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Jenhos
Maeve
Member since 6/05 3273 total posts
Name:
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Student Debt Forgiveness
Since this has been a big campaign promise by the Democrats I am curious of peoples thoughts.
Should college debt be forgiven?
Would it be a one time thing or will every generation to come get money to forgive their debt?
Will people that paid off their debts be eligible to get some reimbursement?
I don't have loans, but many of my friends do. They picked expensive private Universities and are still paying. My niece is picking a school soon and she has in-state and out of state options. She really wants the expensive out of state option that will leave her with debt. I have kids getting close to college age so tuition and how it will get paid is a big topic in my house.
How do we think this will all work? Should it happen?
My opinion is that we shouldn't forgive student debt. First, I would rather see community college become a free or minimal cost option. If you CHOOSE an expensive private school that is on you (similar to buying a house you can't really afford). How we pay for this is my whole other issue but that is for another topic.
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Posted 1/5/21 5:57 PM  |
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BFNY516
LIF Adult
Member since 7/20 1189 total posts
Name:
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Student Debt Forgiveness
I’m all for it with certain parameters. I have zero student loan debt but I know it’s a tremendous weight for many. It would stimulate the economy. More money for people to be able to spend.
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| Posted 1/5/21 6:10 PM |
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BFNY516
LIF Adult
Member since 7/20 1189 total posts
Name:
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Student Debt Forgiveness
Like Trump for example was able to declare bankruptcy and start over many times, not pay taxes, and still have $? Or all the ways Bezos can use the system to his advantage as CEO of Amazon? Great. Then let’s also excuse student loan debt. We can do it.
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| Posted 1/5/21 6:12 PM |
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Jenhos
Maeve
Member since 6/05 3273 total posts
Name:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by BFNY516
Like Trump for example was able to declare bankruptcy and start over many times, not pay taxes, and still have $? Or all the ways Bezos can use the system to his advantage as CEO of Amazon? Great. Then let’s also excuse student loan debt. We can do it.
Bankruptcy happens all the time with big businesses and private citizens. It is allowable and does come with consequences.
As for tax loopholes that cover the wealthy and corporations they have existed forever and both sides have had opportunities to close them and don't . Don't kid yourself that Democrats aren't in bed with the wealthy and big corporations.
You didn't really answer the question. How would it work? One time thing? future generations? Private schools or public only? Curious what you think parameters would be.
Analysis has been done on the reward (stimulating the economy) and the cost to forgive those debts and we would owe way more than we would get back from the economy.
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| Posted 1/5/21 6:24 PM |
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RainyDay
LIF Adult
Member since 6/15 3990 total posts
Name:
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Student Debt Forgiveness
I don't really get why student loans should be forgiven? Dh and I had to pay them off ourselves.
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| Posted 1/6/21 2:46 AM |
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BFNY516
LIF Adult
Member since 7/20 1189 total posts
Name:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by RainyDay
I don't really get why student loans should be forgiven? Dh and I had to pay them off ourselves.
I did too. Some economists suggest it would greatly stimulate the economy w/increasing buying power. It wouldn’t be out of kindness, but economics.
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| Posted 1/6/21 3:21 AM |
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult
Member since 7/14 7274 total posts
Name:
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Student Debt Forgiveness
I went to public universities and have no debt. DH paid his loans off several years ago. But just because WE aren’t in debt doesn’t minimize my concern for those who are.
I agree with it helping the economy. The fact of the matter is not everyone can go to a public university because they can’t just take everyone who applies. So where does everyone else go if not a private college? I do believe everyone should have the right to an education and lack of funds should not cause anyone to abandon their ambitions.
I also can’t stand the whole “not everyone has to go to college” argument. Of course not everyone has to go to college. But that doesn’t mean those who do want to go and are able to meet admission standards have to forgo what they’ve worked for because someone tells them they don’t “need” to go.
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| Posted 1/6/21 4:00 AM |
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BFNY516
LIF Adult
Member since 7/20 1189 total posts
Name:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by LuckyStar
I went to public universities and have no debt. DH paid his loans off several years ago. But just because WE aren’t in debt doesn’t minimize my concern for those who are.
I agree with it helping the economy. The fact of the matter is not everyone can go to a public university because they can’t just take everyone who applies. So where does everyone else go if not a private college? I do believe everyone should have the right to an education and lack of funds should not cause anyone to abandon their ambitions.
