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nov04libride
big brother <3
Member since 5/05 14672 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
I moved to Long Island after college and after spending the weekend upstate I realized I don't like who it is forcing me to become. It is very congested and busy. When driving I have become one of those people who honk when the light turns green, who don't let people in because no one ever lets me in when you want to make a turn...People in stores are not friendly or helpful...I met DH here, and for now both of our jobs are here, but I do worry about what my children would grow up to become if we did have children here. I would worry about raising kids in a land of conspicuos consumption. I was at Coach last weekend and half the people in there looked under 15! I was kind of sad to come back. My job would be paying the same amount anywhere in NY state (I have a state job), but I know that if I got the same job in FL it would be much less. My aunt and uncle live in FL and he is a successful lawyer, but makes maybe 1/5 of what my brother makes as a lawyer in NYC. My cousins in FL all went to private schools because the system where they live is not the best, but maybe there are some good pockets of districts. I know many of the elderly residents fight raising taxes for school improvements in many of the areas.
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Posted 6/13/05 2:00 PM  |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by nov04libride
I moved to Long Island after college and after spending the weekend upstate I realized I don't like who it is forcing me to become. It is very congested and busy. When driving I have become one of those people who honk when the light turns green, who don't let people in because no one ever lets me in when you want to make a turn...People in stores are not friendly or helpful...I met DH here, and for now both of our jobs are here, but I do worry about what my children would grow up to become if we did have children here. I would worry about raising kids in a land of conspicuos consumption. I was at Coach last weekend and half the people in there looked under 15! I was kind of sad to come back. My job would be paying the same amount anywhere in NY state (I have a state job), but I know that if I got the same job in FL it would be much less. My aunt and uncle live in FL and he is a successful lawyer, but makes maybe 1/5 of what my brother makes as a lawyer in NYC. My cousins in FL all went to private schools because the system where they live is not the best, but maybe there are some good pockets of districts. I know many of the elderly residents fight raising taxes for school improvements in many of the areas.
it is SO hard driving around here.
thankfully I don't do it that much (I'm a public transportation type girl).. but when I do it makes me CRAZY.. I curse like a sailor...
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| Posted 6/13/05 2:35 PM |
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nov04libride
big brother <3
Member since 5/05 14672 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by Sassyz75
it is SO hard driving around here.
thankfully I don't do it that much (I'm a public transportation type girl).. but when I do it makes me CRAZY.. I curse like a sailor...
Exactly! And I hate that it makes me stressed and pushy and bitter. 
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| Posted 6/13/05 2:37 PM |
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DebG
Pick a cause & stand up for it
Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
Name:
The cure IS worse!
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by Sassyz75
Posted by DebG
Posted by Sassyz75
Yes, there are good jobs there- but as far as what I know from visiting and spending time with my family there at least 3 times a year since 1993 and hearing the ups & downs of everyone's life- good, well-paying jobs are hard to come by ...
whether or not it is "irritating" - portraying Florida as the land of milk & honey I think is wrong.. it is probably JUST as hard to to find a good job there as anywhere else, if not harder...
I also know that a lot of school districs in florida (where my cousins went to school) are POORLY lacking in the arts- it's all sports, sports, sports.... no band, no drama, no art.....
Also, I don't know if it's how it is today, but when my family first moved there in 1993, everything was a la cart- their taxes were low but they had to pay for everything (garbage removal, the books for the kids in school, etc)...
Good paying jobs are not "hard to come by" if you are qualified. It's not "harder" to find a job here at all.
My property taxes include everything, there is no "a la cart" here. The schools in my district have film production, music, sports, drama ect its not just SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS.
I understand the points you are trying to make but you are overgeneralizing EVERYthing. East Coast is very different from West Coast (like the north shore is very different from the south shore) and Norther florida is very different than south florida (the sme way its very different in western nassau v. eastern suffolk).
Loads of poeple are hung up on the "florida when they were growing up" there is a sweeping generalization that Florida is still very podunk with bad schools.
