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HelenZ
So worth the wait :)
Member since 10/07 2862 total posts
Name:
Helen
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mrsej
palin won't be president unless mccain dies, which i sincerely doubt will happen. Obama is going to be president - that freaks the crap out of me.
i know  
Seriously, we cannot tell the future. They both can be great or they both can suck. Do we really know what the future will hold?
You are absolutely right, except with Obama I will be paying alot of money for that happiness or sadness. If his economic policy wasn't so radical and insane, I would at least listen to his other ideas, but I can't get past the taxes. i can't - he calls it fair, but how is it fair to me and my DH who are busting our azzes everyday, have student loans larger than some people's mortgages and went to school forever.
I have student loans. I don't make a lot of money, neither does DH (Teacher and a case manager for those who have special needs). But to me it's just not fair that I have kids who can't afford school supplies, whose parents work 2 and 3 jobs to feed them. Overall I believe in capitalism... but at this rate we're going to have 2 classes... the haves and the have nots.
And frankly, with our two post-graduate degrees, we'll probably be a have not under mccain's plan.
But do you think that 250,000 is the right cutoff? I will be that 5% facing the highest tax increase in history. We are not making $500,00 or a million. So are we supposed to support the whole country? Am I supposed to be penalized b/c you chose to be teachers and case managers?
you chose to rack up $100,000 in loans...
I'll keep my poor career choice in mind when I watch the HS students in my area drive to school in the BMW's bought by their parents that make $300k a year.
they probably make more than 300K a year - i drive a ford and my DH a 2001 honda - you are exactly right, we chose to rack up loans, we chose to work long hours, we chose to further our education. People chose not to further their education, people chose what hours to work, people chose their jobs. Point is, people make choices, but why will I be penalized and people that make other choices not penalized.
please realize not everyone has such vast choices. I for one supported my household after my dad died in my senior year of high school, so I was off working full time and long hours every day (usually 9-10 hrs) right out of H.S......so not everyone has a choice or luxury to go to college right away and not work. Despite not finishing college, I've done very well financially b/c I fought for everything I have, I work for a large financial firm, and I doubt most of the people I work with even realize I didn't finish college. Just because someone didn't go to law school or med school doesn't mean that they should or should not be penalized. Some people choose a profession simply because they enjoy it, if you chose a profession that cost over $100K in college loans than so be it. Please don't assume you know everyone's situation out there or that those that didn't make the same choices as you are simply lazy. 
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Posted 10/15/08 11:25 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
stickydust
Now a mommy of 2!!!
Member since 4/06 3164 total posts
Name:
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Re: Debate '08
This debate we are having, in a nutshell, is one of my problems with the policies espoused by Obama. I feel it is creating a culture of "class clashes" - I feel he has exploited this concept at the expense of pitting us against each other for his own gain. It is going to be this constant debate between the people who make more than $250 and those that make less. And of course Warren Buffet sees nothing wrong with paying more - but there is a HUGE $$$$$$ difference between he and I and I do not think we should be lumped together in this tax bracket
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:26 PM |
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Palebride
I am an amazing bakist
Member since 5/05 13673 total posts
Name:
Lori
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by dm24angel
I make Nothing right now, I'm a SAHM and my husband makes enough for us to live on , thats about it...But If I have to pay more taxes so Seniors dont, or So I can provide for others who have less....
SO BE IT...thats life and I hope in return to get it back in return if I so need it.
I think you've hit on a fundamental difference between people here....some people think about the overall picture...others think about themselves.
I know where I stand on the issue, and I can sleep at night because of it!
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:26 PM |
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dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by LoriH
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mrsej
palin won't be president unless mccain dies, which i sincerely doubt will happen. Obama is going to be president - that freaks the crap out of me.
i know
Seriously, we cannot tell the future. They both can be great or they both can suck. Do we really know what the future will hold?
You are absolutely right, except with Obama I will be paying alot of money for that happiness or sadness. If his economic policy wasn't so radical and insane, I would at least listen to his other ideas, but I can't get past the taxes. i can't - he calls it fair, but how is it fair to me and my DH who are busting our azzes everyday, have student loans larger than some people's mortgages and went to school forever.
I have student loans. I don't make a lot of money, neither does DH (Teacher and a case manager for those who have special needs). But to me it's just not fair that I have kids who can't afford school supplies, whose parents work 2 and 3 jobs to feed them. Overall I believe in capitalism... but at this rate we're going to have 2 classes... the haves and the have nots.
And frankly, with our two post-graduate degrees, we'll probably be a have not under mccain's plan.
But do you think that 250,000 is the right cutoff? I will be that 5% facing the highest tax increase in history. We are not making $500,00 or a million. So are we supposed to support the whole country? Am I supposed to be penalized b/c you chose to be teachers and case managers?
you chose to rack up $100,000 in loans...
