etc.' and 'psychosis', so on and so forth. That was really my only point. An individual COULD have more than one, but that isn't always the case.
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| Posted 12/16/12 6:31 PM |
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Mental Illness in America
Not sure how much I can contribute to this topic as its not my background but when I think of the columbine shooters who we found out later were depressed, it made me think of how severe depression and all that comes with it can be hard to be suspected by parents. Teens and young adults are notorious for being moody, withdrawn, ect.
This Lanza mother seemed to successfully raise her older son who entered the workforce after college and Adam Lanza was incredibly intelligent, per reports. I would assume if he had any issues, she sounds like the kind of woman who would have noticed or gotten him help, judging by what people who knew her have been saying.
I think it's hard for any parent to look at their child and think they'd be capable of this..especially if any tell-tale signs were hidden.
I also find it interesting that these crimes seem to be perpetuated by young white, middle or upper middle class young men from otherwise normal families. Not sure what that means, but something I've noticed over time.
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| Posted 12/16/12 6:34 PM |
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Re: Mental Illness in America
I think he ( and maybe even his mother) had something along the lines of Schizophrenia. I would hate to see children on the spectrum of autism & aspergers be looked at differently ( or dangerously) because this is what the media is labeling him with. I find it odd that the father and brother have kept their distance from them 2 the past couple of years, they mustve knew they were off their rocker.
Is it true that he attempted to break into the school earlier in the week? I dont know why they didnt have better security, they dont even mention anything about school security guards involved. Even in the 80's my school had security guards, and this is a well off area in CT that could def afford to have it. And why didnt the cops get inside before 10:30 ( unless im mistaken) what the hell where the cops doing for 50 mins. They said it started at 9:40 and ended at 10:30 when he killed himself, the cops could of been there in minutes so what was going on that whole time?
Message edited 12/16/2012 6:38:35 PM.
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| Posted 12/16/12 6:35 PM |
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PrincessP
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Did they ever find out what moms true career was? I was shocked to see that it took them almost a day to figure out she wasnt a teacher. Wouldnt the uncle, brother or husband be able to report at least that part of the situation? I wasnt able to catch alot of the beginning bc my children were around and I couldnt turn on the news.
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| Posted 12/16/12 7:37 PM |
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Re: Mental Illness in America
From what I heard she was unemployed and volunteered as a aid at the school. They lived in a mansion so maybe she had money from divorce settlement and came from money so she didnt have a need for a career.
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| Posted 12/16/12 7:47 PM |
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BargainMama
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Re: Mental Illness in America
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nancy-lanza-feared-son-adam-worse-article-1.1221505
This article says she was an avid hunter, and that is why she had the guns. I see now where the blame will go. To the medication he was on.
"She had “at least a dozen” firearms — mainly larger rifles,” the friend added. He said he didn’t know anything about the pistols."
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nancy-lanza-feared-son-adam-worse-article-1.1221505#ixzz2FGYWbAkI
Message edited 12/16/2012 7:49:53 PM.
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| Posted 12/16/12 7:49 PM |
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by BargainMama
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nancy-lanza-feared-son-adam-worse-article-1.1221505
This article says she was an avid hunter, and that is why she had the guns. I see now where the blame will go. To the medication he was on.
"She had “at least a dozen” firearms — mainly larger rifles,” the friend added. He said he didn’t know anything about the pistols."
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nancy-lanza-feared-son-adam-worse-article-1.1221505#ixzz2FGYWbAkI
I don't know about anyone else, but I don't know any gun-loving moms that have drinking buddies. Moms that love to hunt and collect guns?
She's worried about her son, he was never violent, but he was burning himself... With all of that, she thinks it's a good idea to teach him how to be a responsible gun owner, and how to use a semi-automatic assault rifle and a dozen other guns.
I feel horrible that I don't sympathize with her a little more. I think there is more to this woman than a fun loving mom.
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| Posted 12/16/12 8:07 PM |
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Mental Illness in America
I don't want to sit and pass judgement on this woman who just passed at the hands of her son.
It also doesn't strike me as odd that this woman loved guns and may have shown her son how to be responsible with them.
SARAH PALIN loves guns and hunting, right? What does that say about her?
Would this be different if it was his father who had a gun collection, went to the range often, and taught the son gun safety?
All of this does not in any way make me feel any less bad for her or make me place any blame on her. Not yet, anyway.
And this kid was 20, not 14. He was a man. I blame him entirely, mental illness or not.
Message edited 12/16/2012 8:25:38 PM.
