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Shock Treatments

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Redhead
You Live, You Learn

Member since 5/05

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Name:
Jennifer

Shock Treatments

I am surious what others feel about this...
(Newsday Article)
New battle over shock
Regents may keep NY students from school using controversial treatment

BY JENNIFER SINCO KELLEHER AND JOHN HILDEBRAND
STAFF WRITERS

March 21, 2006


The state's highest education-policy board is considering a proposal to stop sending New York school children to out-of-state facilities that use electric shock to treat psychological disorders.

A staff report to the Board of Regents yesterday targets the Judge Rotenberg Center a week after a Freeport mother who opposes the therapy announced she would sue her local school district for sending her son to the Massachusetts school. Experts say no other school in the nation uses mild electric shock to modify students' behavior.

Of the 151 New York state students at Rotenberg - including those from New York City schools and more than 20 Long Island districts - 77 are now receiving the controversial "aversion therapy." The report expresses concern that the therapy is not only used on students who are most "cognitively impaired" or severely "self-destructive," but also for those who are "higher functioning," with emotional disabilities, attention-deficit disorders and problems such as truancy and aggression.

"To some degree, it brings back memories of 'One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest,'" said Roger Tilles, Long Island's representative on the Board of Regents, referring to the 1962 novel about abuses of shock therapy in a mental hospital.

Parents of students at Rotenberg said they will do anything to show the board that the treatment has saved their children's lives.

"I'd go to Albany if I have to," said Arthur Perazzo, of Howard Beach, father of a 20-year-old autistic man.

Agreed Marcia Shear of Roslyn Heights, mother of a 13-year-old autistic girl: "I'll fight it with every ounce in my body. If you don't know this type of child you have no right to make any kind of judgment on treatment."

Although its methods often ignite controversy, Rotenberg, which has about 200 children and about 50 adults, is licensed by the Massachusetts education and mental retardation departments. The aversion-therapy device - the Graduated Electronic Decelerator - is approved by the Food and Drug Administration as a neurological therapeutic device. Students wear it as a backpack, and electrodes are placed on their arms, torso and legs. A transmitter controlled by staff emits a shock that lasts no longer than two seconds.

While the American Psychiatric Association has no policy regarding the use of mild shock for behavior modification, individual experts say they are surprised at the methods in place at Rotenberg. Edward Carr, a Stony Brook University psychology professor who specializes in autism and mental retardation, called the therapy "primitive."

Another psychologist, Bryant Welch of Hilton Head, S.C., agreed. "This is not a procedure that is widely recognized in the mental health field," said Welch, who also is an attorney who advocates on behalf of the mentally ill. "If we're just talking about a form of behavioral control that just turns life into trauma for these kids, then I think it raises profound ethical questions."

The pending lawsuit, filed by Evelyn Nicholson of Freeport, claims that the school's aversion therapy amounts to corporal punishment, which is illegal in New York State. Freeport and other districts declined to comment.

Matthew Israel, founder and director of Rotenberg, said the school uses the therapy only in the most severe cases, as with a girl who scratched out her retinas. In the case of Nicholson's son, Antwone, 17, Rotenberg used the therapy because the teenager cursed, threw things and attacked staff.

Israel emphasized that the school turns to aversion therapy only after it has exhausted other options such as rewards for positive behaviors.

He said he was "very concerned" about the proposal before the Regents: "I wasn't expecting this."

Experts said Rotenberg's form of aversion therapy has not been validated by published scientific papers that have been peer-reviewed, which is the widely accepted standard in the research community. Rotenberg's director of quality control, Ralph Antonelli, noted that scientists have published papers about similar treatments, including electric shock delivered through helmets worn by children who are prone to banging their heads.

The Rotenberg Center in Canton, Mass., about 20 miles south of Boston, is not the only school dealing with behavioral disorders, but it is alone in its use of electric shock. Harry W. Parad, executive director of Boston-based Wediko Children's Services, said his program is anchored in staff-led discussions that occur not only when children act out, but when they behave well.

