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MM2004
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Member since 5/05 1854 total posts
Name:
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Poll Are you refusing testing
I have a question for the the teachers and I hope this does not come out a snarky. I'm just curious on how much control do teachers have o n their lesson planning and how they choose to met standards.
Is there a problem with the Common Core Standards or just the test? Are you "required" to prep the kids for the test? I mean, if you are told so many are going to fail anyway, what is the point of prepping them?
I am a parent of a 4th grader and I wish schools would start prepping these kids for life, not a test.
Again, I'm just looking to learn about how teachers choose how and what to teach.
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Posted 4/7/15 6:27 PM  |
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cj7305
=)
Member since 8/05 12296 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
Posted by MM2004
I have a question for the the teachers and I hope this does not come out a snarky. I'm just curious on how much control do teachers have o n their lesson planning and how they choose to met standards.
Is there a problem with the Common Core Standards or just the test? Are you "required" to prep the kids for the test? I mean, if you are told so many are going to fail anyway, what is the point of prepping them?
I am a parent of a 4th grader and I wish schools would start prepping these kids for life, not a test.
Again, I'm just looking to learn about how teachers choose how and what to teach.
Not snarky at all. I am lucky enough to teach 2nd so we use a different online test (which isn't any better btw) but my colleagues in the higher grades (3-5th in my school) are absolutely expected by the district to do sample tests and test prep (but they like to call it something different). Although yes, there is a decent amount of children who will not do well due to the high readability and ambiguity of the questions, if teachers did not prep, the failure rate would be through the roof. The questions are asked in such a odd and unfamiliar way and children need to decipher which is the better answer. Often there are 2 good answers but 1 is better (and the only one that they get credit for). Teachers have much less control over what they do in the classrooms because of these tests. Years ago, we were given a topic and we went about teaching it in a variety of ways to reach every learner. these tests have taken that away.
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| Posted 4/7/15 7:32 PM |
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kgs11
LIF Adult
Member since 2/07 1424 total posts
Name:
Kim
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
Posted by MM2004
I have a question for the the teachers and I hope this does not come out a snarky. I'm just curious on how much control do teachers have o n their lesson planning and how they choose to met standards.
Is there a problem with the Common Core Standards or just the test? Are you "required" to prep the kids for the test? I mean, if you are told so many are going to fail anyway, what is the point of prepping them?
I am a parent of a 4th grader and I wish schools would start prepping these kids for life, not a test.
Again, I'm just looking to learn about how teachers choose how and what to teach.
In nyc, most schools are using the modules on the engageny website. Google it, you can download the entire curriculum (lea and math) and see how not kid/0-friendly it is. We are required to do whatever we are told. I teach 5th, and my students have 7 test prep books each.
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| Posted 4/7/15 9:26 PM |
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Chatham-Chick
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Member since 5/05 10311 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
Thank you!  Drafting them up now. 
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| Posted 4/7/15 9:48 PM |
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Kate
*****
Member since 5/05 7557 total posts
Name:
Kate
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
Posted by ChilisWife
Posted by Kate
I was seriously considering refusing the test. Then we received an email from the superintendent saying that the state tests will be one factor used in student placement. My DS got a perfect score on the practice math test and if it is going to be used to determine if he is in the G&T program, then I want him to take it.
Perhaps I am mistaken but it was my understanding that the test scores are not provided to schools until late Summer, AFTER placement has been decided.
If the child doesnt take the test, they cant consider it for placement and would need to rely on grades from during the school year. Which is fine by me. I would hate it if my kid had a bad day and didnt ace the test, and that was used against him for next year's placement regardless of his classroom performance!
Last year they chose kids for the G&T program based on one standardized test that my son did not do well on. So it was not based on classroom performance. I keep hearing from people who oppose the test that scores are not given until next year. But then we got the email from the superintendent, so I'm not sure.
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| Posted 4/7/15 10:08 PM |
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cj7305
=)
Member since 8/05 12296 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Thank you! Drafting them up now.
Awesome!