I'll keep my poor career choice in mind when I watch the HS students in my area drive to school in the BMW's bought by their parents that make $300k a year.
they probably make more than 300K a year - i drive a ford and my DH a 2001 honda - you are exactly right, we chose to rack up loans, we chose to work long hours, we chose to further our education. People chose not to further their education, people chose what hours to work, people chose their jobs. Point is, people make choices, but why will I be penalized and people that make other choices not penalized.
I do not think that most people if given the choice would decide not to further their education. Not everyone has the opportunity to make this choice. Furthering your education also does not always lead to a bigger paycheck.
Someone WILL always have to be the dishwasher or who will wash the dishes.
Nto everyone CAN become a Dr. Its simply not possible...so lets switch it around and say....with great reward comes great sacrifice...means the same thing no?
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:26 PM |
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wannabemom
look who's freshly baked!
Member since 12/07 7364 total posts
Name:
aka marriedinportjeff
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mrsej
palin won't be president unless mccain dies, which i sincerely doubt will happen. Obama is going to be president - that freaks the crap out of me.
i know
Seriously, we cannot tell the future. They both can be great or they both can suck. Do we really know what the future will hold?
You are absolutely right, except with Obama I will be paying alot of money for that happiness or sadness. If his economic policy wasn't so radical and insane, I would at least listen to his other ideas, but I can't get past the taxes. i can't - he calls it fair, but how is it fair to me and my DH who are busting our azzes everyday, have student loans larger than some people's mortgages and went to school forever.
I have student loans. I don't make a lot of money, neither does DH (Teacher and a case manager for those who have special needs). But to me it's just not fair that I have kids who can't afford school supplies, whose parents work 2 and 3 jobs to feed them. Overall I believe in capitalism... but at this rate we're going to have 2 classes... the haves and the have nots.
And frankly, with our two post-graduate degrees, we'll probably be a have not under mccain's plan.
But do you think that 250,000 is the right cutoff? I will be that 5% facing the highest tax increase in history. We are not making $500,00 or a million. So are we supposed to support the whole country? Am I supposed to be penalized b/c you chose to be teachers and case managers?
you chose to rack up $100,000 in loans...
I'll keep my poor career choice in mind when I watch the HS students in my area drive to school in the BMW's bought by their parents that make $300k a year.
they probably make more than 300K a year - i drive a ford and my DH a 2001 honda - you are exactly right, we chose to rack up loans, we chose to work long hours, we chose to further our education. People chose not to further their education, people chose what hours to work, people chose their jobs. Point is, people make choices, but why will I be penalized and people that make other choices not penalized.
I'm not going to get into the tax debate... but for the record....
I have a PhD and do gov't funded research.... and I find this last comment a bit  (while I suspect and hope you didn't mean it that way). Ya know, income and the degree of effort people put into their education and careers are NOT directly proportional by any means.
I make well under six figures (with a BS in bio and physical anthropology and a PhD in molecular biology and 3 years of post-grad training, and a faculty position). Needless to say, my hours are LONG, despite the low income. So, there are many people who work very very hard and have invested in their education at least as much as you yet don't lead the charmed life of a 250k+ income.
It's rather unfair to portray people who earn less as being less ambitious as those who earn more. many times, dare I say, they forego a high-income career track in order to select a career that may have a smaller impact on personal finances yet a larger impact on society.
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:27 PM |
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LittleBlueBug
Happy Mommy
Member since 9/06 4074 total posts
Name:
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by Beth1210
Posted by Palebride
Posted by mrsej
Point is, people make choices, but why will I be penalized and people that make other choices not penalized.
Because people have to pay taxes. And there has to be some sort of a cutoff. Not everyone is going to be happy with any plan. But you have to know that when you make more money, you pay more taxes.....that's just how it works!
I don't get it
people want to make more money
but pay less taxes
it doesn't work that way
no one like taxes- but the people that make the most- should pay the most
why should the people that make the least shoulder the burden?
I will never forget that Warren Buffet said his assistant pays a greater percentage of her paycheck in taxes- the he does- sorry but that is wrong
I don't think it's that really. I think that some just assume that people making that amount are living in a large house on a hill or something and do not realize that they may have debt too.
Look, EVERYONE'S taxes are going up...EVERYONE. It would be foolish to believe otherwise. I honestly feel that there should a flat tax and the small businesses should be exempt.
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:27 PM |
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Beth
The Key to your new home....
Member since 2/06 24849 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by mrsej
I am well aware that people that make more should pay more taxes. However, the fact that Obama is willing to impose the largest tax increase in history on a couple who makes more than $250K is a little frightening, especially on a couple who barely makes more than 250K.
you'll live- be thankful that you make that much
there are people in this country that barely make enough money to feed their families
I will save my sympathy for them
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:28 PM |
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mrsej
The cutest!
Member since 1/07 2495 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mrsej
palin won't be president unless mccain dies, which i sincerely doubt will happen. Obama is going to be president - that freaks the crap out of me.
i know
Seriously, we cannot tell the future. They both can be great or they both can suck. Do we really know what the future will hold?
