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RainyDay
LIF Adult
Member since 6/15 3990 total posts
Name:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by JennP
Posted by Jenhos
Posted by JennP
I don't buy the "I had to pay them off so everyone else should too" argument. If we as a society are to progress there are going to be advancements that other people - including our children - will have that we didn't have. And that's as it should be.
I think the point is I choose where I went and I paid for it. Why should I now as a tax payer have to bail out others who didn’t think through paying off the loans they took?
I agree college costs are out of control and something needs to be done. But if the five continues to nil people out there is no responsibility. Why would the generation coming up run up their debts thinking the government will just forgive the debt?
The economic gain isn’t greater than the cost. Lots of analysis has been done on this.
Because you're part of a society and we can and should do things for the greater good, but more to the point I also believe we should/could finance it in a way that would not take money out of anyone's pocket by cutting back spending on our bloated military budget and closing tax loopholes that allow for things like deductions for yachts. Things like that are no brainers to me but are resisted for absurd reasons I don't have time to go into.
ETA - I think it's also shortsighted to argue that they didn't think them through. I'm sure that's true for some but there are economic and market conditions that have caused well intentioned people to be in difficult situations sometimes through no fault of their own.
But all of this is why we as a country are declining in so many ways. Our lack of a social safety net causes so many people to struggle - our health care system, ridiculous education costs, paltry retirement security. All of this really stifles innovation and advancement. Our numbers as a country have plummeted in recent years in so many categories. It's sad.
Ok so then for the greater good, people should start sending their kids to cheaper schools so I don't have the burden of paying MY loans and millions of strangers.
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Posted 1/9/21 2:07 AM  |
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GoldenRod
10 years on LIF!
Member since 11/06 26792 total posts
Name:
Shawn
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by valentinesbaby48
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by valentinesbaby48
Posted by JennP
Posted by Jenhos
Posted by JennP
I don't buy the "I had to pay them off so everyone else should too" argument. If we as a society are to progress there are going to be advancements that other people - including our children - will have that we didn't have. And that's as it should be.
I think the point is I choose where I went and I paid for it. Why should I now as a tax payer have to bail out others who didn’t think through paying off the loans they took?
I agree college costs are out of control and something needs to be done. But if the five continues to nil people out there is no responsibility. Why would the generation coming up run up their debts thinking the government will just forgive the debt?
The economic gain isn’t greater than the cost. Lots of analysis has been done on this.
Because you're part of a society and we can and should do things for the greater good, but more to the point I also believe we should/could finance it in a way that would not take money out of anyone's pocket by cutting back spending on our bloated military budget and closing tax loopholes that allow for things like deductions for yachts. Things like that are no brainers to me but are resisted for absurd reasons I don't have time to go into.
ETA - I think it's also shortsighted to argue that they didn't think them through. I'm sure that's true for some but there are economic and market conditions that have caused well intentioned people to be in difficult situations sometimes through no fault of their own.
But all of this is why we as a country are declining in so many ways. Our lack of a social safety net causes so many people to struggle - our health care system, ridiculous education costs, paltry retirement security. All of this really stifles innovation and advancement. Our numbers as a country have plummeted in recent years in so many categories. It's sad.
I don’t think the military should suffer. They are protecting you and I.
"Soldiers" and the "Military Complex" are two very different things. Soldiers should always get our full support. The Military doesn't always need to spend the billions that they do.
Depends on what it is for. I am sure many veterans and current people on the military would disagree with you.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-rein-in-inflated-military-budgets/
I mean stop wasting money, and spend that money on the actual soldiers, or spend it on things that aren't wasteful. I seriously doubt that active soldiers would prefer wasting billions of dollars on boondoggle projects instead of buying more armor for themselves or their vehicles, or giving them raises.
If you think differently, than that's your decision. I'd rather protect those who protect me instead of wasting billions.