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| Posted 4/7/15 10:38 PM |
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Chatham-Chick
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Member since 5/05 10311 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
Posted by Kate
Posted by ChilisWife
Posted by Kate
I was seriously considering refusing the test. Then we received an email from the superintendent saying that the state tests will be one factor used in student placement. My DS got a perfect score on the practice math test and if it is going to be used to determine if he is in the G&T program, then I want him to take it.
Perhaps I am mistaken but it was my understanding that the test scores are not provided to schools until late Summer, AFTER placement has been decided.
If the child doesnt take the test, they cant consider it for placement and would need to rely on grades from during the school year. Which is fine by me. I would hate it if my kid had a bad day and didnt ace the test, and that was used against him for next year's placement regardless of his classroom performance!
Last year they chose kids for the G&T program based on one standardized test that my son did not do well on. So it was not based on classroom performance. I keep hearing from people who oppose the test that scores are not given until next year. But then we got the email from the superintendent, so I'm not sure.
Our school has other testing for placement called InView. Are you sure they didn't use something along those lines for assessment?
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| Posted 4/7/15 10:44 PM |
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Chatham-Chick
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Member since 5/05 10311 total posts
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
I thought these comments from ELA scorers were concerning:
scoring the ela exam
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| Posted 4/7/15 11:02 PM |
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CallaLily
Thank you, Saint Gerard!
Member since 10/07 4937 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
Posted by Kate
I was seriously considering refusing the test. Then we received an email from the superintendent saying that the state tests will be one factor used in student placement. My DS got a perfect score on the practice math test and if it is going to be used to determine if he is in the G&T program, then I want him to take it.
This is a scare tactic, plain and simple. As others have said, the scores do not come back in time to have an effect on placement. Shame on your superintendent.
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| Posted 4/7/15 11:41 PM |
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CallaLily
Thank you, Saint Gerard!
Member since 10/07 4937 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
Posted by MM2004
I have a question for the the teachers and I hope this does not come out a snarky. I'm just curious on how much control do teachers have o n their lesson planning and how they choose to met standards.
Is there a problem with the Common Core Standards or just the test? Are you "required" to prep the kids for the test? I mean, if you are told so many are going to fail anyway, what is the point of prepping them?
I am a parent of a 4th grader and I wish schools would start prepping these kids for life, not a test.
Again, I'm just looking to learn about how teachers choose how and what to teach.
Speaking as a veteran middle school teacher, there used to be much more academic freedom in the world of education. Simply put, there was a curriculum and standards and teachers had the freedom to design their own lessons to meet those standards and motivate their students how they saw fit. Now with the hasty roll out of the Common Core, and the linkage of test scores to the teacher and district, teachers are being pressured to use modules designed by NYSED and materials designed by companies like Pearson (who design the state tests, btw.) 20% of a teacher's evaluation was based on the students' growth on the state score. (Just a side so you see how silly these tests are, if a student received a 4 one year, which is the highest they can get, and the next year also received a 4, it would show "No Growth.) Now with Cuomo's new reform, 50% of the teacher's evaluation is tied to this one, lone, developmentally inappropriate test. You can go to engageny.com and look at some of the practice material released to prep students for the test. Besides noting all of the errors, you will see how students are being tested on material that is easily 2-3 years above their grade level. This really has nothing to do with the standards. This test is designed to make students fail and ultimately privatize education. And you can bet that any teacher who desires to keep his/her job will be prepping their students as much and as hard as they can. This is the sad reality of these tests.
Message edited 4/8/2015 12:01:25 AM.
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| Posted 4/7/15 11:59 PM |
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SHOPAHOLIC
LIF Adult
Member since 1/07 1712 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
Does anyone have a copy of a refusal/opt out letter to send to school?
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| Posted 4/8/15 10:46 AM |
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cj7305
=)
Member since 8/05 12296 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
Posted by SHOPAHOLIC
Does anyone have a copy of a refusal/opt out letter to send to school?
Yes, I posted above. Hope it helps!
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| Posted 4/8/15 12:05 PM |
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curley999
Family!