I also can’t stand the whole “not everyone has to go to college” argument. Of course not everyone has to go to college. But that doesn’t mean those who do want to go and are able to meet admission standards have to forgo what they’ve worked for because someone tells them they don’t “need” to go.
Good points.
SUNYs for example have become more selective due to more students opting for them because of the lower price point. The percentage of applicants has increased and the # is projected to go higher in time. They won’t be able to take every student, so many young adults will need to resort to private schools which tend to be more costly. I just read that SUNY medical schools are seeing rising medical school applicants since the pandemic.
And I agree on “not everyone needs college”. They don’t, but not every young adult is cut out or wants to be a plumber, electrician, union carpenter, or HVAC specialist. Those are all great paying careers, but you must like what you do.
Most career positions that are full time and pay fairly decently are requiring a BA at minimum. I haven’t seen too much “experience in lieu of a degree” anymore. If anything, I’m seeing more preferred qualifications to include a masters or higher.
Loan debt forgiveness, especially if the debtor must become a mentor, or volunteer, something of that sort, can further pay it forward for society as a whole while also advancing the economy.
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| Posted 1/6/21 5:16 AM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
I think something needs to be done about student debt. I don't think a "Poof! All student debt is gone!" idea is good.
Student loans, grants, college costs, etc. need to be reformed.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/zengernews/2020/08/31/college-tuition-is-rising-at-twice-the-inflation-rate-while-students-learn-at-home/?sh=6cdd54732f98
The average cost of attending a four-year college or university in the United States rose by 497% between the 1985-86 and 2017-18 academic years, more than twice the rate of inflation.
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“Seventy percent of the ‘good jobs’ in the 1970s went to people with a high school degree,” said Anthony Carnevale, director of the Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce and a professor at the school. Georgetown worked with economists to define ‘good jobs’ as those starting at $35,000 per year and eventually paying between $45,000 and $55,000, in current dollars.
Now 70% of good jobs, those paths to the middle class, require a degree. “Since 1983, college has become necessary,” Carnevale said.
The median weekly earning for someone with a high school diploma was $746 last year, according to federal Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers. With a bachelor’s degree, that jumped to $1,248.
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I love trade schools, and I think it's an extremely viable route. I teach my Scouts welding, and it's actually a merit badge requirement to research careers in welding (there's similar badges and requirements for plumbing, electrician, woodworker, etc). However, not everyone is destined for the trades, so college is a "requirement" for many individuals. I'd hate to see an intelligent student not be able to go to higher education because their parents can't afford a $100,000 loan.
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| Posted 1/8/21 7:59 PM |
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Diane
Hope is Contagious....catch it
Member since 5/05 30683 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by RainyDay
I don't really get why student loans should be forgiven? Dh and I had to pay them off ourselves.
Totally agree.
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| Posted 1/8/21 8:10 PM |
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alli3131
Peanut is here!!!!!!
Member since 5/09 18388 total posts
Name:
Allison
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Student Debt Forgiveness
DH and I both have a large amount of student loans. We pay more per month than some people pay in mortgage payments. We are able to pay it monthly but if we even had a small fraction forgiven that money would most likely be put right back in the economy. We would do projects on our house, take vacations or spend it on my sons hockey career!!
Message edited 1/8/2021 8:15:04 PM.
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| Posted 1/8/21 8:13 PM |
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LittleDiva
LIF Adult
Member since 9/11 1284 total posts
Name:
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Student Debt Forgiveness
I think we need to educate kids on what a student loan is. I know when I took mine out I just signed a paper and had some money. Not until I bought my first house did I really understand what I got myself into.
Community college and state colleges need to be pushed more in lieu of private colleges. High schools need to spend more time helping kids figure out what they really want to do.....I can’t tell you how many friends have psychology or sociology degrees and don’t have a career in that field. Now they are paying big time for a degree they don’t use.
I’d be annoyed if they just wiped them clean. I worked my butt off to pay mine off early. We need to invest in educating kids about finances.
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| Posted 1/8/21 8:16 PM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by LittleDiva
I think we need to educate kids on what a student loan is. I know when I took mine out I just signed a paper and had some money. Not until I bought my first house did I really understand what I got myself into.
