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Deedlebugs
Blessed
Member since 12/05 10281 total posts
Name:
Kiki
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
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Posted 9/11/11 7:46 AM  |
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Salason
♥
Member since 6/05 9878 total posts
Name:
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by lilqtny
I wasn't going to reply either, but we are just three hours away from the day that changed our country forever. The fact that people think it's okay to argue over this now is sickening.
I would like to think we could put our differences aside and pause to remember that we are all lucky to still be here in this amazing country.
I pledge allegiance....
Seriously, can people just shelve the issue for TODAY? The energy you put into proving your point could be spent reflecting on those who lost their lives and those who put their faith in GOD to run into burning buildings trying to save them...
Message edited 9/11/2011 8:45:37 AM.
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| Posted 9/11/11 8:02 AM |
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bookworm
Two Little Rosebuds
Member since 8/09 2106 total posts
Name:
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Actually I was the first one to use the word "creepy", but I guess you didn't bother to read the entire thread before you started throwing another tantrum. Frankly, I see no reason why you need to insert such mud-slinging hostility into what started off as a calm, reasonable, and honest philosophical discussion among intelligent women. Honestly, get a hold of yourself. Those of us who question the validity of the pledge support pro-pledgers' rights to feel passionately supportive of the pledge here in the land of the free, home of the brave. I wish I saw the same respect and courtesy consistently returned (as it has been by many pro-pledgers who have contributed compelling explanations of their points of view).
But I find it creepy (ironic, bizarre) to FORCE children who don't really have the ability to fully understand abstract ideas (like freedom and justice and allegiance) and their ramifications until maybe middle school (that's some child development info for you) to stand and PLEDGE in unison their ALLEGIANCE to anything. It's completely contradictory to everything we stand for. Do I make a big deal out of it? No. Do I have better things to worry about? Yes. But someone asked, so those are my 2 cents. On a philosophical level, it's hypocritical to force someone to "pledge allegiance...for liberty and justice for all." It goes against freedom of thought, and that's why it reminds me of 1984. Have you read it?
And some of you act like nationalism (or patriotism) make you a more moral and just person when in fact nationalism has historically been the motive behind much oppression and bloodshed because it often creates a climate of intolerance when it gets out of hand. I like to see my country with a clear head so I can spot its flaws. That's where progress comes from.
And as far as the history, I realize the Puritans who settled this country were a deeply religious people, so the foundations of our culture are decidedly Christian. However, is anyone trying to deny that the founding fathers instilled separation of church and state to protect religious freedom for all posterity? Historically, we haven't always done a great job of sticking to this or some of our other basic principles (like freedom and justice for all). But one of the great things about America is the elasticity of the constitution, so we can grow to be a more just nation over time. So I wouldn't say our nation is "based" on God. Maybe God was the motivation, but not the foundation. The principles dreamed up by the Puritans and set forth by the founding fathers protect our rights to worship Allah, or trees, or nothing at all. Again, I have bigger fish to fry, but those words have no business in the pledge.
But for today I'm going to pledge my gratitude to the police and firefighters who died putting their lives on the line for others or those who are still suffering in the aftermath. I pledge my commitment to the survivors and their families. I pledge my empathy to the New Yorkers living in fear today.
Be nice.
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| Posted 9/11/11 8:21 AM |
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Babymakin
LIF Adult
Member since 12/10 920 total posts
Name:
Sarah
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by Little-J-Mommy
Posted by ChrisDee
This is America, it is tradition and it is outrageous to me to even question it. GOOD LORD! oops I said Lord
ITA. I think there's nothing wrong with trying to instill a sense of national pride in our kids. Knowing that they should stand, take off their hat, place their hand over their heart and say the pledge at a baseball game or wherever. School is where they learn it. If it's not repeated often, it will be forgotten. And leave the UNDER GOD...that's how it was written. JMO
under god was added during cold war
No flame. It was added 1954 by Eisenhower. NOT for the cold war in the 80,s.
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| Posted 9/11/11 9:15 AM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
But the tone of this thread is:
Against the Pledge of Allegiance in school = doesn't love & appreciate our country. Now it's taken a turn to doesn't care about those who sacrificed their lives to save people on 9/11?
Those for the pledge of Allegiance = upstanding citizen, cares about this country, it's FDNY, it's NYPD, etc.