I can speak for the area I live and say that there could be nothing further from the truth.
As I said, I only know of what was 1994-1998 in the Tampa area...
I guess that is the benefit of all northerners moving down there- the infrastructure (schools, etc) will get better.
thats the most pretentious thing I have read on LIF to date.
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| Posted 6/13/05 5:35 PM |
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
I grew up on LI and while I wanted to experience life in a different area, I also did not want to live on LI. While there are lots of pluses, I was tired of the traffic and congestion, among other things.
We now live in a small town in Putnam county. It's still considered the metropolitan area, as far as I know, but I love it here. It's quiet and while our house was still a lot, we could not have afforded the same house on LI. It's more laid back here, there are nice restaurants (some that not part of chains, and even a non-Starbucks coffeehouse!) and shops and tons of outdoorsy things. The schools are excellent. And we are only a little more than an hour from the city. For us, the trade-off was well worth it.
Message edited 6/13/2005 5:40:53 PM.
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| Posted 6/13/05 5:35 PM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
OMG...i don't know why this has turned into a state v state thing...
What i do know is that trying to be a home owner IS HARD here on LI. To get a house that you are ok with is HARD to the average person now. You are buying houses that you would never think you would consider. We are hoping that not so good area is going to turn over. And if we go for that semi-dream home YOU ARE LVING FOR THAT HOME.
LI...imo is FABULOUS. It doesn't have the high volume of NYC but yet close enough to hope on a train and be there in about 45 minutes.
But trying to become a home owner here on LI...it is difficult. Not only do you have over priced homes, you have high taxes and you have the competition of people from the NYC area that are moving out here because they can't afford to live in NYC.
A MAJORITY of people would like to own. And people are compromising anything and everything to own something decent. If moving to a different state is what makes them happy....WHO ARE ANY OF YOU TO JUDGE THAT? They may just not be sacraficing anything. There are many mom and pop shops all over the contry...along with the chains...who gives a crap...silly arguement.
If people feel that moving out to a different state is a better choice because
1. they CAN'T afford a home here
2. they want a bigger home for their family
3. THEY DON"T WANT TO SACRIFIC sending their kid to a "not so good school district" or live in that not so good area (PRAYING that it will turn over)..
THEN SO BE IT...
The little states (if you will) will become NYC/LI replicas...this movement has been happening ALL OVER the country.
People move to Utah, LV, Va, the carolina...
Florida is a HOT spot right now. If you can get a fabulous house you better take it NOW. Like someone said the real estate is exploding there and pretty soon buying a home in Florida will be just as expensive.
People shoudl be doing what is BEST for them, for their family and for what they want for their future...IMO that is NO sacrifice...that is LIFE EVERYWHERE, EVERYDAY
Message edited 6/13/2005 6:37:21 PM.
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| Posted 6/13/05 6:29 PM |
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MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.
Member since 5/05 26170 total posts
Name:
MrsERod™®
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by Redhead
If people feel that moving out to a different state is a better choice because
1. they CAN'T afford a home here
2. they want a bigger home for their family
3. THEY DON"T WANT TO SACRIFIC sending their kid to a "not so good school district" or live in that not so good area (PRAYING that it will turn over)..
THEN SO BE IT...
People shoudl be doing what is BEST for them, for their family and for what they want for their future...IMO that is NO sacrifice...that is LIFE EVERYWHERE, EVERYDAY
Very well said!!!!!!!!!! 
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| Posted 6/13/05 7:17 PM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by DebG
Posted by Sassyz75
Posted by DebG
Posted by Sassyz75
Yes, there are good jobs there- but as far as what I know from visiting and spending time with my family there at least 3 times a year since 1993 and hearing the ups & downs of everyone's life- good, well-paying jobs are hard to come by ...
whether or not it is "irritating" - portraying Florida as the land of milk & honey I think is wrong.. it is probably JUST as hard to to find a good job there as anywhere else, if not harder...
