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jgl
Love my little boys!!!
Member since 8/07 7060 total posts
Name:
g
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
WHAT? are either one of you teachers?
This is SCHOOL! We are trying to educate children. Yes we have substitutes, but lets be honest they are not the teacher of that class and most teachers I know do not leave exactly what needs to be done that day because it wouldnt get taught or done correctly.
Do you know how much it would cost the SD to get subs for those days? Or how hard it would be to even find subs to cover these days. Lets say Jewish teachers want to take off for Yom Kippor. One school may have 10 jewish teachers who need off that day. That is 1 school, typically school districts share subs. There is no way a school would have enough subs to cover those classes.
this plan would not work and it really wouldnt be that easy to work out
Message edited 7/2/2010 8:08:19 PM.
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Posted 7/2/10 7:59 PM  |
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luckyinlove
I love my baby girls!
Member since 12/06 2441 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by MrsYank
Posted by Nifheim
i am still for education year round even if my taxes did go up. I have no children but feel if they had the opportunity to be educated every month of the year perhaps they would have a greater edge in today's non-agriculture based economy which the school system was structured for originally. If a child had time off monthly let's say one week a month plus all the normal days he/she is off during the year they would do better then having two months off of doing nothing. I am not even touching the childcare issues to be either way your paying to have your child do something (either stay in a classroom or pay for camps or do what my mom did leave me alone or get babysat by friends stay at home mom's.)
Yea logistically its a nightmare with most building having no air conditioning and are completely out of date (buildings) i am not mapping out the entire plan here, i just state what I THINK would be best in general for children.
How about physiologically- you try teaching 25 Kindergarten kids in the SWELTERING Heat. Or Fourth graders who spent 9/10 months doing test prep?
Even with out the heat- the kids need the break!
Until you've walked a mile.....
ETA: with regards to the PP- I don't think any Muslim Child who took off for EID (or other Holidays) in our school (both when I taught with the DOE and here on LI) were ever penalized for their absence.
ITA agree with this. It is easy for someone who does not have children in school or who is not a teacher to see what June is like in a classroom to say that school should be all year round. The kids all need a break to recharge and be ready for new material come September!
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| Posted 7/2/10 9:40 PM |
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bklyngirl
COULD THIS BE MY YEAR??
Member since 6/05 15758 total posts
Name:
Gail
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
i'm someone that needed those days off. u also have to think about the jewish teachers. if there aren't any teachers, what would the students do then
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| Posted 7/2/10 9:59 PM |
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PrincessVonTrockel
Trophy Wife in Training
Member since 11/09 2953 total posts
Name:
Natalie
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by jgl
WHAT? are either one of you teachers?
I'm a dance instructor so technically I am a teacher but not in this sense.
My response to the "10 teachers" issue would be that they cannot all have the day off then...maybe it would go by tenure. Just because you request a day off from work b/c it is important to you does not mean you HAVE to have it off. School goes till usually about 3pm I'm sure on CERTAIN not all but some holidays people could go to temple or church or mosque after work its just that people WANT the entire day off, maybe they could do half days?
Message edited 7/3/2010 3:44:15 PM.
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| Posted 7/3/10 3:41 PM |
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PrincessVonTrockel
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Member since 11/09 2953 total posts
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Natalie
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Also wanted to add that most of my agreement with the post was that schools are not religious places and therefore, NO RELIGION in any way should influence any part of the way it is run.
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| Posted 7/3/10 3:46 PM |
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nicrae
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Member since 12/06 9289 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by PrincessVonTrockel
Posted by jgl
WHAT? are either one of you teachers?
I'm a dance instructor so technically I am a teacher but not in this sense.
My response to the "10 teachers" issue would be that they cannot all have the day off then...maybe it would go by tenure. Just because you request a day off from work b/c it is important to you does not mean you HAVE to have it off. School goes till usually about 3pm I'm sure on CERTAIN not all but some holidays people could go to temple or church or mosque after work its just that people WANT the entire day off, maybe they could do half days?
So hypothetically if you celebrate Christmas YOU would be ok with being told you can't have the day off to spend with your family because you have to teach every year???
What about PM school and night school? Would those teachers just have to give up celebrating holidays in general? Because those same teachers also teach day school as well.
