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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
I think the Pope actually spoke a lot about the child abuse cases when he was here... what more are the Pope and Cardinal Egan supposed to do besides watch and make sure it doesn't happen again?
And yes, the views aren't for everyone... that is why not everyone is Catholic.
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Posted 4/30/08 12:39 PM  |
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Erica
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 11767 total posts
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Jennie0898
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Jennie0898
Posted by Erica
I didn't know that you couldn't be Catholic for having an opinion.
I'm not following this statement.
Are you specifically addressing someone's comment?
I took this to mean having an opinion about abortion potentially renders you un-catholic.
Ahhhh...I see.
Thanks for clarifying.
yes thank you, that's what I meant  It was directed towards the Cardinal.
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| Posted 4/30/08 12:40 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Sassyz75
I think the Pope actually spoke a lot about the child abuse cases when he was here... what more are the Pope and Cardinal Egan supposed to do besides watch and make sure it doesn't happen again?
And yes, the views aren't for everyone... that is why not everyone is Catholic.
I'm catholic. I won't get divorced, I won't get an abortion.
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| Posted 4/30/08 12:41 PM |
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MegZee
My bunny
Member since 5/06 8777 total posts
Name:
Meaghan
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Beaver2be
Posted by Meaghan729
and the catholic church wonders why they are loosing parishoners.
My thoughts exactly...the more and more I hear ridiculous statements like Cardinal Egan's - the more I think that I will be converting to another religion once I have children...
He needs to be worrying about his priests molesting children than Rudy's abortion stance...JMHO
DH and I (catholics) talk about this all the time. My uncle is a priest (he is 80 year old!) and says the church needs to get with the times!
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| Posted 4/30/08 12:42 PM |
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imas98
Love my Furbaby
Member since 10/07 1140 total posts
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Meaghan729
and the catholic church wonders why they are loosing parishoners.
ITA !
It amazes me that the catholic church is so close minded in this day & age. 
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| Posted 4/30/08 12:49 PM |
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MST9106
My life:)
Member since 6/06 9589 total posts
Name:
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Meaghan729
Posted by Beaver2be
Posted by Meaghan729
and the catholic church wonders why they are loosing parishoners.
My thoughts exactly...the more and more I hear ridiculous statements like Cardinal Egan's - the more I think that I will be converting to another religion once I have children...
He needs to be worrying about his priests molesting children than Rudy's abortion stance...JMHO
DH and I (catholics) talk about this all the time. My uncle is a priest (he is 80 year old!) and says the church needs to get with the times!
Totally agree with the above. Its about time they get with the fact that it is 2008! That's why there are so many Catholics that feel a certain and just keep their opinions to themselves...and they say one thing and do another. Its just a big mess that I wouldn't even get into to, but I think as long as you have faith and follow the bible, thats all that matters.
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| Posted 4/30/08 12:53 PM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name:
BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Sassyz75
I think the Pope actually spoke a lot about the child abuse cases when he was here... what more are the Pope and Cardinal Egan supposed to do besides watch and make sure it doesn't happen again?
And yes, the views aren't for everyone... that is why not everyone is Catholic.
At this point I feel like, it's one thing to talk about it but I guess until I see some action (which I suppose is a double edged sword b/c I wouldn't want another child to be abused) I have a hard time believing they will do anything about this issue.
The abuse by priests has gone on for so long with the catholic church doing nothing about it but turn their cheek and shuffle these priests around to different parishes that I just have my doubts.
I hope if (God forbid) another priest is found to be an abuser that they do something but until that day comes, I will find it hard to believe what they say. Including the pope.
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| Posted 4/30/08 12:54 PM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name:
BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by imas98
It amazes me that the catholic church is so close minded in this day & age.
I'm not sure how I feel about this...
Like all religions, the catholic church is built on traditions. Traditions that have been handed down for genarations... To have them now change to fit our needs, well, I just don't know that I agree with that.
Ironically, I'm not even a practicing catholic. But I think that's why I'm not.
I don't agree with all of the catholic church's beliefs but I don't think I could or would ask them to change theirs to fit mine.
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| Posted 4/30/08 12:56 PM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Jennie0898
Posted by Sassyz75
I think the Pope actually spoke a lot about the child abuse cases when he was here... what more are the Pope and Cardinal Egan supposed to do besides watch and make sure it doesn't happen again?
And yes, the views aren't for everyone... that is why not everyone is Catholic.
At this point I feel like, it's one thing to talk about it but I guess until I see some action (which I suppose is a double edged sword b/c I wouldn't want another child to be abused) I have a hard time believing they will do anything about this issue.
The abuse by priests has gone on for so long with the catholic church doing nothing about it but turn their cheek and shuffle these priests around to different parishes that I just have my doubts.