I also know that a lot of school districs in florida (where my cousins went to school) are POORLY lacking in the arts- it's all sports, sports, sports.... no band, no drama, no art.....
Also, I don't know if it's how it is today, but when my family first moved there in 1993, everything was a la cart- their taxes were low but they had to pay for everything (garbage removal, the books for the kids in school, etc)...
Good paying jobs are not "hard to come by" if you are qualified. It's not "harder" to find a job here at all.
My property taxes include everything, there is no "a la cart" here. The schools in my district have film production, music, sports, drama ect its not just SPORTS SPORTS SPORTS.
I understand the points you are trying to make but you are overgeneralizing EVERYthing. East Coast is very different from West Coast (like the north shore is very different from the south shore) and Norther florida is very different than south florida (the sme way its very different in western nassau v. eastern suffolk).
Loads of poeple are hung up on the "florida when they were growing up" there is a sweeping generalization that Florida is still very podunk with bad schools.
I can speak for the area I live and say that there could be nothing further from the truth.
As I said, I only know of what was 1994-1998 in the Tampa area...
I guess that is the benefit of all northerners moving down there- the infrastructure (schools, etc) will get better.
thats the most pretentious thing I have read on LIF to date.
[/QUOTE)
Why is that pretentious?
the more people move down to floridak, the more development there.
the more development and houses there are, the more people pay taxes, however little they are....
the more people shop, the more people pay sales tax, etc etc.. this increases the need for bigger schools, better and bigger roads, more shops, stores and jobs.
it's a fact that because the markets in "Northern" and urban areas are pricing out people, they are moving to Southern, more affordable areas.
that isn't pretentious..that is economics.
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| Posted 6/13/05 9:43 PM |
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DebG
Pick a cause & stand up for it
Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
Name:
The cure IS worse!
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
No thats not what you said.
What you sid is that the only reason schools are improving is because people from the north (the more/better educated people) are moving down here to save us.
Please
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| Posted 6/13/05 9:54 PM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
Name:
Kristin
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
And the chain restaurants that my hubby posted...Yes they are chains but not chains like applebees or Outback. I looked them up online and it said they were like 5 of them one in atlanta and the rest in northern florida. We are familiar with South Florida and never saw them there.
Certainly not the same as Outback or Applebees
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| Posted 6/13/05 10:00 PM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
Name:
Kristin
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by DebG
No thats not what you said.
What you sid is that the only reason schools are improving is because people from the north (the more/better educated people) are moving down here to save us.
Please
And I have to admit that they way it came across was that the reason why the schools are "better" was because all of the northeners moving down.
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| Posted 6/13/05 10:08 PM |
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HarleyGirlFLA
Come on in
Member since 5/05 9674 total posts
Name:
Mel
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
We moved to FL because we felt as much as we would save and buy a house in LI, I'd still have to pay for the LIRR, he would be commuting to JFK and that would add to expenses. We would never be able to make ends meet.
I love Florida, our home and cant beat the great weather all year long. We are also 30 min from Siesta Key which is the number 2 or 3 beach in the US, Captiva and Sanibel Island are about an hour from us which is an awesome beach, Venice/Englewood beach aka sharks teeth beach is about 20 min from us, and my job is a smooth drive down I-75 takes me about 30 min.
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| Posted 6/13/05 10:11 PM |
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HarleyGirlFLA
Come on in
Member since 5/05 9674 total posts
Name:
Mel
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by Redhead
OMG...i don't know why this has turned into a state v state thing...
What i do know is that trying to be a home owner IS HARD here on LI. To get a house that you are ok with is HARD to the average person now. You are buying houses that you would never think you would consider. We are hoping that not so good area is going to turn over. And if we go for that semi-dream home YOU ARE LVING FOR THAT HOME.
LI...imo is FABULOUS. It doesn't have the high volume of NYC but yet close enough to hope on a train and be there in about 45 minutes.