You are absolutely right, except with Obama I will be paying alot of money for that happiness or sadness. If his economic policy wasn't so radical and insane, I would at least listen to his other ideas, but I can't get past the taxes. i can't - he calls it fair, but how is it fair to me and my DH who are busting our azzes everyday, have student loans larger than some people's mortgages and went to school forever.
I have student loans. I don't make a lot of money, neither does DH (Teacher and a case manager for those who have special needs). But to me it's just not fair that I have kids who can't afford school supplies, whose parents work 2 and 3 jobs to feed them. Overall I believe in capitalism... but at this rate we're going to have 2 classes... the haves and the have nots.
And frankly, with our two post-graduate degrees, we'll probably be a have not under mccain's plan.
But do you think that 250,000 is the right cutoff? I will be that 5% facing the highest tax increase in history. We are not making $500,00 or a million. So are we supposed to support the whole country? Am I supposed to be penalized b/c you chose to be teachers and case managers?
you chose to rack up $100,000 in loans...
I'll keep my poor career choice in mind when I watch the HS students in my area drive to school in the BMW's bought by their parents that make $300k a year.
they probably make more than 300K a year - i drive a ford and my DH a 2001 honda - you are exactly right, we chose to rack up loans, we chose to work long hours, we chose to further our education. People chose not to further their education, people chose what hours to work, people chose their jobs. Point is, people make choices, but why will I be penalized and people that make other choices not penalized.
Ya know what, I'm not going to argue with someone who is ignorant to the hours and the heart I put into my job.
Enjoy your money. Just think about the kids in my class who can't afford glasses so that they can see the board while you do.
I guess you don't get the point either...i am not talking about any profession specifically...
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:29 PM |
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bluegreen08
LIF Adolescent
Member since 10/07 574 total posts
Name:
a
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Re: Debate '08
For what it's worth... I am extremely responsible with my money. DH and I are 24 and have a year's worth of DH's take home pay in the bank, no credit card debt, paid off DH's student loans and I am at a top 20 law school on a full scholarship.
We will make $250k+ combined after I graduate and I still completely support Obama. Even if it raises my taxes, I don't believe anyone will be able to cut taxes given the bailout and our current economic situation and I'm not 100% selfish. I agree with Obama's policies more.
Edit: yes lawyers make more, but I think teachers and researchers and social workers and other "lesser paid" jobs are equally important in the greater scheme of our economy.
Message edited 10/15/2008 11:30:39 PM.
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:29 PM |
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VirginiaDeb
Don't eat me, hippo!
Member since 5/05 9252 total posts
Name:
Deb
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mrsej
palin won't be president unless mccain dies, which i sincerely doubt will happen. Obama is going to be president - that freaks the crap out of me.
i know
Seriously, we cannot tell the future. They both can be great or they both can suck. Do we really know what the future will hold?
You are absolutely right, except with Obama I will be paying alot of money for that happiness or sadness. If his economic policy wasn't so radical and insane, I would at least listen to his other ideas, but I can't get past the taxes. i can't - he calls it fair, but how is it fair to me and my DH who are busting our azzes everyday, have student loans larger than some people's mortgages and went to school forever.
I have student loans. I don't make a lot of money, neither does DH (Teacher and a case manager for those who have special needs). But to me it's just not fair that I have kids who can't afford school supplies, whose parents work 2 and 3 jobs to feed them. Overall I believe in capitalism... but at this rate we're going to have 2 classes... the haves and the have nots.
And frankly, with our two post-graduate degrees, we'll probably be a have not under mccain's plan.
But do you think that 250,000 is the right cutoff? I will be that 5% facing the highest tax increase in history. We are not making $500,00 or a million. So are we supposed to support the whole country? Am I supposed to be penalized b/c you chose to be teachers and case managers?
you chose to rack up $100,000 in loans...
I'll keep my poor career choice in mind when I watch the HS students in my area drive to school in the BMW's bought by their parents that make $300k a year.
they probably make more than 300K a year - i drive a ford and my DH a 2001 honda - you are exactly right, we chose to rack up loans, we chose to work long hours, we chose to further our education. People chose not to further their education, people chose what hours to work, people chose their jobs. Point is, people make choices, but why will I be penalized and people that make other choices not penalized.
Ya know what, I'm not going to argue with someone who is ignorant to the hours and the heart I put into my job.
Enjoy your money. Just think about the kids in my class who can't afford glasses so that they can see the board while you do.
I guess you don't get the point either...i am not talking about any profession specifically...
Then maybe you shouldn't have called out my profession specifically.
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:29 PM |
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CallaLily
Thank you, Saint Gerard!
Member since 10/07 4937 total posts
Name:
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mrsej
palin won't be president unless mccain dies, which i sincerely doubt will happen. Obama is going to be president - that freaks the crap out of me.
i know
Seriously, we cannot tell the future. They both can be great or they both can suck. Do we really know what the future will hold?