Community college and state colleges need to be pushed more in lieu of private colleges. High schools need to spend more time helping kids figure out what they really want to do.....I can’t tell you how many friends have psychology or sociology degrees and don’t have a career in that field. Now they are paying big time for a degree they don’t use.
I’d be annoyed if they just wiped them clean. I worked my butt off to pay mine off early. We need to invest in educating kids about finances.
ITA! I have said for the longest time that every kid in HS should be required to take a financial class where they learn about debt, loans, credit cards, saving, mortgages, investing, etc. etc. Kids head off into the world with literally no understanding of money and that's how they get into trouble in the first place.
Guidance counselors also need to stop telling kids to get into their dream school first and worry about the money later. Worry about the money first, you can get a great education without spending $200K.
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| Posted 1/8/21 8:19 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
I'm in favor of it but I'm also fine with limitations. It doesn't have to be the whole amount. But people need relief.
I know several people who would struggle a lot less without them. That money would go right into the economy.
I don't buy the "I had to pay them off so everyone else should too" argument. If we as a society are to progress there are going to be advancements that other people - including our children - will have that we didn't have. And that's as it should be.
Besides, if we can get some really progressive legislation going then other changes can also affect people who might not benefit from this.
But I still would argue that the benefit to the economy would indirectly help many people who might not benefit directly.
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| Posted 1/8/21 9:13 PM |
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KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination
Member since 5/05 4431 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Student Debt Forgiveness
No I am not in favor of it at all. When we were younger we went to college based on what we could afford or if we got scholarships. We had very little student debt because I worked during college to pay for it.
I do think that SUNY schools should be cheaper and subsidized more. I also think that if they ever do give loan forgiveness, they that person should be doing something to give back to society. Such as if you are a doctor who of course will have a ton of student loans, need to work at a VA hospital or something like that for a few years. College education is not a right, it is a want.
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| Posted 1/8/21 10:58 PM |
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Not in favor and I have a child with a large student debt. Private and public college and a big bill to follow.
We help as much as we can but child will be paying it mostly on their own.
College is a choice and you need figure out how to pay it without saddling the tax payers with your bill.
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| Posted 1/8/21 11:03 PM |
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soontobemommyof2
My boys...my everything <3
Member since 4/15 3635 total posts
Name:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by KarenK122
No I am not in favor of it at all. When we were younger we went to college based on what we could afford or if we got scholarships. We had very little student debt because I worked during college to pay for it.
I do think that SUNY schools should be cheaper and subsidized more. I also think that if they ever do give loan forgiveness, they that person should be doing something to give back to society. Such as if you are a doctor who of course will have a ton of student loans, need to work at a VA hospital or something like that for a few years. College education is not a right, it is a want.
They had that for teachers that would work in high need schools, u’d need to work 5 consecutive years to have ur loan forgiven. I was in my 2nd year working in a school that qualified but then stopped soon after I gave birth to DS1 so I never completed those 5 consecutive years. That was years ago, I don’t know if they still have that loan forgiveness going on for teachers.
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| Posted 1/8/21 11:07 PM |
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Jenhos
Maeve
Member since 6/05 3273 total posts
Name:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by JennP
I don't buy the "I had to pay them off so everyone else should too" argument. If we as a society are to progress there are going to be advancements that other people - including our children - will have that we didn't have. And that's as it should be.
I think the point is I choose where I went and I paid for it. Why should I now as a tax payer have to bail out others who didn’t think through paying off the loans they took?
I agree college costs are out of control and something needs to be done. But if the five continues to nil people out there is no responsibility. Why would the generation coming up run up their debts thinking the government will just forgive the debt?
The economic gain isn’t greater than the cost. Lots of analysis has been done on this.
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| Posted 1/8/21 11:08 PM |
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by Jenhos
Posted by JennP
I don't buy the "I had to pay them off so everyone else should too" argument. If we as a society are to progress there are going to be advancements that other people - including our children - will have that we didn't have. And that's as it should be.
I think the point is I choose where I went and I paid for it. Why should I now as a tax payer have to bail out others who didn’t think through paying off the loans they took?
I agree college costs are out of control and something needs to be done. But if the five continues to nil people out there is no responsibility. Why would the generation coming up run up their debts thinking the government will just forgive the debt?
The economic gain isn’t greater than the cost. Lots of analysis has been done on this.
