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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
If you're one of the "Wherever I stand, I stand with ISrael" folks, how do you believe the solution can/should be realistically resolved?
Do you support a 2 state solution that gives up some of Israel's occupied land provided that Israel has borders considered defendable?
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Posted 5/20/11 12:45 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by JenniferEver
If you're one of the "Wherever I stand, I stand with ISrael" folks, how do you believe the solution can/should be realistically resolved?
Do you support a 2 state solution that gives up some of Israel's occupied land provided that Israel has borders considered defendable?
With Hamas- I don't beleive it can. And honestly, I don't believe that it will be resolved with this generation. I think that groups like Seeds of Peace are amazing that education young children on both sides to forget the hatred and find a solution. There is too much hatred right now. I believe once you take out the hatred and bias, a solution can be reached.
I do believe in a two state solution some day down the line- once Hamas is out of power. I used to believe in land for peace, until Israel gave up land and received no peace. I would revisit that idea, only after a year of peace.
ETA: I can't believe that I am saying this- but Whitney Houston's song lyrics are actually appropriate here:
"I believe the children are our future.
Teach them well and let them lead the way."
Message edited 5/20/2011 12:53:52 PM.
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| Posted 5/20/11 12:51 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
I agree with Shelly, as long as the PLO endorses the Hamas, which is deemed by the US as a "terrorist organization committed to Israel's destruction," I don't see how the two States can co-exist. Israel has given back some of its land in the past, and the end result has been continued terrorism, and increased vulnerability, so I don't see anyone can think that doing the same thing will produce a different result this time.
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| Posted 5/20/11 1:03 PM |
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casey31
Mommy of 3!
Member since 5/05 2967 total posts
Name:
Mommy to two boys and a girl
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by smdl
Without going into a religious debate, the "creation" of Israel and how it came to be independent is in essence the entire issue for the rest of the muslin population. People were displaced. Resentment, hate, etc...
The ongoing involvement of the US in the issue has been a major issue for the rest of the Middle East adding to the fuel.
But Obama's decision (which is NOT HIS to make!!!) is ludicrous!
I agree with everything you said. I really think we need to stay out of this.
I also think that Israel REALLY needs to stop the land grabs in the west bank.
Forget the "land grabs"- how about the Palestinians stop blowing up children on school buses!
There is NO moral equivalency to what Israel should do for peace vs. what the Palestinians should do.
If the Palestinians could say that Israel has the right to exist and they will stop killing civialians DELIBERATELY via suicide bombings then every single Israeli would give back the settlements- I guarantee that from what I know from friends and family there. Every single child you bear goes into the army at 17. Children are taught in kindergarten not to touch packages or purses in the street. The whole thing is a joke- There is a strong hatred towards Israel among the Arab countries- there will be no peace no matter what Israel gives back.
And, let's remember that 70 years ago SIX MILLION Jews were killed in gas chambers- my family included. They wanted one small piece of land and they have extended the hand of peace countless times, over and over again they were attacked.
Message edited 5/20/2011 1:35:59 PM.
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| Posted 5/20/11 1:06 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
I love Seeds of Peace. I really hope that things will change. I agree it will take generations. However it's possible that the popular uprisings througout the Middle East, if they go the right way can pave the way for democracy and terrorist groups will lose support. Eventually there will be increased pressure to drop ties with Hamas. One can hope and pray.
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| Posted 5/20/11 1:07 PM |
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BigB
C & J are 10!
Member since 6/05 5914 total posts
Name:
Stacey
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
i think we (the us govt.) should stay the hell out of it.
I agree
And not a fan of saying land belongs to someone because the bible says so.
We can't stay out of it because the United States supported the establishment of a Jewish state!
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| Posted 5/20/11 2:39 PM |
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annoyedTTCer
LIF Adult
Member since 4/09 3272 total posts
Name:
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by BigB
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
i think we (the us govt.) should stay the hell out of it.
I agree
And not a fan of saying land belongs to someone because the bible says so.
We can't stay out of it because the United States supported the establishment of a Jewish state!
Supported, past tense.
That was then, this is now. We have our own issues to deal with.
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| Posted 5/20/11 2:41 PM |
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BigB
C & J are 10!