You are absolutely right, except with Obama I will be paying alot of money for that happiness or sadness. If his economic policy wasn't so radical and insane, I would at least listen to his other ideas, but I can't get past the taxes. i can't - he calls it fair, but how is it fair to me and my DH who are busting our azzes everyday, have student loans larger than some people's mortgages and went to school forever.
I have student loans. I don't make a lot of money, neither does DH (Teacher and a case manager for those who have special needs). But to me it's just not fair that I have kids who can't afford school supplies, whose parents work 2 and 3 jobs to feed them. Overall I believe in capitalism... but at this rate we're going to have 2 classes... the haves and the have nots.
And frankly, with our two post-graduate degrees, we'll probably be a have not under mccain's plan.
But do you think that 250,000 is the right cutoff? I will be that 5% facing the highest tax increase in history. We are not making $500,00 or a million. So are we supposed to support the whole country? Am I supposed to be penalized b/c you chose to be teachers and case managers?
you chose to rack up $100,000 in loans...
I'll keep my poor career choice in mind when I watch the HS students in my area drive to school in the BMW's bought by their parents that make $300k a year.
they probably make more than 300K a year - i drive a ford and my DH a 2001 honda - you are exactly right, we chose to rack up loans, we chose to work long hours, we chose to further our education. People chose not to further their education, people chose what hours to work, people chose their jobs. Point is, people make choices, but why will I be penalized and people that make other choices not penalized.
Ya know what, I'm not going to argue with someone who is ignorant to the hours and the heart I put into my job.
Enjoy your money. Just think about the kids in my class who can't afford glasses so that they can see the board while you do.
I guess you don't get the point either...i am not talking about any profession specifically...
I'm sorry, but did you not specifically mention teachers and case managers?
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:30 PM |
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Palebride
I am an amazing bakist
Member since 5/05 13673 total posts
Name:
Lori
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by Beth1210
Posted by mrsej
I am well aware that people that make more should pay more taxes. However, the fact that Obama is willing to impose the largest tax increase in history on a couple who makes more than $250K is a little frightening, especially on a couple who barely makes more than 250K.
you'll live- be thankful that you make that much
there are people in this country that barely make enough money to feed their families
I will save my sympathy for them
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:30 PM |
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VirginiaDeb
Don't eat me, hippo!
Member since 5/05 9252 total posts
Name:
Deb
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by Palebride
Posted by Beth1210
Posted by mrsej
I am well aware that people that make more should pay more taxes. However, the fact that Obama is willing to impose the largest tax increase in history on a couple who makes more than $250K is a little frightening, especially on a couple who barely makes more than 250K.
you'll live- be thankful that you make that much
there are people in this country that barely make enough money to feed their families
I will save my sympathy for them
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:31 PM |
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mrsej
The cutest!
Member since 1/07 2495 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by wannabemom
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mrsej
palin won't be president unless mccain dies, which i sincerely doubt will happen. Obama is going to be president - that freaks the crap out of me.
i know
Seriously, we cannot tell the future. They both can be great or they both can suck. Do we really know what the future will hold?
You are absolutely right, except with Obama I will be paying alot of money for that happiness or sadness. If his economic policy wasn't so radical and insane, I would at least listen to his other ideas, but I can't get past the taxes. i can't - he calls it fair, but how is it fair to me and my DH who are busting our azzes everyday, have student loans larger than some people's mortgages and went to school forever.
I have student loans. I don't make a lot of money, neither does DH (Teacher and a case manager for those who have special needs). But to me it's just not fair that I have kids who can't afford school supplies, whose parents work 2 and 3 jobs to feed them. Overall I believe in capitalism... but at this rate we're going to have 2 classes... the haves and the have nots.
And frankly, with our two post-graduate degrees, we'll probably be a have not under mccain's plan.
But do you think that 250,000 is the right cutoff? I will be that 5% facing the highest tax increase in history. We are not making $500,00 or a million. So are we supposed to support the whole country? Am I supposed to be penalized b/c you chose to be teachers and case managers?
you chose to rack up $100,000 in loans...
I'll keep my poor career choice in mind when I watch the HS students in my area drive to school in the BMW's bought by their parents that make $300k a year.
they probably make more than 300K a year - i drive a ford and my DH a 2001 honda - you are exactly right, we chose to rack up loans, we chose to work long hours, we chose to further our education. People chose not to further their education, people chose what hours to work, people chose their jobs. Point is, people make choices, but why will I be penalized and people that make other choices not penalized.
I'm not going to get into the tax debate... but for the record....
I have a PhD and do gov't funded research.... and I find this last comment a bit (while I suspect and hope you didn't mean it that way). Ya know, income and the degree of effort people put into their education and careers are NOT directly proportional by any means.