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| Posted 1/9/21 2:24 AM |
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by valentinesbaby48
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by valentinesbaby48
Posted by JennP
Posted by Jenhos
Posted by JennP
I don't buy the "I had to pay them off so everyone else should too" argument. If we as a society are to progress there are going to be advancements that other people - including our children - will have that we didn't have. And that's as it should be.
I think the point is I choose where I went and I paid for it. Why should I now as a tax payer have to bail out others who didn’t think through paying off the loans they took?
I agree college costs are out of control and something needs to be done. But if the five continues to nil people out there is no responsibility. Why would the generation coming up run up their debts thinking the government will just forgive the debt?
The economic gain isn’t greater than the cost. Lots of analysis has been done on this.
Because you're part of a society and we can and should do things for the greater good, but more to the point I also believe we should/could finance it in a way that would not take money out of anyone's pocket by cutting back spending on our bloated military budget and closing tax loopholes that allow for things like deductions for yachts. Things like that are no brainers to me but are resisted for absurd reasons I don't have time to go into.
ETA - I think it's also shortsighted to argue that they didn't think them through. I'm sure that's true for some but there are economic and market conditions that have caused well intentioned people to be in difficult situations sometimes through no fault of their own.
But all of this is why we as a country are declining in so many ways. Our lack of a social safety net causes so many people to struggle - our health care system, ridiculous education costs, paltry retirement security. All of this really stifles innovation and advancement. Our numbers as a country have plummeted in recent years in so many categories. It's sad.
I don’t think the military should suffer. They are protecting you and I.
"Soldiers" and the "Military Complex" are two very different things. Soldiers should always get our full support. The Military doesn't always need to spend the billions that they do.
Depends on what it is for. I am sure many veterans and current people on the military would disagree with you.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-rein-in-inflated-military-budgets/
I mean stop wasting money, and spend that money on the actual soldiers, or spend it on things that aren't wasteful. I seriously doubt that active soldiers would prefer wasting billions of dollars on boondoggle projects instead of buying more armor for themselves or their vehicles, or giving them raises.
If you think differently, than that's your decision. I'd rather protect those who protect me instead of wasting billions.
I would have have to see what current employees think of this as I know many and many veterans. It is different when you are in the military. Have you ever been?
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| Posted 1/9/21 2:27 AM |
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LuckyStar
LIF Adult
Member since 7/14 7274 total posts
Name:
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by KarenK122
Posted by MC09
Posted by KarenK122
I do think that SUNY schools should be cheaper and subsidized more. I also think that if they ever do give loan forgiveness, they that person should be doing something to give back to society. Such as if you are a doctor who of course will have a ton of student loans, need to work at a VA hospital or something like that for a few years. College education is not a right, it is a want.
I agree. I think the focus should be on making college more affordable and an attainable goal for students that want to attend and meet the requirements than straight out loan forgiveness. And when speaking about loan forgiveness it shouldn't be "free money", but have to be worked for in exchange by providing a service for the betterment of the community (like you mentioned working for the VA or at low income/high-needs schools/communities).
I somewhat disagree with your last point though. These days a college degree seems to be a basic requirement for even the most entry level positions. We should also give kids more options like working their way up from community college or attending trade schools.
Totally agree with the trade schools and community colleges. I just meant that you can still live your life and get some sort of a job without a degree. It is not a right like K-12 as you have choices and options on what to do with your future. I'm just saying it not very eloquently :) .
To say this is to say kids without the means to attend college have a list of 10 careers to choose from and those who do have the means have a list of 100 careers to choose from.
Ambition, intelligence and drive should not be limited due to financial circumstances. A wealthy kid isn't automatically more suited to college than a poor one.
The answer going forward may be to make all colleges more affordable, I'm not arguing that. But that doesn't help those who are currently in or already completed college.
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| Posted 1/9/21 1:12 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by RainyDay
Posted by JennP
Posted by Jenhos
Posted by JennP
I don't buy the "I had to pay them off so everyone else should too" argument. If we as a society are to progress there are going to be advancements that other people - including our children - will have that we didn't have. And that's as it should be.