You put energy in to respond to this thread & further added that we shouldn't be responding to this thread but reflecting on those that perished on 9/11. But anyone who puts the energy into this thread who disagrees isn't a patriot?
For the record, I say the pledge. My children say the pledge. I'm off to church in 5 minutes where I'm sure it's going to be packed. But as an American, I'll be damned if I'm going to stand by and let those that don't say the pledge, aren't comfortable with the "under God" part be told to leave this country if they don't like it, be called unpatriotic, being told they don't care about those responders. ESPECIALLY ON THIS DAY.
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| Posted 9/11/11 9:15 AM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by bookworm
Actually I was the first one to use the word "creepy", but I guess you didn't bother to read the entire thread before you started throwing another tantrum. Frankly, I see no reason why you need to insert such mud-slinging hostility into what started off as a calm, reasonable, and honest philosophical discussion among intelligent women. Honestly, get a hold of yourself. Those of us who question the validity of the pledge support pro-pledgers' rights to feel passionately supportive of the pledge here in the land of the free, home of the brave. I wish I saw the same respect and courtesy consistently returned (as it has been by many pro-pledgers who have contributed compelling explanations of their points of view).
But I find it creepy (ironic, bizarre) to FORCE children who don't really have the ability to fully understand abstract ideas (like freedom and justice and allegiance) and their ramifications until maybe middle school (that's some child development info for you) to stand and PLEDGE in unison their ALLEGIANCE to anything. It's completely contradictory to everything we stand for. Do I make a big deal out of it? No. Do I have better things to worry about? Yes. But someone asked, so those are my 2 cents. On a philosophical level, it's hypocritical to force someone to "pledge allegiance...for liberty and justice for all." It goes against freedom of thought, and that's why it reminds me of 1984. Have you read it?
And some of you act like nationalism (or patriotism) make you a more moral and just person when in fact nationalism has historically been the motive behind much oppression and bloodshed because it often creates a climate of intolerance when it gets out of hand. I like to see my country with a clear head so I can spot its flaws. That's where progress comes from.
And as far as the history, I realize the Puritans who settled this country were a deeply religious people, so the foundations of our culture are decidedly Christian. However, is anyone trying to deny that the founding fathers instilled separation of church and state to protect religious freedom for all posterity? Historically, we haven't always done a great job of sticking to this or some of our other basic principles (like freedom and justice for all). But one of the great things about America is the elasticity of the constitution, so we can grow to be a more just nation over time. So I wouldn't say our nation is "based" on God. Maybe God was the motivation, but not the foundation. The principles dreamed up by the Puritans and set forth by the founding fathers protect our rights to worship Allah, or trees, or nothing at all. Again, I have bigger fish to fry, but those words have no business in the pledge.
But for today I'm going to pledge my gratitude to the police and firefighters who died putting their lives on the line for others or those who are still suffering in the aftermath. I pledge my commitment to the survivors and their families. I pledge my empathy to the New Yorkers living in fear today.
Be nice.
So very, very well said.
Message edited 9/11/2011 9:41:00 AM.
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| Posted 9/11/11 9:40 AM |
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Erica
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 11767 total posts
Name:
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by Babymakin
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by Little-J-Mommy
Posted by ChrisDee
This is America, it is tradition and it is outrageous to me to even question it. GOOD LORD! oops I said Lord
ITA. I think there's nothing wrong with trying to instill a sense of national pride in our kids. Knowing that they should stand, take off their hat, place their hand over their heart and say the pledge at a baseball game or wherever. School is where they learn it. If it's not repeated often, it will be forgotten. And leave the UNDER GOD...that's how it was written. JMO
under god was added during cold war
No flame. It was added 1954 by Eisenhower. NOT for the cold war in the 80,s.
the cold war started in 1945
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| Posted 9/11/11 9:40 AM |
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Salason
♥
Member since 6/05 9878 total posts
Name:
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by nrthshgrl
But the tone of this thread is:
Against the Pledge of Allegiance in school = doesn't love & appreciate our country. Now it's taken a turn to doesn't care about those who sacrificed their lives to save people on 9/11?
Those for the pledge of Allegiance = upstanding citizen, cares about this country, it's FDNY, it's NYPD, etc.