But trying to become a home owner here on LI...it is difficult. Not only do you have over priced homes, you have high taxes and you have the competition of people from the NYC area that are moving out here because they can't afford to live in NYC.
A MAJORITY of people would like to own. And people are compromising anything and everything to own something decent. If moving to a different state is what makes them happy....WHO ARE ANY OF YOU TO JUDGE THAT? They may just not be sacraficing anything. There are many mom and pop shops all over the contry...along with the chains...who gives a crap...silly arguement.
If people feel that moving out to a different state is a better choice because
1. they CAN'T afford a home here
2. they want a bigger home for their family
3. THEY DON"T WANT TO SACRIFIC sending their kid to a "not so good school district" or live in that not so good area (PRAYING that it will turn over)..
THEN SO BE IT...
The little states (if you will) will become NYC/LI replicas...this movement has been happening ALL OVER the country.
People move to Utah, LV, Va, the carolina...
Florida is a HOT spot right now. If you can get a fabulous house you better take it NOW. Like someone said the real estate is exploding there and pretty soon buying a home in Florida will be just as expensive.
People shoudl be doing what is BEST for them, for their family and for what they want for their future...IMO that is NO sacrifice...that is LIFE EVERYWHERE, EVERYDAY
Good points!
Yes FL is a definate hot spot. Their is a house in our area that is 4 years old and the asking price is over $300,000. Houses here sell in 2 weeks and if they dont sell in 2 weeks then the asking price is too high.
Our equity went up over $50,000 in our house and it's not even finished yet. We came to FL because we knew we couldnt afford a house in Long Island. We both were tired of the cold weather, I hated the commute to the city, the trains, the apartment, and the job market at the time for me was very difficulty and extremely depressing. I would literally go into a depression that I was having a hard time finding a job. For us coming to FL meant a better life for us and our family.
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| Posted 6/13/05 10:17 PM |
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AJsMommy122
Stop 2 smell the roses
Member since 5/05 2048 total posts
Name:
Maxine
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by HarleyGirlFLA
I love Florida, our home and cant beat the great weather all year long.
I don't really agree with that. The summers can be BRUTAL. and you have to worry everytime there is a hurricane.. look at last summer
DH's family owns many many summer houses in FL. and everytime there is some kind of storm they have to go running to make sure they still have a house there.
But stuff like that happens everywhere. Parys of NJ have been getting flooded what seems to be like all the time on the news.
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| Posted 6/14/05 4:55 AM |
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Redhead
You Live, You Learn
Member since 5/05 31871 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by AJsMommy122
Posted by HarleyGirlFLA
I love Florida, our home and cant beat the great weather all year long.
I don't really agree with that. The summers can be BRUTAL. and you have to worry everytime there is a hurricane.. look at last summer
DH's family owns many many summer houses in FL. and everytime there is some kind of storm they have to go running to make sure they still have a house there.
But stuff like that happens everywhere. Parys of NJ have been getting flooded what seems to be like all the time on the news.
And the summers aren't brutal here now? Look at these past couple of days...INSUFFERABLE. Ny has NO MORE SPRING...cold straight to hot and humid.
And ...imo every state has its thing...hurricanes, eathquakes, tornados, terrorist attacks, congestion, flooding...the list goes on.
Again it is a personal choice.
Me personally, i want to stay here...but that is because my family is here. Otherwise NY and NY weather ain't all that. I would be on a plane to Arizona...I do love it here but it DEFINATELY has its negatives....
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| Posted 6/14/05 5:41 AM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by DebG
No thats not what you said.
What you sid is that the only reason schools are improving is because people from the north (the more/better educated people) are moving down here to save us.
Please
Not that I want to go back and forth with you.
but that is not what I said.
I said I guess the benefit of Northerners moving dowb there is improved infrastructure....
It seems to me that you are putting your own words in my mouth...
Reread what I said- without interpreting it please... 
