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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by TheDivaBrideandTeddyFrog
Posted by jewels
I felt like I had to clarify...
The first day of school for NYC teachers is the 7th. For kids it's the 8th. The religious holidays are the 9th and 10th. The city wanted the teachers to change the 8th to a staff development day and have the kids start on the 13th. It has nothing to do with the religious holidays.
As far as why the union turned it down...
The city wanted to change a later date that is currently a staff development day into a teaching day. The union probably doesn't want to make this concession because it could end up being a permanent give back of a teaching day in future years when the first day of school is not an issue. May seem petty but keep in mind NYC teachers are working with no contract, a freeze on hiring (which means bigger class size because teachers are still retiring) and a freeze on raises.
Thank you! You said this in a way I couldn't figure out...the media is on an anti-teacher rampage due to the mayor basically owning the media outlets, so people only know what they hear regarding teacher issues lately...thanks for clarifying...
We've given back a lot recently- including a raise to avoid layoffs- so as much as I'd prefer to have PD on 9/8, I am glad Mulgrew didn't give in. Of course we're being painted as the bad guys here.
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Posted 7/1/10 9:22 PM  |
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by Andrewz00
Posted by Nifheim
OT: i feel schools should be open year round with a break up of vacation time built around religious and normally celebrated holidays. I really do not understand why they refused to consider this option.
ITA!!!! if school is supposed to prepare you for life etc.... then go to school year round!!
my college did this, every 11 or 12 weeks we had a week off... which normally coincided with holidays.... and if it didn't we had a day or two off....
the money that this would be saving on daycare and summer programs to keep kids entertained and safe would be extraordinary..
I am not sure you would be saving any money in the long run. It would just cost you more money in taxes - 2 additional months of school costs a lot of money.
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| Posted 7/1/10 9:25 PM |
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twicethefun
Loving life
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by Octobermom
Posted by justmefornow
Posted by Andrewz00
Posted by Nifheim
OT: i feel schools should be open year round with a break up of vacation time built around religious and normally celebrated holidays. I really do not understand why they refused to consider this option.
ITA!!!! if school is supposed to prepare you for life etc.... then go to school year round!!
my college did this, every 11 or 12 weeks we had a week off... which normally coincided with holidays.... and if it didn't we had a day or two off....
the money that this would be saving on daycare and summer programs to keep kids entertained and safe would be extraordinary..
This is exactly what I'm facing now, as a sort of single, working mom, with 2 young kids starting their elementary school years, I'm realizing that instead of camp/sitters, they'd be better off in school! There is no summer for us, no pool to join, still need to pay and find a safe place for them, still need to wake up early every moring...sorry a bit OT.
As a mom myself, I understand the frustration you feel. However, schools are not daycares. Kids need downtime too and an opportunity to experience life outside of school - including visits to museums, to the parks, etc. Also, keep in mind that most NYC schools were build in the late 1800's and early 1900's and for the most part are not air conditioned.
I agree. I want my children to experience camp. For that matter I want my children to experience family time without the stresses of school. I am so excited to be home with them this summer, I would hate to ever lose that. And that would be the end of sleepaway camp. Sports, swimming, playing with friends and family are also important. Everyday this week off has been an adventure for us.
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| Posted 7/1/10 9:39 PM |
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justmefornow
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Member since 9/08 859 total posts
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n
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by twicethefun
Posted by Octobermom
Posted by justmefornow
Posted by Andrewz00
Posted by Nifheim
OT: i feel schools should be open year round with a break up of vacation time built around religious and normally celebrated holidays. I really do not understand why they refused to consider this option.
ITA!!!! if school is supposed to prepare you for life etc.... then go to school year round!!
my college did this, every 11 or 12 weeks we had a week off... which normally coincided with holidays.... and if it didn't we had a day or two off....
the money that this would be saving on daycare and summer programs to keep kids entertained and safe would be extraordinary..
This is exactly what I'm facing now, as a sort of single, working mom, with 2 young kids starting their elementary school years, I'm realizing that instead of camp/sitters, they'd be better off in school! There is no summer for us, no pool to join, still need to pay and find a safe place for them, still need to wake up early every moring...sorry a bit OT.
As a mom myself, I understand the frustration you feel. However, schools are not daycares. Kids need downtime too and an opportunity to experience life outside of school - including visits to museums, to the parks, etc. Also, keep in mind that most NYC schools were build in the late 1800's and early 1900's and for the most part are not air conditioned.