You put energy in to respond to this thread & further added that we shouldn't be responding to this thread but reflecting on those that perished on 9/11. But anyone who puts the energy into this thread who disagrees isn't a patriot?
For the record, I say the pledge. My children say the pledge. I'm off to church in 5 minutes where I'm sure it's going to be packed. But as an American, I'll be damned if I'm going to stand by and let those that don't say the pledge, aren't comfortable with the "under God" part be told to leave this country if they don't like it, be called unpatriotic, being told they don't care about those responders. ESPECIALLY ON THIS DAY.
At what part of my post did I specify that it was directed at only those who disgreed? I also never said people who disagree don't care about those who died in 9/11 nor did I call anyone unpatriotic. I just personally feel that today isn't the appropriate day to bicker back and forth about the pledge (whatever side you fall on.)
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| Posted 9/11/11 9:43 AM |
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Erica
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 11767 total posts
Name:
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by bookworm
And as far as the history, I realize the Puritans who settled this country were a deeply religious people, so the foundations of our culture are decidedly Christian. However, is anyone trying to deny that the founding fathers instilled separation of church and state to protect religious freedom for all posterity? Historically, we haven't always done a great job of sticking to this or some of our other basic principles (like freedom and justice for all). But one of the great things about America is the elasticity of the constitution, so we can grow to be a more just nation over time. So I wouldn't say our nation is "based" on God. Maybe God was the motivation, but not the foundation. The principles dreamed up by the Puritans and set forth by the founding fathers protect our rights to worship Allah, or trees, or nothing at all. Again, I have bigger fish to fry, but those words have no business in the pledge.
I think people often confuse the portion of the settlers (puritans/pilgrims) to the founding fathers, who were Enlightened Deists. I'm thankful that those founding fathers were unpatriotic to Great Britain.
FWIW - I second reading Orwell. He changed my life. 1984, Animal Farm, Burmese Days...his perspective on humanity is unmatched.
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| Posted 9/11/11 9:44 AM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11487 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by Erica
Posted by Babymakin
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by Little-J-Mommy
Posted by ChrisDee
This is America, it is tradition and it is outrageous to me to even question it. GOOD LORD! oops I said Lord
ITA. I think there's nothing wrong with trying to instill a sense of national pride in our kids. Knowing that they should stand, take off their hat, place their hand over their heart and say the pledge at a baseball game or wherever. School is where they learn it. If it's not repeated often, it will be forgotten. And leave the UNDER GOD...that's how it was written. JMO
under god was added during cold war
No flame. It was added 1954 by Eisenhower. NOT for the cold war in the 80,s.
the cold war started in 1945
I'm glad someone said it. 
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| Posted 9/11/11 10:52 AM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by bookworm
Actually I was the first one to use the word "creepy", but I guess you didn't bother to read the entire thread before you started throwing another tantrum. Frankly, I see no reason why you need to insert such mud-slinging hostility into what started off as a calm, reasonable, and honest philosophical discussion among intelligent women. Honestly, get a hold of yourself. Those of us who question the validity of the pledge support pro-pledgers' rights to feel passionately supportive of the pledge here in the land of the free, home of the brave. I wish I saw the same respect and courtesy consistently returned (as it has been by many pro-pledgers who have contributed compelling explanations of their points of view).
But I find it creepy (ironic, bizarre) to FORCE children who don't really have the ability to fully understand abstract ideas (like freedom and justice and allegiance) and their ramifications until maybe middle school (that's some child development info for you) to stand and PLEDGE in unison their ALLEGIANCE to anything. It's completely contradictory to everything we stand for. Do I make a big deal out of it? No. Do I have better things to worry about? Yes. But someone asked, so those are my 2 cents. On a philosophical level, it's hypocritical to force someone to "pledge allegiance...for liberty and justice for all." It goes against freedom of thought, and that's why it reminds me of 1984. Have you read it?
And some of you act like nationalism (or patriotism) make you a more moral and just person when in fact nationalism has historically been the motive behind much oppression and bloodshed because it often creates a climate of intolerance when it gets out of hand. I like to see my country with a clear head so I can spot its flaws. That's where progress comes from.