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| Posted 6/14/05 9:50 AM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
Name:
Kristin
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by AJsMommy122
Posted by HarleyGirlFLA
I love Florida, our home and cant beat the great weather all year long.
I don't really agree with that. The summers can be BRUTAL. and you have to worry everytime there is a hurricane.. look at last summer
DH's family owns many many summer houses in FL. and everytime there is some kind of storm they have to go running to make sure they still have a house there.
But stuff like that happens everywhere. Parys of NJ have been getting flooded what seems to be like all the time on the news.
Just because you think that doesnt mean everyone thinks that  Florida gets no snow in the winter. I like Florida weather so be it if you don't. I also like Vegas weather in the summer even though its 120 ill take it.
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| Posted 6/14/05 9:51 AM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
Name:
Kristin
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by Sassyz75
Posted by DebG
No thats not what you said.
What you sid is that the only reason schools are improving is because people from the north (the more/better educated people) are moving down here to save us.
Please
Not that I want to go back and forth with you.
but that is not what I said.
I said I guess the benefit of Northerners moving dowb there is improved infrastructure....
It seems to me that you are putting your own words in my mouth...
Reread what I said- without interpreting it please...
I re read that and it STILL looks like the norhteners are improving things? What are you trying to say???
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| Posted 6/14/05 9:52 AM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by june262004
Posted by Sassyz75
Posted by DebG
No thats not what you said.
What you sid is that the only reason schools are improving is because people from the north (the more/better educated people) are moving down here to save us.
Please
Not that I want to go back and forth with you.
but that is not what I said.
I said I guess the benefit of Northerners moving dowb there is improved infrastructure....
It seems to me that you are putting your own words in my mouth...
Reread what I said- without interpreting it please...
I re read that and it STILL looks like the norhteners are improving things? What are you trying to say???
Please read explanation above- as I said it's about economics.
more people moving.
more $
more taxes
more jobs
more children needing schools
more people on the road
maybe if you stop putting your personal opinion on it and see it what it is, a purely economical statement- it would make sense.
I never once said northern people are better than southern people... that is ridiculous... my DH IS FROM TITUSVILLE...
i think you all are getting a little too sensitive here...
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| Posted 6/14/05 9:59 AM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
Name:
Kristin
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Maybe it should have been worded "more people moving down"
I failed Economics 
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| Posted 6/14/05 10:00 AM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by june262004
Maybe it should have been worded "more people moving down"
I failed Economics
it's not my favorite subject either..
the reason why I said Northern- is b/c besides Hawaii, ,Florida is prettySouth- so everyone is "northern" of them...
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| Posted 6/14/05 10:05 AM |
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DebG
Pick a cause & stand up for it
Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
Name:
The cure IS worse!
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by june262004
Posted by Sassyz75
Posted by DebG
No that's not what you said.
What you said is that the only reason schools are improving is because people from the north (the more/better educated people) are moving down here to save us.
Please
Not that I want to go back and forth with you.
but that is not what I said.
I said I guess the benefit of Northerners moving down there is improved infrastructure....
It seems to me that you are putting your own words in my mouth...
Reread what I said- without interpreting it please...
I re read that and it STILL looks like the northeners are improving things? What are you trying to say???
Thank you!
Amazing, I seem to have the ability to take "my words" and put them in June's head.
"Northerners moving down there is improved infrastructure...."
What you are saying is that the south needs northerners to move here to improve infrastructure...as in it couldn't be done without them.
"Most" New Yorkers that move here are of the retirement age and have NO interest in actively 'improving infrastructure". They also don't have children going to school and are not interested in getting jobs (hell they just stoppped working) .
Whatever, we are not going to see eye to eye so I don't see a point of continuing this.
I concede, NY'ers are superior. Thank you everyone from NY who has moved to Florida.
You make my day to day life better and I couldn't have done it without you.
