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Nicole728
My Happy Girl
Member since 7/06 8198 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by JenniferEver
Inevitably discussions about anything going on in the church lead to people airing their separate, unrelated grievances with the church.
seperate or not, these are the many reasons why so many catholics are fed up with the Church.
I was stating an opinion, which I'm welcome to do, thats it.
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Posted 4/30/08 3:07 PM  |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
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BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Nicole728
Posted by JenniferEver
Inevitably discussions about anything going on in the church lead to people airing their separate, unrelated grievances with the church.
seperate or not, these are the many reasons why so many catholics are fed up with the Church.
I was stating an opinion, which I'm welcome to do, thats it.
I don't think Jennifer was referring to your post. I think she was addressing someone who was talking about what the OP was really asking.
As this thread went on, it sort of veered off from what the OP was originally asking.
I don't think it was a dig at you.
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| Posted 4/30/08 3:09 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Jennie0898
Posted by Nicole728
Posted by JenniferEver
Inevitably discussions about anything going on in the church lead to people airing their separate, unrelated grievances with the church.
seperate or not, these are the many reasons why so many catholics are fed up with the Church.
I was stating an opinion, which I'm welcome to do, thats it.
I don't think Jennifer was referring to your post. I think she was addressing someone who was talking about what the OP was really asking.
As this thread went on, it sort of veered off from what the OP was originally asking.
I don't think it was a dig at you.
It wasn't really a dig at anyone, just an observation.
It's difficult to talk about the topic at hand because it's often conflated with the many strong emotions many people feel toward the church, either a great passion and loyalty, or distaste and antipathy.
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| Posted 4/30/08 3:10 PM |
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Nicole728
My Happy Girl
Member since 7/06 8198 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Jennie0898
Posted by Nicole728
Posted by JenniferEver
Inevitably discussions about anything going on in the church lead to people airing their separate, unrelated grievances with the church.
seperate or not, these are the many reasons why so many catholics are fed up with the Church.
I was stating an opinion, which I'm welcome to do, thats it.
I don't think Jennifer was referring to your post. I think she was addressing someone who was talking about what the OP was really asking.
As this thread went on, it sort of veered off from what the OP was originally asking.
I don't think it was a dig at you.
I don't think so either...I'm just pregnant and cranky, and for some reason this post got me all heated
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| Posted 4/30/08 3:11 PM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Nicole728
I don't think so either...I'm just pregnant and cranky, and for some reason this post got me all heated
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| Posted 4/30/08 3:12 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Jennie0898
As this thread went on, it sort of veered off from what the OP was originally asking.
.
you don't say
Posted by cpanyc
For politicians, that would mean doing everything you can to protect the sanctity of human life. So I can totally see why Cardinal Egan has a problem with Guilani taking communion.
since we live in a country of different relgions, our constitution dictates that we keep politics and religion separate so Guiliani would be going against the constitution backing up the church's doctrine to protect "the sanctity of human life".
getting back to my original thoughts....does anyone think on a personal level, that standing by while someone else commits a sin is graver than you personally committing the sin?
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| Posted 4/30/08 3:13 PM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name:
BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Nicole728
Posted by Jennie0898
Posted by Nicole728
Posted by JenniferEver
Inevitably discussions about anything going on in the church lead to people airing their separate, unrelated grievances with the church.
seperate or not, these are the many reasons why so many catholics are fed up with the Church.
I was stating an opinion, which I'm welcome to do, thats it.
I don't think Jennifer was referring to your post. I think she was addressing someone who was talking about what the OP was really asking.
As this thread went on, it sort of veered off from what the OP was originally asking.
I don't think it was a dig at you.
I don't think so either...I'm just pregnant and cranky, and for some reason this post got me all heated
Awwww... those damn hormones!!!
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| Posted 4/30/08 3:21 PM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name:
BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by Jennie0898
As this thread went on, it sort of veered off from what the OP was originally asking.
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you don't say
I know it's hard to believe!!!
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| Posted 4/30/08 3:23 PM |
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mtnmama
Member since 5/06 4794 total posts
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Message edited 12/7/2009 10:05:20 AM.
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| Posted 4/30/08 3:32 PM |
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GioiaMia
Let's Go Rangers!
Member since 1/07 14818 total posts
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Ophelia
getting back to my original thoughts....does anyone think on a personal level, that standing by while someone else commits a sin is graver than you personally committing the sin?
Okay now this I can answer. No, I don't think so.
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| Posted 4/30/08 3:35 PM |
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donegal419
St. Gerard, pray for us.
Member since 7/07 7650 total posts
Name:
K
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
the reason why Egan is upset is because Guiliani LIED to him. He told him that he would not receive Communion and he did. this is a basic issue of honesty and standing by what you said.