Member since 6/05 5914 total posts
Name:
Stacey
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by Little-J-Mommy
Posted by Bxgell2
I was an Obama supporter, and I've also seen some impact he has made on my very own Agency, some good, and some bad. But, at the end of the day, the strongest identity that I have is Judaism. I understand that many, many non-Jews will never understand exactly why my self identity is so closely interlocked with Judaism, considering I'm not at all religious. It is just a tacit understanding amongst most Jews that simply cannot be described. And Israel, its people, and its safety is so intertwined with that identity as a Jewish woman, that my strongest political alignment is to its well-being, above and beyond any liberal political viewpoints I may have that align closely with Obama's administration. I think this is just such a huge slap to the face after the promises he made during his campaign. Those were the very promises that swayed me to forgoe my hesitations and vote for him. NEVER AGAIN.
This is a huge mistake, and the consequences could be unspeakable. It saddens me beyond belief 
Slightly off topic and not nearly as popular, Armenians understand what's happening here and frankly, I'm not surprised by Obama becoming a disappointment. I too voted for him and one of the reasons was because of his position to support the Armenians in getting Turkey to recognize the genocide. (You know the one that gave Hitler his famous "Who remembers the Armenians" quote when scheming his horrible plan for the Jews).
Obama adamantly promised to demand recognition for the Armenians much in the same way the Jews found retribution in the admitting and apologizing for the wiping out of millions. He reneged on his promise to us, the Armenians. Clearly Turkey's border and cooperation was just too important for him to jeopardize by keeping his word. The word that he used to sway votes during his campaign.
To make matters worse...there's so few of us left, that it doesn't make the headlines the way today's news does. I doubt any of you even knew that there was a rally in NYC just 2 weeks ago representing 96 years of a struggle for recognition of the first genocide in the 20th century where 1.5 million Armenians were wiped off the map.
I was disappointed in him then and I'm disappointed in him now.
This is just a long-winded way for me to say, I understand how you feel. 
Although I do not belong to either of these groups (Armenian and Jewish) I do come from a group of people who also have had to fight for the unification of their country and continue that fight today. I was never and will never will be a supporter of Obama. People want change but don't want to change anything to get there! LOL....I hope that these recent events cause many more voters in America to think twice before they cast their vote in 2 years!
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| Posted 5/20/11 2:44 PM |
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BigB
C & J are 10!
Member since 6/05 5914 total posts
Name:
Stacey
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by BigB
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
i think we (the us govt.) should stay the hell out of it.
I agree
And not a fan of saying land belongs to someone because the bible says so.
We can't stay out of it because the United States supported the establishment of a Jewish state!
Supported, past tense.
That was then, this is now. We have our own issues to deal with.
True, but Isreal is an ally and there is too much invested in Israel to walk away. The political upheavel it would cause in major cities in this country is mind boggling. You might not understand in Iowa, but if you are in NYC, LA, Boston, Chicago, Palm Beach, it will matter.
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| Posted 5/20/11 2:47 PM |
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Goldi0218
My miracles!
Member since 12/05 23902 total posts
Name:
Leslie
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by BigB
Posted by Little-J-Mommy
Posted by Bxgell2
I was an Obama supporter, and I've also seen some impact he has made on my very own Agency, some good, and some bad. But, at the end of the day, the strongest identity that I have is Judaism. I understand that many, many non-Jews will never understand exactly why my self identity is so closely interlocked with Judaism, considering I'm not at all religious. It is just a tacit understanding amongst most Jews that simply cannot be described. And Israel, its people, and its safety is so intertwined with that identity as a Jewish woman, that my strongest political alignment is to its well-being, above and beyond any liberal political viewpoints I may have that align closely with Obama's administration. I think this is just such a huge slap to the face after the promises he made during his campaign. Those were the very promises that swayed me to forgoe my hesitations and vote for him. NEVER AGAIN.
This is a huge mistake, and the consequences could be unspeakable. It saddens me beyond belief
Slightly off topic and not nearly as popular, Armenians understand what's happening here and frankly, I'm not surprised by Obama becoming a disappointment. I too voted for him and one of the reasons was because of his position to support the Armenians in getting Turkey to recognize the genocide. (You know the one that gave Hitler his famous "Who remembers the Armenians" quote when scheming his horrible plan for the Jews).