Member since 5/05 2314 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
I will be having my 5th grade DD take the tests. She took them last year and did very well. She is a very hard worker and takes school very seriously, so not taking them would cause her more stress then taking them. We are in NYC and the specialized high schools as well as some specialized middle schools look at these test scores for admission (the previous year). I also have a 2nd grade DD that tests well so I don't think I will opt her out when the time comes.
I see both sides and I do worry about the future of education. The negative that I have seen from the test is that the school has put all its extra time and resource into helping the struggling children perform better. This leaves no time and resources to further challenge the well performing students. So a school that used to be challenging and well rounded is now mediocre in my opinion.
However the problem at least in NYC, is that bad teachers remain and are protected by tenure. This is bad all around and requires change. The hope of many who support the test is that is will help bring about that change.
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| Posted 4/8/15 12:17 PM |
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busymomonli
Resident Insomniac
Member since 4/13 2050 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
I am refusing and just to give you some incentive to stand up, as a NYS teacher I am CENSURED from speaking out against the testing. Yes, CENSURED!!! Teachers in NYS cannot individually speak out against this or our licenses can (and WILL) be revoked.
It's not about how well my kids will do on the exams (both of my kids are in the G & T program in my district) it's about so many other factors. Our public schools are being privatized by for profit companies donating millions to our politicians who no longer answer to those who voted for them. We live in a tyrannical oligarchy. Cuomo's latest commercial sites "school choice for parents" that's code for charter schools. He will funnel your tax money to private charter schools that refuse to meet the needs of the diversified learner. Your public school district will fall into ruin and the value of your home will collapse.
The power rests with the PARENTS and the PUBLIC. It is illegal for teachers to strike. People need to flood school board meetings, attend the rallies, DEMAND media coverage.
At this point, the most powerful thing you can do is starve them of the data.
I know you live near me, I'm off this week. I'd be more than happy to drop off some fact based articles and talking points to you. If you have any questions please feel free to FM me. I am very passionate about this as a parent and as an educator.
Please read this post ^^
It is about so much more than whether your child tests well or not. It is even about way more than "teaching to the test".
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| Posted 4/8/15 2:26 PM |
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busymomonli
Resident Insomniac
Member since 4/13 2050 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
This is a brilliant, easy to understand video that explains it all.
Video
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| Posted 4/8/15 2:41 PM |
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Chatham-Chick
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Member since 5/05 10311 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
I'm amazed at how many people are uninformed about all of this. This isn't in regards to any one poster here, but in general, as many of my friends don't really seem all that interested or concerned.
My DH and I are already discussing moving and sending our children to private or catholic school with the way we see things headed. 
I keep hoping someone will point out the positives or something that I've been overlooking, but I haven't see it yet.
Message edited 4/8/2015 2:54:55 PM.
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| Posted 4/8/15 2:52 PM |
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lorich
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Member since 6/05 9987 total posts
Name:
Grammie says "Lora Gina"
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
Any opinions on the local assessments for K-2?
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| Posted 4/8/15 3:16 PM |
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cj7305
=)
Member since 8/05 12296 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
Posted by lorich
Any opinions on the local assessments for K-2?
My son is in 1st grade. He takes the NWEA's. I give them to my students as well in 2nd grade. I know first hand that many of the questions are not even in the curriculum. So they take it in the fall and get those questions wrong then they get some of those same types of questions in the spring. Since it is not information we even teach, they also get it wrong the second time. It's ridiculous! Not as bad as the state tests but still crazy . I'm kind of embarrassed to say I didn't even think to opt my son out of this test. Well...his teacher called a few weeks back and told me he bombed the nwea. Now I am a very honest mom and my son is typically a 3 and 4 student with excellent report cards. She told me he was as low as the 23rd percentile on this test. I was shocked. She was too. I have no clue why he did so poorly but this was case in point of how these tests are in no way a reflection of my son as a learner or his teacher's ability to teach. It's just maddening. Needless to say, next year we will be "refusing" this test as well.