Also, although clearly guiliani has never had an abortion, nor committed that sin, as a politician he supports it. Practicing Catholics are supposed to support the views of the Church meaning ALL Catholics are supposed to be anti-abortion and even more so as a politician. By standing idly by as Catholics that support abortion, we are in essence sinning to some degree. it's a basic case for standing up for what is right. although Guiliani may not believe abortion is wrong, the Church does and he needs to support that and one way would be by nto receiving.
In terms of Church teaching, the Conference of U.S. Catholic Bishops have left it up to individual dioceses to decide whether or not to adminster communion to those politicans that support political issues that are anti-Catholic. In this case, Cardinal Egan has decided that he rather not have the politican receive. it's a tough issue because who knows Guiliani's heart inside and whether not he received Confession....so that is why there is flexibility there.
In addition, although he received an annulment from his first marriage, he did not receive one from his second. So essentially, he committed a sin because he married again, without having an annulment. the second marriage is still valid by the Church. Therefore, he is not supposed to receive Communion because the Sacrament has not been dissolved through an annulment. Any person that is divorced and did nto receive an annulment is not supposed to receive Communion, so he is also out of line there too.
And also, I would think that he would have the common sense not to receive in public like that... one, he lied to the Cardinal. two, as a politician he actively promotes anti-Catholic teaching and three, he did not receive an annulment. SO really, I think Guiliani is completely in the wrong and I applaude Cardinal Egan for calling him out on it.
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| Posted 4/30/08 3:49 PM |
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donegal419
St. Gerard, pray for us.
Member since 7/07 7650 total posts
Name:
K
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by Meaghan729
and the catholic church wonders why they are loosing parishoners.
they are losing parishoners because many of them dont' take the time to educate themselves about what the Church teaches. If they dont' agree with it, it's bye-bye! hwo about picking up the Catechism of the Catholci Church or sitting down with a clergy member and finding out why the Church says what they do about certain issues?
It makes me so sad how many godo people leave the Church based on pure ignorance or "inconveience." 
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| Posted 4/30/08 3:55 PM |
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sfp0701
Liam's Mommy!
Member since 1/07 9764 total posts
Name:
Tricia
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
YEah I was  when I heard that too. I assumed it was because of his adultery.. although if he confessed it he would be okay to receive again.
I just don't get where the cardinal gets to dictate wether or not someone receives communion when he hasn't committed a mortal sin!
ETA: Okay I posted this before I read through the whole thread. Stupid move. Actually I think there was a lot of really interesting points made here. I guess by supporting abortion he is in fact helping people to get abortions. Which is a sin, according to the church.
I just find that many catholic politicians take the chicken road out and say, " I don't support abortion personally but I won't sign any legislation against it". Look, either you are for it or you are not. And if you have to lie about your beliefs to get elected than you don't deserve to be in office. Which is I guess an inherent problem with our political system and politicians in general.
So I guess it is okay for Cardinal Egan to be upset that he had a private agreement with him and counseled him on this and he went against it!
Message edited 4/30/2008 4:10:52 PM.
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| Posted 4/30/08 3:57 PM |
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itkocak
Member since 7/07 7639 total posts
Name:
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Message edited 11/18/2011 5:13:51 PM.
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| Posted 4/30/08 3:58 PM |
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sfp0701
Liam's Mommy!
Member since 1/07 9764 total posts
Name:
Tricia
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
But see I am Catholic, but I have used birth control. And I am supposed to be not catholic anymore? I also love my BIL who is gay and support his right to be in a homosexaul relationships and I pray that he can get married one day.
Does that mean I should renounce my religion. I think it is totally okay and healthy to question your religion and I would be worried if someone just followed it to the letter of the law and NEVER EVER thought about whether or not you totally agree. For the most part I agreee. But on those two topics I don't. I am still catholic.
The stance on Birth control is just not feasible for me in this day and age. I cannot have 17 children. I just can't. We would be homeless.
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| Posted 4/30/08 4:14 PM |
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MegZee
My bunny
Member since 5/06 8777 total posts
Name:
Meaghan
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by donegal419
Posted by Meaghan729
and the catholic church wonders why they are loosing parishoners.
they are losing parishoners because many of them dont' take the time to educate themselves about what the Church teaches. If they dont' agree with it, it's bye-bye! hwo about picking up the Catechism of the Catholci Church or sitting down with a clergy member and finding out why the Church says what they do about certain issues?
It makes me so sad how many godo people leave the Church based on pure ignorance or "inconveience."
if you read my other post - i said my 80 year old uncle (who is a catholic priest) said that the church needs to do something. Having rules just because they are "old" does not make sense to me.
There was a time you could pay for indulgences - basically you were paying MONEY to wipe out your sins. It was accepted by the Catholic Church. So are you saying we should do that again because its an old tradition?
its not inconvenience. I personally would never get an abortion - but I dont think that I should have the right to stop someone else - so that makes me less of a catholic? 