I hope if (God forbid) another priest is found to be an abuser that they do something but until that day comes, I will find it hard to believe what they say. Including the pope.
I think if no one comes forward as being abused in the future- then they are doing their job..
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| Posted 4/30/08 1:04 PM |
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GioiaMia
Let's Go Rangers!
Member since 1/07 14818 total posts
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Wow, this whole time I assumed he wasn't allowed to receive because of his divorce and remarriage.
While I do not agree with the Cardinal I think that it has more to do with this:
Egan posted a statement on the Archdiocese of New York's Web site stating that he and Giuliani had a "private agreement" that Giuliani would not receive Holy Communion
So at some point it seems that Giuliani sought out guidance in the matter and came to an agreement with the Cardinal and then turned around and betrayed that agreement. I think that because Giuliani IS a public political figure AND a Catholic the Cardinal was trying to "use" him in a sense and prove a point about abortion and Catholicism.
ETF: horrible grammar
Message edited 4/30/2008 1:14:15 PM.
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| Posted 4/30/08 1:12 PM |
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GioiaMia
Let's Go Rangers!
Member since 1/07 14818 total posts
Name:
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Jennie0898
Posted by imas98
It amazes me that the catholic church is so close minded in this day & age.
I'm not sure how I feel about this...
Like all religions, the catholic church is built on traditions. Traditions that have been handed down for genarations... To have them now change to fit our needs, well, I just don't know that I agree with that.
Ironically, I'm not even a practicing catholic. But I think that's why I'm not.
I don't agree with all of the catholic church's beliefs but I don't think I could or would ask them to change theirs to fit mine.
I think that was perfectly stated!
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| Posted 4/30/08 1:13 PM |
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itkocak
Member since 7/07 7639 total posts
Name:
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Message edited 11/18/2011 5:12:55 PM.
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| Posted 4/30/08 1:16 PM |
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ILJ619
LIF Adult
Member since 6/06 1985 total posts
Name:
Irene
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Yes at the end of the day when you are looking to judge something you have to look at God's word aka the bible. However in the bible there is no mention of who can and cannot take communion that verse above discusses repetance in the heart and only God can judge that.
ETS it has always bothered me that my parents have been married 40+ years and my mother could not take communion because they never married through the church.
Message edited 4/30/2008 1:23:26 PM.
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| Posted 4/30/08 1:17 PM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by ilt1221
As someone said at the end of the day when you are looking to judge something you have to look at God's word aka the bible. There is no mention of who can and cannot take communion all it discusses is repetance in the heart and only God can judge that.
Catholics go by the Catechism of the Catholic Church because it is the "rules" as handed down by Peter and his successors whom Jesus told to build his Church.
Your reasoning, however, has a lot to do with other branches of Christianity.
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| Posted 4/30/08 1:22 PM |
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ILJ619
LIF Adult
Member since 6/06 1985 total posts
Name:
Irene
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Sassyz75
Posted by ilt1221
As someone said at the end of the day when you are looking to judge something you have to look at God's word aka the bible. There is no mention of who can and cannot take communion all it discusses is repetance in the heart and only God can judge that.
Catholics go by the Catechism of the Catholic Church because it is the "rules" as handed down by Peter and his successors whom Jesus told to build his Church.
Your reasoning, however, has a lot to do with other branches of Christianity.
Yes my reasoning is no longer based on Catholicism its based on biblical principles 
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| Posted 4/30/08 1:30 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
To bring up something from my earlier post, how would you feel if he were the leader of a country and did not commit genocide, but allowed people to commit genocide without being punished?
Would you feel the same way about him being allowed to have communion?
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| Posted 4/30/08 1:52 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by JenniferEver
To bring up something from my earlier post, how would you feel if he were the leader of a country and did not commit genocide, but allowed people to commit genocide without being punished?
Would you feel the same way about him being allowed to have communion?
I think there is a HUGE difference, both physically and philosophically between abortion and Genocide.
the personal nature of an abortion (as in reality, it is an extremely personal thing) vs the public nature of a genocide (people killing other people indiscriminantly) make them incomparable IMO.
and then there's that whole sticky viability issues. but we won't get into that.
Message edited 4/30/2008 2:04:31 PM.
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| Posted 4/30/08 2:02 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by JenniferEver
To bring up something from my earlier post, how would you feel if he were the leader of a country and did not commit genocide, but allowed people to commit genocide without being punished?
Would you feel the same way about him being allowed to have communion?
I think there is a HUGE difference, but physically and philosophicall between abortion and Genocide.
the personal nature of an abortion (as in reality, it is an extremely personal thing) vs the public nature of a genocide (people killing other people indiscriminantly) make them incomparable IMO.
and then there's that whole sticky viability issues. but we won't get into that.
