Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

I read this today in the NY Times and found it to be a beautifully written and insightful piece. I'm curious what others think?

"Zionism and Israel's War with Hamas in Gaza"

Please, please, PLEASE keep this thread respectful. This is a huge issue effecting many of us at the moment. Remember the feelings of your fellow posters. Thanks

Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

Well, I really thought a lot about that other post when I read about all the children harmed yesterday by the missiles that hit the school/refugee camp. While I do believe in Israel, the rising number of civilian and specifically child casualties in Palestine, are making me re-think my position. Not that I'm all of a sudden joining Hamas, still believe in the Israeli state and everything she stands for, but just starting to question the best course of action. I believe that was really the crux of that post the other day. I'll never figure out why it was pulled or locked. I guess twenty page threads about how much money to give at a christening are better around here.

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

I agree with you. One of the reasons I loved this opinion piece is that he is struggling with what Israel is doing and how as a zionist it affects him. You can love Israel but not "like" her. That's how I feel at the moment. Something has to happen here. Too many children and innocents being killed.

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

I'm glad you posted this. I've been thinking about that thread a lot as I am glad it was created; it urged me to conduct my own research on the issue and become more informed on the issue. After days looking into the conflict my conclusion is that both sides are wrong which is why I don't understand the righteousness on either side. I really can't believe some of the stuff going on and the propaganda on each side. I've read so many different accounts from humanitarian groups that has really made me think about some of the stuff that the government ( specifically the Israeli govt in this case) is putting out there).

Either way it is a sad, horrific situation

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

Posted by Jugglemom

I'm glad you posted this. I've been thinking about that thread a lot as I am glad it was created; it urged me to conduct my own research on the issue and become more informed on the issue. After days looking into the conflict my conclusion is that both sides are wrong which is why I don't understand the righteousness on either side. I really can't believe some of the stuff going on and the propaganda on each side. I've read so many different accounts from humanitarian groups that has really made me think about some of the stuff that the government ( specifically the Israeli govt in this case) is putting out there).

Either way it is a sad, horrific situation

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

Posted by shadows

Posted by Jugglemom

I'm glad you posted this. I've been thinking about that thread a lot as I am glad it was created; it urged me to conduct my own research on the issue and become more informed on the issue. After days looking into the conflict my conclusion is that both sides are wrong which is why I don't understand the righteousness on either side. I really can't believe some of the stuff going on and the propaganda on each side. I've read so many different accounts from humanitarian groups that has really made me think about some of the stuff that the government ( specifically the Israeli govt in this case) is putting out there).

Either way it is a sad, horrific situation

I read the other thread but didn't comment. I agree with all of this.

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

I think being that I am removed from the situation and do not have anything "personal" invested in it.....I understand that Israel has the right to defend itself and it's people and Hamas is just as guilty, however, this is ABHORRENT. There are too many innocents dying....1/3 of the deaths are children. No, just no...that is NOT OK, Israel, yes, has the right to defend itself, absolutely....but in doing so and exercising their right, it is my belief that they are also in violation of international war laws in so that they are harming and targeting civilians/civilian areas, LARGE LARGE amounts of civilians. In that case, while they have every right to go to war, they do not have the right to inflict thousands of civilian injuries and death.

I'm sorry, but this has to stop. I know there are deep rooted issues that go back hundreds of years but under no circumstances is what is happening in Gaza OK. Ever.

The people in Gaza, the children being killed are NOT Hamas, they are BABIES. Hundreds of babies......so while I think both sides are wrong and both sides will cut off their noses to spite their faces, I think both sides spew propaganda, I can see how the media spins in favor of Gaza and how Israel is losing a PR war. I get that, I do. I get that this goes deeper than I will ever understand. But as a human being, what Israel is doing to the people of Gaza has to stop. There is no humane way, no way to "try" to be humanitarians about it....the fact is, babies are dead, innocent people are dead, every.single.day. When children playing at a park die.....you dont get to play the "we tried to warn them" card.

They tell them to evacuate but my questions is...TO WHERE?? Where are the people of Gaza supposed to go....where can they bring their children where it is safe? Egypt...no. Israel....no....Schools...no....Hospitals....no......UN Sanctioned buildings.....no. They have no place to go. They are sitting ducks. It is not OK. As a mother......this is NOT OK.

Even if their reasoning to go to war is sound, that does not mean how they engage in it is just.

Message edited 7/31/2014 10:05:36 PM.

Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

All I can say as a history teacher is that the conflict in this area has been going on for Centuries. It continues today. It shouldn't take thousands of years to resolve a conflict, but here we are today, continuing to witness tragedy, blame and bloodshed. I don't know how to resolve this conflict peacefully, and now with social media and cable news, it becomes more difficult to be diplomatic.
No answers and no opinion. It's just a sad tragedy.