Obama adamantly promised to demand recognition for the Armenians much in the same way the Jews found retribution in the admitting and apologizing for the wiping out of millions. He reneged on his promise to us, the Armenians. Clearly Turkey's border and cooperation was just too important for him to jeopardize by keeping his word. The word that he used to sway votes during his campaign.
To make matters worse...there's so few of us left, that it doesn't make the headlines the way today's news does. I doubt any of you even knew that there was a rally in NYC just 2 weeks ago representing 96 years of a struggle for recognition of the first genocide in the 20th century where 1.5 million Armenians were wiped off the map.
I was disappointed in him then and I'm disappointed in him now.
This is just a long-winded way for me to say, I understand how you feel.
Although I do not belong to either of these groups (Armenian and Jewish) I do come from a group of people who also have had to fight for the unification of their country and continue that fight today. I was never and will never will be a supporter of Obama. People want change but don't want to change anything to get there! LOL....I hope that these recent events cause many more voters in America to think twice before they cast their vote in 2 years!
Sadly I think OTHER recent events will call for his re-election. Some people needed the capture of a demon to seal the deal. I needed more. I would have LOVED to have voted for him but my conscience won't let me now. I pray we have a viable alternative the choice of which is made VERY VERY VERY carefully.
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| Posted 5/20/11 2:51 PM |
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EricaAlt
LIF Adult
Member since 7/08 22665 total posts
Name:
Erica
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by mrswask
Posted by pickles16
Posted by Goldi0218
Posted by Bxgell2
I was an Obama supporter, and I've also seen some impact he has made on my very own Agency, some good, and some bad. But, at the end of the day, the strongest identity that I have is Judaism. I understand that many, many non-Jews will never understand exactly why my self identity is so closely interlocked with Judaism, considering I'm not at all religious. It is just a tacit understanding amongst most Jews that simply cannot be described. And Israel, its people, and its safety is so intertwined with that identity as a Jewish woman, that my strongest political alignment is to its well-being, above and beyond any liberal political viewpoints I may have that align closely with Obama's administration. I think this is just such a huge slap to the face after the promises he made during his campaign. Those were the very promises that swayed me to forgoe my hesitations and vote for him. NEVER AGAIN.
This is a huge mistake, and the consequences could be unspeakable. It saddens me beyond belief
Id say "THIS" but it annoys the hell out of people. So instead I will 
Again I mention the diminishing Jewish population and how we fight to hold on to whatever we have. Israel and Judaism (whether Reform with Liberal politics of Orthodox with Conservative politics or Conservative with Moderate politics) is very much a passion of their followers. 13-14 million world wide. Half of those in this country. Less than 1 percent of the world's total population based on religion. Damn straight I will be vocal about a homeland and protecting it. I'm praying very hard - VERY hard.
THIS I already annoy ppl so I don't care
Double this!!! (or is it triple at this point?)
As usual, Beth, you stated (my exact) thoughts much more eloquently than I ever could.
Another *THIS*
Also to add... I am Jewish and did vote for Obama. He lost my vote too
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| Posted 5/20/11 3:00 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by casey31
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by smdl
Without going into a religious debate, the "creation" of Israel and how it came to be independent is in essence the entire issue for the rest of the muslin population. People were displaced. Resentment, hate, etc...
The ongoing involvement of the US in the issue has been a major issue for the rest of the Middle East adding to the fuel.
But Obama's decision (which is NOT HIS to make!!!) is ludicrous!
I agree with everything you said. I really think we need to stay out of this.
I also think that Israel REALLY needs to stop the land grabs in the west bank.
Forget the "land grabs"- how about the Palestinians stop blowing up children on school buses!
There is NO moral equivalency to what Israel should do for peace vs. what the Palestinians should do.
If the Palestinians could say that Israel has the right to exist and they will stop killing civialians DELIBERATELY via suicide bombings then every single Israeli would give back the settlements- I guarantee that from what I know from friends and family there. Every single child you bear goes into the army at 17. Children are taught in kindergarten not to touch packages or purses in the street. The whole thing is a joke- There is a strong hatred towards Israel among the Arab countries- there will be no peace no matter what Israel gives back.