I make well under six figures (with a BS in bio and physical anthropology and a PhD in molecular biology and 3 years of post-grad training, and a faculty position). Needless to say, my hours are LONG, despite the low income. So, there are many people who work very very hard and have invested in their education at least as much as you yet don't lead the charmed life of a 250k+ income.
It's rather unfair to portray people who earn less as being less ambitious as those who earn more. many times, dare I say, they forego a high-income career track in order to select a career that may have a smaller impact on personal finances yet a larger impact on society.
I totally agree and that was my point about choices. I work for the public sector, my DH the private. I am not saying because you make less, you are less ambitious.
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:31 PM |
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mrsej
The cutest!
Member since 1/07 2495 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mrsej
palin won't be president unless mccain dies, which i sincerely doubt will happen. Obama is going to be president - that freaks the crap out of me.
i know
Seriously, we cannot tell the future. They both can be great or they both can suck. Do we really know what the future will hold?
You are absolutely right, except with Obama I will be paying alot of money for that happiness or sadness. If his economic policy wasn't so radical and insane, I would at least listen to his other ideas, but I can't get past the taxes. i can't - he calls it fair, but how is it fair to me and my DH who are busting our azzes everyday, have student loans larger than some people's mortgages and went to school forever.
I have student loans. I don't make a lot of money, neither does DH (Teacher and a case manager for those who have special needs). But to me it's just not fair that I have kids who can't afford school supplies, whose parents work 2 and 3 jobs to feed them. Overall I believe in capitalism... but at this rate we're going to have 2 classes... the haves and the have nots.
And frankly, with our two post-graduate degrees, we'll probably be a have not under mccain's plan.
But do you think that 250,000 is the right cutoff? I will be that 5% facing the highest tax increase in history. We are not making $500,00 or a million. So are we supposed to support the whole country? Am I supposed to be penalized b/c you chose to be teachers and case managers?
you chose to rack up $100,000 in loans...
I'll keep my poor career choice in mind when I watch the HS students in my area drive to school in the BMW's bought by their parents that make $300k a year.
they probably make more than 300K a year - i drive a ford and my DH a 2001 honda - you are exactly right, we chose to rack up loans, we chose to work long hours, we chose to further our education. People chose not to further their education, people chose what hours to work, people chose their jobs. Point is, people make choices, but why will I be penalized and people that make other choices not penalized.
Ya know what, I'm not going to argue with someone who is ignorant to the hours and the heart I put into my job.
Enjoy your money. Just think about the kids in my class who can't afford glasses so that they can see the board while you do.
I guess you don't get the point either...i am not talking about any profession specifically...
Then maybe you shouldn't have called out my profession specifically.
B/c you listed those two specifically.
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:32 PM |
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LittleBlueBug
Happy Mommy
Member since 9/06 4074 total posts
Name:
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Re: Debate '08
I'll let my dad know...I'm sure he'll sleep better at night.
I just hope that when he needs diabetes testing supplies and my mom needs her seizure and anti-coagulant medication when they have to leave their home and have to live on the street there will be someone there to help them out
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:33 PM |
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MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.
Member since 5/05 26170 total posts
Name:
MrsERod™®
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Re: Debate '08
teachers and case workers were used as examples, so yes, you were being specific
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:34 PM |
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stickydust
Now a mommy of 2!!!
Member since 4/06 3164 total posts
Name:
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by wannabemom
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mrsej
palin won't be president unless mccain dies, which i sincerely doubt will happen. Obama is going to be president - that freaks the crap out of me.
i know
Seriously, we cannot tell the future. They both can be great or they both can suck. Do we really know what the future will hold?
You are absolutely right, except with Obama I will be paying alot of money for that happiness or sadness. If his economic policy wasn't so radical and insane, I would at least listen to his other ideas, but I can't get past the taxes. i can't - he calls it fair, but how is it fair to me and my DH who are busting our azzes everyday, have student loans larger than some people's mortgages and went to school forever.
I have student loans. I don't make a lot of money, neither does DH (Teacher and a case manager for those who have special needs). But to me it's just not fair that I have kids who can't afford school supplies, whose parents work 2 and 3 jobs to feed them. Overall I believe in capitalism... but at this rate we're going to have 2 classes... the haves and the have nots.
And frankly, with our two post-graduate degrees, we'll probably be a have not under mccain's plan.
But do you think that 250,000 is the right cutoff? I will be that 5% facing the highest tax increase in history. We are not making $500,00 or a million. So are we supposed to support the whole country? Am I supposed to be penalized b/c you chose to be teachers and case managers?
you chose to rack up $100,000 in loans...
I'll keep my poor career choice in mind when I watch the HS students in my area drive to school in the BMW's bought by their parents that make $300k a year.
they probably make more than 300K a year - i drive a ford and my DH a 2001 honda - you are exactly right, we chose to rack up loans, we chose to work long hours, we chose to further our education. People chose not to further their education, people chose what hours to work, people chose their jobs. Point is, people make choices, but why will I be penalized and people that make other choices not penalized.
