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2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

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nrthshgrl
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2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

A couple serving probation for the 2009 death of their toddler after they turned to prayer instead of a doctor could face new charges now that another son has died.

Herbert and Catherine Schaible belong to a fundamentalist Christian church that believes in faith healing. They lost their 8-month-old son, Brandon, last week after he suffered from diarrhea and breathing problems for at least a week, and stopped eating. Four years ago, another son died from bacterial pneumonia.

Prosecutors said Tuesday that a decision on charges will be made after they get the results of an autopsy.

Catherine Schaible's attorney, Mythri Jayaraman, cautioned against a rush to judgment, and said the couple are good parents deeply distraught over the loss of another child.

"There are way more questions than answers at this point. We haven't seen the autopsy report. We don't know the cause of death of this child," Jayaraman told The Associated Press. "What we do know is Mr. and Mrs. Schaible are distraught, they are grieving, they are tremendously sad about the loss of their most recent baby."

A man who answered the phone at a listing for Herbert Schaible declined to comment and hung up.

A jury convicted the Schaibles of involuntary manslaughter in the January 2009 death of their 2-year-old son, Kent. The boy's symptoms had included coughing, congestion, crankiness and a loss of appetite. His parents said he was eating and drinking until the last day, and they had thought he was getting better.

The Schaibles were sentenced to 10 years' probation.

At a hearing Monday, a judge told the couple they had violated the terms of their probation, noting the Schaibles had told investigators that they prayed to God to make Brandon well instead of seeking medical attention.

"You did that once, and the consequences were tragic," Philadelphia Common Pleas Judge Benjamin Lerner said, according to the Philadelphia Daily News.

Prosecutors on Monday sought to have the couple jailed, but Lerner permitted them to remain free because their seven other children had been placed in foster care.

"He feels they are a danger to their children — not to the community, but to their own children," Assistant District Attorney Joanne Pescatore, who prosecuted the couple in 2010, said Tuesday.

Herbert Schaible, 44, and his 43-year-old wife grew up in the First Century Gospel Church in northeast Philadelphia and have served as teachers there. The church's website has a sermon titled "Healing — From God or Medicine?" that quotes Bible verses purportedly forbidding Christians from visiting doctors or taking medicine.

"It is a definite sin to trust in medical help and pills; and it is real faith to trust on the Name of Jesus for healing," says the message, from last May.

A phone message left with the church on Tuesday was not immediately returned.

The church's pastor said in 2010 that the couple had never received medical care themselves beyond the help of a lay midwife who attends home births.

The Schaibles did take their children for medical checkups as required by their probation, according to Jayaraman, the defense attorney. Jayaraman said that Brandon was checked by a doctor when he was 10 days old, but she did not know whether the child had seen a doctor since.

"Nobody argues that these aren't very loving, nurturing parents," she said Tuesday. "Whether their religion had anything to do with the death of their baby, we don't know."

ABC News

Posted 4/24/13 10:26 AM
 
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nrthshgrl
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Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

I'm not sure how I feel about them being charged. I know many parents who have waited a week before seeing a pediatrician for symptoms that they didn't think were severe.

Posted 4/24/13 10:28 AM
 

2BadSoSad
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Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

i am sorry, they are assholes.

That poor baby SUFFERED.

Posted 4/24/13 10:28 AM
 

neener1211
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J

Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

Just my opinion, but they should be sterilized.

Posted 4/24/13 10:29 AM
 

AngnShaun
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Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

He stopped eating... i think anyone would bring the kid to the Dr at that point!

Posted 4/24/13 10:30 AM
 

nrthshgrl
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Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

Posted by AngnShaun

He stopped eating... i think anyone would bring the kid to the Dr at that point!



It said that his parents said he was eating & drinking until his last day?

Posted 4/24/13 10:32 AM
 

AngnShaun
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Ang

Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

Posted by nrthshgrl

Posted by AngnShaun

He stopped eating... i think anyone would bring the kid to the Dr at that point!



It said that his parents said he was eating & drinking until his last day?



"Herbert and Catherine Schaible belong to a fundamentalist Christian church that believes in faith healing. They lost their 8-month-old son, Brandon, last week after he suffered from diarrhea and breathing problems for at least a week, and stopped eating."

Posted 4/24/13 10:32 AM
 

lynnd126
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Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

Posted by nrthshgrl

Posted by AngnShaun

He stopped eating... i think anyone would bring the kid to the Dr at that point!