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| Posted 12/16/12 8:24 PM |
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MrsYank
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Re: Mental Illness in America
While that article has some valid points I can't help compare to the incident that happened in China (the same day) where I would presume a "mentally deranged" man entered a school to attack children..... With a knife. Total deaths? 0 .....
Message edited 12/16/2012 9:24:39 PM.
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| Posted 12/16/12 8:59 PM |
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lynnd126
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Member since 3/11 2630 total posts
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by PrincessP
How is it that special needs children are being crossed with children with mental illness? Two entirely different issues. Just bc someone has down syndrome and is placed in a residentail facility does not mean they have mental illness. Clearly, Adam Lanza was not a child with just a special need. They named all kinds of mental illnesses that went along with his DX. Yet, his parents still chose to have a house full of guns and take him to shooting ranges. Sounds like a plan.
Not sure if you were referring to my post but I specifically said I was not making a comparison like that, only noting that my neighbor who needed residential treatment for her son (in general) was able to have him placed.
Message edited 12/16/2012 9:25:51 PM.
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| Posted 12/16/12 9:22 PM |
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hotsauce345
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by greenybeans
Posted by BargainMama
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nancy-lanza-feared-son-adam-worse-article-1.1221505
This article says she was an avid hunter, and that is why she had the guns. I see now where the blame will go. To the medication he was on.
"She had “at least a dozen” firearms — mainly larger rifles,” the friend added. He said he didn’t know anything about the pistols."
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nancy-lanza-feared-son-adam-worse-article-1.1221505#ixzz2FGYWbAkI
I don't know about anyone else, but I don't know any gun-loving moms that have drinking buddies. Moms that love to hunt and collect guns?
I'm sorry, I don't want to turn this into another gun debate but I'm getting really annoyed. This is such a judgemental close minded comment. I am a mom, I enjoy shooting guns. I have no criminal history, I do not do any drugs, I RARELY even drink. Even in a social setting I will rarely have more than 2 drinks. Everybody who knows me describes me as very calm and laid back and even attribute my sons good, calm behavior to how calm I am. I REALLY REALLY hate these judgemental assumptions that anyone who uses or enjoys guns MUST be off kilter
I'm sorry but not ALL moms get their personal enjoyment solely from playdates and baking for "class mom"
Message edited 12/16/2012 9:30:45 PM.
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| Posted 12/16/12 9:28 PM |
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Goobster
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by greenybeans
She's worried about her son, he was never violent, but he was burning himself... With all of that, she thinks it's a good idea to teach him how to be a responsible gun owner, and how to use a semi-automatic assault rifle and a dozen other guns.
I feel horrible that I don't sympathize with her a little more. I think there is more to this woman than a fun loving mom.
I agree with this. Themore I read, the angrier I get at HER for owning these mass killing weapons that her son, who had issues (whatever they were) had ACCESS to. And think of this, what if it were NOT her son, but someone who broke into her home and stole them and used them on neighbors to break in, anyone while driving a getaway car after a crime, etc? KWIM? I think weapons like these should NOT be for the general public to own. For what reason would someone need to own so MANY deadly weapons that could kill MASSES of people?
So sorry, no sympathy for her, "victim" or not. She sounds extremely irresponsible and irrational to me, from the little I am hearing, to own such weapons with a son who has issues in the home. Or just in general to own them, knowing anyone could break and steal her weapons and use them on neighbors, etc.
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| Posted 12/16/12 9:40 PM |
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CookiePuss
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by MrsYank
While that article has some valid points I can't help compare to the incident that happened in China (the same day) where I would presume a "mentally deranged" man entered a school to attack children..... With a knife. Total deaths? 0 .....
I agree..I have some of the same feelings. I feel that had it not been a semi automatic rifle and just the handguns, I don't think there would have been as many causalities and some shot may have lived.
I really don't understand the NEED or REASON for a person living in a suburb to own a semi automatic rifle styled after semi automatics used in modern day warfare? Why would anyone need a firearm like that?
Message edited 12/16/2012 9:44:10 PM.
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| Posted 12/16/12 9:43 PM |
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Goobster
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by CookiePuss
Posted by MrsYank
While that article has some valid points I can't help compare to the incident that happened in China (the same day) where I would presume a "mentally deranged" man entered a school to attack children..... With a knife. Total deaths? 0 .....
I agree..I have some of the same feelings. I feel that had it not been a semi automatic rifle and just the handguns, I don't think there would have been as many causalities and some shot may have lived.
I really don't understand the NEED or REASON for a person living in a suburb to own a semi automatic rifle styled after semi automatics used in modern day warfare? Why would anyone need a firearm like that?