I think the point is I choose where I went and I paid for it. Why should I now as a tax payer have to bail out others who didn’t think through paying off the loans they took?
I agree college costs are out of control and something needs to be done. But if the five continues to nil people out there is no responsibility. Why would the generation coming up run up their debts thinking the government will just forgive the debt?
The economic gain isn’t greater than the cost. Lots of analysis has been done on this.
Because you're part of a society and we can and should do things for the greater good, but more to the point I also believe we should/could finance it in a way that would not take money out of anyone's pocket by cutting back spending on our bloated military budget and closing tax loopholes that allow for things like deductions for yachts. Things like that are no brainers to me but are resisted for absurd reasons I don't have time to go into.
ETA - I think it's also shortsighted to argue that they didn't think them through. I'm sure that's true for some but there are economic and market conditions that have caused well intentioned people to be in difficult situations sometimes through no fault of their own.
But all of this is why we as a country are declining in so many ways. Our lack of a social safety net causes so many people to struggle - our health care system, ridiculous education costs, paltry retirement security. All of this really stifles innovation and advancement. Our numbers as a country have plummeted in recent years in so many categories. It's sad.
Ok so then for the greater good, people should start sending their kids to cheaper schools so I don't have the burden of paying MY loans and millions of strangers.
Huh? False equivalency. Your loans would be gone too.
Besides, as discussed in other posts, there isn't room for everyone at state schools.
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| Posted 1/9/21 1:44 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Student Debt Forgiveness
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by valentinesbaby48
Posted by GoldenRod
Posted by valentinesbaby48
Posted by JennP
Posted by Jenhos
Posted by JennP
I don't buy the "I had to pay them off so everyone else should too" argument. If we as a society are to progress there are going to be advancements that other people - including our children - will have that we didn't have. And that's as it should be.
I think the point is I choose where I went and I paid for it. Why should I now as a tax payer have to bail out others who didn’t think through paying off the loans they took?
I agree college costs are out of control and something needs to be done. But if the five continues to nil people out there is no responsibility. Why would the generation coming up run up their debts thinking the government will just forgive the debt?
The economic gain isn’t greater than the cost. Lots of analysis has been done on this.
Because you're part of a society and we can and should do things for the greater good, but more to the point I also believe we should/could finance it in a way that would not take money out of anyone's pocket by cutting back spending on our bloated military budget and closing tax loopholes that allow for things like deductions for yachts. Things like that are no brainers to me but are resisted for absurd reasons I don't have time to go into.
ETA - I think it's also shortsighted to argue that they didn't think them through. I'm sure that's true for some but there are economic and market conditions that have caused well intentioned people to be in difficult situations sometimes through no fault of their own.
But all of this is why we as a country are declining in so many ways. Our lack of a social safety net causes so many people to struggle - our health care system, ridiculous education costs, paltry retirement security. All of this really stifles innovation and advancement. Our numbers as a country have plummeted in recent years in so many categories. It's sad.
I don’t think the military should suffer. They are protecting you and I.
"Soldiers" and the "Military Complex" are two very different things. Soldiers should always get our full support. The Military doesn't always need to spend the billions that they do.
Depends on what it is for. I am sure many veterans and current people on the military would disagree with you.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/its-time-to-rein-in-inflated-military-budgets/
I mean stop wasting money, and spend that money on the actual soldiers, or spend it on things that aren't wasteful. I seriously doubt that active soldiers would prefer wasting billions of dollars on boondoggle projects instead of buying more armor for themselves or their vehicles, or giving them raises.
If you think differently, than that's your decision. I'd rather protect those who protect me instead of wasting billions.
It's well documented that the military budget is bloated but I am 100% behind meeting the soldier's more "personal" needs.
This sort of gets into a different topic but the truth is that a good portion of what the military does has nothing at all to do with protecting us.
Message edited 1/9/2021 1:49:00 PM.
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| Posted 1/9/21 1:47 PM |
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