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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name: Danielle
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Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor.
An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday from diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said.
She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney. The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said the family believes in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but she said they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors.
She insisted her youngest child, a wiry girl known to wear her straight brown hair in a ponytail, was in good health until recently. "We just noticed a tiredness within the past two weeks," she said Wednesday. "And then just the day before and that day (she died), it suddenly just went to a more serious situation. We stayed fast in prayer then. We believed that she would recover. We saw signs that to us, it looked like she was recovering."
Her daughter — who hadn't seen a doctor since she got some shots as a 3-year-old, according to Vergin — had no fever and there was warmth in her body, she said. The girl's father, Dale Neumann, a former police officer, said he started CPR "as soon as the breath of life left" his daughter's body.
Family members elsewhere called authorities to seek help for the girl. "My sister-in-law, she's very religious, she believes in faith instead of doctors ...," the girl's aunt told a sheriff's dispatcher Sunday afternoon in a call from California. "And she called my mother-in-law today ... and she explained to us that she believes her daughter's in a coma now and she's relying on faith."
The dispatcher got more information from the caller and asked if an ambulance should be sent. "Please," the woman replied. "I mean, she's refusing. She's going to fight it. ... We've been trying to get her to take her to the hospital for a week, a few days now."
The aunt called back with more information on the family's location, emergency logs show. Police and paramedics arrived within minutes and immediately called for an ambulance that took her to a hospital. But less than an hour after authorities reached the home, Madeline — a bright student who left public school for home schooling this semester — was declared dead.
She is survived by her parents and three older siblings.
"We are remaining strong for our children," Leilani Neumann said. "Only our faith in God is giving us strength at this time."
The Neumanns said they moved from California to a modern, middle-class home in woodsy Weston, just outside Wassau in central Wisconsin, about two years ago to open a coffee shop and be closer to other relatives. A basketball hoop is set up in the driveway.
Leilani Neumann said she and her husband are not worried about the investigation because "our lives are in God's hands. We know we did not do anything criminal. We know we did the best for our daughter we knew how to do."
Message edited 3/27/2008 3:34:26 PM.
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Posted 3/27/08 3:33 PM |
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MrsFlatbread
Skinny jeans are in my future
Member since 6/06 10258 total posts
Name: Baby Momma
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Faith and Poiltics should remain separate. This is a very controversial issue for most, but there are many religions that oppose certain medical practices. Who are we to jugde based on the outcome?
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Posted 3/27/08 3:36 PM |
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sfp0701
Liam's Mommy!
Member since 1/07 9764 total posts
Name: Tricia
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
***???????? Between the Wantagh teacher and this.. I am furious today!!!!!! That is crazy!! I hope they take away the other kids and shame on the relatives for not calling for help sooner!
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Posted 3/27/08 3:38 PM |
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Ambersmom
Straight up nasty
Member since 5/05 7740 total posts
Name: Sharon
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Hopefully God will offer them up some bail money when they find their arses in jail
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Posted 3/27/08 3:40 PM |
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MrsS2005
Mom of 3
Member since 11/05 13118 total posts
Name: B
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Posted by MrsFlatbread
Faith and Poiltics should remain separate. This is a very controversial issue for most, but there are many religions that oppose certain medical practices. Who are we to jugde based on the outcome?
I think we absolutely have a right to judge when there are children involved. If an adult chooses prayer over medical intervention, that's his or her choice. I think children need to be protected when their health or lives are in danger.
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Posted 3/27/08 3:40 PM |
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sfp0701
Liam's Mommy!
Member since 1/07 9764 total posts
Name: Tricia
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Posted by MrsFlatbread
Faith and Poiltics should remain separate. This is a very controversial issue for most, but there are many religions that oppose certain medical practices. Who are we to jugde based on the outcome?