And, let's remember that 70 years ago SIX MILLION Jews were killed in gas chambers- my family included. They wanted one small piece of land and they have extended the hand of peace countless times, over and over again they were attacked.
While nobody can ever support Hamas, the killing has going on on both sides. Thinking that Israel has not intentionally killed Palestinian civilians is very naive.
Again, the atrocities of WWII against the jewish population has NOTHING to do with the issue with Israel and Palestine. People are confusing stories here.
Israel was created but at the cost of people being displaced. They still did not swallow the pill. Hence why this is STILL an issue years later. The US has backed up Israel for years, ignoring the issues the Palestinians have cried for for years. Hamas came about very strongly because they felt they were wrong. That's in a "nut shell". Again, nobody can support violence and Hamas.
Yet, Israel has killed too, has grabbed land (creating even more violence from Palestine's side!!!!). I guess they think violence is the answer to Israel doing whatever it wants to the land grabbing for years. I am not in their shoes but nobody has really supported Palestine either and helped them. AGAIN, NOBODY is supporting Hamas.
The problem was loud and clear when I was a kid. It is still a problem MANY years later. Probably will STILL be a problem later on.
The core issues are not resolved. Not sure they would ever be in my lifetime.
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| Posted 5/20/11 3:15 PM |
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casey31
Mommy of 3!
Member since 5/05 2967 total posts
Name:
Mommy to two boys and a girl
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by smdl
Posted by casey31
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by smdl
Without going into a religious debate, the "creation" of Israel and how it came to be independent is in essence the entire issue for the rest of the muslin population. People were displaced. Resentment, hate, etc...
The ongoing involvement of the US in the issue has been a major issue for the rest of the Middle East adding to the fuel.
But Obama's decision (which is NOT HIS to make!!!) is ludicrous!
I agree with everything you said. I really think we need to stay out of this.
I also think that Israel REALLY needs to stop the land grabs in the west bank.
Forget the "land grabs"- how about the Palestinians stop blowing up children on school buses!
There is NO moral equivalency to what Israel should do for peace vs. what the Palestinians should do.
If the Palestinians could say that Israel has the right to exist and they will stop killing civialians DELIBERATELY via suicide bombings then every single Israeli would give back the settlements- I guarantee that from what I know from friends and family there. Every single child you bear goes into the army at 17. Children are taught in kindergarten not to touch packages or purses in the street. The whole thing is a joke- There is a strong hatred towards Israel among the Arab countries- there will be no peace no matter what Israel gives back.
And, let's remember that 70 years ago SIX MILLION Jews were killed in gas chambers- my family included. They wanted one small piece of land and they have extended the hand of peace countless times, over and over again they were attacked.
While nobody can ever support Hamas, the killing has going on on both sides. Thinking that Israel has not intentionally killed Palestinian civilians is very naive.
Again, the atrocities of WWII against the jewish population has NOTHING to do with the issue with Israel and Palestine. People are confusing stories here.
Israel was created but at the cost of people being displaced. They still did not swallow the pill. Hence why this is STILL an issue years later. The US has backed up Israel for years, ignoring the issues the Palestinians have cried for for years. Hamas came about very strongly because they felt they were wrong. That's in a "nut shell". Again, nobody can support violence and Hamas.
Yet, Israel has killed too, has grabbed land (creating even more violence from Palestine's side!!!!). I guess they think violence is the answer to Israel doing whatever it wants to the land grabbing for years. I am not in their shoes but nobody has really supported Palestine either and helped them. AGAIN, NOBODY is supporting Hamas.
The problem was loud and clear when I was a kid. It is still a problem MANY years later. Probably will STILL be a problem later on.
The core issues are not resolved. Not sure they would ever be in my lifetime.
You may think I am naive then but I do NOT believe that Israel has ever intentionally killed civilians. I have many friends and family who have served in their army and I firmly believe that the Israeli government has done nothing but try to prevent innocent civilian deaths. Also, Israel has TRIED to give land back for peace and it has not worked before.