I agree. I want my children to experience camp. For that matter I want my children to experience family time without the stresses of school. I am so excited to be home with them this summer, I would hate to ever lose that. And that would be the end of sleepaway camp. Sports, swimming, playing with friends and family are also important. Everyday this week off has been an adventure for us.
See I wish I could do that, alot of what you are saying is a luxury to many, many people, not only me, it's just high costs of living etc, both parents have to work all summer and have to pay $$$$ of money for camp/daycare etc. I'm not saying our taxes should pay for it, but I realize now why some people say the school year shoujld be longer. And, I'm not saying summer and downtime is not important to kids either.
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| Posted 7/1/10 9:49 PM |
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Goobster
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by justmefornow
See I wish I could do that, alot of what you are saying is a luxury to many, many people, not only me, it's just high costs of living etc, both parents have to work all summer and have to pay $$$$ of money for camp/daycare etc. I'm not saying our taxes should pay for it, but I realize now why some people say the school year shoujld be longer. And, I'm not saying summer and downtime is not important to kids either.
But is that what school is supposed to be about? School is about education, not babysitting. I don't mean to sound harsh or rude, so please don't take it that way. I am just discussing my thoughts and feelings. And IMO, children having TIME off is very important to rejuvenate a child's spirit, energy and brain,for the next year of school. I would be very upset if the school year became a mandatory YEAR round schedule to accomodate parents who don't have the funds to care for their children throughout the summer. I look forward to the summer with my child as I did growing up. I think school year round sort of diminishes the true meaning of school, and that is for educational purposes (at least that's what I always believed). And EVERYONE needs a break from education and the classroom setting in order to prepare for a new year.
I am sorry, truly, that summers off poses a problem for some parents. Maybe an option would be a lower cost discounted summer school camp type thing for children whose parents qualify financially, to attend. I would rather see that than a mandatory year round school year to accomodate some.
Message edited 7/1/2010 10:41:53 PM.
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| Posted 7/1/10 10:36 PM |
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MommaG
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by LL514
Posted by MommaG
I don't think public schools should be closed for any religious holiday for any religion, Jewish or otherwise. They are state run schools, not run by churches or temples or mosques or any other religious entity. I think the school districts should work out some type of personal time that each teacher gets and can use for the religious holy days (and have temps available knowing this in advance). That way, each person could take off for their own religious reasons. And no important tests or field trips or what not would be scheduled during religious holy days so no child would miss out either if their parents decided to keep them home from school. Really no that difficult to work out - they'd be required to advise the district prior to the school year beginning which days they'll need off so the district can plan for replacements.
hahahahahaha this is funny
Why is it funny?
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| Posted 7/1/10 11:06 PM |
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DiamondGirl
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
I am not even going to engage in this debate.
I will say education and daycare are two seperate things. Period.
Do not confuse the two. There are camps in the summer for working parents. It annoys me when people equate school to daycare.
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| Posted 7/1/10 11:29 PM |
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jgl
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g
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by Nifheim
OT: i feel schools should be open year round with a break up of vacation time built around religious and normally celebrated holidays. I really do not understand why they refused to consider this option.
in NY do you have an any idea how little would get accomplished in August with no AC and very little ventilation when your classroom is 90 degrees? try educating little kids in that... June is enough of a struggle. 
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| Posted 7/2/10 12:17 AM |
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MegZee
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by Nifheim
OT: i feel schools should be open year round with a break up of vacation time built around religious and normally celebrated holidays. I really do not understand why they refused to consider this option.
DH teaches in NYC in a school built in the 20s. When it was in the 90s last week, He came home drenched, he would bring an extra shirt and change during the day. he is a dean and has to run up 3 flights of starts on occasion. Even if they could spend the $$ to put in A/C, the power burden would probably brownout the city!
I believe there are schools in FL that do this, but i am sure they have A/C. and I believe at times they have 3 weeks off - what do you do with the kids then? take 3 weeks off from work? camp in the summer sounds better to me!
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| Posted 7/2/10 6:06 AM |
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ChaTTerBoX
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by Meaghan729
Posted by Nifheim
OT: i feel schools should be open year round with a break up of vacation time built around religious and normally celebrated holidays. I really do not understand why they refused to consider this option.