It said that his parents said he was eating & drinking until his last day?



The first kid that died was eating.

Posted 4/24/13 10:36 AM
 

MrsProfessor
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2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

Reminds me of that Law and Order episode with a similar storyline.

Poor kids. As an asthmatic, if my kid ever had trouble breathing, I'd be in the car and off to the ER immediately. I can't believe they just let it go.

Posted 4/24/13 10:36 AM
 

Disneygirl
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D

Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

Horrible, they failed the most simple task of parenting IMO.

Posted 4/24/13 10:40 AM
 

StaceyWill
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2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

Just terrible. I hope they don't have any more children.

Posted 4/24/13 10:43 AM
 

ElizaRags35
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Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

Chat Icon Chat Icon Chat Icon

Posted 4/24/13 10:45 AM
 

Katareen
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2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

How could you sit and watch your baby suffer like that??

May those poor babies RIP

Posted 4/24/13 10:49 AM
 

NervousNell
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Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

Sickos.
Sick M-Fers
I am sorry.
You have to be a little sick in the head to let your child die like that because of your religious beliefs.
People like this need to be sterlized by the government ASAP.

Posted 4/24/13 10:53 AM
 

rojerono
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Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

See.. I think they are misguided. I admire their fortitude, their absolute faith.. but I do believe that they are following the thought of MEN not God. God provides – sometimes in the form of miracles, sometimes in the form of medicine, sometimes in the form of a person who appears in your life in just the right time. The bible has a million passages that can be interpreted to mean that faithful do not need doctors or medicine – but people forget that these passages are taken from texts written in long dead languages and have been interpreted and re-interpreted by MEN over and again.

Either way.. I think it’s a tragic. My heart breaks for them and I hope they are able to heal from their losses.

Posted 4/24/13 10:54 AM
 

halfbaked
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Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

I feel like they are mentally incapable of raising children. I understand they went on faith, but this is to the point of insanity. It resulted in not one but two children's deaths. I don't think they should be charged criminally since I don't think there was any intent to do harm, but if they have any other kids, they should be taken away from them.

ETA: But then, I guess involuntary manslaughter is exactly that- no intent to do harm, but the result is the same either way. Chat Icon I still say jail isn't the right place for them, but they can't be allowed any more children to harm.

Message edited 4/24/2013 11:03:54 AM.

Posted 4/24/13 11:02 AM
 

rojerono
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Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

I blame the church more than the couple TBH.

A lot of these fundamentalist churches are very cult like and have convinced their followers that disobedience will result in a curse from God. They are operating from the idea that they are protecting the eternal lives and souls of their children - even over their physical bodies. They honestly and truly believe this. The idea that their children would suffer an eternity - separated from God - is far more frightening to them than anything else.

I know it's difficult to understand.. but it's not that they are bad people. They GENUINELY and TRULY believe what they have been taught and they are doing what they feel is best for their children. When they know better they will do better.

I hate the idea of government interference in this kind of case. It becomes a slippery slope..

Message edited 4/24/2013 11:19:39 AM.

Posted 4/24/13 11:17 AM
 

AllyMally
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Alyson

2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

My question is this. How is this any different then a Jehovah's Witness refusing blood transfusions? I think these are deeply religious people that meant no harm to their children. There are a lot of unknowns from this article so I am not judging them. I know I have waited to take the kids to the doctor before. Faith is a powerful thing as is religion. I don't think people should be punished for their belief's IF they are also educated in medical help.

Posted 4/24/13 11:19 AM
 

MorningCuppaCoffee
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Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

If an agency can be held legally responsible for not doing anything if a patient falls, then the parents should be held responsible for not seeking medical help for their child.

JMO.

Posted 4/24/13 11:22 AM
 

JDubs
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Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

Posted by MorningCuppaCoffee

If an agency can be held legally responsible for not doing anything if a patient falls, then the parents should be held responsible for not seeking medical help for their child.

JMO.



ITA

Posted 4/24/13 11:23 AM
 

stinger
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Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

Posted by rojerono

I blame the church more than the couple TBH.

A lot of these fundamentalist churches are very cult like and have convinced their followers that disobedience will result in a curse from God. They are operating from the idea that they are protecting the eternal lives and souls of their children - even over their physical bodies. They honestly and truly believe this. The idea that their children would suffer an eternity - separated from God - is far more frightening to them than anything else.