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| Posted 4/8/15 3:54 PM |
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PatsBrat
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 2326 total posts
Name:
Ms. Brat
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
Posted by SHOPAHOLIC
Does anyone have a copy of a refusal/opt out letter to send to school?
This is my letter... I feel it's a little less hostile than some if the other letters out there but still gets the point across.
Dear Administrator,
We are writing today to formally inform the district of our decision to refuse to allow our child, (name), to participate in the ELA and math standardized assessments imposed on children across the state for the 2014-2015 school year.
We refuse to allow any data to be used for purposes other than each individual teacher’s own formative or cumulative assessment. We are opposed to assessments whose data is used to determine school ranking, teacher effectiveness, state or federal longitudinal studies or any other purpose other than for the individual classroom teacher’s own use to improve his or her instruction.
(Student) will be scored as a “refusal”, with a final score of “999” or a code that is equivalent on all State testing as described in the NYS Student Information Repository System (SIRS) Manual on page 63.
Our refusal does not in any way reflect on (student's) teachers, administration, or the school board. We believe in, support and trust his highly qualified and dedicated teachers and administrators and we believe in the high quality of teaching and learning that occurs in our child’s school. We hope our efforts will be understood in the context in which they are intended: to support the quality of instruction promoted by the school, and to advocate for what is best for all children. Our schools will not suffer when these tests are finally gone, they will flourish.
We apologize in advance for any inconvenience this may cause administration and staff and look forward to a great end of the school year.
Message edited 4/8/2015 4:15:15 PM.
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| Posted 4/8/15 4:14 PM |
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busymomonli
Resident Insomniac
Member since 4/13 2050 total posts
Name:
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Poll Are you refusing testing
I believe local assessments are fine, as they are a way for the teacher to grasp how your child is picking up the material. At least that what I heard, maybe someone can clarify?
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| Posted 4/8/15 4:17 PM |
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lorich
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Member since 6/05 9987 total posts
Name:
Grammie says "Lora Gina"
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
I didn't think I had to think about this until 3rd grade until I was informed by some in my district that the K-2 assessments were used for teacher & school evaluations.
Here's a sample letter one of the Mom's sent me:
September 2, 2014
Dear (Principal)
We are writing today to formally inform XXX Elementary School of our decision to refuse to allow our child, XXX XXX, to participate in any standardized assessments imposed on children across the state for the 2014-2015 school year. Our refusal should in no way reflect on the teachers, administration, or school board. This was not an easy decision for us, but we feel that we have no other choice. We simply see these tests as harmful, expensive, and a waste of time and valuable resources. Our child will not participate in any assessments other than those solely used for diagnostic purposes for the individual classroom teachers.
We refuse to allow any data to be used for purposes other than the individual teacher’s own formative or cumulative assessment. Any assessment whose data is used to determine school ranking, teacher effectiveness, state or federal longitudinal studies or any other purpose other than for the individual classroom teacher’s own use to improve his or her instruction may not be presented to our child.
Therefore, XXX XXX will not participate in the following:
* Any pre–assessments / standardized assessments connected to “Student Learning Objectives”, such as MAP/NWEA, AIMSweb, or STAR
* Any surveys, or “field tests” given by corporate or government entities or testing companies
* Any exam used to formulate an evaluation or score for XXX's teachers or school
* Any “practice” assessment for the sole purpose of preparing for the APPR assessment for teacher/school evaluation
We believe in and trust our highly qualified and dedicated teachers and administrators. We believe in the high quality of teaching and learning that occurs at XXX Elementary School. We hope our efforts will be understood within the context in which they are intended: to support the quality of instruction promoted by XXX, and to advocate for what is best for all children.
We anticipate that XXX XXX will be treated fairly during assessment periods, as this was not his
decision; but ours, as his parents. Please inform us as to the plan for XXX during the time when the assessments will take place. We do apologize in advance for the inconvenience to the administration, the faculty, and staff.
Sincerely,
XXX
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| Posted 4/8/15 4:33 PM |
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CallaLily
Thank you, Saint Gerard!