DH teaches in NYC in a school built in the 20s. When it was in the 90s last week, He came home drenched, he would bring an extra shirt and change during the day. he is a dean and has to run up 3 flights of starts on occasion. Even if they could spend the $$ to put in A/C, the power burden would probably brownout the city!
I believe there are schools in FL that do this, but i am sure they have A/C. and I believe at times they have 3 weeks off - what do you do with the kids then? take 3 weeks off from work? camp in the summer sounds better to me!
I give your DH credit! I can totally understand as I am a NYC teacher,....but my school has central air. We are extremely lucky. They look for those schools with A/C to house summer school. I think this is a win for all. A/C for those who have to attend summer school.
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| Posted 7/2/10 7:36 AM |
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Nifheim
allo
Member since 1/09 5476 total posts
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Jennifer
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
i am still for education year round even if my taxes did go up. I have no children but feel if they had the opportunity to be educated every month of the year perhaps they would have a greater edge in today's non-agriculture based economy which the school system was structured for originally. If a child had time off monthly let's say one week a month plus all the normal days he/she is off during the year they would do better then having two months off of doing nothing. I am not even touching the childcare issues to be either way your paying to have your child do something (either stay in a classroom or pay for camps or do what my mom did leave me alone or get babysat by friends stay at home mom's.)
Yea logistically its a nightmare with most building having no air conditioning and are completely out of date (buildings) i am not mapping out the entire plan here, i just state what I THINK would be best in general for children.
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| Posted 7/2/10 9:33 AM |
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KateDevine
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Member since 6/06 24950 total posts
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by Goobster
Posted by justmefornow
See I wish I could do that, alot of what you are saying is a luxury to many, many people, not only me, it's just high costs of living etc, both parents have to work all summer and have to pay $$$$ of money for camp/daycare etc. I'm not saying our taxes should pay for it, but I realize now why some people say the school year shoujld be longer. And, I'm not saying summer and downtime is not important to kids either.
But is that what school is supposed to be about? School is about education, not babysitting. I don't mean to sound harsh or rude, so please don't take it that way. I am just discussing my thoughts and feelings. And IMO, children having TIME off is very important to rejuvenate a child's spirit, energy and brain,for the next year of school. I would be very upset if the school year became a mandatory YEAR round schedule to accomodate parents who don't have the funds to care for their children throughout the summer. I look forward to the summer with my child as I did growing up. I think school year round sort of diminishes the true meaning of school, and that is for educational purposes (at least that's what I always believed). And EVERYONE needs a break from education and the classroom setting in order to prepare for a new year.
I am sorry, truly, that summers off poses a problem for some parents. Maybe an option would be a lower cost discounted summer school camp type thing for children whose parents qualify financially, to attend. I would rather see that than a mandatory year round school year to accomodate some.
ITA with Goobster.
School is NOT daycare. And like AP poster said, kids NEED downtime
As for camp, there are options out there. Town camps, Girl Scout/Boy Scout camps, etc, etc.
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| Posted 7/2/10 9:44 AM |
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MeNBobs
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Member since 4/07 3765 total posts
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
My parents wanted my brothers and I to be off for all Catholic holidays. The public schools in our area didn't observe every Catholic holiday so my parents did a crazy thing and sent us all to a private school that followed a schedule they wantedl. If your child is getting an education paid for by tax dollars that follows the NYS education guidelines you really can't complain. If it's that importatnt to you send your child to private school.
There is no way NYCPS can accomodate every religion. If they give in on this one next thing you know Scientologists, Gay Wiccans for Christ and Jedi Knights will be crawling out of the woodwork asking for special days off too.
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| Posted 7/2/10 10:28 AM |
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BriBri2u
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Member since 5/05 9320 total posts
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Mrs. B
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
This topic has ventured off the orignal question a bit, but here's my opinion on a full school year.
I'm not a parent yet, but I agree with other posters who stated that children need downtime.
I see it this way - they will be in school for another 10-15 years - plenty of time to learn. To have the constant pressure of exams, homework, projects etc...
Most schools have summer reading assignments with reports that are due when school starts, so its not like they aren't doing anything.
So to me I see nothing wrong with a child having 2 months off to do nothing but be a child.
Message edited 7/2/2010 10:37:04 AM.
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| Posted 7/2/10 10:35 AM |
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justmefornow
LIF Adolescent
Member since 9/08 859 total posts
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n
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by MeNBobs
My parents wanted my brothers and I to be off for all Catholic holidays. The public schools in our area didn't observe every Catholic holiday so my parents did a crazy thing and sent us all to a private school that followed a schedule they wantedl. If your child is getting an education paid for by tax dollars that follows the NYS education guidelines you really can't complain. If it's that importatnt to you send your child to private school.
