UPDATE: HE'S HOME!!! Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

My beloved dog (14 year old rottie/shepard mix) was diagnosed with bladder stones today. He also has them in his urethra.

<------that's him :(

The vet said they can do surgery but it might not be a good idea with his age and his arthritis. At this point he can still make it up the stairs in the house but he is stiff. He does this little double hop but he gets up there.

He still goes for a walk a few times a day and even jumps up and down when we come home. He is still eating and drinking normally.

So, would you have the surgery? We don't want to put him in more pain, but we don't want to kill him either... when he could have more good life to live.

I'm so sad.


ETA updated at bottom

Message edited 8/15/2011 1:26:56 PM.

Re: Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

Is there any treatment other than surgery?




My dog takes a special medicine because they found crystals in her urine which can lead to stones. Maybe that would help your dog?

Re: Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

Posted by dita

Is there any treatment other than surgery?




My dog takes a special medicine because they found crystals in her urine which can lead to stones. Maybe that would help your dog?

Re: Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

14 is very old for a dog. I would be very nervous putting him through a surgery and anesthesia. Such a hard decision to make...

Re: Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

First...

It is a very tough decision to make, and one I can absolutely understand.

When I had the decision of surgery on my 13yr old lab, my vet was very straight forward and said that due to his age, it will not improve his quality of life. She advised against the surgery due to his age.

He wasn't in any pain (at that time) and I decided against surgery...I trusted my vet's judgement and I got 6 more months with him before I had to put him down.

Is he in any pain? Is his quality of life OK (asside from old age)?

Seems cliche to say, but listen to what your gut is saying... and listen to your furbaby... he'll give you the help you need to make such a decision.

Re: Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

My parents' cat had this a few times. She is on a special diet and she's been medicated. I think she may have needed surgery once. I agree that putting a dog under anasthesia at 14 is risky in itself.

Re: Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

We don't think he is in pain... he is not whimpering but in the last few days has peed a lot and peed blood today.

Otherwise, he's a happy dog, still plays with his stuffed animal toys when we give them to him, (he can't have them all the time because he eats them without supervision).

He still goes for all of his walks (albeit more slowly than he used to). He loves his daily bone and eats all of his dinner.

He is stiff and can't play the way he used to but we think he has a pretty good quality of life right now.

dctead, did your dog have stones?

It's so hard.. he's such a good dog and I love him so much.

We don't want to put him in more pain but we don't want to end his life before it is time.

Re: Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

As long as they could effectively manage his pain post-op, I personally would do it. I would prepare myself that perhaps he wouldn't make it out of the surgery, but in that case it's kind of the same thing as if you put him down but I would want him to have a chance.

If the stones are causing/will cause him pain, then I wouldn't want to do nothing; and if he's still able to get around, just because he moves slower than he used to and is stiff, well, if I was an old person and had trouble getting around I would still want my ailments treated within reason to improve the quality of the life I had left.

Whatever you do, there's no "wrong" decision, and no one would judge you, you just have to make a decision you'll be able to live with, so try to be as sure as possible about what you decide. It's obvious you are putting what's best for your dog first, and it's hard to tell over the internet what you see in his condition every day, so take our suggestions with a grain of salt. I also agree I wouldn't want to put him through a lot of pain with surgery to get him through maybe a couple of months, but I feel like he might have more time than that, and if the recovery won't be terrible maybe it would be worth it. Whatever you do, I wish you luck because I've been in a similar situation with my 14 year old dog (and unfortunately nothing could be done), so I understand what it's like to be in that position... will be thinking of you and wishing you well.

Message edited 8/11/2011 3:23:19 PM.

Re: Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

Re: Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

I actually just made this exact decision about my dog. Same age, same problem. I opted not to have her have the surgery.

From what the vet explained it is a pretty extensive and long surgery. Right now my dog doesn't seem to be in any pain (the vet also said she probably isn't ). We had all the presurgical testing done before maing a decision (bloodword, chest xrays and an ekg). Everything came back perfect, the vet was actually shocked considering her age and clearedher for surgery.

To be honest I was almost hoping he would find a little something and not clear her so I wouldn't have to make the decision. In the end I decided it just wasn't worth the risk. While the vet said he thought she was healthy enough for surgery he did say that bc of her age there really was no guarantee. Also, he said it wouldn't be that as long as she came out of the surgery everyhting would fine. He said that for up to a few days after there would still be a chance of her passing. I just could not live with myself if something happened knowing I sort of chose to have her undergo surgery that wasn't an immeadiate life or death necessity.