And as far as the history, I realize the Puritans who settled this country were a deeply religious people, so the foundations of our culture are decidedly Christian. However, is anyone trying to deny that the founding fathers instilled separation of church and state to protect religious freedom for all posterity? Historically, we haven't always done a great job of sticking to this or some of our other basic principles (like freedom and justice for all). But one of the great things about America is the elasticity of the constitution, so we can grow to be a more just nation over time. So I wouldn't say our nation is "based" on God. Maybe God was the motivation, but not the foundation. The principles dreamed up by the Puritans and set forth by the founding fathers protect our rights to worship Allah, or trees, or nothing at all. Again, I have bigger fish to fry, but those words have no business in the pledge.
But for today I'm going to pledge my gratitude to the police and firefighters who died putting their lives on the line for others or those who are still suffering in the aftermath. I pledge my commitment to the survivors and their families. I pledge my empathy to the New Yorkers living in fear today.
Be nice.
I read ALL the previous posts.
I am not having a "tantrum".
I stand by everything I have said in this thread.
Have a lovely day.
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| Posted 9/11/11 11:39 AM |
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
The beautiful thing about America is that you have a CHOICE to do many things, including saying the Pledge. I think it is important to be taught in schools these days, especially for children of immigrant (used loosely) parents.
Secondly, if your child never learned the pledge from you (for whatever reason) and came home, I am sure they would tell you about it. At that time you can discuss with your child your feelings about it and let them know it is optional, because of our freedom. As for the God part, I think it is outdated and a bit macro-culture. Say it if it means anything to you, leave it out if it doesn't. Again, someone needs to teach these kids if the parents don't find it important to do so so they can choose for themselves. As for me, I knew it LONG before I ever stepped foot in a classroom and my children will as well.
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| Posted 9/11/11 11:46 AM |
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monkeybride
My Everything
Member since 5/05 20541 total posts
Name:
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by BaseballWidow
The beautiful thing about America is that you have a CHOICE to do many things, including saying the Pledge. I think it is important to be taught in schools these days, especially for children of immigrant (used loosely) parents.
Secondly, if your child never learned the pledge from you (for whatever reason) and came home, I am sure they would tell you about it. At that time you can discuss with your child your feelings about it and let them know it is optional, because of our freedom. As for the God part, I think it is outdated and a bit macro-culture. Say it if it means anything to you, leave it out if it doesn't. Again, someone needs to teach these kids if the parents don't find it important to do so so they can choose for themselves. As for me, I knew it LONG before I ever stepped foot in a classroom and my children will as well.
Interesting. I can honestly say the thought never crossed my mind to teach my children the pledge. My DD was in private preschool and a charter Montessori and never learned it. Only now as a 1st grader do they say it but I only know that b/c I was there one day for announcements. She hasn't mentioned it yet. I will be curious when she does.
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| Posted 9/11/11 2:40 PM |
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mrsBLT
missing my baby
Member since 1/10 1359 total posts
Name:
Brittany
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
i am all for saying every word, every day.
i still remember the lesson on the pledge that i received in first grade. we learned the words and what they meant. my teacher helped us understand by relating the ideas to things that we could relate to.
i don't think it needs to be taken out of schools but i do think that schools need to make sure that teaching students about the pledge is part of the curriculum.
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| Posted 9/11/11 3:01 PM |
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MikesBride
LIF Adult
Member since 12/09 1245 total posts
Name:
Ilana
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by Blazesyth
Posted by MsMBV
Posted by nrthshgrl
I'm undecided as to if it should be said in school. I don't know that I find it necessary to pledge your allegiance to a country on a daily basis.
As for the "under God" part, I think it should be taken out & brought back to its original form. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pledge_of_Allegiance#Addition_of_.22under_God.22
This is a nation that is supposed to have a separation of church & state. And before it's brought up, I don't think "In God We Trust" should be printed on our money either. I don't agree with Congress's decision that those phrases have lost religious meaning.
I agree with this.
Honestly my biggest concern is not the "Under God" part, although it doesn't thrill me. Basically, you are forcing minors to Pledge their allegiance to this country. They don't understand what they are saying, and unless things have changed since I was in school, they don't explain what you are actually pledging. I think it should be discussed to educate the students, and be optional, not mandatory.
I was doing some googling about this, and found a skit from a comedy group who redid the pledge.
I pledge allegiance
To the flag
Of the United States of America
Thank you very, very much for letting us little kids live here.
It really, really was nice of you.
You didn’t have to do it.