Okay... not to cause an argument but she was an 11 year old. If you are over 18 and want to refuse help for yourself.. fine... But an 11 year old cannot choose for herself and by not providing appropriate care for a child in a coma... that is neglect. You have a responsibility as a parent to make sure your children are fed, clothed, schooled and provided medical care. Sorry... that's the bottom line!
Again.. I am not directing this at you I am just so furious over the epidemic of neglect in this country and people doing nothing about it. I work with a lot of low income children... and I just can't stand it!!!!!!!!! Please don't take personal offense because I quoted you.
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Posted 3/27/08 3:42 PM |
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headoverheels
s'il vous plaît
Member since 6/07 42079 total posts
Name: LB
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Posted by MrsS2005
Posted by MrsFlatbread
Faith and Poiltics should remain separate. This is a very controversial issue for most, but there are many religions that oppose certain medical practices. Who are we to jugde based on the outcome?
I think we absolutely have a right to judge when there are children involved. If an adult chooses prayer over medical intervention, that's his or her choice. I think children need to be protected when their health or lives are in danger.
ITA with this. it's the reason there are laws in EVERY state against medical neglect of a child.
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Posted 3/27/08 3:43 PM |
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SweetTooth
I'm a tired mommy!
Member since 12/05 20105 total posts
Name: Lauren
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
This is very sad, but I do not believe the parents will be charged with any kind of homicide, there have been cases of this before.
Here is an article about it:
witholding medical treatment
If an adult is religious and wants to refuse medical care, thats one thing, but I don't think its right for a child who can't make that decision for themselves. So sad.
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Posted 3/27/08 3:44 PM |
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Such a terrible story.
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Posted 3/27/08 3:44 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name: remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
the thing that interests me is that these people were not part of any organized religion. they weren't Jehovahs Witnesses or any other religion where the paramenters are expressly laid out.
they moved to a smaller town...took the daughter out of school for home schoolling.....there is something a bit more "off" to this than being fervently religious or a part of a recognized organized religion.
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Posted 3/27/08 3:46 PM |
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SweetTooth
I'm a tired mommy!
Member since 12/05 20105 total posts
Name: Lauren
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
So why does the legal protection derived from so-called individual "freedom of religion" cover these injuries the devout inflict on others — including family members incapable of making informed consent? In all but four states (Hawaii, Massachusetts, Nebraska and North Carolina) parents can use their religious ideology as a shield against prosecution for withholding medical treatment from their children.
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Posted 3/27/08 3:47 PM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name: Susan
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
it's not the parents choice when a child is sick. If a child is sick and doesn't get the care, the child is neglected. Enter CPS. You have a responsibility to take care of your child. Praying on it is great, but it's not like there wasn't medical attention available.
That's not parenting, that's sticking your head in the sand.
Flame away..that's just how I see it.
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Posted 3/27/08 3:48 PM |
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headoverheels
s'il vous plaît
Member since 6/07 42079 total posts
Name: LB
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Posted by SweetTooth
So why does the legal protection derived from so-called individual "freedom of religion" cover these injuries the devout inflict on others — including family members incapable of making informed consent? In all but four states (Hawaii, Massachusetts, Nebraska and North Carolina) parents can use their religious ideology as a shield against prosecution for withholding medical treatment from their children.
i am glad you clarified this - i truly believe it's sad. i am not one to judge ANYONE's beliefs but the reality is, these are the PARENTS beliefs, not the child's. this is why i think that these "religious exceptions" to the law are simply unfair to the children - which is who we should be protecting in the first place. JMO.
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Posted 3/27/08 3:50 PM |
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CaMacho
Sisters :)
Member since 7/06 15112 total posts
Name: Jess
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Unbelievable.
I wonder if we ask the parents now - Would you choose prayer over doctors if this happened to one of your other children? - what they would say...
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Posted 3/27/08 3:52 PM |
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MrsPJB2007
MBA at your service!