I'm not going to get into the tax debate... but for the record....
I have a PhD and do gov't funded research.... and I find this last comment a bit (while I suspect and hope you didn't mean it that way). Ya know, income and the degree of effort people put into their education and careers are NOT directly proportional by any means.
I make well under six figures (with a BS in bio and physical anthropology and a PhD in molecular biology and 3 years of post-grad training, and a faculty position). Needless to say, my hours are LONG, despite the low income. So, there are many people who work very very hard and have invested in their education at least as much as you yet don't lead the charmed life of a 250k+ income.
It's rather unfair to portray people who earn less as being less ambitious as those who earn more. many times, dare I say, they forego a high-income career track in order to select a career that may have a smaller impact on personal finances yet a larger impact on society.
I don't think Mrsej was saying this at all. I think what she was saying is that it is all a CHOICE. For better or for worse that choice is yours (the general you) and you take all the good and the bad that come with making that choice. It is about personal responsibility and not being penalized for your choice. If Obama said he was going to tax all scientists more - you would be outraged that you are being singled out after all of your sacrifices. I feel that he is effectively decreeing that all lawyers, doctors etc. will be taxed more because tend to fall into that income bracket. This may serve as a disincentive for some.
I do not believe it is the role of the government to penalize any choice in profession or to make that profession less appealing by creating a greater tax burden. That, to me, goes against the fundamentals of our society.
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:34 PM |
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LoriH
There's no place like home
Member since 8/07 4110 total posts
Name:
Lori
|
Re: Debate '08
Posted by dm24angel
Posted by LoriH
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mrsej
palin won't be president unless mccain dies, which i sincerely doubt will happen. Obama is going to be president - that freaks the crap out of me.
i know
Seriously, we cannot tell the future. They both can be great or they both can suck. Do we really know what the future will hold?
You are absolutely right, except with Obama I will be paying alot of money for that happiness or sadness. If his economic policy wasn't so radical and insane, I would at least listen to his other ideas, but I can't get past the taxes. i can't - he calls it fair, but how is it fair to me and my DH who are busting our azzes everyday, have student loans larger than some people's mortgages and went to school forever.
I have student loans. I don't make a lot of money, neither does DH (Teacher and a case manager for those who have special needs). But to me it's just not fair that I have kids who can't afford school supplies, whose parents work 2 and 3 jobs to feed them. Overall I believe in capitalism... but at this rate we're going to have 2 classes... the haves and the have nots.
And frankly, with our two post-graduate degrees, we'll probably be a have not under mccain's plan.
But do you think that 250,000 is the right cutoff? I will be that 5% facing the highest tax increase in history. We are not making $500,00 or a million. So are we supposed to support the whole country? Am I supposed to be penalized b/c you chose to be teachers and case managers?
you chose to rack up $100,000 in loans...
I'll keep my poor career choice in mind when I watch the HS students in my area drive to school in the BMW's bought by their parents that make $300k a year.
they probably make more than 300K a year - i drive a ford and my DH a 2001 honda - you are exactly right, we chose to rack up loans, we chose to work long hours, we chose to further our education. People chose not to further their education, people chose what hours to work, people chose their jobs. Point is, people make choices, but why will I be penalized and people that make other choices not penalized.
I do not think that most people if given the choice would decide not to further their education. Not everyone has the opportunity to make this choice. Furthering your education also does not always lead to a bigger paycheck.
Someone WILL always have to be the dishwasher or who will wash the dishes.
Nto everyone CAN become a Dr. Its simply not possible...so lets switch it around and say....with great reward comes great sacrifice...means the same thing no?
I am not really sure what you are trying to say here. Maybe you misunderstood my statement. I was not talking about those that do not have the capacity to achieve a higher level of education. I was referring to people who through circumstances in their life do not have the option of getting a higher level education right out of high school. Some may choose to get a formal education after while working and going to night school It is a very long difficult road for some. My point was that it is not as clear cut as making a right or wrong choice.
Message edited 10/15/2008 11:35:33 PM.
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:34 PM |
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Beth
The Key to your new home....
Member since 2/06 24849 total posts
Name:
Beth
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by LittleBlueBug
I don't think it's that really. I think that some just assume that people making that amount are living in a large house on a hill or something and do not realize that they may have debt too.
Look, EVERYONE'S taxes are going up...EVERYONE. It would be foolish to believe otherwise. I honestly feel that there should a flat tax and the small businesses should be exempt.
so b/c you have debt- you think you should pay less taxes???
what about people that have debt paying for medical bills, people that have debt b/c they can't afford to heat their homes, put gas in there cars etc
school was a choice!
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:35 PM |
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MrsERod
Praying for Everyone.
Member since 5/05 26170 total posts
Name:
MrsERod™®
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by LittleBlueBug
I'll let my dad know...I'm sure he'll sleep better at night.