"If you just change the behavior in the moment and you don't change how the child understands the behavior, then the likelihood the child will hold on to that change is not high," Parad said.

The GED device was developed and patented by Israel, who earned a doctorate in psychology from Harvard University. Israel doesn't market the device outside Rotenberg, he said, because he wants to ensure it's used properly.

"Because this treatment is so controversial, we've had a number of problems with our licensing agencies over the years," Israel said.

In 1985, the Massachusetts agency then known as the Office of Children tried to close the school because officials objected to the therapy. Rotenberg agreed to get court approval before students underwent the treatment. In 1993, the Department of Mental Retardation also tried to close Rotenberg because its commissioner opposed the therapy, but a court sided with the school.

Highs, lows of aversion therapy

Shock not the only form of habit-changing treatment

Aversion therapy techniques have a long history in the fields of psychiatry and psychology:

Unpleasant-tasting chemicals have been placed on fingernails to discourage nail-biting.

Substances, such as emetine, have been given to alcoholics to induce vomiting when alcohol is consumed.

Mild shock has been used to treat those trying to beat drug or nicotine addictions.

Aversion therapy was once associated with attempts to eliminate homosexuality. Therapy involved vomit- and paralysis-inducing substances and mild electric shock. In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association removed homosexuality from its list of medical disorders.

Posted 3/21/06 3:10 PM
 
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MrsS2005
Mom of 3

Member since 11/05

13118 total posts

Name:
B

Re: Shock Treatments

I think it's cruel and the parents have every right to oppose it. Do you think it would be ok (or more acceptable) if the parents consented to shock therapy?

Posted 3/21/06 3:16 PM
 

leighla
Support Cancer Research

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Lauren

Re: Shock Treatments

I'm confused. It seems like some parents are aware and some aren't.

I am opposed to it if parents aren't consented.

But if the parents are on board and the kids are on board and it's helping them I don't see why it's a problem.

Posted 3/21/06 3:18 PM
 

Redhead
You Live, You Learn

Member since 5/05

31871 total posts

Name:
Jennifer

Re: Shock Treatments

Posted by MrsS2005

I think it's cruel and the parents have every right to oppose it. Do you think it would be ok (or more acceptable) if the parents consented to shock therapy?


i don't really think of this as shock therapy...as in ECT

and i think that this kind of thing is abuse and terribly out dated

Sick what people will think helps their child

Posted 3/21/06 3:25 PM
 

Redhead
You Live, You Learn

Member since 5/05

31871 total posts

Name:
Jennifer

Re: Shock Treatments

Posted by leighla

I'm confused. It seems like some parents are aware and some aren't.

I am opposed to it if parents aren't consented.

But if the parents are on board and the kids are on board and it's helping them I don't see why it's a problem.



because things like this get ABUSED very easily
and relatively doesn't teach them anything other than pain or discomfort

Posted 3/21/06 3:26 PM
 

dpli
Daylight savings :)

Member since 5/05

13973 total posts

Name:
D

Re: Shock Treatments

I have a problem with it because it concerns children. I saw this on the news and I have been thinking about it a lot. I understand that parents have a hard time with children like this, but I wonder if children in this condition are capable of consenting to the treatment. Some parents are going to consent to whatever makes the child easier to control, and I know that their lives are incredibly difficult, caring for a child like this.

However, I read an autobiographical story recently of an adult woman, who was a therapist who had undergone shock treatment for her depression when nothing else was working. She claimed it helped her a great deal and she is much better after having the shock treatment.

Sometimes these articles raise more questions for me than give answers.Chat Icon

Posted 3/21/06 3:32 PM
 

MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.