Member since 7/06 12020 total posts
Name: MJ
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Posted by MrsS2005
Posted by MrsFlatbread
Faith and Poiltics should remain separate. This is a very controversial issue for most, but there are many religions that oppose certain medical practices. Who are we to jugde based on the outcome?
I think we absolutely have a right to judge when there are children involved. If an adult chooses prayer over medical intervention, that's his or her choice. I think children need to be protected when their health or lives are in danger.
ITA
this isn't a political issue---this is an issue of parents who neglected to get the proper care for the child. i understand that they have a right to religious freedom--but what about when this infringes on the rights of the minor child?
perhaps this little girl wanted medical help? what if she wanted to go to a doctor to get better? her parents made the choice that she wouldn't get this help---and her death was a result. they could easily have prayed for her recovery while at least having her looked at by a doctor.
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Posted 3/27/08 3:52 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name: remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Posted by SweetTooth
So why does the legal protection derived from so-called individual "freedom of religion" cover these injuries the devout inflict on others — including family members incapable of making informed consent? In all but four states (Hawaii, Massachusetts, Nebraska and North Carolina) parents can use their religious ideology as a shield against prosecution for withholding medical treatment from their children.
it seems like the supreme court is sympathetic to the issue of the child's rights...but reading further you see why nothing has come of it.....too much political pressure.
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Posted 3/27/08 3:52 PM |
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saraH
happy birthday sweet kate!
Member since 5/05 16555 total posts
Name: I know that God exsists, I held her in my arms...
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Oh, this gets me soooo angry. We prayed for DD while she was in the NCIU, but in no way did we ever interfere with her care. I hate this. Pray for your child, but take her to the damn doctor.
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Posted 3/27/08 3:53 PM |
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headoverheels
s'il vous plaît
Member since 6/07 42079 total posts
Name: LB
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Posted by saraH
Pray for your child, but take her to the damn doctor.
well said
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Posted 3/27/08 3:54 PM |
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MrsFlatbread
Skinny jeans are in my future
Member since 6/06 10258 total posts
Name: Baby Momma
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Posted by Ophelia
the thing that interests me is that these people were not part of any organized religion. they weren't Jehovahs Witnesses or any other religion where the paramenters are expressly laid out.
they moved to a smaller town...took the daughter out of school for home schoolling.....there is something a bit more "off" to this than being fervently religious or a part of a recognized organized religion.
But who are we to judge their faith ? Very sad situation.
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Posted 3/27/08 3:58 PM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name: BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Posted by Ophelia
the thing that interests me is that these people were not part of any organized religion. they weren't Jehovahs Witnesses or any other religion where the paramenters are expressly laid out.
they moved to a smaller town...took the daughter out of school for home schoolling.....there is something a bit more "off" to this than being fervently religious or a part of a recognized organized religion.
I agree.
Call me cynical, but their actions leading up to this childs death do seem a bit suspect to me.
I could see if they said they were Christian Scientists but they specifically state they're not affiliated with any religion and have nothing against doctors. If that is really the case, why didnt' they just bring her to a doctor? They could have still prayed for her but at least she would have received the medical attention she needed.
I do think this is a form of abuse/neglect whether it is legally or not.
Such a sad case.
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Posted 3/27/08 3:59 PM |
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MrsFlatbread
Skinny jeans are in my future
Member since 6/06 10258 total posts
Name: Baby Momma
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Posted by MrsPJB2007
Posted by MrsS2005
Posted by MrsFlatbread
Faith and Poiltics should remain separate. This is a very controversial issue for most, but there are many religions that oppose certain medical practices. Who are we to jugde based on the outcome?
I think we absolutely have a right to judge when there are children involved. If an adult chooses prayer over medical intervention, that's his or her choice. I think children need to be protected when their health or lives are in danger.
ITA
this isn't a political issue---this is an issue of parents who neglected to get the proper care for the child. i understand that they have a right to religious freedom--but what about when this infringes on the rights of the minor child?
perhaps this little girl wanted medical help? what if she wanted to go to a doctor to get better? her parents made the choice that she wouldn't get this help---and her death was a result. they could easily have prayed for her recovery while at least having her looked at by a doctor.