I agree. Sorry if this offends anyone but it's sick IMO to live in the suburbs and somehow feel this strong desire to possess many weapons that can kill so many. A handgun, that is one thing but multiple weapons that can easily kill many at once, irresponsible and ODD if you ask me.
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| Posted 12/16/12 9:47 PM |
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hotsauce345
my love, my life, my son
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by Goobster
Posted by CookiePuss
Posted by MrsYank
While that article has some valid points I can't help compare to the incident that happened in China (the same day) where I would presume a "mentally deranged" man entered a school to attack children..... With a knife. Total deaths? 0 .....
I agree..I have some of the same feelings. I feel that had it not been a semi automatic rifle and just the handguns, I don't think there would have been as many causalities and some shot may have lived.
I really don't understand the NEED or REASON for a person living in a suburb to own a semi automatic rifle styled after semi automatics used in modern day warfare? Why would anyone need a firearm like that?
I agree. Sorry if this offends anyone but it's sick IMO to live in the suburbs and somehow feel this strong desire to possess many weapons that can kill so many. A handgun, that is one thing but multiple weapons that can easily kill many at once, irresponsible and ODD if you ask me.
nm...i don't want to argue...I'll never change your mind anyway
Message edited 12/16/2012 9:58:54 PM.
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| Posted 12/16/12 9:52 PM |
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PrincessP
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by MrsMeloyellow
Posted by greenybeans
Posted by BargainMama
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nancy-lanza-feared-son-adam-worse-article-1.1221505
This article says she was an avid hunter, and that is why she had the guns. I see now where the blame will go. To the medication he was on.
"She had “at least a dozen” firearms — mainly larger rifles,” the friend added. He said he didn’t know anything about the pistols."
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nancy-lanza-feared-son-adam-worse-article-1.1221505#ixzz2FGYWbAkI
I don't know about anyone else, but I don't know any gun-loving moms that have drinking buddies. Moms that love to hunt and collect guns?
I'm sorry, I don't want to turn this into another gun debate but I'm getting really annoyed. This is such a judgemental close minded comment. I am a mom, I enjoy shooting guns. I have no criminal history, I do not do any drugs, I RARELY even drink. Even in a social setting I will rarely have more than 2 drinks. Everybody who knows me describes me as very calm and laid back and even attribute my sons good, calm behavior to how calm I am. I REALLY REALLY hate these judgemental assumptions that anyone who uses or enjoys guns MUST be off kilter
I'm sorry but not ALL moms get their personal enjoyment solely from playdates and baking for "class mom"
Can you honestly say that this mom thought her son had no issues and was a perfect angel??? No one is asking you to sing cumbaya at a playdate BUT if you have a child living with you that has a DX of mental issues, you may want to keep the guns clear of your home. To me this shows her mental incompetency. Maybe she should have went to a psych ward and taught a bunch of people there her love for guns.
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| Posted 12/16/12 10:44 PM |
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hotsauce345
my love, my life, my son
Member since 1/09 4169 total posts
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Melody
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by PrincessP
Posted by MrsMeloyellow
Posted by greenybeans
Posted by BargainMama
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nancy-lanza-feared-son-adam-worse-article-1.1221505
This article says she was an avid hunter, and that is why she had the guns. I see now where the blame will go. To the medication he was on.
"She had “at least a dozen” firearms — mainly larger rifles,” the friend added. He said he didn’t know anything about the pistols."
Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/nancy-lanza-feared-son-adam-worse-article-1.1221505#ixzz2FGYWbAkI
I don't know about anyone else, but I don't know any gun-loving moms that have drinking buddies. Moms that love to hunt and collect guns?
I'm sorry, I don't want to turn this into another gun debate but I'm getting really annoyed. This is such a judgemental close minded comment. I am a mom, I enjoy shooting guns. I have no criminal history, I do not do any drugs, I RARELY even drink. Even in a social setting I will rarely have more than 2 drinks. Everybody who knows me describes me as very calm and laid back and even attribute my sons good, calm behavior to how calm I am. I REALLY REALLY hate these judgemental assumptions that anyone who uses or enjoys guns MUST be off kilter
I'm sorry but not ALL moms get their personal enjoyment solely from playdates and baking for "class mom"
Can you honestly say that this mom thought her son had no issues and was a perfect angel??? No one is asking you to sing cumbaya at a playdate BUT if you have a child living with you that has a DX of mental issues, you may want to keep the guns clear of your home. To me this shows her mental incompetency. Maybe she should have went to a psych ward and taught a bunch of people there her love for guns.