Message edited 5/20/2011 3:21:53 PM.
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| Posted 5/20/11 3:20 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by casey31
You may think I am naive then but I do NOT believe that Israel has ever intentionally killed civilians. I have many friends and family who have served in their army and I firmly believe that the Israeli government has done nothing but try to prevent innocent civilian deaths.
I don't mean it as in insult but THEY DID. If you had lived overseas you would have a different view of the situation and different news.
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| Posted 5/20/11 3:22 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by smdl
While nobody can ever support Hamas, the killing has going on on both sides. Thinking that Israel has not intentionally killed Palestinian civilians is very naive.
Again, the atrocities of WWII against the jewish population has NOTHING to do with the issue with Israel and Palestine. People are confusing stories here.
Israel was created but at the cost of people being displaced. They still did not swallow the pill. Hence why this is STILL an issue years later. The US has backed up Israel for years, ignoring the issues the Palestinians have cried for for years. Hamas came about very strongly because they felt they were wrong. That's in a "nut shell". Again, nobody can support violence and Hamas.
Yet, Israel has killed too, has grabbed land (creating even more violence from Palestine's side!!!!). I guess they think violence is the answer to Israel doing whatever it wants to the land grabbing for years. I am not in their shoes but nobody has really supported Palestine either and helped them. AGAIN, NOBODY is supporting Hamas.
The problem was loud and clear when I was a kid. It is still a problem MANY years later. Probably will STILL be a problem later on.
The core issues are not resolved. Not sure they would ever be in my lifetime.
I love this. this is perfect. thank you.
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| Posted 5/20/11 3:22 PM |
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casey31
Mommy of 3!
Member since 5/05 2967 total posts
Name:
Mommy to two boys and a girl
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by smdl
Posted by casey31
You may think I am naive then but I do NOT believe that Israel has ever intentionally killed civilians. I have many friends and family who have served in their army and I firmly believe that the Israeli government has done nothing but try to prevent innocent civilian deaths.
I don't mean it as in insult but THEY DID. If you had lived overseas you would have a different view of the situation and different news.
I will respectfully disagree with you- I feel that much of the media now throughout Europe is very biased against Israel.
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| Posted 5/20/11 3:26 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by smdl
Posted by casey31
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by smdl
Without going into a religious debate, the "creation" of Israel and how it came to be independent is in essence the entire issue for the rest of the muslin population. People were displaced. Resentment, hate, etc...
The ongoing involvement of the US in the issue has been a major issue for the rest of the Middle East adding to the fuel.
But Obama's decision (which is NOT HIS to make!!!) is ludicrous!
I agree with everything you said. I really think we need to stay out of this.
I also think that Israel REALLY needs to stop the land grabs in the west bank.
Forget the "land grabs"- how about the Palestinians stop blowing up children on school buses!
There is NO moral equivalency to what Israel should do for peace vs. what the Palestinians should do.
If the Palestinians could say that Israel has the right to exist and they will stop killing civialians DELIBERATELY via suicide bombings then every single Israeli would give back the settlements- I guarantee that from what I know from friends and family there. Every single child you bear goes into the army at 17. Children are taught in kindergarten not to touch packages or purses in the street. The whole thing is a joke- There is a strong hatred towards Israel among the Arab countries- there will be no peace no matter what Israel gives back.
And, let's remember that 70 years ago SIX MILLION Jews were killed in gas chambers- my family included. They wanted one small piece of land and they have extended the hand of peace countless times, over and over again they were attacked.
While nobody can ever support Hamas, the killing has going on on both sides. Thinking that Israel has not intentionally killed Palestinian civilians is very naive.
Again, the atrocities of WWII against the jewish population has NOTHING to do with the issue with Israel and Palestine. People are confusing stories here.
Israel was created but at the cost of people being displaced. They still did not swallow the pill. Hence why this is STILL an issue years later. The US has backed up Israel for years, ignoring the issues the Palestinians have cried for for years. Hamas came about very strongly because they felt they were wrong. That's in a "nut shell". Again, nobody can support violence and Hamas.