Also even for half days someone still has to cover the class....
It is easy to claim what would work when you have no idea what you are talking about.
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| Posted 7/3/10 4:30 PM |
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luckyinlove
I love my baby girls!
Member since 12/06 2441 total posts
Name:
Lauren
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by nicrae
Posted by PrincessVonTrockel
Posted by jgl
WHAT? are either one of you teachers?
I'm a dance instructor so technically I am a teacher but not in this sense.
My response to the "10 teachers" issue would be that they cannot all have the day off then...maybe it would go by tenure. Just because you request a day off from work b/c it is important to you does not mean you HAVE to have it off. School goes till usually about 3pm I'm sure on CERTAIN not all but some holidays people could go to temple or church or mosque after work its just that people WANT the entire day off, maybe they could do half days?
So hypothetically if you celebrate Christmas YOU would be ok with being told you can't have the day off to spend with your family because you have to teach every year???
What about PM school and night school? Would those teachers just have to give up celebrating holidays in general? Because those same teachers also teach day school as well.
Also even for half days someone still has to cover the class....
It is easy to claim what would work when you have no idea what you are talking about.
ITA with you. I don't get why some people here think that schools should not be closed for holidays. Lets just take all of the fun out of life for kids while we are at it. Totally ridiculous! 
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| Posted 7/3/10 4:55 PM |
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MrsH2009
Thank you St. Gerard!
Member since 8/09 6631 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Just wanted to add that some districts, I know some in NC, went to "year round" school. It's not really year round. For example a student goes to school let's say Sept Oct Nov, has off all of Dec. Goes Jan, Feb, March, has off all of April. Goes May June July, has off all of August.
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| Posted 7/3/10 5:13 PM |
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jgl
Love my little boys!!!
Member since 8/07 7060 total posts
Name:
g
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by nicrae
Posted by PrincessVonTrockel
Posted by jgl
WHAT? are either one of you teachers?
I'm a dance instructor so technically I am a teacher but not in this sense.
My response to the "10 teachers" issue would be that they cannot all have the day off then...maybe it would go by tenure. Just because you request a day off from work b/c it is important to you does not mean you HAVE to have it off. School goes till usually about 3pm I'm sure on CERTAIN not all but some holidays people could go to temple or church or mosque after work its just that people WANT the entire day off, maybe they could do half days?
So hypothetically if you celebrate Christmas YOU would be ok with being told you can't have the day off to spend with your family because you have to teach every year???
What about PM school and night school? Would those teachers just have to give up celebrating holidays in general? Because those same teachers also teach day school as well.
Also even for half days someone still has to cover the class....
It is easy to claim what would work when you have no idea what you are talking about.
lets not forget the students. Even if I didnt take off for MY religious holidays, half my class would be absent on christmas (for example). how would I educate my students when I will be missing half my class on holidays?
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| Posted 7/3/10 5:53 PM |
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Jax430
Hi!
Member since 5/05 18919 total posts
Name:
Jackie
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by PrincessVonTrockel
Posted by jgl
WHAT? are either one of you teachers?
I'm a dance instructor so technically I am a teacher but not in this sense.
My response to the "10 teachers" issue would be that they cannot all have the day off then...maybe it would go by tenure. Just because you request a day off from work b/c it is important to you does not mean you HAVE to have it off. School goes till usually about 3pm I'm sure on CERTAIN not all but some holidays people could go to temple or church or mosque after work its just that people WANT the entire day off, maybe they could do half days?
This would not be possible for many Jewish teachers on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. For those who observe, many things are forbidden, including driving, writing, and using electricity. There is no feasible way to have teachers in NYC working on these holidays.
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| Posted 7/3/10 6:32 PM |
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MommaG
Yay Spring!
Member since 5/05 5133 total posts
Name:
Gloria
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by Jax430
Posted by PrincessVonTrockel
Posted by jgl
WHAT? are either one of you teachers?
I'm a dance instructor so technically I am a teacher but not in this sense.
My response to the "10 teachers" issue would be that they cannot all have the day off then...maybe it would go by tenure. Just because you request a day off from work b/c it is important to you does not mean you HAVE to have it off. School goes till usually about 3pm I'm sure on CERTAIN not all but some holidays people could go to temple or church or mosque after work its just that people WANT the entire day off, maybe they could do half days?