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

Just have to say what normal people put guns,rockets,weapons inside schools, homes, who uses their own children as human shields! This has been documented many times by both reporters who report the truth! That's why there are so many children who died. Israel does not kill children unless there shooting from inside schools, or even have explosives booby trapped inside building and walls. Yes I feel terrible that any child should die but Israel is in a situation where it's their citizens or the people digging the tunnels and shooting the rockets Yes, we have to defend our people and our children.If the people of Gaza would care about human life theirs or ours they would never be in this horrible situation!

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

I don't agree with the article or with much of what is being said on here. I don't feel like going back and forth, but I will make three quick points. 1. Hamas has spent 90 million dollars in aid money on building tunnels into Israel and rockets. They haven't spend a penny to build bomb shelters for their people or protect them in any way. They have done nothing to improve infrastructure or ease poverty. 2. They deliberately hide weapons in civilian heavy zones. Last week, they choose a Un school. They love civilian casualties because it is a huge PR win for them. 3. There are videos of Hamas leaders going on Palestinian TV and telling Palestinians to stay in their homes as act as human shields as a way to gain victory against Israel. I am happy to share these videos if anyone is interested. So while I am heartbroken by the death of innocents I feel the blood is on the hands of Hamas ( for many more reasons than stated here ).

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

Agree with MrsA!


I wonder if those who feel that what Israel is doing is wrong would feel the same way if it was the US who was constantly being attacked.

Message edited 8/1/2014 1:56:17 AM.

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

Your right about their using aid money that they get from all over the world to buy more weapons, dig more tunnels, not to help their own people . Israel requires almost every buildings to have a safe room Yes, how sad it is that the people of Gaza have no place to go to for protection. My heart hurts for every child and innocent person that died this is the making of their own government that using human beings as shields using babies to win this horrible war. Their not saying we can compromise with the people of Israel their saying let's kill all the Jews in this holy war! Their saying to the mothers and fathers of the children killed, don't be sad your children are martyrs and are going to heaven! The people of Gaza have no place to go to because they didn't build protection for their people they are look for only destruction ! Israel gave back the land to the people of Gaza with buildings, development of land They just used this to build tunnels and shoot rockets! They refuse to be a partner in peace !

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

Posted by MrsA1012

Posted by blumachaya

Just have to say what normal people put guns,rockets,weapons inside schools, homes, who uses their own children as human shields! This has been documented many times by both reporters who report the truth! That's why there are so many children who died. Israel does not kill children unless there shooting from inside schools, or even have explosives booby trapped inside building and walls. Yes I feel terrible that any child should die but Israel is in a situation where it's their citizens or the people digging the tunnels and shooting the rockets Yes, we have to defend our people and our children.If the people of Gaza would care about human life theirs or ours they would never be in this horrible situation!

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

Interesting article! Thanks for posting. I don't really comment or give my opinion on this topic, but I do think both sides are wrong. But this time, I'm not sure what to think.

I found this article interesting as well. FYI: You have to sign in with FB, but it doesn't post for you.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.608008

Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

know very little about the topic and really have no opinion cause of that but do the people In Palestine really have a choice? do they have any power over the government? is there anywhere for them to leave if they wanted too? I ask cause everyone makes it seem like the civilians have some choice. I get Hamas is choosing to no protect their people. Do the civilians really have a choice to not let them hide bombs in their houses? do they really have a choice to evacuate? i truly would like to know based on the responses in this thread

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

This is precisely the problem. Each side is so blinded by their own passion on the subject that they refuse to see their own culpability. Everyone is too busy yelling "he started it".

The people of Gaza are not Hamas. These people have nothing much less the power to stop Hamas. No one is arguing that Hamas is doing something deplorable in hiding rockets in civilian areas but the firepower that Israel is launching into dense civilian areas is so disproportionate and not at all surgical.

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

Has anyone seen the documentary 5 Broken Cameras? It's supposed to be good, but I haven't seen it.

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

Do the people of Israel have a choice either stop the tunnels coming right into their homes and schools or the rockets killing people. What choice does Israel have but to defend their citizens. We didn't start this war. It's not ok for Israel to not do anything to protect their people. Just let Israeli citizens be killed so both sides have equal deaths!!

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

I just read this article on Huffington Post.
I found it kind of interesting.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/picking-a-side-in-israel-palestine_b_5602701.html
This whole thing is so awful and so horrifically sad. I cannot even imagine living under this kind of fear and terror day in and day out for all of the civilians -and even the military - they probably have families too.
Just devastating and I wish someone could come up with a solution - but I guess that much bad blood on both sides makes it hard to come to an agreement - especially with a group like Hamas always flaming the fire.

Re: Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

Spinoff to Israel/Palestine thread from last week...

What disturbs me the most int he recent events is the UN schools/buildings. They interviewed the (I believe british) man that runs the one UN school. He works for the UN and is a neutral party. I can't believe the UN would allow Hamas to store weapons here so the death and detraction of these building is very very wrong IMO.

I won't get into the whole situation over there because I think both side have blame.