It will become a political issue if they are taken to court for their child's death.
And in many other countries outside the US, prayer, meditation and herbs are used as a form of medicine, is it any different in those countries whose culture is to reject modern medicine and children die as a result?
Message edited 3/27/2008 4:02:54 PM.
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Posted 3/27/08 4:01 PM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name: BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Posted by MrsFlatbread
Posted by Ophelia
the thing that interests me is that these people were not part of any organized religion. they weren't Jehovahs Witnesses or any other religion where the paramenters are expressly laid out.
they moved to a smaller town...took the daughter out of school for home schoolling.....there is something a bit more "off" to this than being fervently religious or a part of a recognized organized religion.
But who are we to judge their faith ? Very sad situation.
For me, it's not a matter of judging their faith. It's judging their parenting skills which IMO was deserved in this situation.
I suspect it happens often... Teachers report situations where they feel there is either abuse or neglect.
How is this different?
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Posted 3/27/08 4:01 PM |
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MrsS2005
Mom of 3
Member since 11/05 13118 total posts
Name: B
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Posted by SweetTooth
So why does the legal protection derived from so-called individual "freedom of religion" cover these injuries the devout inflict on others — including family members incapable of making informed consent? In all but four states (Hawaii, Massachusetts, Nebraska and North Carolina) parents can use their religious ideology as a shield against prosecution for withholding medical treatment from their children.
They may avoid prosecution, but they still run the risk of having their kids taken away from them b/c of neglect. Unfortunately, in this situation, it was too late for any agency to intervene.
Personally, I think parents who put their children's lives in danger by refusing medical treatment should be prosecuted. Children shouldn't suffer b/c of their parents' beliefs.
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Posted 3/27/08 4:03 PM |
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Kidsaplenty
Sister love
Member since 2/06 5971 total posts
Name: Stephanie
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Posted by Ophelia
the thing that interests me is that these people were not part of any organized religion. they weren't Jehovahs Witnesses or any other religion where the paramenters are expressly laid out.
they moved to a smaller town...took the daughter out of school for home schoolling.....there is something a bit more "off" to this than being fervently religious or a part of a recognized organized religion.
Why does it matter? Do you have to be part of an organized religion to have strong personal religious beliefs?
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Posted 3/27/08 4:04 PM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name: BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: Parents Pick Prayer over Doctor's Care, Girl Dies...
Posted by MrsFlatbread
Posted by MrsPJB2007
Posted by MrsS2005
Posted by MrsFlatbread
Faith and Poiltics should remain separate. This is a very controversial issue for most, but there are many religions that oppose certain medical practices. Who are we to jugde based on the outcome?
I think we absolutely have a right to judge when there are children involved. If an adult chooses prayer over medical intervention, that's his or her choice. I think children need to be protected when their health or lives are in danger.
ITA
this isn't a political issue---this is an issue of parents who neglected to get the proper care for the child. i understand that they have a right to religious freedom--but what about when this infringes on the rights of the minor child?
perhaps this little girl wanted medical help? what if she wanted to go to a doctor to get better? her parents made the choice that she wouldn't get this help---and her death was a result. they could easily have prayed for her recovery while at least having her looked at by a doctor.
It will become a political issue if they are taken to court for their child's death.
And in many other countries outside the US, prayer, meditation and herbs are used as a form of medicine, is it any different in those countries?
It's different in the sense that it's a different country. There are different laws people have to abide by.
In the middle east women have to cover their faces, here we don't. We don't tell them what to do there, but they don't tell us what to do here.
In this country there are laws outlining neglect. If there's enough evidence against these parents, I would expect the authorities to build and set forth a case against these parents.
I equate it to any neglect case.
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Posted 3/27/08 4:04 PM |
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