Of course, but in the view of the Catholic Church, they are both mass murder. So thinking of it that way it makes sense.
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| Posted 4/30/08 2:04 PM |
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bicosi
life is a carousel
Member since 7/07 14956 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by JenniferEver
To bring up something from my earlier post, how would you feel if he were the leader of a country and did not commit genocide, but allowed people to commit genocide without being punished?
Would you feel the same way about him being allowed to have communion?
Genocide? whoa. Def not the right word to use. Genocide could never, ever be used in comparison to abortion.
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| Posted 4/30/08 2:07 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by JenniferEver
Of course, but in the view of the Catholic Church, they are both mass murder. So thinking of it that way it makes sense.
they can say that all they want, but if it doesn't make sense in the real world, it doesn't make sense.
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| Posted 4/30/08 2:07 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by bicosi
Posted by JenniferEver
To bring up something from my earlier post, how would you feel if he were the leader of a country and did not commit genocide, but allowed people to commit genocide without being punished?
Would you feel the same way about him being allowed to have communion?
Genocide? whoa. Def not the right word to use. Genocide could never, ever be used in comparison to abortion.
it is used as a comparison ALL THE TIME.
You should see what a lot of the Catholic Pro Life organizations put out.
Even without arguably hyperbolic comparisons, many Catholics do believe it's mass murder. If you have a public stance that permits mass murder, even if you don't personally commit it, I think that's grounds for excommunication.
Many Catholics do see abortion as mass murder as millions of unborn are killed every year.
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| Posted 4/30/08 2:10 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by JenniferEver
Of course, but in the view of the Catholic Church, they are both mass murder. So thinking of it that way it makes sense.
they can say that all they want, but if it doesn't make sense in the real world, it doesn't make sense.
Well, ex-communication is not something that has any meaning outside of the Catholic Church, in the "real world"
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| Posted 4/30/08 2:10 PM |
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Sassyz75
Turning a new page
Member since 5/05 9731 total posts
Name:
Dina
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by JenniferEver
Of course, but in the view of the Catholic Church, they are both mass murder. So thinking of it that way it makes sense.
they can say that all they want, but if it doesn't make sense in the real world, it doesn't make sense.
I think it makes sense- if you are looking at it from the basis of the Catholic Church's definition of when life begins- then it is easy to see why their stance is their stance...
I am not saying whether or not I think it is right or wrong- just speaking here from analysis of Church doctrine.
edited to say- as a mother- i have become more conservative on these matters than liberal as I was before I had my daughter.
Message edited 4/30/2008 2:12:31 PM.
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| Posted 4/30/08 2:11 PM |
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mka06
LIF Adult
Member since 8/06 1079 total posts
Name:
Melis
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Jennie0898
Posted by imas98
It amazes me that the catholic church is so close minded in this day & age.
I'm not sure how I feel about this...
Like all religions, the catholic church is built on traditions. Traditions that have been handed down for genarations... To have them now change to fit our needs, well, I just don't know that I agree with that.
.... I don't think I could or would ask them to change theirs to fit mine.
I agree with this. I understand that people may take issue with some of the church's beliefs. however, expecting a religion to change doesn't seem totally reasonable to me. if someone doesn't agree they have the choice whether to participate or not.
IMO, religion is based on something greater and bigger than the here and now. changing that FOR the here and now starts to sound like political policy vs. religion
in terms of the whole abortion discussion -- i agree with the person who posted about abortion being akin to genocide in the catholic religion. we may not all agree that it IS genocide (and i certainly know that could be debated), but in the catholic religion it IS seen as that. so, when looking at any actions the church takes in the issue it has to be viewed/judged w/ that context, regardless of whether any given person AGREES with that context. JMO
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| Posted 4/30/08 2:15 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Sassyz75
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by JenniferEver
Of course, but in the view of the Catholic Church, they are both mass murder. So thinking of it that way it makes sense.
they can say that all they want, but if it doesn't make sense in the real world, it doesn't make sense.
I think it makes sense- if you are looking at it from the basis of the Catholic Church's definition of when life begins- then it is easy to see why their stance is their stance...
I am not saying whether or not I think it is right or wrong- just speaking here from analysis of Church doctrine.
edited to say- as a mother- i have become more conservative on these matters than liberal as I was before I had my daughter.
the church's doctrine is made up to support it's beliefs.
I'm sorry, but if an organism cannot sustain itself, it is not technically "alive". Like parasites, if it's detached from the host, it dies. it doesn't have a sustainable life outside the host body.
until the moment that an organism can sustain life on it's own, they cannot call it murder, it doesn't fit the legal description of murder.
so they can use these comparisons as propaganda in their crusade against abortion...but it doesn't make it true.
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| Posted 4/30/08 2:15 PM |
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