I know it's difficult to understand.. but it's not that they are bad people. They GENUINELY and TRULY believe what they have been taught and they are doing what they feel is best for their children. When they know better they will do better.

I hate the idea of government interference in this kind of case. It becomes a slippery slope..



The first thing that came to mind was "do you only blame Al Qaida for 9/11 and not the actual men who committed the acts?" Yes in both cases the criminals are brainwashed but these parents should be charged IMO

Posted 4/24/13 11:24 AM
 

Domino
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Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

Posted by rojerono

See.. I think they are misguided. I admire their fortitude, their absolute faith.. but I do believe that they are following the thought of MEN not God. God provides – sometimes in the form of miracles, sometimes in the form of medicine, sometimes in the form of a person who appears in your life in just the right time. The bible has a million passages that can be interpreted to mean that faithful do not need doctors or medicine – but people forget that these passages are taken from texts written in long dead languages and have been interpreted and re-interpreted by MEN over and again.

Either way.. I think it’s a tragic. My heart breaks for them and I hope they are able to heal from their losses.



I agree. These things always remind me of that joke about the man ontop of the roof with the flood waters rising. He turns away help three times saying God will save him. When he ultimately drowns and meets God he asks why he didnt save him and God says, "What do you want, I sent you two boats and a helicopter."

I believe that God has created us and given us the ability to think and reason. We have been given the means to create medicine that can heal us. I feel terrible that this couple has fallen to this cult like belief and have paid the ultimate price of losing both their children.Chat Icon

Posted 4/24/13 11:36 AM
 

saraH
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Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

I called my ped when dd was on her 2nd day of diarrhea. She was fine in another day or so, but I wouldn't let that go for a week.

That poor baby suffered and that is just inhumane.

Posted 4/24/13 11:37 AM
 

rojerono
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Jeannie

Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

Posted by stinger

Posted by rojerono

I blame the church more than the couple TBH.

A lot of these fundamentalist churches are very cult like and have convinced their followers that disobedience will result in a curse from God. They are operating from the idea that they are protecting the eternal lives and souls of their children - even over their physical bodies. They honestly and truly believe this. The idea that their children would suffer an eternity - separated from God - is far more frightening to them than anything else.

I know it's difficult to understand.. but it's not that they are bad people. They GENUINELY and TRULY believe what they have been taught and they are doing what they feel is best for their children. When they know better they will do better.

I hate the idea of government interference in this kind of case. It becomes a slippery slope..



The first thing that came to mind was "do you only blame Al Qaida for 9/11 and not the actual men who committed the acts?" Yes in both cases the criminals are brainwashed but these parents should be charged IMO



If these parents had been responsible for mass murder then they should be in jail. If they intentionally killed their child to 'drive out demons' then they should be in jail. They are not guilty of an ACTION - they are guilty of an inaction. They are guilty of harming their OWN child through INACTION. To ME that is incredibly different than a sect that teaches people to act out against others who feel differently than they do.

I do NOT think they should be sterilized. I don't believe the government has a right to get their hands on our reproductive organs. Not to tell me that I can't have an abortion and not to tell me that I can't have children.

That said.. I'm not against them losing their rights to make health decisions for their children.

Posted 4/24/13 11:42 AM
 

meloyellow
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Member since 3/13

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Re: 2nd Child of Pa. Couple Dies After Only Praying

Posted by rojerono

See.. I think they are misguided. I admire their fortitude, their absolute faith.. but I do believe that they are following the thought of MEN not God. God provides – sometimes in the form of miracles, sometimes in the form of medicine, sometimes in the form of a person who appears in your life in just the right time. The bible has a million passages that can be interpreted to mean that faithful do not need doctors or medicine – but people forget that these passages are taken from texts written in long dead languages and have been interpreted and re-interpreted by MEN over and again.

Either way.. I think it’s a tragic. My heart breaks for them and I hope they are able to heal from their losses.



I agree. I guess my faith isn't as strong bc there is no way in hell I could just throw my hands up into the air and say "god do as you will" if my child were dying. Those kids had to be pretty bad off to both die from what started as common illness. Not even a little vicks? some natural herbs? ANYTHING?

I'm not sure how I feel about the government getting involved. On one hand I feel it is dangerous for government to get involved in cases of religious faith...BUT then I think of all the cases of cults who coerced people to their death...or people who believe in human sacrifice. Where do we draw the line between practicing faith and murder?

Message edited 4/24/2013 11:58:56 AM.

Posted 4/24/13 11:58 AM
 
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