And it’s really not freaky that us little, little kids
Mindlessly recite this anthem
Every day
And pledge their life to a government
Before they’re old enough to really think about what they’re saying.
This is not a form of brainwashing.
This is not a form of brainwashing.
This is not a form of brainwashing.
This is really the greatest country in the whole world.
All the other countries suck.
And if this country ever goes to war,
As it’s often wont to do,
I promise to help go and kill all the other countries’ kids.
God bless Johnson & Johnson.
God bless GE.
God bless Citigroup.
Amen.
 This basically sums up my feelings on the subject.
Also, for those who are mud-slinging...get a grip. The beautiful thing about this country is that we're all allowed to have differing opinions. Now RESPECT that fact and stop calling people who disagree with children saying the pledge every day ignorant...you only make yourself look that way.
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| Posted 9/11/11 5:15 PM |
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MrsGmomof3
...
Member since 6/08 3290 total posts
Name:
Irrelevant
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by Xelindrya
Every. Single. Morning.
Every. Single. Word.
Even from an Agnostic (or close to it) yes, every single word.
We used to have to say the pledge
Sing the National Anthem
AND sing Our Country Tis of Thee
Furthermore, we were required to stand up and hold our hands over our hearts and face the flag not only at school but at the local movies as well. Every movie, Every time.
Exactly
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| Posted 9/11/11 5:25 PM |
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Goldi0218
My miracles!
Member since 12/05 23902 total posts
Name:
Leslie
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
I went to elementary school in the 70s. Middle and High School in the 80s. In elementary school, we recited the pledge with our hands on our hearts and sang "My Country Tis of Thee" immediately following. I took no issues with it. My family took no issues with it and if my children were asked to do the same, I'd support it fully. Im tired of political correctness. If you don't believe in it, don't say it. Sit down. I don't care what you do. But Ill be damned if I'll let you keep ME or my kids from expressing themselves. When I hear the national anthem, I sing it loud, out of tune and with tears in my eyes.
FTR we are so full of political correctness that my agency doesnt have holiday parties in the winter. We have "annual gatherings" so the Jehovah Witnesses can participate. Funny, but one year it was held on a Friday night. Really? Guess who sat THAT one out on protest. SKREW that!!! And I ain't even Shomer Shabbos. (For those who don't know what that is - take an opportunity to educate yourself and look it up.)
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| Posted 9/11/11 5:32 PM |
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DiamondGirl
You are my I love you
Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
Name:
DiamondMama
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Something that bothers me is that on more than one occasion students have said something to the effect of they do not say the pledge bc this is not their country.
Obviously their parents must have taught them this.
We are all entitled to our opinions but if you are sitting in a public school in America you are receiving a Free And Appropriate Education in the good old US OF A. So yeah it pisses me the fuc*k off when kids (repeating what their parents have said) say things of this nature.
Opinions are one thing but have some respect. You don't want to say the pledge, no one is going to force you. But you will not take away my children or my right TO recite it in a classroom in MY county. Period.
Message edited 9/11/2011 6:02:51 PM.
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| Posted 9/11/11 6:00 PM |
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lilqtny
-Crossfit & pitbull addict
Member since 7/06 2830 total posts
Name:
Tracy
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by nrthshgrl
But the tone of this thread is:
Against the Pledge of Allegiance in school = doesn't love & appreciate our country. Now it's taken a turn to doesn't care about those who sacrificed their lives to save people on 9/11?
Those for the pledge of Allegiance = upstanding citizen, cares about this country, it's FDNY, it's NYPD, etc.
You put energy in to respond to this thread & further added that we shouldn't be responding to this thread but reflecting on those that perished on 9/11. But anyone who puts the energy into this thread who disagrees isn't a patriot?
For the record, I say the pledge. My children say the pledge. I'm off to church in 5 minutes where I'm sure it's going to be packed. But as an American, I'll be damned if I'm going to stand by and let those that don't say the pledge, aren't comfortable with the "under God" part be told to leave this country if they don't like it, be called unpatriotic, being told they don't care about those responders. ESPECIALLY ON THIS DAY.[/QUOTE
Where exactly is it that I question anybody's patrotism? Where exactly did I tell those who don't want to say the pledge to get out? or call any person unpatriotic? All I asked was that we tried to put our differences aside for a day. I didn't even say not to respond actually. So I am not sure what post you are responding to but you quoted mine. ALl I asked was that we remember how lucky we are not only to be in this country but to have survived the horrors that occured 10 years ago.