Yet, Israel has killed too, has grabbed land (creating even more violence from Palestine's side!!!!). I guess they think violence is the answer to Israel doing whatever it wants to the land grabbing for years. I am not in their shoes but nobody has really supported Palestine either and helped them. AGAIN, NOBODY is supporting Hamas.
The problem was loud and clear when I was a kid. It is still a problem MANY years later. Probably will STILL be a problem later on.
The core issues are not resolved. Not sure they would ever be in my lifetime.
Agreed. I don't think it's as black and white as people are making it. There are not heroes and villians in this story.
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| Posted 5/20/11 3:28 PM |
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Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by smdl
Yet, Israel has killed too, has grabbed land (creating even more violence from Palestine's side!!!!). I guess they think violence is the answer to Israel doing whatever it wants to the land grabbing for years. I am not in their shoes but nobody has really supported Palestine either and helped them. AGAIN, NOBODY is supporting Hamas.
Please explain to me what land Israel has grabbed. Israel won land in a war- where Israel was attacked and fought back and won. I don't consider that a "land grab." And what violence is Israel doing? I would be very curious to see your sources. What I see is Israel using violence to defend itself after an attack- and not so much the other way around. Please do show me the sources of your statements. Thanks.
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| Posted 5/20/11 3:29 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by smdl
Posted by casey31
You may think I am naive then but I do NOT believe that Israel has ever intentionally killed civilians. I have many friends and family who have served in their army and I firmly believe that the Israeli government has done nothing but try to prevent innocent civilian deaths.
I don't mean it as in insult but THEY DID. If you had lived overseas you would have a different view of the situation and different news.
Yes, I am sure it has happened, just as we've discovered americans who have intentionally killed civilians in Iraq, or Vietnam, or any country in which we've engaged in conflict. And yes, that is wrong, there is absolutely NO disputing that. But, I would add, that is WHOLLY different from a terrorist organization whose entire ideology is based upon the annihilation of an entire State, and an entire group of people. The terrorism not only extends in Israel, but all over the world. You're comparing apples to oranges here...
And let's set the record straight here for a moment. Do some research and you'll discover that Jews didn't all of a sudden flock to Israel and take over the entire country in 1948. The jewish people have a long, LONG standing history in Israel. Over thousands of years Jews have maintained their roots in Israel, have been expelled, come back, expelled, killed, come back, etc. A little known factoid: Jews constituted the largest population group in Jerusalem, and by 1890 an absolute majority in the city.
These sweeping generalizations of Jews flocking to Israel by the thousands and pushing out the Palenstinians are grossly exaggerated.
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| Posted 5/20/11 3:32 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by casey31
Posted by smdl
Posted by casey31
You may think I am naive then but I do NOT believe that Israel has ever intentionally killed civilians. I have many friends and family who have served in their army and I firmly believe that the Israeli government has done nothing but try to prevent innocent civilian deaths.
I don't mean it as in insult but THEY DID. If you had lived overseas you would have a different view of the situation and different news.
I will respectfully disagree with you- I feel that much of the media now throughout Europe is very biased against Israel.
It's just as biased as here. The US is a well known supporter of Israel. I am not sure how unbiased this is.
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| Posted 5/20/11 3:33 PM |
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Bxgell2
Perfection
Member since 5/05 16438 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by smdl
Posted by casey31
Posted by smdl
Posted by casey31
You may think I am naive then but I do NOT believe that Israel has ever intentionally killed civilians. I have many friends and family who have served in their army and I firmly believe that the Israeli government has done nothing but try to prevent innocent civilian deaths.
I don't mean it as in insult but THEY DID. If you had lived overseas you would have a different view of the situation and different news.
I will respectfully disagree with you- I feel that much of the media now throughout Europe is very biased against Israel.
It's just as biased as here. The US is a well known supporter of Israel. I am not sure how unbiased this is.
There is a very, VERY large undercurrent of anti-semitism right here in the US. I have the complaints in my office to prove it. In fact, my perception of the reporting here in the US is that it is very biased against Israel.
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| Posted 5/20/11 3:36 PM |
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LoveBeingMrsT
Love my Boys!