Member since 5/05

26170 total posts

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MrsERod™®

Re: Shock Treatments

don't agree with it at all. and this statement pretty much sums it up for me:

"If you just change the behavior in the moment and you don't change how the child understands the behavior, then the likelihood the child will hold on to that change is not high,"


with all the medical advances this country has made, we still have to resort to such a primitive form of treatment?? Chat Icon

don't like it!

Posted 3/21/06 3:34 PM
 

Redhead
You Live, You Learn

Member since 5/05

31871 total posts

Name:
Jennifer

Re: Shock Treatments

Posted by dpli

I have a problem with it because it concerns children. I saw this on the news and I have been thinking about it a lot. I understand that parents have a hard time with children like this, but I wonder if children in this condition are capable of consenting to the treatment. Some parents are going to consent to whatever makes the child easier to control, and I know that their lives are incredibly difficult, caring for a child like this.

However, I read an autobiographical story recently of an adult woman, who was a therapist who had undergone shock treatment for her depression when nothing else was working. She claimed it helped her a great deal and she is much better after having the shock treatment.

Sometimes these articles raise more questions for me than give answers.Chat Icon



these are two entirely different things
ECT, shock treatments are used for Depression and are in fact proven to be useful

the shock that they above article describes is completely differnt...
it is aversion techniques...
so if someone was to go to hit themselve they would send a quick shock to the body that hurt them to stop the behavior...Like a police tazer...

these are very differet things

Posted 3/21/06 3:35 PM
 

nov04libride
big brother <3

Member since 5/05

14672 total posts

Name:
Me

Re: Shock Treatments

I agree with it so long as there is parental consent. I think therapy can only go so far in some cases...You can counsel someone to try to change their behavior, but at the root they must understand their behavior is wrong. As a last resort, this affects the physiological system when the psychological system is unable or unwilling to change.

I think if this was offered as a method of weight control plenty of people would line up because they are unable to stop themselves and need this physiological intervention.

Posted 3/21/06 3:40 PM
 

dpli
Daylight savings :)

Member since 5/05

13973 total posts

Name:
D

Re: Shock Treatments

Posted by Redhead
these are two entirely different things
ECT, shock treatments are used for Depression and are in fact proven to be useful

the shock that they above article describes is completely differnt...
it is aversion techniques...
so if someone was to go to hit themselve they would send a quick shock to the body that hurt them to stop the behavior...Like a police tazer...

these are very differet things



I guess I was thinking about the whole idea of using any type of shock to the body and grouping them together.

I do think there is room for a lot of abuse in what they are describing in the article. I think these parents are so desperate for something to work that they consent to it, thinking that they have no other choice.

ETA: I just looked at the article again - it doesn't say whether these students have a choice in whether or not they go to this school, or are assigned to it, and if they are assigned there, are the parents asked for consent to this technique in advance? Or did I miss that?

Message edited 3/21/2006 3:44:40 PM.

Posted 3/21/06 3:41 PM
 

Redhead
You Live, You Learn

Member since 5/05

31871 total posts

Name:
Jennifer

Re: Shock Treatments

Posted by nov04libride

I agree with it so long as there is parental consent. I think therapy can only go so far in some cases...You can counsel someone to try to change their behavior, but at the root they must understand their behavior is wrong. As a last resort, this affects the physiological system when the psychological system is unable or unwilling to change.

I think if this was offered as a method of weight control plenty of people would line up because they are unable to stop themselves and need this physiological intervention.


honestly that just isn't true

you don't have to truly understand behavior to change it...

ETA...they have used stuff like this for behavior control...usually is ineffective

Message edited 3/21/2006 3:44:30 PM.

Posted 3/21/06 3:43 PM
 

nov04libride
big brother <3

Member since 5/05

14672 total posts

Name:
Me

Re: Shock Treatments

Posted by Redhead

Posted by nov04libride

I agree with it so long as there is parental consent. I think therapy can only go so far in some cases...You can counsel someone to try to change their behavior, but at the root they must understand their behavior is wrong. As a last resort, this affects the physiological system when the psychological system is unable or unwilling to change.