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| Posted 9/11/11 9:19 PM |
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
I didn't read through this and really don't care to. I am pro pledge. If they cut it out of school guess what my kids will stand before our flag every morning and say it, hands over their hearts, and will understand what it means, when it was written, and for what reason. Just like when the national anthem sounds, my kids will stand quietly, hand over heart and listen to every single word (hopefully sung correctly). For me it means something. I grew up in Texas and we were taught what it meant. Guess what if they take out the under god portion, my kids will learn both, because we believe in a god. I agree with the above poster who said some people will take offense to anything and everything. Your always going to find someone on the other side of the fence.
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| Posted 9/11/11 10:54 PM |
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bayla
Love my two kiddos :)
Member since 8/06 7178 total posts
Name:
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by CookieMomster
I didn't read through this and really don't care to. I am pro pledge. If they cut it out of school guess what my kids will stand before our flag every morning and say it, hands over their hearts, and will understand what it means, when it was written, and for what reason. Just like when the national anthem sounds, my kids will stand quietly, hand over heart and listen to every single word (hopefully sung correctly). For me it means something
ITA This morning my 4 yr old DS saw the american flag on TV, put his hand to his heart and tried to say the pledge (they say it in his preschool). Then he turned to me, and said I love the united states. I didn't prompt him, I didn't tell him what to say, he just said it because he felt it. It brought tears to my eyes, especially today
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| Posted 9/11/11 11:06 PM |
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MrsKS
Thank You St. Gerard.....
Member since 12/09 8306 total posts
Name:
Kerri
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by Tilde
It should be said out loud and every single day - every single word.
I am already teaching it to my ONE YEAR OLD.
My parents were not born in this country and I knew it before setting foot in a school. Heck, my mother isn't even a citizen and she was the one who taught it to me!
Think kids don't know what it means? Show them. Teach it to them. Teach them all about it. Tell them what it means to a person who left their home country and became a citizen! Tell them what it means to someone fighting for our country! Talk about it!
I'm not about to read this whole thread.. in addition to it being insanely long there's also a lot of drama in it and that just sounds like birds squalking to me.
I do want to say that I agree with this. It's interesting to me that people.. teachers, parents...etc are stating how the kids don't know what it means and are just reciting it like robots and how it means nothing to them. Well then I ask WHY NOT teach it to them?? I don't understand why it wouldn't be taught then? How about a lesson on it? (in school or the home). Of course there's no buy in if there's no REASON to buy into it. But rather than waste time talking about how they don't understand it so they shouldn't say it... that time should be spend teaching it to the kids so they understand what it is.. give them a reason to believe in it.
I just don't understand this argument AT ALL!!
I remember saying it at a kid. And I understood the basics to it... that it was national and showed patriotism... something to make us all the same even though we were all different... we are ALL Americans. This was as a 1st grader that I thought this. There's no reason why kids can't understand it so long as it's taught to them. I enjoyed saying it.. and I like looking back on those days in school where we said it.
the under god part.. omit that then if you don't like it. I don't care that it's in there. But really I don't see an uproar over money... in god we trust is written on money... people don't go crazy over that... heck they just want more and more of it!!
what's great about the USA is that we are free to have major differences of opinion... on any topic. but the one thing we should come together on.. is a feeling of patriotism. and this is what the national anthem is to me. i don't see anything wrong with that in the least.
bottom line.. it should be said.. if not everyday then at least once a week or once a month. I DEFINITELY don't think it should die.
Message edited 9/12/2011 2:13:08 AM.
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| Posted 9/12/11 2:01 AM |
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MrsKS
Thank You St. Gerard.....