I just hope that when he needs diabetes testing supplies and my mom needs her seizure and anti-coagulant medication when they have to leave their home and have to live on the street there will be someone there to help them out
my heart goes out to your parents - seriously 
but honestly, how much of those meds can $5,000 buy them??? (mccains plan)
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:35 PM |
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VirginiaDeb
Don't eat me, hippo!
Member since 5/05 9252 total posts
Name:
Deb
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Re: Debate '08
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mrsej
palin won't be president unless mccain dies, which i sincerely doubt will happen. Obama is going to be president - that freaks the crap out of me.
i know
Seriously, we cannot tell the future. They both can be great or they both can suck. Do we really know what the future will hold?
You are absolutely right, except with Obama I will be paying alot of money for that happiness or sadness. If his economic policy wasn't so radical and insane, I would at least listen to his other ideas, but I can't get past the taxes. i can't - he calls it fair, but how is it fair to me and my DH who are busting our azzes everyday, have student loans larger than some people's mortgages and went to school forever.
I have student loans. I don't make a lot of money, neither does DH (Teacher and a case manager for those who have special needs). But to me it's just not fair that I have kids who can't afford school supplies, whose parents work 2 and 3 jobs to feed them. Overall I believe in capitalism... but at this rate we're going to have 2 classes... the haves and the have nots.
And frankly, with our two post-graduate degrees, we'll probably be a have not under mccain's plan.
But do you think that 250,000 is the right cutoff? I will be that 5% facing the highest tax increase in history. We are not making $500,00 or a million. So are we supposed to support the whole country? Am I supposed to be penalized b/c you chose to be teachers and case managers?
you chose to rack up $100,000 in loans...
I'll keep my poor career choice in mind when I watch the HS students in my area drive to school in the BMW's bought by their parents that make $300k a year.
they probably make more than 300K a year - i drive a ford and my DH a 2001 honda - you are exactly right, we chose to rack up loans, we chose to work long hours, we chose to further our education. People chose not to further their education, people chose what hours to work, people chose their jobs. Point is, people make choices, but why will I be penalized and people that make other choices not penalized.
Ya know what, I'm not going to argue with someone who is ignorant to the hours and the heart I put into my job.
Enjoy your money. Just think about the kids in my class who can't afford glasses so that they can see the board while you do.
I guess you don't get the point either...i am not talking about any profession specifically...
Then maybe you shouldn't have called out my profession specifically.
B/c you listed those two specifically.
Well clearly I was not the only one that felt that you were specificially attacking those who choose to teach.
I do not responed well to those who belittle (intentionally or not) my profession. Too many years of "all you do is color" has done me in.
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:35 PM |
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dm24angel
Happiness
Member since 5/05 34581 total posts
Name:
Donna
|
Re: Debate '08
Posted by LoriH
Posted by dm24angel
Posted by LoriH
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mrsej
palin won't be president unless mccain dies, which i sincerely doubt will happen. Obama is going to be president - that freaks the crap out of me.
i know
Seriously, we cannot tell the future. They both can be great or they both can suck. Do we really know what the future will hold?
You are absolutely right, except with Obama I will be paying alot of money for that happiness or sadness. If his economic policy wasn't so radical and insane, I would at least listen to his other ideas, but I can't get past the taxes. i can't - he calls it fair, but how is it fair to me and my DH who are busting our azzes everyday, have student loans larger than some people's mortgages and went to school forever.
I have student loans. I don't make a lot of money, neither does DH (Teacher and a case manager for those who have special needs). But to me it's just not fair that I have kids who can't afford school supplies, whose parents work 2 and 3 jobs to feed them. Overall I believe in capitalism... but at this rate we're going to have 2 classes... the haves and the have nots.
And frankly, with our two post-graduate degrees, we'll probably be a have not under mccain's plan.
But do you think that 250,000 is the right cutoff? I will be that 5% facing the highest tax increase in history. We are not making $500,00 or a million. So are we supposed to support the whole country? Am I supposed to be penalized b/c you chose to be teachers and case managers?
you chose to rack up $100,000 in loans...
I'll keep my poor career choice in mind when I watch the HS students in my area drive to school in the BMW's bought by their parents that make $300k a year.
they probably make more than 300K a year - i drive a ford and my DH a 2001 honda - you are exactly right, we chose to rack up loans, we chose to work long hours, we chose to further our education. People chose not to further their education, people chose what hours to work, people chose their jobs. Point is, people make choices, but why will I be penalized and people that make other choices not penalized.
I do not think that most people if given the choice would decide not to further their education. Not everyone has the opportunity to make this choice. Furthering your education also does not always lead to a bigger paycheck.
Someone WILL always have to be the dishwasher or who will wash the dishes.
Nto everyone CAN become a Dr. Its simply not possible...so lets switch it around and say....with great reward comes great sacrifice...means the same thing no?