Member since 12/05 4648 total posts
Name:
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by Summergrl73
The only reason that Israel has more land after 1967 is because the Arab countries surrounding it kept attacking them- Israel didnt start those wars and if the ones who started it lost..then oh well- you lose the war- you lose the land. Also, a lot of those countries will not be satisfied unless Israel ceases to exist so changing the borders will not make them stop fighting Israel.
And we really cant stay out of it- we have had a committment to help Israel since it was created
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| Posted 5/20/11 3:40 PM |
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Goldi0218
My miracles!
Member since 12/05 23902 total posts
Name:
Leslie
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Bibi schooled him but good!
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| Posted 5/20/11 3:41 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by Bxgell2
Posted by smdl
Posted by casey31
You may think I am naive then but I do NOT believe that Israel has ever intentionally killed civilians. I have many friends and family who have served in their army and I firmly believe that the Israeli government has done nothing but try to prevent innocent civilian deaths.
I don't mean it as in insult but THEY DID. If you had lived overseas you would have a different view of the situation and different news.
Yes, I am sure it has happened, just as we've discovered americans who have intentionally killed civilians in Iraq, or Vietnam, or any country in which we've engaged in conflict. And yes, that is wrong, there is absolutely NO disputing that. But, I would add, that is WHOLLY different from a terrorist organization whose entire ideology is based upon the annihilation of an entire State, and an entire group of people. The terrorism not only extends in Israel, but all over the world. You're comparing apples to oranges here...
And let's set the record straight here for a moment. Do some research and you'll discover that Jews didn't all of a sudden flock to Israel and take over the entire country in 1948. The jewish people have a long, LONG standing history in Israel. Over thousands of years Jews have maintained their roots in Israel, have been expelled, come back, expelled, killed, come back, etc. A little known factoid: Jews constituted the largest population group in Jerusalem, and by 1890 an absolute majority in the city.
These sweeping generalizations of Jews flocking to Israel by the thousands and pushing out the Palenstinians are grossly exaggerated.
I clearly said that nobody supported Hamas. Myself included. I never implied that millions of Jews invaded a Country. That's not what I said at all.
I actually compare it to a very similar situation in former Yougoslasvia with different ethnic groups.
But when Israel became "independent" it did not go smoothly for all. It created resentment, hate, people displaced.
Some posters are asking me to give my sources on casualties. Seriously! I am over 40 yo. The conflict started before my time. How many "incidents" has it been over my lifetime and before me? We can't even count in numbers but in YEARS. Do people go everyday around looking to kill Palestinians? No. I never said that either.
I think the complexity of the situation is intertwined in the root of CENTURIES of 2 different religious group leaving side by side. Refusing to give an inch to call the conflict over on BOTH sides.
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| Posted 5/20/11 3:42 PM |
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LoveBeingMrsT
Love my Boys!
Member since 12/05 4648 total posts
Name:
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Re: Obama calls for Israel's return to pre-1967 borders
Posted by Goldi0218
Posted by Bxgell2
I was an Obama supporter, and I've also seen some impact he has made on my very own Agency, some good, and some bad. But, at the end of the day, the strongest identity that I have is Judaism. I understand that many, many non-Jews will never understand exactly why my self identity is so closely interlocked with Judaism, considering I'm not at all religious. It is just a tacit understanding amongst most Jews that simply cannot be described. And Israel, its people, and its safety is so intertwined with that identity as a Jewish woman, that my strongest political alignment is to its well-being, above and beyond any liberal political viewpoints I may have that align closely with Obama's administration. I think this is just such a huge slap to the face after the promises he made during his campaign. Those were the very promises that swayed me to forgoe my hesitations and vote for him. NEVER AGAIN.
This is a huge mistake, and the consequences could be unspeakable. It saddens me beyond belief
Id say "THIS" but it annoys the hell out of people. So instead I will
Again I mention the diminishing Jewish population and how we fight to hold on to whatever we have. Israel and Judaism (whether Reform with Liberal politics of Orthodox with Conservative politics or Conservative with Moderate politics) is very much a passion of their followers. 13-14 million world wide. Half of those in this country. Less than 1 percent of the world's total population based on religion. Damn straight I will be vocal about a homeland and protecting it. I'm praying very hard - VERY hard.
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| Posted 5/20/11 3:45 PM |
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