Member since 12/09 8306 total posts
Name:
Kerri
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by bayla
Posted by CookieMomster
I didn't read through this and really don't care to. I am pro pledge. If they cut it out of school guess what my kids will stand before our flag every morning and say it, hands over their hearts, and will understand what it means, when it was written, and for what reason. Just like when the national anthem sounds, my kids will stand quietly, hand over heart and listen to every single word (hopefully sung correctly). For me it means something
ITA This morning my 4 yr old DS saw the american flag on TV, put his hand to his heart and tried to say the pledge (they say it in his preschool). Then he turned to me, and said I love the united states. I didn't prompt him, I didn't tell him what to say, he just said it because he felt it. It brought tears to my eyes, especially today
LOVE!
this is how they should feel. and i believe that if a respect and love of our country is instilled in kids early on, only good can come of it... they are our future. hopefully it would make them want to make this the best america it can be.
they should feel pride in the place in which they live. that's important. you can't be happy if you are hating on where you are living.
not to say you have to LOVE everything about out nation.. that's not possible. but to really hate the ground you are standing upon is sad. something tells me those people will hate any ground they stand on though.
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| Posted 9/12/11 2:04 AM |
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MrsKS
Thank You St. Gerard.....
Member since 12/09 8306 total posts
Name:
Kerri
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by DiamondGirl
Something that bothers me is that on more than one occasion students have said something to the effect of they do not say the pledge bc this is not their country.
Obviously their parents must have taught them this.
We are all entitled to our opinions but if you are sitting in a public school in America you are receiving a Free And Appropriate Education in the good old US OF A. So yeah it pisses me the fuc*k off when kids (repeating what their parents have said) say things of this nature.
Opinions are one thing but have some respect. You don't want to say the pledge, no one is going to force you. But you will not take away my children or my right TO recite it in a classroom in MY county. Period.
i couldn't agree more. it's obnoxious to even state such. i truly believe you shouldn't be living here with your whole heart in another place. if you come here to live for the rest of your life... then find some buy in to this country. period. you can still love the place you came from... but understand that once you become a citizen you are a part of this country.
if you are living here, working here, going to school here... you are a part of the USA.
If i up and moved to germany I'd be a part of germany. i don't understand the mentality of refusing to become a part of where you live.
Message edited 9/12/2011 2:14:49 AM.
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| Posted 9/12/11 2:07 AM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: Pledge of Allegiance
Posted by bookworm
Actually I was the first one to use the word "creepy", but I guess you didn't bother to read the entire thread before you started throwing another tantrum. Frankly, I see no reason why you need to insert such mud-slinging hostility into what started off as a calm, reasonable, and honest philosophical discussion among intelligent women. Honestly, get a hold of yourself. Those of us who question the validity of the pledge support pro-pledgers' rights to feel passionately supportive of the pledge here in the land of the free, home of the brave. I wish I saw the same respect and courtesy consistently returned (as it has been by many pro-pledgers who have contributed compelling explanations of their points of view).
But I find it creepy (ironic, bizarre) to FORCE children who don't really have the ability to fully understand abstract ideas (like freedom and justice and allegiance) and their ramifications until maybe middle school (that's some child development info for you) to stand and PLEDGE in unison their ALLEGIANCE to anything. It's completely contradictory to everything we stand for. Do I make a big deal out of it? No. Do I have better things to worry about? Yes. But someone asked, so those are my 2 cents. On a philosophical level, it's hypocritical to force someone to "pledge allegiance...for liberty and justice for all." It goes against freedom of thought, and that's why it reminds me of 1984. Have you read it?
And some of you act like nationalism (or patriotism) make you a more moral and just person when in fact nationalism has historically been the motive behind much oppression and bloodshed because it often creates a climate of intolerance when it gets out of hand. I like to see my country with a clear head so I can spot its flaws. That's where progress comes from.
And as far as the history, I realize the Puritans who settled this country were a deeply religious people, so the foundations of our culture are decidedly Christian. However, is anyone trying to deny that the founding fathers instilled separation of church and state to protect religious freedom for all posterity? Historically, we haven't always done a great job of sticking to this or some of our other basic principles (like freedom and justice for all). But one of the great things about America is the elasticity of the constitution, so we can grow to be a more just nation over time. So I wouldn't say our nation is "based" on God. Maybe God was the motivation, but not the foundation. The principles dreamed up by the Puritans and set forth by the founding fathers protect our rights to worship Allah, or trees, or nothing at all. Again, I have bigger fish to fry, but those words have no business in the pledge.
But for today I'm going to pledge my gratitude to the police and firefighters who died putting their lives on the line for others or those who are still suffering in the aftermath. I pledge my commitment to the survivors and their families. I pledge my empathy to the New Yorkers living in fear today.
Be nice.
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| Posted 9/12/11 2:20 PM |
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