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| Posted 6/14/05 10:07 AM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by DebG
Posted by june262004
Posted by Sassyz75
Posted by DebG
No that's not what you said.
What you said is that the only reason schools are improving is because people from the north (the more/better educated people) are moving down here to save us.
Please
Not that I want to go back and forth with you.
but that is not what I said.
I said I guess the benefit of Northerners moving down there is improved infrastructure....
It seems to me that you are putting your own words in my mouth...
Reread what I said- without interpreting it please...
I re read that and it STILL looks like the northeners are improving things? What are you trying to say???
Thank you!
Amazing, I seem to have the ability to take "my words" and put them in June's head.
"Northerners moving down there is improved infrastructure...."
What you are saying is that the south needs northerners to move here to improve infrastructure...as in it couldn't be done without them.
"Most" New Yorkers that move here are of the retirement age and have NO interest in actively 'improving infrastructure". They also don't have children going to school and are not interested in getting jobs (hell they just stoppped working) .
Whatever, we are not going to see eye to eye so I don't see a point of continuing this.
I concede, NY'ers are superior. Thank you everyone from NY who has moved to Florida.
You make my day to day life better and I couldn't have done it without you.
I said NORTHENER
I Did not say NEW YORKER
is Florida mostly Southern than almost every other state in the Union?
Wouldn't that make even places like Georgia North?
And what I was saying is the more people that moved South- the more improvements and changes that would be needed.. because of the amount of people... isn't that true with anywhere? Isn't that why there is so much home development in Florida??? Because more-and-more people are moving there?
I never mentioned anything about Northerners being better.. quite frankly- that sounds like your own insecurity...
Message edited 6/14/2005 10:11:06 AM.
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| Posted 6/14/05 10:08 AM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
Name:
Kristin
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
We still call carolinas virgina georgia alabama southerners. Nj is southern to us but we don't call them southeners
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| Posted 6/14/05 10:10 AM |
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DebG
Pick a cause & stand up for it
Member since 5/05 18602 total posts
Name:
The cure IS worse!
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Re: Need Help....Alot of ?s about LI
Posted by Sassyz75
Posted by DebG
Posted by june262004
Posted by Sassyz75
Posted by DebG
No that's not what you said.
What you said is that the only reason schools are improving is because people from the north (the more/better educated people) are moving down here to save us.
Please
Not that I want to go back and forth with you.
but that is not what I said.
I said I guess the benefit of Northerners moving down there is improved infrastructure....
It seems to me that you are putting your own words in my mouth...
Reread what I said- without interpreting it please...
I re read that and it STILL looks like the northeners are improving things? What are you trying to say???
Thank you!
Amazing, I seem to have the ability to take "my words" and put them in June's head.
"Northerners moving down there is improved infrastructure...."
What you are saying is that the south needs northerners to move here to improve infrastructure...as in it couldn't be done without them.
"Most" New Yorkers that move here are of the retirement age and have NO interest in actively 'improving infrastructure". They also don't have children going to school and are not interested in getting jobs (hell they just stoppped working) .
Whatever, we are not going to see eye to eye so I don't see a point of continuing this.
I concede, NY'ers are superior. Thank you everyone from NY who has moved to Florida.
You make my day to day life better and I couldn't have done it without you.
I said NORTHENER
I Did not say NEW YORKER
is Florida mostly Southern than almost every other state in the Union?
Wouldn't that make even places like Georgia North?
And what I was saying is the more people that moved South- the more improvements and changes that would be needed.. because of the amount of people... isn't that true with anywhere? Isn't that why there is so much home development in Florida??? Because more-and-more people are moving there?
I never mentioned anything about Northerners being better.. quite frankly- that sounds like your own insecurity...
I am from NY so I don't really see how that could be my own insecurity.
The last two posts you have made, you have taken two personal shots at me.
Grow up and learn how to have a conversation, without throwing insults out to make your point.
I'm done with you now and this thread.
Good Day.
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| Posted 6/14/05 10:14 AM |
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