Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

I have mixed feelings about this, I'm not sure what the compromise is with religious holidays and days off from school. In NYC the 1st day of school is on 9/8 and the next 2 days are off bec. of a religious holiday. The Chancellor tried to change the 1st day to a professional staff development day but the teachers' union rejected it. So, how do we give importance to one or 2 religions and not others?

NYC Schools and Days off for Religious Holidays

Edited to change title.

Message edited 7/1/2010 10:52:59 AM.

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

OT: i feel schools should be open year round with a break up of vacation time built around religious and normally celebrated holidays. I really do not understand why they refused to consider this option.

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

I grew up in a very rural area of CT where the schools were not closed for the Jewish holidays.

We were one of only maybe 3 Jewish families within the school district.

I did not attend school on the High Holy Days (Rosh Hashanna or Yom Kippur). The schools also ALWAYS happened to have their apptitude tests scheduled on Yom Kippur and I remember my mother having to fight the school tooth and nail to allow me to take them after the holiday (I was never allowed).

With that said, I think you'd have to look at the overall population of the school (district) If say half the school (and I'm saying half hypothetically) observes the religious holiday, they it probably makes sense to have the school closed for it. But if there are a handful (again, hypothetically), then it does not make sense to close the schools.

In a place as religiously diverse as NYC, you can have a school that is predominately Muslim or Jewish, or another faith. If most of the school will be absent that day, does it make sense to remain open?

Message edited 7/1/2010 11:05:48 AM.

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

I think they should extend the school year & accomodate the other religious holidays depending on the % of population.

I don't know how absences are counted but it should certainly not count a student's allotment.

It would be a nightmare to adminster but you could give x number of personal days & students have the option - christmas, rosh hashannah,etc.

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

I think Muslims should get Eid off and other major holidays. We are talking what, 4-5 days extra off? Extend the school year by a week, no biggie. It isn't like the majority of religions are getting ALL the holidays off, just the major ones.

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

Also, this was a PR move on the part of the mayor and the chancellor to blame the teachers and the union. The DOE sets the school calendar not the Union.

They wanted the Union to give back a staff development day without engaging in negotiations even though the contract is expired.

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

I am going to speak from the Jewish standpoint. Note, that though I DO work in the city, I am NOT a DOE employee.

There 13 million Jews in the world.

Approximately 6 million of us live in the US - more than Israel if memory serves me correctly.

Of that 6 million, a disproportionate amount of those Jews live in the NY/Metro Area. Particularly, in Brooklyn.

Of that population, MANY of those people are employed as teachers/adminiatrators/clinicians, etc of the NYC DOE.

Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur are our holiest of days. Many observant as well as non-observant Jews will take that day off REGARDLESS of whether or not it is designated as a holiday by any city school or government official.

That being said, lets say more than half of the Jewish teachers took off on the High Holy Days, THOUSANDS of non-Jewish children would be left unattended and classrooms would be out of ratio. It is NOT because we WANT the day off, it is because many of us are WORSHIPPING in temple. The same way that a Christian would go to Church on Christmas or Easter.

I am willing to bet that these holidays were written into the calendar NOT to accommodate the children who are students but rather the teachers and (for lack of a better term) to "prepare" the parents in advance so they can make accommodations.

I worked for a short time in the private sector. Each employee had been given 3 days to be designated as "Floating Holidays". This was aside from federal holidays, Christmas and Thanksgiving. 3 floating holidays was enough for each Jewish employee to take those three days off. Mind you, there are MANY other EXTREMELY important Jewish holidays where observant Jews must use sick days for - Pesach, Shavout, Simchat Torah.

Now I am not saying that one religion is more important than the other or that all religions shouldn't be accommodated. I am just speaking from the perspective of a Jewish teacher. I don't think any parent wants to worry about what would happen if their children were left unattended because there were not enough substitutes to go around.

Message edited 7/1/2010 5:42:17 PM.

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

I don't think public schools should be closed for any religious holiday for any religion, Jewish or otherwise. They are state run schools, not run by churches or temples or mosques or any other religious entity. I think the school districts should work out some type of personal time that each teacher gets and can use for the religious holy days (and have temps available knowing this in advance). That way, each person could take off for their own religious reasons. And no important tests or field trips or what not would be scheduled during religious holy days so no child would miss out either if their parents decided to keep them home from school. Really no that difficult to work out - they'd be required to advise the district prior to the school year beginning which days they'll need off so the district can plan for replacements.

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

Message edited 7/1/2010 8:46:00 PM.

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

I felt like I had to clarify...
The first day of school for NYC teachers is the 7th. For kids it's the 8th. The religious holidays are the 9th and 10th. The city wanted the teachers to change the 8th to a staff development day and have the kids start on the 13th. It has nothing to do with the religious holidays.

As far as why the union turned it down...
The city wanted to change a later date that is currently a staff development day into a teaching day. The union probably doesn't want to make this concession because it could end up being a permanent give back of a teaching day in future years when the first day of school is not an issue. May seem petty but keep in mind NYC teachers are working with no contract, a freeze on hiring (which means bigger class size because teachers are still retiring) and a freeze on raises.

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?

FYI: This is the statement from the UFT President Michael Mulgrew concerning that Wednesday in Sept.

Good afternoon.

I’d like to point out a disturbing pattern.

When things go wrong in the schools, it’s never the administration’s fault.

Class sizes skyrocket — we’re told that principals have to make their own decisions about class size.

Kindergartens have waiting lists — people live in the wrong neighborhoods.

NAEP scores are flat — the state tests are the ones that count.

The court finds the DOE violated the law in closing schools — the judge is mistaken.

The school calendar is wrong — the UFT made us do it.

We need to set the record straight about the starting day of school next fall.

Parents should be outraged that Chancellor Klein has refused to exert the authority he has to properly manage the school calendar.

The Chancellor today blamed the union for his decision not to make Wednesday, Sept. 8 a professional development day. That decision means that, despite requests from some parents to delay the first school day for children until Monday, Sept. 13, the first school day for children will be Wednesday, Sept. 8.

The first day for teachers remains Tuesday, Sept. 7, and teachers will be in school on Wednesday whether students are present or not.

As you might have expected, Chancellor Klein’s letter to parents ignores the fact that the Chancellor does not need to get the union’s agreement to make Sept. 8 a professional development day. It also ignores the fact that a number of schools earlier this year sought to change their individual schedules to start school for children on Monday, Sept. 13 — and were denied by the Klein administration. If this was not a good idea then, how has it become one now?

The union has suggested calendar changes in recent months, involving both the last day of school this year and the first day of school for students next year. Most recently we suggested this in a meeting with the administration on May 12. As in previous such meetings, we were told that the calendar was unchangeable.

Our conversations with teachers and parents in the schools indicate that communities feel very differently about the possibility of changing the first day for students next fall. We have suggested to the Chancellor that he let each school make its own decision about whether or not to start on Monday, Sept. 13, as permitted under the school-based option in our contract.

The Chancellor’s letter claims that letting each school make its own decision would be “chaotic.” But for years the system operated with different school schedules for different boroughs, and schools across the system have been permitted to create professional development days at other points in the calendar. Previous managements have been up to the challenge of managing the logistics of transportation and food service. I’m sorry to hear that Chancellor Klein feels that his managers lack this competence in this instance.

The UFT has tried to ensure that the school calendar works for families and teachers, but the responsibility for that calendar is the administration’s alone.