I think if this was offered as a method of weight control plenty of people would line up because they are unable to stop themselves and need this physiological intervention.


honestly that just isn't true

you don't have to truly understand behavior to change it...

ETA...they have used stuff like this for behavior control...usually is ineffective



Understand that it is wrong, and want to change it. Someone can say don't hit that person, but unless the person realizes it was wrong and wants to change the punishment or words from an authoritative figure will have little long-term effect.

I don't think I would ever use this on a child of mine, but I'm not in this situation. I would hope parents have exhausted all other options.

Message edited 3/21/2006 3:51:06 PM.

Posted 3/21/06 3:50 PM
 

Redhead
You Live, You Learn

Member since 5/05

31871 total posts

Name:
Jennifer

Re: Shock Treatments

Posted by nov04libride

Understand that it is wrong, and want to change it. Someone can say don't hit that person, but unless the person realizes it was wrong and wants to change the punishment or words from an authoritative figure will have little long-term effect.

I don't think I would ever use this on a child of mine, but I'm not in this situation. I would hope parents have exhausted all other options.



what i am saying is wrong is that the method of it and it being linked to the only way to teach someone of profoundly/severely retarded, autistic of of any mental illness is actually WRONG.

Hurting someone to get them to stop isn't really doing anything...and it never lasts.

You can in fact look at a persons behavior, try to figure out why the person is doing what they are doing and create method of ALL TYPES of people to stop the behavior.

This kind of thing is considered abuse in NY. And i think it is sad that it still goes on...

THANKFULLY these places are slowly being shut down...

And it is sad that these parents THINK that by shocking their child is the way to go...

It is an illusion of change

Posted 3/21/06 3:56 PM
 

LadyMaravilla
Fall Is Here

Member since 5/05

12023 total posts

Name:
Sonia

Re: Shock Treatments

I would have to agree w/ 04 bride that if a parent gives the consent to use it then so be it. I think it's a tough call when we are not in these parents shoes, if I had a daughter w/ mental disabilities and felt I was at my wit's end then maybe I would opt for this type of therapy. I don't know, I really think I would have to be in the situation to know what I would do. Chat Icon

Posted 3/21/06 3:56 PM
 

nov04libride
big brother <3

Member since 5/05

14672 total posts

Name:
Me

Re: Shock Treatments

Posted by Redhead

Posted by nov04libride

Understand that it is wrong, and want to change it. Someone can say don't hit that person, but unless the person realizes it was wrong and wants to change the punishment or words from an authoritative figure will have little long-term effect.

I don't think I would ever use this on a child of mine, but I'm not in this situation. I would hope parents have exhausted all other options.



what i am saying is wrong is that the method of it and it being linked to the only way to teach someone of profoundly/severely retarded, autistic of of any mental illness is actually WRONG.

Hurting someone to get them to stop isn't really doing anything...and it never lasts.

You can in fact look at a persons behavior, try to figure out why the person is doing what they are doing and create method of ALL TYPES of people to stop the behavior.

This kind of thing is considered abuse in NY. And i think it is sad that it still goes on...

THANKFULLY these places are slowly being shut down...

And it is sad that these parents THINK that by shocking their child is the way to go...

It is an illusion of change



I'll admit that I finally stopped sucking my thumb at 8 when my father kept putting the disgusting tasting stuff on it every day. Soon the desire just wasn't there anymore, and he stopped with the gross tasting stuff.

Posted 3/21/06 3:59 PM
 

Redhead
You Live, You Learn

Member since 5/05

31871 total posts

Name:
Jennifer

Re: Shock Treatments

true...but at age 8 you were able to understand more than the average severely retarded and autistic kid/adult will ever...

and what happens, since the majority of people like this are IN PAIN?
are hitting their head, hitting others because that is the only way for them to get peoples attention...

what do you do then?