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| Posted 4/30/08 4:21 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
well what a shepard we have then, if what Kevin says is true. i am hurt to think that the church doesn't consider me a catholic, when so much of the life I live and the beliefs I hold come from my religion.
and I am not sure who, but someone said either you "believe in" abortion or you don't.
for me, it's not that simple. I don't believe in abortion, but I believe in every womans right to formulate her OWN belief.
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| Posted 4/30/08 4:40 PM |
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juanvi
Get Out!
Member since 10/06 4463 total posts
Name:
Christina
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Not totally related, but Donna used to work in my building years ago and was infamous for blowing up the bathroom before she went on air.
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| Posted 4/30/08 4:41 PM |
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Kara
Now Zagat Rated!
Member since 3/07 13217 total posts
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They call me "Tater Salad"
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
ITA and did no one read my PP?
It's all there in black and white. Based on the Catholic Church's beliefs there is no disscusion, no leeway. You either follow the doctrines or you don't and if you don't then you are not considered Catholic as far as the Church is concerned. You can say you're Catholic but in the eyes of the church you are not.
EFS
I whole-heartedly disagree.
There is debate even among cardinals and bishops over much church doctrine. You don't have to swallow absolutely everything the church throws at you to be considered a Catholic in the eyes of the church. There are many priests and other lay Catholics who are moving for certain changes in Church doctrine -- their differing opinions on the doctrine isn't enough to make them not Catholic in the eyes of the Church.
Despite the many rules and doctrines of the church, the tenets of Catholicism are not based on dogma, they are based on the fundamental religious beliefs contained in the creed.
While there are rules Catholics are supposed to follow, you don't automatically get excommunicated if you fail to follow all of them all the time. There IS an emphasis on forgiveness in the Church and an understanding that everyone sins. While the Church has strong stances in many areas, I've never once met a Catholic who believed every last piece of doctrine of the Church. If that were necessary, there would be no Catholics.
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| Posted 4/30/08 5:00 PM |
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MST9106
My life:)
Member since 6/06 9589 total posts
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by chikita315
Posted by Elbee
It was said on the news last night that it was an agreement made before his divorce to Donna Hanover.
Not totally related, but Donna used to work in my building years ago and was infamous for blowing up the bathroom before she went on air.
Dude I just PIMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! How did I miss this?????
Message edited 4/30/2008 5:03:38 PM.
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| Posted 4/30/08 5:03 PM |
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itkocak
Member since 7/07 7639 total posts
Name:
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Message edited 11/18/2011 5:15:20 PM.
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| Posted 4/30/08 5:04 PM |
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itkocak
Member since 7/07 7639 total posts
Name:
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Message edited 11/18/2011 5:15:35 PM.
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| Posted 4/30/08 5:08 PM |
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dpli
Daylight savings :)
Member since 5/05 13973 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Posted by imthekevinofcindyandkevin
ITA and did no one read my PP?
It's all there in black and white. Based on the Catholic Church's beliefs there is no disscusion, no leeway. You either follow the doctrines or you don't and if you don't then you are not considered Catholic as far as the Church is concerned. You can say you're Catholic but in the eyes of the church you are not.
EFS
I scanned the responses, but this jumped out at me. I don't agree with this either. If you don't follow some of the teachings, you may not be in a state of grace, but there is room for forgiveness and for a person to follow his or her conscience in the Church.
The comments about how the Church shouldn't change always crack me up - as if the current Church has always been this way. It's believed that in the very early church there were women priests and it is known that there were once married priests. If there was no Vatican II, we would still be attending Latin masses with the priest facing the altar. The Church was created by man, inspired by the gospels, there is room for change and interpretation, IMO.
And going back to the original comment, a similar thing happened with John Kerry during his presidential campaign, but I don't remember where. I seem to remember him being refused communion for his views on abortion.
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| Posted 4/30/08 5:16 PM |
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itkocak
Member since 7/07 7639 total posts
Name:
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
Message edited 11/18/2011 5:16:08 PM.
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| Posted 4/30/08 5:29 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: someone riddle me this: Cardinal Egan is upset with Rudy Guiliani for taking communion during the Pope's visit
hmm - i don't know how to feel. i think the cardinal is going overboard a bit - yet, he is entitled to feel how he does. at the same time, rudy should have been honest with him - yet, who am i to say that is bad b/c i lied to my priest when he asked DH and i if we lived together or practiced premarital sex. that being said, i don't really know how to feel lol - i can see both sides of it. although, i do feel bad now b/c i'm pro-choice and take communion - i guess cardinal egan would be upset w/ me too 
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| Posted 4/30/08 6:21 PM |
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