I am not really sure what you are trying to say here. Maybe you misunderstood my statement. I was not talking about those that do not have the capacity to achieve a higher level of education. I was referring to people who through circumstances in their life do not have the option of getting a higher level education right out of high school. Some may choose to get a formal education after while working and going to night school It is a very long difficult road for some. My point was that it is not as clear cut as making a right or wrong choice.
I was agreeing with you.....
That the opportunities are not just willing and waiting...
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:36 PM |
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mrsej
The cutest!
Member since 1/07 2495 total posts
Name:
Mommy
|
Re: Debate '08
Posted by stickydust
Posted by wannabemom
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by VirginiaDeb
Posted by mrsej
Posted by lipglossjunky73
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by mrsej
palin won't be president unless mccain dies, which i sincerely doubt will happen. Obama is going to be president - that freaks the crap out of me.
i know
Seriously, we cannot tell the future. They both can be great or they both can suck. Do we really know what the future will hold?
You are absolutely right, except with Obama I will be paying alot of money for that happiness or sadness. If his economic policy wasn't so radical and insane, I would at least listen to his other ideas, but I can't get past the taxes. i can't - he calls it fair, but how is it fair to me and my DH who are busting our azzes everyday, have student loans larger than some people's mortgages and went to school forever.
I have student loans. I don't make a lot of money, neither does DH (Teacher and a case manager for those who have special needs). But to me it's just not fair that I have kids who can't afford school supplies, whose parents work 2 and 3 jobs to feed them. Overall I believe in capitalism... but at this rate we're going to have 2 classes... the haves and the have nots.
And frankly, with our two post-graduate degrees, we'll probably be a have not under mccain's plan.
But do you think that 250,000 is the right cutoff? I will be that 5% facing the highest tax increase in history. We are not making $500,00 or a million. So are we supposed to support the whole country? Am I supposed to be penalized b/c you chose to be teachers and case managers?
you chose to rack up $100,000 in loans...
I'll keep my poor career choice in mind when I watch the HS students in my area drive to school in the BMW's bought by their parents that make $300k a year.
they probably make more than 300K a year - i drive a ford and my DH a 2001 honda - you are exactly right, we chose to rack up loans, we chose to work long hours, we chose to further our education. People chose not to further their education, people chose what hours to work, people chose their jobs. Point is, people make choices, but why will I be penalized and people that make other choices not penalized.
I'm not going to get into the tax debate... but for the record....
I have a PhD and do gov't funded research.... and I find this last comment a bit (while I suspect and hope you didn't mean it that way). Ya know, income and the degree of effort people put into their education and careers are NOT directly proportional by any means.
I make well under six figures (with a BS in bio and physical anthropology and a PhD in molecular biology and 3 years of post-grad training, and a faculty position). Needless to say, my hours are LONG, despite the low income. So, there are many people who work very very hard and have invested in their education at least as much as you yet don't lead the charmed life of a 250k+ income.
It's rather unfair to portray people who earn less as being less ambitious as those who earn more. many times, dare I say, they forego a high-income career track in order to select a career that may have a smaller impact on personal finances yet a larger impact on society.
I don't think Mrsej was saying this at all. I think what she was saying is that it is all a CHOICE. For better or for worse that choice is yours (the general you) and you take all the good and the bad that come with making that choice. It is about personal responsibility and not being penalized for your choice. If Obama said he was going to tax all scientists more - you would be outraged that you are being singled out after all of your sacrifices. I feel that he is effectively decreeing that all lawyers, doctors etc. will be taxed more because tend to fall into that income bracket. This may serve as a disincentive for some.
I do not believe it is the role of the government to penalize any choice in profession or to make that profession less appealing by creating a greater tax burden. That, to me, goes against the fundamentals of our society.
thank you - maybe i wasn't being clear - all of a sudden I saw my post being about teachers and I know my point got lost somewhere. I may be a little too tired to be doing this at this hour!
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:37 PM |
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Palebride
I am an amazing bakist
Member since 5/05 13673 total posts
Name:
Lori
|
Re: Debate '08
Posted by stickydust
I don't think Mrsej was saying this at all. I think what she was saying is that it is all a CHOICE. For better or for worse that choice is yours (the general you) and you take all the good and the bad that come with making that choice. It is about personal responsibility and not being penalized for your choice. If Obama said he was going to tax all scientists more - you would be outraged that you are being singled out after all of your sacrifices. I feel that he is effectively decreeing that all lawyers, doctors etc. will be taxed more because tend to fall into that income bracket. This may serve as a disincentive for some.
I do not believe it is the role of the government to penalize any choice in profession or to make that profession less appealing by creating a greater tax burden. That, to me, goes against the fundamentals of our society.
Of course ..and the good is making money - the bad is paying higher taxes.
I don't think any specific profession is being singled out to be taxed....an amount of money has to be chosen somewhere....and $250,000 is a substantial amount of money!
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| Posted 10/15/08 11:38 PM |
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my heart goes out to you and your 'penalty' 