Member since 10/07 4937 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
Posted by curley999
I will be having my 5th grade DD take the tests. She took them last year and did very well. She is a very hard worker and takes school very seriously, so not taking them would cause her more stress then taking them. We are in NYC and the specialized high schools as well as some specialized middle schools look at these test scores for admission (the previous year). I also have a 2nd grade DD that tests well so I don't think I will opt her out when the time comes.
I see both sides and I do worry about the future of education. The negative that I have seen from the test is that the school has put all its extra time and resource into helping the struggling children perform better. This leaves no time and resources to further challenge the well performing students. So a school that used to be challenging and well rounded is now mediocre in my opinion.
However the problem at least in NYC, is that bad teachers remain and are protected by tenure. This is bad all around and requires change. The hope of many who support the test is that is will help bring about that change.
But the piece that you are missing is that there is no accountability for the student. People want to pin this all on "bad teachers" but no one talks about impoverished students with no parental support who are not held accountable for their behavior/effort at all. Teachers can only do so much. It is time for students to be held accountable as well. Bad teachers can absolutely be removed from the profession. Tenure only gives the teacher right to due process. There is a basic lack of understanding as to what tenure is and how it works. A lot of great teachers are going to lose their jobs due to these reforms.
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| Posted 4/8/15 5:09 PM |
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cj7305
=)
Member since 8/05 12296 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
Posted by curley999
However the problem at least in NYC, is that bad teachers remain and are protected by tenure. This is bad all around and requires change. The hope of many who support the test is that is will help bring about that change.
In my opinion there are way more problems than some "bad" teachers staying in the profession (poverty, lack of parental support, etc.). I do of course agree that there are some bad apples in teaching, just like there is in every profession. I also think there is a lot of misinformation about tenure. Teachers can absolutely lose their job if they are not working up to standards. I've seen it happen.
The fact also is that this test is just not an accurate measure of students or teachers. Just for example, I had an integrated classroom last year so half of my students were considered "special ed" and had IEP's. Well... they take the same test everyone else does (they can get modifications but that's only like separate location or extra time). And as would be expected, many of those children scored lower than the general students in the class. Their scores are all weighted the same, so my score was brought down. I know I did my job and am a good teacher. And I know those students made great progress FOR THEM throughout the year. Those scores would tell you otherwise. So in the end, we could be losing some incredible teachers and those "bad" teachers can continue to teach. I've said it before, I have NO problem being evaluated in a fair and ethical way, this reform however is neither of those things.
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| Posted 4/8/15 7:58 PM |
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CallaLily
Thank you, Saint Gerard!
Member since 10/07 4937 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
Posted by cj7305
Posted by curley999
However the problem at least in NYC, is that bad teachers remain and are protected by tenure. This is bad all around and requires change. The hope of many who support the test is that is will help bring about that change.
In my opinion there are way more problems than some "bad" teachers staying in the profession (poverty, lack of parental support, etc.). I do of course agree that there are some bad apples in teaching, just like there is in every profession. I also think there is a lot of misinformation about tenure. Teachers can absolutely lose their job if they are not working up to standards. I've seen it happen.
The fact also is that this test is just not an accurate measure of students or teachers. Just for example, I had an integrated classroom last year so half of my students were considered "special ed" and had IEP's. Well... they take the same test everyone else does (they can get modifications but that's only like separate location or extra time). And as would be expected, many of those children scored lower than the general students in the class. Their scores are all weighted the same, so my score was brought down. I know I did my job and am a good teacher. And I know those students made great progress FOR THEM throughout the year. Those scores would tell you otherwise. So in the end, we could be losing some incredible teachers and those "bad" teachers can continue to teach. I've said it before, I have NO problem being evaluated in a fair and ethical way, this reform however is neither of those things.
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| Posted 4/8/15 9:33 PM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: Poll Are you refusing testing
My DD isn't in a testing grade yet but once she is, we will be opting out.
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| Posted 4/9/15 9:04 AM |
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