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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
Name:
Me speaks pirate!
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by chilltocam
Posted by Kitten1929
You know, I just can't keep up.
One one hand, all we hear about is these women who have welfare babies to they can continue to suck off the taxpayer teet and rob us all of our hard earned money.
Then you have all these women who run around having abortions like it's birth control.
So I ask Republicans - which is it? Can us women have babies and need government assistance, or can we NOT have babies because you think's it immoral to have abortions. It seems all we care about is bringing these babies into the world - wanted or not - but not caring or providing assistance for their growth and development after birth.
This exactly. I have very little doubt that most of the anti-choice voices on here and out in the real world also scream bloody murder about their tax dollars going to support welfare mothers and their children. Can't have it both ways. And I know, the response on here will be "oh, not me, I'm not like that." But we all know what the reality is (and the platforms of each party) when it comes to these 2 issues.
I'm sure they're also running out in droves to adopt these unwanted children they keep fighting for at the expense of the mother's right to choose. Just curious how many posters with an anti-choice stance on this thread have actually adopted a child. Not their friend, sister-in-law, cousin or neighbor, but they themselves. The very children they think are easily adoptable.
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Posted 10/20/16 10:07 AM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11487 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by BaseballWidow
I seriously want to know how many people so opposed to abortion have actually gone out, supported a woman emotionally, physically and financially through her entire pregnancy and then went on to adopt her child. Your "beliefs" do not supersede anyone's rights.
The same people who are pro-life seem to be the same people who would offer no financial help if the woman were to have the child. Or they'll say they keep having children to take advantage of the system. The hypocrisy is amazing.
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| Posted 10/20/16 10:09 AM |
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ohbaby08
Winter is Coming
Member since 10/07 1718 total posts
Name:
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Final Presidential Debate
Prior to me being born, my mother had to have an abortion when she contracted german measles (rubella) and it caused the fetus to have brain damage. To all the pro-life people, don't dare sit on your high horses and tell me that she should have been made to carry that baby to term when it would have had zero quality of life.
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| Posted 10/20/16 10:13 AM |
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Final Presidential Debate
Isn't this kind of silly? He's not going to win, the right (meaning the pols, not everyday people) have really done themselves in.
Roe V Wade will be the same as it is. I think the majority of America has become more progressive as a whole. Not knocking anyone who is conservative but that's just the path the country has been on.
I just don't see the point in trying to change minds as it won't happen and it's not in (immediate) danger. He will not be president. I'm going to go on a limb and say we won't see a R president for quite some time after this. I just don't see it for our country. Not saying I agree, just how it seems.
I'm pro choice but I can see why people are pro life. It's a really sensitive topic for people.
Message edited 10/20/2016 10:18:53 AM.
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| Posted 10/20/16 10:17 AM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by ohbaby08
Prior to me being born, my mother had to have an abortion when she contracted german measles (rubella) and it caused the fetus to have brain damage. To all the pro-life people, don't dare sit on your high horses and tell me that she should have been made to carry that baby to term when it would have had zero quality of life.
Exactly. It's very easy to sit on your high horse of morality until you have walked in someone else's shoes.
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| Posted 10/20/16 10:20 AM |
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
This quote summed up my thoughts better than I could myself:
"I do not believe that just because you're opposed to abortion, that that makes you pro-life. In fact, I think in many cases, your morality is deeply lacking if all you want is a child born but not a child fed, not a child educated, not a child housed. And why would I think that you don't? Because you don't want any tax money to go there. That's not pro-life. That's pro-birth. We need a much broader conversation on what the morality of pro-life is."
Link
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| Posted 10/20/16 10:22 AM |
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Isn't this kind of silly? He's not going to win, the right (meaning the pols, not everyday people) have really done themselves in.
Roe V Wade will be the same as it is. I think the majority of America has become more progressive as a whole. Not knocking anyone who is conservative but that's just the path the country has been on.
I just don't see the point in trying to change minds as it won't happen and it's not in (immediate) danger. He will not be president. I'm going to go on a limb and say we won't see a R president for quite some time after this. I just don't see it for our country. Not saying I agree, just how it seems.
I'm pro choice but I can see why people are pro life. It's a really sensitive topic for people.
I think that is being complacent and is a dangerous way to think. I used to think Roe V. Wade was a given, but I don't believe that anymore. And while Trump may not be our next President there are still many elected officials that think like him and would love to change the law. I also think the GOP is going to spend the next few years really grooming a strong but more moderate candidate and may very well have a 2020 victory. So there is a very real danger IMO.
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| Posted 10/20/16 10:25 AM |
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Kitten1929
LIF Adult
Member since 1/13 6040 total posts
Name:
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by ohbaby08
Prior to me being born, my mother had to have an abortion when she contracted german measles (rubella) and it caused the fetus to have brain damage. To all the pro-life people, don't dare sit on your high horses and tell me that she should have been made to carry that baby to term when it would have had zero quality of life.
Exactly. It's very easy to sit on your high horse of morality until you have walked in someone else's shoes.
Someone very close to me had to terminate at 24 weeks because the baby had Trisomy 13 (Patau Syndrome)...should she have been forced to carry the baby to term (which was unlikely), let it die in utero or stillborn? Could anyone else make a decision on what was best for her, both physically and emotionally? The trauma of a diagnosis like that...it's lasting effects...why shouldn't she have been allowed to control her narrative and her experience and her closure with the situation? OK, so maybe SHE was not in any medical danger, but what quality of life would the baby have had, if it even made it to term? Clubbed feet, deformed arms and flippers for hands, deformed skull and brain development. My god I am pregnant right now and this is killing me even reliving just by writing this out. She should have been forced to endure that kind of agony? She had to get some semblance of closure, no?