This would not be possible for many Jewish teachers on Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. For those who observe, many things are forbidden, including driving, writing, and using electricity. There is no feasible way to have teachers in NYC working on these holidays.
I think the point we're trying to make is the public schools are not religious entities and should not be closed for any religious observance. How the district works out who gets time off and how to cover the classes of those who do is their business.
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| Posted 7/3/10 7:11 PM |
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jgl
Love my little boys!!!
Member since 8/07 7060 total posts
Name:
g
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by MommaG
I think the point we're trying to make is the public schools are not religious entities and should not be closed for any religious observance. How the district works out who gets time off and how to cover the classes of those who do is their business.
I understand that but how do you teach when half your class is missing observing a holiday? We would be playing catchup all the time and there just isnt time for that
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| Posted 7/3/10 7:41 PM |
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by jgl
I understand that but how do you teach when half your class is missing observing a holiday? We would be playing catchup all the time and there just isnt time for that
It would be a logistical nightmare- I have had days where many of my Muslim kids are out on their major holidays, and when they return (often 7-8 kids) I have to catch them up, and I also try not to do anything too important because I know that catch up time will not be nearly what the other kids got. It would be very hard if that was the rule and not the exception.
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| Posted 7/3/10 7:58 PM |
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Athee
I believe in miracles!
Member since 8/07 2462 total posts
Name:
A
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Things should stay as is... as far as having other religious days off... that should be up to the parent to send the child to school or not. I remember going to school myself and being that we had school on the Greek Good Friday, my mom agreed on letting me stay home. i made up the work when I came back. There are too many religions and too many important holidays here in the US to have off. HOWEVER, the state tests should NOT be scheduled around any major religious holiday.... Now, having said that and yes I am a NYC teacher who teaches in the fifth floor in a very old building, summers are NO joke... my thermometer once read 94 degrees... and that was mid June... and besides that I do agree that children NEED a break and experience playing outdoors and socializing...
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| Posted 7/3/10 9:58 PM |
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Erica
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 11767 total posts
Name:
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by PrincessVonTrockel
My response to the "10 teachers" issue would be that they cannot all have the day off then...
umm - this is illegal. it's a ridiculous thought , since people would call in sick in this situation. I worked at Cardozo HS. I would say about 80-85% of the faculty was Jewish. That would be 200 absences...mostly tenured teachers, who would sue if they were denied off for their holiest of holidays. So add lawsuit payouts to the budget now, instead of just planning days off that will be taken at some time in the year or another.
Like I ,and everyone else, has said, schools have off not for religious purposes, but b/c the student population is observing it. When schools have large Jewish populations (i.e. the NYC metro area) they have off for students to observe the holidays.
It's about efficiency (the reason when schools are closed for the Feb break - it's the coldest week of the year - no heating costs). Why not schedule your 180 days around major holidays so learning can be most efficient?
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| Posted 7/4/10 10:18 AM |
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justmefornow
LIF Adolescent
Member since 9/08 859 total posts
Name:
n
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by Erica
Posted by PrincessVonTrockel
My response to the "10 teachers" issue would be that they cannot all have the day off then...
Like I ,and everyone else, has said, schools have off not for religious purposes, but b/c the student population is observing it. When schools have large Jewish populations (i.e. the NYC metro area) they have off for students to observe the holidays.
So based on student population (not teachers) do you think if a district has a high Muslim (or any other religious population) the entire school should have off for the 2 days that they are asking for?
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| Posted 7/4/10 11:32 AM |
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PrincessVonTrockel
Trophy Wife in Training
Member since 11/09 2953 total posts
Name:
Natalie
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Message edited 7/4/2010 12:16:28 PM.
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| Posted 7/4/10 11:54 AM |
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Erica
LIF Adult
Member since 5/05 11767 total posts
Name:
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by justmefornow
Posted by Erica
Posted by PrincessVonTrockel
My response to the "10 teachers" issue would be that they cannot all have the day off then...