There is no way NYCPS can accomodate every religion. If they give in on this one next thing you know Scientologists, Gay Wiccans for Christ and Jedi Knights will be crawling out of the woodwork asking for special days off too.
So do you agree we should NOT have off for Christmas or Passover or any other religious holidays either?
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| Posted 7/2/10 10:38 AM |
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justmefornow
LIF Adolescent
Member since 9/08 859 total posts
Name:
n
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by KateDevine
Posted by Goobster
Posted by justmefornow
See I wish I could do that, alot of what you are saying is a luxury to many, many people, not only me, it's just high costs of living etc, both parents have to work all summer and have to pay $$$$ of money for camp/daycare etc. I'm not saying our taxes should pay for it, but I realize now why some people say the school year shoujld be longer. And, I'm not saying summer and downtime is not important to kids either.
But is that what school is supposed to be about? School is about education, not babysitting. I don't mean to sound harsh or rude, so please don't take it that way. I am just discussing my thoughts and feelings. And IMO, children having TIME off is very important to rejuvenate a child's spirit, energy and brain,for the next year of school. I would be very upset if the school year became a mandatory YEAR round schedule to accomodate parents who don't have the funds to care for their children throughout the summer. I look forward to the summer with my child as I did growing up. I think school year round sort of diminishes the true meaning of school, and that is for educational purposes (at least that's what I always believed). And EVERYONE needs a break from education and the classroom setting in order to prepare for a new year.
I am sorry, truly, that summers off poses a problem for some parents. Maybe an option would be a lower cost discounted summer school camp type thing for children whose parents qualify financially, to attend. I would rather see that than a mandatory year round school year to accomodate some.
ITA with Goobster.
School is NOT daycare. And like AP poster said, kids NEED downtime
As for camp, there are options out there. Town camps, Girl Scout/Boy Scout camps, etc, etc.
I totally did not mean to imply that school=daycare and nor did I say I don't want my kids to have a summer off or that the downtime is not important. I was merely responding to a post that was was talking about sleepaway camps/pools and all the time that families should or get to spend together all summer long, which seems like a luxury for many nowadays (the poster said she was home with her kids all summer).
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| Posted 7/2/10 10:43 AM |
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MeNBobs
*****
Member since 4/07 3765 total posts
Name:
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by justmefornow
Posted by MeNBobs
My parents wanted my brothers and I to be off for all Catholic holidays. The public schools in our area didn't observe every Catholic holiday so my parents did a crazy thing and sent us all to a private school that followed a schedule they wantedl. If your child is getting an education paid for by tax dollars that follows the NYS education guidelines you really can't complain. If it's that importatnt to you send your child to private school.
There is no way NYCPS can accomodate every religion. If they give in on this one next thing you know Scientologists, Gay Wiccans for Christ and Jedi Knights will be crawling out of the woodwork asking for special days off too.
So do you agree we should NOT have off for Christmas or Passover or any other religious holidays either?
Those are holidays for the two majority religions of the students attending the schoosl so having off for those holidays makes sense. They can't accomodate every religion. They can't have days off just because 1.97% of the students follow that religion. If they did change it so that you have school on Christmas so be it either keep your child home from school that day or send them to a school that follows the schedule you want.
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| Posted 7/2/10 11:00 AM |
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justmefornow
LIF Adolescent
Member since 9/08 859 total posts
Name:
n
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by MeNBobs
Posted by justmefornow
Posted by MeNBobs
My parents wanted my brothers and I to be off for all Catholic holidays. The public schools in our area didn't observe every Catholic holiday so my parents did a crazy thing and sent us all to a private school that followed a schedule they wantedl. If your child is getting an education paid for by tax dollars that follows the NYS education guidelines you really can't complain. If it's that importatnt to you send your child to private school.
There is no way NYCPS can accomodate every religion. If they give in on this one next thing you know Scientologists, Gay Wiccans for Christ and Jedi Knights will be crawling out of the woodwork asking for special days off too.
So do you agree we should NOT have off for Christmas or Passover or any other religious holidays either?
Those are holidays for the two majority religions of the students attending the schoosl so having off for those holidays makes sense. They can't accomodate every religion. They can't have days off just because 1.97% of the students follow that religion. If they did change it so that you have school on Christmas so be it either keep your child home from school that day or send them to a school that follows the schedule you want.