Exactly and these schools allow almost anyone in and charge exorbitant fees. My 2nd saw the 1st kid and will start off cheaper and then work up. They don’t want the student debt the 1st one has.
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| Posted 1/8/21 11:29 PM |
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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
Name:
Me speaks pirate!
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by KarenK122
I do think that SUNY schools should be cheaper and subsidized more. I also think that if they ever do give loan forgiveness, they that person should be doing something to give back to society. Such as if you are a doctor who of course will have a ton of student loans, need to work at a VA hospital or something like that for a few years. College education is not a right, it is a want.
I agree. I think the focus should be on making college more affordable and an attainable goal for students that want to attend and meet the requirements than straight out loan forgiveness. And when speaking about loan forgiveness it shouldn't be "free money", but have to be worked for in exchange by providing a service for the betterment of the community (like you mentioned working for the VA or at low income/high-needs schools/communities).
I somewhat disagree with your last point though. These days a college degree seems to be a basic requirement for even the most entry level positions. We should also give kids more options like working their way up from community college or attending trade schools.
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| Posted 1/8/21 11:56 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by Jenhos
Posted by JennP
I don't buy the "I had to pay them off so everyone else should too" argument. If we as a society are to progress there are going to be advancements that other people - including our children - will have that we didn't have. And that's as it should be.
I think the point is I choose where I went and I paid for it. Why should I now as a tax payer have to bail out others who didn’t think through paying off the loans they took?
I agree college costs are out of control and something needs to be done. But if the five continues to nil people out there is no responsibility. Why would the generation coming up run up their debts thinking the government will just forgive the debt?
The economic gain isn’t greater than the cost. Lots of analysis has been done on this.
Because you're part of a society and we can and should do things for the greater good, but more to the point I also believe we should/could finance it in a way that would not take money out of anyone's pocket by cutting back spending on our bloated military budget and closing tax loopholes that allow for things like deductions for yachts. Things like that are no brainers to me but are resisted for absurd reasons I don't have time to go into.
ETA - I think it's also shortsighted to argue that they didn't think them through. I'm sure that's true for some but there are economic and market conditions that have caused well intentioned people to be in difficult situations sometimes through no fault of their own.
But all of this is why we as a country are declining in so many ways. Our lack of a social safety net causes so many people to struggle - our health care system, ridiculous education costs, paltry retirement security. All of this really stifles innovation and advancement. Our numbers as a country have plummeted in recent years in so many categories. It's sad.
Message edited 1/9/2021 12:32:43 PM.
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| Posted 1/9/21 12:27 PM |
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by JennP
Posted by Jenhos
Posted by JennP
I don't buy the "I had to pay them off so everyone else should too" argument. If we as a society are to progress there are going to be advancements that other people - including our children - will have that we didn't have. And that's as it should be.
I think the point is I choose where I went and I paid for it. Why should I now as a tax payer have to bail out others who didn’t think through paying off the loans they took?
I agree college costs are out of control and something needs to be done. But if the five continues to nil people out there is no responsibility. Why would the generation coming up run up their debts thinking the government will just forgive the debt?
The economic gain isn’t greater than the cost. Lots of analysis has been done on this.
Because you're part of a society and we can and should do things for the greater good, but more to the point I also believe we should/could finance it in a way that would not take money out of anyone's pocket by cutting back spending on our bloated military budget and closing tax loopholes that allow for things like deductions for yachts. Things like that are no brainers to me but are resisted for absurd reasons I don't have time to go into.
ETA - I think it's also shortsighted to argue that they didn't think them through. I'm sure that's true for some but there are economic and market conditions that have caused well intentioned people to be in difficult situations sometimes through no fault of their own.
But all of this is why we as a country are declining in so many ways. Our lack of a social safety net causes so many people to struggle - our health care system, ridiculous education costs, paltry retirement security. All of this really stifles innovation and advancement. Our numbers as a country have plummeted in recent years in so many categories. It's sad.
I don’t think the military should suffer. They are protecting you and I.
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| Posted 1/9/21 12:58 PM |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by valentinesbaby48
Posted by JennP
Posted by Jenhos
Posted by JennP
I don't buy the "I had to pay them off so everyone else should too" argument. If we as a society are to progress there are going to be advancements that other people - including our children - will have that we didn't have. And that's as it should be.