Like I ,and everyone else, has said, schools have off not for religious purposes, but b/c the student population is observing it. When schools have large Jewish populations (i.e. the NYC metro area) they have off for students to observe the holidays.
So based on student population (not teachers) do you think if a district has a high Muslim (or any other religious population) the entire school should have off for the 2 days that they are asking for?
yes, I think it would be appropriate. Missing a day of school can be a big deal for students on all levels and when a significant number of students are missing, it's hard for teachers to go ahead - think snowy days that are not called snow days. Anyway you slice it, students go to school for about 180 days; what difference does it make if the day off is a holiday (secular or religious) or a random day (february or summer). it's not like the students are going to school less b/c of religious holidays, they are just going different days.
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| Posted 7/4/10 2:18 PM |
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DRMom
Two in Blue
Member since 5/05 20223 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by Andrewz00
Posted by Nifheim
OT: i feel schools should be open year round with a break up of vacation time built around religious and normally celebrated holidays. I really do not understand why they refused to consider this option.
ITA!!!! if school is supposed to prepare you for life etc.... then go to school year round!!
my college did this, every 11 or 12 weeks we had a week off... which normally coincided with holidays.... and if it didn't we had a day or two off....
the money that this would be saving on daycare and summer programs to keep kids entertained and safe would be extraordinary..
This what goes on where I live (Wake County, NC) They have different tracks-so Track one goes for 9 weeks then has 3 weeks off-even through the summer. The kids and teachers seem to like it and all the daycares-after cares have track out programs for childcare
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| Posted 7/4/10 2:54 PM |
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Goldi0218
My miracles!
Member since 12/05 23902 total posts
Name:
Leslie
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
As a Jewish teacher, there is no way in hell that I would allow my employer to dictate when I can take off for religious observance, Its my constitutional right and a lawsuit would be brought up IMMEDIATELY. The idea of limiting how many teachers can take off is 1 million percent ABSURD. It is my employer's responsibility to provide adequate coveragee for its classrooms. If they can't, then admins need to step in and cover classes.
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| Posted 7/4/10 8:14 PM |
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eddiesmommy
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Member since 5/09 11524 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
if its not broke, dont fix it. You cant please everyone. We live in a democracy and in a democracy, majority rules. End of story in my opinion.
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| Posted 7/4/10 10:40 PM |
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mom2aidan
2 boys & 1 girl :)
Member since 11/06 1874 total posts
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
I'm a teacher and I agree with the way things are now, but just out of curiosity, how does it work in the private sector?
For instance, if you work for a bank, insurance company, advertising agency..... when do they close?
I know my friends do NOT get off for the same days that I do....
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| Posted 7/4/10 11:01 PM |
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eddiesmommy
best buds!
Member since 5/09 11524 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
i work for a publicly traded corporation and we have off for Xmas and thats it. As far as I know, we do not have off for any Jewish holidays. I should note that the CEO, President and Chairman are all Jewish.
After that, they are all secular holidays.
Message edited 7/4/2010 11:30:28 PM.
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| Posted 7/4/10 11:05 PM |
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Blazesyth
*yawn*
Member since 5/05 8129 total posts
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by eddiesmommy
i work for a publicly traded corporation and we have off for Xmas and thats it. As far as I know, we do not have off for any Jewish holidays. I should not that the CEO, President and Chairman are all Jewish.
After that, they are all secular holidays.
Ditto. We get 6 'floating holidays' that you can use for other holidays that aren't company holidays or for other personal reasons.
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| Posted 7/4/10 11:14 PM |
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Jan1975
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Member since 8/09 3846 total posts
Name:
Sarah
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Re: Discuss: Should NYC public schools be closed for more than 2 religions' holidays?
Posted by Erica
the days are not off for religious reasons, but for observances. When even small number of a class is absent, it makes a huge difference and then there are all the kids that have to make up work, since they spent the day observing a religious holiday.
Schools have off merely to be more efficient.
This sounds like a good idea in context, but as any teacher knows, as stated by Erica, it would be a nightmare if students were constantly taking "personal days". Teachers would spend all their time trying to catch students up on all the work they missed. IF the majority of the students are going to stay home for a religous observance nothing gets done in the classroom and is a major PIA.
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| Posted 7/4/10 11:48 PM |
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