READ what I quoted...what YOU said and what the person I quoted said are two different things. You are speaking specifically in regards to Nancy Lanza...the person I quoted is not. That person made a blanket statement and generalization about moms and guns in general.
Message edited 12/16/2012 10:58:26 PM.
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| Posted 12/16/12 10:55 PM |
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Xelindrya
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by tara73
I've been saying for years that the cuts to mental health care are affecting us as a society in a negative way. It's great and such a wonderful thing to believe that we can save every person, that we have come "so far" with treatment plans and medications. That intensive therapy and day treatment programs and community based group homes are enough.
The fact is, they're not. Some people need to be put into long term care in a hospital setting. Sad, but true. There are people who can not function in society. They lash out and become violent and dangerous to themselves and others. They're not just "harmless" people who have an illness, they're ticking time bombs.
We can't save everyone. We don't have the knowledge, understanding or ability on how the mind truly works. It's a novel concept to keep certain people out in society under the guise of "freedom" and "human rights" but there exists a segment of the population who simply do not belong out of institutions.
We should not have to wait until they start committing felonies to get them treatment. Jail shouldn't be the only option available. There needs to be a safe place for them to be able to function and thrive while getting the treatment they need. But, if they can't thrive in that safe place, if they are routinely non compliant with meds, if they are unable to gain control over their illness and not have violent outbursts then they simply do not belong in the general population, not only for the public's safety but for their own too.
Further, we need to push insurers to pay for appropriate mental health treatment and continue to educate people to remove stigmas surrounding it. Help parents like the author in the above to get their children appropriate treatment BEFORE they get to the point of no return (criminality).
Continued cuts to mental health budgets don't serve any good to society. We can't continue to let these children become violent criminals and clog up jails. We're failing our mentally ill population.
True. I have a family member I am terrified of. But I know the family could never just hand him over. It would feel like we let him down. Yes, we realize the safety of others is paramount but its a difficult struggle.
The family member has been treated with caution since a child. Now as an adult, who pays the price?
Oh and insurance wasn't the issue. I hated hearing that they let him go without his meds in the summer because he wasn't around many others. 
Reality is very difficult. I'm not making excuses. Its shameful but true.
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| Posted 12/17/12 1:00 AM |
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MrsFlatbread
Skinny jeans are in my future
Member since 6/06 10258 total posts
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Baby Momma
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Re: Mental Illness in America
I feel the need to say this:
The more we criminalize mental illness, the more of these issues we will see. Why? Because people will be fearful that others will consider them evil and violent if it is discovered they are mentall ill. Individuals will not want to seek treatment and families will hide their loved ones' illness and forgo treatment bc of sterotypes. People who need treatment will not get it. And yes, most often people with mental issues often are the ones that are responsible for crimes such as these, being mentally ill does not statistically make anyone more prone to events like this. I suspect the mother was trying to keep her son protected from the label of 'mental illness.' So sad.
My heart goes out to all of the families.
Message edited 12/17/2012 8:27:47 AM.
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| Posted 12/17/12 6:53 AM |
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sometimesmommy
Always in my heart.....
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
I don't want to sit and pass judgement on this woman who just passed at the hands of her son.
It also doesn't strike me as odd that this woman loved guns and may have shown her son how to be responsible with them.
SARAH PALIN loves guns and hunting, right? What does that say about her?
Would this be different if it was his father who had a gun collection, went to the range often, and taught the son gun safety?
All of this does not in any way make me feel any less bad for her or make me place any blame on her. Not yet, anyway.
And this kid was 20, not 14. He was a man. I blame him entirely, mental illness or not.
I blame Adam but understand he had a mental illness. I also place blame on his mother. I doubt this kid was a perfect gem and didnt exhibit signs before. My DH said that with the stigma mental illness has and being in an affluent community, he wouldnt be surprised if she did her best to cover it up and shield him. Thinking it was the best way to handle and thus put herself at risk and now ultimately 26 innocent beings who died not knowing why.
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| Posted 12/17/12 8:32 AM |
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MrsFlatbread
Skinny jeans are in my future
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Re: Mental Illness in America
Posted by sometimesmommy
My DH said that with the stigma mental illness has and being in an affluent community, he wouldnt be surprised if she did her best to cover it up and shield him. Thinking it was the best way to handle and thus put herself at risk and now ultimately 26 innocent beings who died not knowing why.
while this may be true, no mother could ever think their child, mentally ill or not, would ever do such a thing.
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| Posted 12/17/12 8:57 AM |
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