I'm naive, I know I don't have another 10 years with my dog, but I feel like I do have a couple even with the bladder stones. I don't want to cut that short.

Sorry this got so long just wanted to give you all my reasoning. I hope it helps you to make a desicion. Whatever you decide will be the right choice for you and you dog. You know him best. Good luck! I will keep him and you in my thoughts and prayers!

Re: Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

Did the vet say what exactly would happen if he had this surgery? What would the outcome be? What will the outcome be if he doesn't have the surgery? What will his life be like? I think these are questions to ask.

My cat had to have emergency surgery a few years ago because of bladder stones which were blocking urine in his body, causing a build up of deadly toxins. He was only a year old, so he recovered immediately. The surgery was insanely expensive, but it was the best option for him to have the most comfortable life for the longest time. The stones could come back, but all has been well with him since then.

I'd do what will give him the most comfortable life for the longest amount of time possible.

Re: Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

I would do the surgery.
My Bruno has had it a few times.
He's only 10 but I can't imagine seeing more and more blood in the urine.
In general, dogs try really hard not to show pain.
People complain about how painful the stones can be.
I would hate the risk that he could pass while he's under or soon after but he also could at any time.
He may start urinating in places he shouldn't and that could be frustrating.
I wouldn't want to spend time left with him like that.
I'm also saying all of this not in your shoes so I'll shut up now.
I hope it works out for you no matter what you decide to do .
I really wish they could talk to us.

Re: Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

My dog has stones but is a female so I don't know anything about the stones in the urethra that u mentioned.

We opted to not have the surgery done. If it did come to that point though I also researched urohydropropulsion- and that's what we would do- again not sure how much that applies to a male dog. I have read that the surgery should be a last resort- first trying meds/ diet- then the urhydropropulsion- then the full on surgery/ clean out.

We have managed without either procedure for 5 years now with a prescription diet (Hills U/D). My dog is also 12- which is very old for her breed. So far so good.

Re: Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

Thank you all so much for your responses. They helped so much. I'm going to ask a lot more questions tomorrow. We were in such shock when she said "put him down" that our minds just went blank.

I'm going to ask about the meds and the urohydropropulsion.

She gave us three options:

1. He's old, so put him to sleep. It's a lot of trauma for an old dog. There's also no telling when the stone would actually block his urine, but it could be any time, and then he'd be in a lot of pain and he'd need emergency surgery or put to sleep.

2. Sugery option 1: She said that was what they'd start with and see if they could push them back up the urethra and then they'd open up his bladder and remove the stones.

3. Surgery option 2: If they can't get the stone out of his urethra, they will have to make a hole right above the stone and make a permanent hole in his "area" for him to pee out of. they'd then also have to open up the bladder.

Of course today, he seemed to have a lot more trouble getting up from laying down. He's probably in some pain, so maybe that's a factor, but he's also not whining or crying like he's in pain.

I'm so confused, and sad, and I can't stop crying my eyes out.

Re: Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

His bloodwork came back pretty normal/good. Liver enzymes were a little elevated (normal in old dogs) but kidneys good. She was more optimistic. So we are going to do it. Said it would be 1-1.5 hours of surgery and he has to stay overnight. Will give pain meds and antibiotics. Hopefully the flush will work & they can do easier surgery. Pray for us.

Re: UPDATED AT BOTTOM...Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

Many many

Re: UPDATED AT BOTTOM...Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

Re: UPDATED AT BOTTOM...Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

Re: UPDATED AT BOTTOM...Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

Re: UPDATED AT BOTTOM...Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

Re: UPDATED AT BOTTOM...Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

Re: UPDATED AT BOTTOM...Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

Good news on the blood work!
I hope he feels better real soon .

Re: UPDATED AT BOTTOM...Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

UPDATE!!

They were able to do the easier surgery--and they scooped out 28!!!! stones from his poor bladder. They did not have to do the bigger surgery because they were able to get all of the stones out of his urethra.

So, he is "resting comfortably" but hasn't gotten out of his cage yet. They said he was sleeping now, but they'll try to get him out and walk him a bit before they leave.

If he can walk, (and pee, tomorrow), he can come home.

I hope the worst is over, but I am very happy at the moment at this outcome.

Thank you so much for all of your advice and your prayers. I will keep you updated!!

Re: UPDATED AGAIN--POST-OP!!! UPDATED AT BOTTOM...Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

Woohoo, that's great to hear!

Re: UPDATED AGAIN--POST-OP!!! UPDATED AT BOTTOM...Bladder stones / surgery WWYD?

Great to hear!!