I think the point is I choose where I went and I paid for it. Why should I now as a tax payer have to bail out others who didn’t think through paying off the loans they took?
I agree college costs are out of control and something needs to be done. But if the five continues to nil people out there is no responsibility. Why would the generation coming up run up their debts thinking the government will just forgive the debt?
The economic gain isn’t greater than the cost. Lots of analysis has been done on this.
Because you're part of a society and we can and should do things for the greater good, but more to the point I also believe we should/could finance it in a way that would not take money out of anyone's pocket by cutting back spending on our bloated military budget and closing tax loopholes that allow for things like deductions for yachts. Things like that are no brainers to me but are resisted for absurd reasons I don't have time to go into.
ETA - I think it's also shortsighted to argue that they didn't think them through. I'm sure that's true for some but there are economic and market conditions that have caused well intentioned people to be in difficult situations sometimes through no fault of their own.
But all of this is why we as a country are declining in so many ways. Our lack of a social safety net causes so many people to struggle - our health care system, ridiculous education costs, paltry retirement security. All of this really stifles innovation and advancement. Our numbers as a country have plummeted in recent years in so many categories. It's sad.
I don’t think the military should suffer. They are protecting you and I.
"Soldiers" and the "Military Complex" are two very different things. Soldiers should always get our full support. The Military doesn't always need to spend the billions that they do.
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| Posted 1/9/21 1:33 AM |
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by valentinesbaby48
Posted by JennP
Posted by Jenhos
Posted by JennP
I don't buy the "I had to pay them off so everyone else should too" argument. If we as a society are to progress there are going to be advancements that other people - including our children - will have that we didn't have. And that's as it should be.
I think the point is I choose where I went and I paid for it. Why should I now as a tax payer have to bail out others who didn’t think through paying off the loans they took?
I agree college costs are out of control and something needs to be done. But if the five continues to nil people out there is no responsibility. Why would the generation coming up run up their debts thinking the government will just forgive the debt?
The economic gain isn’t greater than the cost. Lots of analysis has been done on this.
Because you're part of a society and we can and should do things for the greater good, but more to the point I also believe we should/could finance it in a way that would not take money out of anyone's pocket by cutting back spending on our bloated military budget and closing tax loopholes that allow for things like deductions for yachts. Things like that are no brainers to me but are resisted for absurd reasons I don't have time to go into.
ETA - I think it's also shortsighted to argue that they didn't think them through. I'm sure that's true for some but there are economic and market conditions that have caused well intentioned people to be in difficult situations sometimes through no fault of their own.
But all of this is why we as a country are declining in so many ways. Our lack of a social safety net causes so many people to struggle - our health care system, ridiculous education costs, paltry retirement security. All of this really stifles innovation and advancement. Our numbers as a country have plummeted in recent years in so many categories. It's sad.
I don’t think the military should suffer. They are protecting you and I.
"Soldiers" and the "Military Complex" are two very different things. Soldiers should always get our full support. The Military doesn't always need to spend the billions that they do.
Depends on what it is for. I am sure many veterans and current people on the military would disagree with you.
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| Posted 1/9/21 1:46 AM |
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KarenK122
The Journey is the Destination
Member since 5/05 4431 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by MC09
Posted by KarenK122
I do think that SUNY schools should be cheaper and subsidized more. I also think that if they ever do give loan forgiveness, they that person should be doing something to give back to society. Such as if you are a doctor who of course will have a ton of student loans, need to work at a VA hospital or something like that for a few years. College education is not a right, it is a want.
I agree. I think the focus should be on making college more affordable and an attainable goal for students that want to attend and meet the requirements than straight out loan forgiveness. And when speaking about loan forgiveness it shouldn't be "free money", but have to be worked for in exchange by providing a service for the betterment of the community (like you mentioned working for the VA or at low income/high-needs schools/communities).
I somewhat disagree with your last point though. These days a college degree seems to be a basic requirement for even the most entry level positions. We should also give kids more options like working their way up from community college or attending trade schools.
Totally agree with the trade schools and community colleges. I just meant that you can still live your life and get some sort of a job without a degree. It is not a right like K-12 as you have choices and options on what to do with your future. I'm just saying it not very eloquently :) .
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| Posted 1/9/21 1:54 AM |
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