The article says over 12% of NYC public school students are Muslim. Does that change things?
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| Posted 7/2/10 11:18 AM |
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kgs11
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Name:
Kim
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by DiamondGirl
I am not even going to engage in this debate.
I will say education and daycare are two seperate things. Period.
Do not confuse the two. There are camps in the summer for working parents. It annoys me when people equate school to daycare.
ITA word for word
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| Posted 7/2/10 1:18 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
I think because both Christian and Jewish religion is the most prevalent here in NYC/LI.
When I lived in NC several years ago, nobody had Jewish holidays off set by the school.
At work, people used their personal days if they wanted the day off.
Same for African American and Martin Luther King day. It's not always a day off.
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| Posted 7/2/10 2:10 PM |
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MrsYank
She's here :)
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by Nifheim
i am still for education year round even if my taxes did go up. I have no children but feel if they had the opportunity to be educated every month of the year perhaps they would have a greater edge in today's non-agriculture based economy which the school system was structured for originally. If a child had time off monthly let's say one week a month plus all the normal days he/she is off during the year they would do better then having two months off of doing nothing. I am not even touching the childcare issues to be either way your paying to have your child do something (either stay in a classroom or pay for camps or do what my mom did leave me alone or get babysat by friends stay at home mom's.)
Yea logistically its a nightmare with most building having no air conditioning and are completely out of date (buildings) i am not mapping out the entire plan here, i just state what I THINK would be best in general for children.
How about physiologically- you try teaching 25 Kindergarten kids in the SWELTERING Heat. Or Fourth graders who spent 9/10 months doing test prep?
Even with out the heat- the kids need the break!
Until you've walked a mile.....
ETA: with regards to the PP- I don't think any Muslim Child who took off for EID (or other Holidays) in our school (both when I taught with the DOE and here on LI) were ever penalized for their absence.
Message edited 7/2/2010 3:52:37 PM.
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| Posted 7/2/10 3:47 PM |
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PrincessVonTrockel
Trophy Wife in Training
Member since 11/09 2953 total posts
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by MommaG
I don't think public schools should be closed for any religious holiday for any religion, Jewish or otherwise. They are state run schools, not run by churches or temples or mosques or any other religious entity. I think the school districts should work out some type of personal time that each teacher gets and can use for the religious holy days (and have temps available knowing this in advance). That way, each person could take off for their own religious reasons. And no important tests or field trips or what not would be scheduled during religious holy days so no child would miss out either if their parents decided to keep them home from school. Really no that difficult to work out - they'd be required to advise the district prior to the school year beginning which days they'll need off so the district can plan for replacements.
ITA with this.
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| Posted 7/2/10 4:06 PM |
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Erica
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 11767 total posts
Name:
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
the days are not off for religious reasons, but for observances. When even small number of a class is absent, it makes a huge difference and then there are all the kids that have to make up work, since they spent the day observing a religious holiday.
Schools have off merely to be more efficient.
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| Posted 7/2/10 4:20 PM |
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Kierasmom
I love my kids
Member since 5/05 2885 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Schools should not be open year round. Kids, especially young ones, need the summer off to be a kid. Why are we always so worried about making the kids do so much in school and keeping them in for a longer amount of time? They will have their entire life after they graduate high school to put in long hours and work year round. You only go to structured school for 12 years of your life. Kids should be allowed to have the needed vacation time.
As far as should the schools close for other holidays, my feeling is no. If we are going to add in Muslim holidays then I think they have to add in all religions. I think handling it so that the child is not charged with an absence and instituting a policy where teachers can't give tests or have projects due that day is the better way to handle it. There are plenty of Catholic and Jewish holidays that the schools do not close for and if I chose to take my kid out on those days I would expect my child to make up the work. I would however be upset if my child missed a test on a holy day.
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| Posted 7/2/10 6:05 PM |
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drpepper318
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Member since 6/07 8274 total posts
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me
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by Octobermom
As a mom myself, I understand the frustration you feel. However, schools are not daycares. Kids need downtime too and an opportunity to experience life outside of school - including visits to museums, to the parks, etc. Also, keep in mind that most NYC schools were build in the late 1800's and early 1900's and for the most part are not air conditioned.
Exactly! THANK YOU
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| Posted 7/2/10 7:10 PM |
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