Again..things like bad tasting liguids for humans are a thing of the past now...

which is why in most states it is ILLEGAL

Message edited 3/21/2006 4:02:46 PM.

Posted 3/21/06 4:02 PM
 

leighla
Support Cancer Research

Member since 5/05

16353 total posts

Name:
Lauren

Re: Shock Treatments

So then do you believe in the Placebo Effect?

If it's helping, it's helping. Even if it is an illusion of helping.


I'm not saying this should be the first choice, but it sounds like they've exhausted other options so this is their last resort.

Posted 3/21/06 4:02 PM
 

Redhead
You Live, You Learn

Member since 5/05

31871 total posts

Name:
Jennifer

Re: Shock Treatments

Posted by leighla

So then do you believe in the Placebo Effect?

If it's helping, it's helping. Even if it is an illusion of helping.


I'm not saying this should be the first choice, but it sounds like they've exhausted other options so this is their last resort.



i don't believe it is helping at all...

and since for the most part this isn't done in all of NY state...there are other options out there

Posted 3/21/06 4:05 PM
 

leighla
Support Cancer Research

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Name:
Lauren

Re: Shock Treatments

Posted by Redhead

Posted by leighla

So then do you believe in the Placebo Effect?

If it's helping, it's helping. Even if it is an illusion of helping.


I'm not saying this should be the first choice, but it sounds like they've exhausted other options so this is their last resort.



i don't believe it is helping at all...

and since for the most part this isn't done in all of NY state...there are other options out there



I understand your point that it can be dangerous.

But if the parents are saying it's helping and the patients are saying it's helping than how can you say it's not helping?


Posted 3/21/06 4:08 PM
 

Shanti
True love

Member since 6/05

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Re: Shock Treatments

Scary!

Posted 3/21/06 4:10 PM
 

Redhead
You Live, You Learn

Member since 5/05

31871 total posts

Name:
Jennifer

Re: Shock Treatments

Posted by leighla

I understand your point that it can be dangerous.

But if the parents are saying it's helping and the patients are saying it's helping than how can you say it's not helping?




IMO it is abuse... plain and simple...

they think it helps because they see the temporary effects...
and the idea of my child or an adult living life always havving to be "shocked" or "sprayed"

is sad...

In the end....EVERYONE can learn at some level...
and that is what changes behavior ultimately

Posted 3/21/06 4:11 PM
 

LadyMaravilla
Fall Is Here

Member since 5/05

12023 total posts

Name:
Sonia

Re: Shock Treatments

are there any postive articles about this form of treatment?

Posted 3/21/06 4:12 PM
 

Redhead
You Live, You Learn

Member since 5/05

31871 total posts

Name:
Jennifer

Re: Shock Treatments

and to be honest....
like i said above...
ALL behavior has a function, a reason.

WHAT if that reason was to express pain? Or to communicate?

and now we are shocking these kids or adults when they are trying to communicate with us?

Posted 3/21/06 4:13 PM
 

Redhead
You Live, You Learn

Member since 5/05

31871 total posts

Name:
Jennifer

Re: Shock Treatments

Posted by LadyLainez

are there any postive articles about this form of treatment?


sure there are

the majority of psychiatric facilities used to do this kind of thing

It now ILLEGAL in all forms and considered abuse. In NYS you can go to jail if you do it

Posted 3/21/06 4:14 PM
 

LadyMaravilla
Fall Is Here

Member since 5/05

12023 total posts

Name:
Sonia

Re: Shock Treatments

Posted by Redhead

and to be honest....
like i said above...
ALL behavior has a function, a reason.

WHAT if that reason was to express pain? Or to communicate?

and now we are shocking these kids or adults when they are trying to communicate with us?



I don't know. I feel the article is geared towards the negative end, but there are always two sides to things and though I don't think it's humane, if I was in this situation maybe I would have to consider this form of treatment.

Posted 3/21/06 4:15 PM
 
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