The best possible outcome any woman could hope for is a healthy pregnancy. It's not always the case. I could never in good conscience police another womens body. I have to trust my fellow women that they are making the best possible decisions for themselves and/or families.
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| Posted 10/20/16 10:26 AM |
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mnmsoinlove
Mommy to 2 sweet girls!
Member since 3/09 8585 total posts
Name:
Melissa
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Can we also add that they do not want women to access to healthcare and birth control to this. I once heard this and it sticks with me. The right cares more about the unborn fetuses that they do about the babies who are born. Once they a born they don't support any of the programs that would help to take care of these children. 
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| Posted 10/20/16 10:26 AM |
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LInMI
LIF Adult
Member since 7/10 1800 total posts
Name:
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by ChilisWife
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by stinger
Yikes re: Roe v Wade
That alone may have just won it for her
Not for those voters who are pro-life. Here on LI it may seem like everyone is pro-choice but that is not the case in many parts of the country.
I would hardly say this is the reason why she would win the nomination.
Like the PP said it may be a hot topic on here, but in general abortion (on both sides of the isles) isn't even a top voting issues in the 2016 election for most people (according to PewResearch...not me). The majority (NOT ALL) of voters this year are more concerned with the economy, terrorism, foreign policy, and health care.
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| Posted 10/20/16 10:30 AM |
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Isn't this kind of silly? He's not going to win, the right (meaning the pols, not everyday people) have really done themselves in.
Roe V Wade will be the same as it is. I think the majority of America has become more progressive as a whole. Not knocking anyone who is conservative but that's just the path the country has been on.
I just don't see the point in trying to change minds as it won't happen and it's not in (immediate) danger. He will not be president. I'm going to go on a limb and say we won't see a R president for quite some time after this. I just don't see it for our country. Not saying I agree, just how it seems.
I'm pro choice but I can see why people are pro life. It's a really sensitive topic for people.
I think that is being complacent and is a dangerous way to think. I used to think Roe V. Wade was a given, but I don't believe that anymore. And while Trump may not be our next President there are still many elected officials that think like him and would love to change the law. I also think the GOP is going to spend the next few years really grooming a strong but more moderate candidate and may very well have a 2020 victory. So there is a very real danger IMO.
I can see that. I don't mean to sound or be complacent. I support R v W but I guess it just feels that the country overall seems to support pro-choice, gay marriage, and more left leaning ideals.
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| Posted 10/20/16 10:31 AM |
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Isn't this kind of silly? He's not going to win, the right (meaning the pols, not everyday people) have really done themselves in.
Roe V Wade will be the same as it is. I think the majority of America has become more progressive as a whole. Not knocking anyone who is conservative but that's just the path the country has been on.
I just don't see the point in trying to change minds as it won't happen and it's not in (immediate) danger. He will not be president. I'm going to go on a limb and say we won't see a R president for quite some time after this. I just don't see it for our country. Not saying I agree, just how it seems.
I'm pro choice but I can see why people are pro life. It's a really sensitive topic for people.
I think that is being complacent and is a dangerous way to think. I used to think Roe V. Wade was a given, but I don't believe that anymore. And while Trump may not be our next President there are still many elected officials that think like him and would love to change the law. I also think the GOP is going to spend the next few years really grooming a strong but more moderate candidate and may very well have a 2020 victory. So there is a very real danger IMO.
I can see that. I don't mean to sound or be complacent. I support R v W but I guess it just feels that the country overall seems to support pro-choice, gay marriage, and more left leaning ideals.
I really wish we could get social issues and religion out of politics all together. Focus on foreign policy, our economy, education , sensible gun control and healthcare. Rights are rights. What you chose to do with your rights should be left to individuals, so long as they don't infringe on other's rights. Secure civil liberties, once and for all, and fix the bigger, much more real problems.
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| Posted 10/20/16 10:39 AM |
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PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken
Member since 6/11 9145 total posts
Name:
Phyllis
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by LInMI
Posted by ChilisWife
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Posted by stinger
Yikes re: Roe v Wade
That alone may have just won it for her
Not for those voters who are pro-life. Here on LI it may seem like everyone is pro-choice but that is not the case in many parts of the country.
I would hardly say this is the reason why she would win the nomination.
Like the PP said it may be a hot topic on here, but in general abortion (on both sides of the isles) isn't even a top voting issues in the 2016 election for most people (according to PewResearch...not me). The majority (NOT ALL) of voters this year are more concerned with the economy, terrorism, foreign policy, and health care.
i AM also concerned about the other topics. But the thought of having my basic rights taken from me (not me personally, but women) hits me hard.
For me, I've always been more left w social issues and more mid/right everywhere else. Which is why I'm reg as independent. I have and will continue to fight for equal rights (race, religion, sex and sexual orientation) the right for ALL to marry was amazing to me.
The government should stay out of our bodies and bedrooms.
I know both candidates are fighting for female voters. I really think that the Roe V. Wade statements made will give her a bigger push.
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| Posted 10/20/16 10:40 AM |
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PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken
Member since 6/11 9145 total posts
Name:
Phyllis
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Isn't this kind of silly? He's not going to win, the right (meaning the pols, not everyday people) have really done themselves in.
Roe V Wade will be the same as it is. I think the majority of America has become more progressive as a whole. Not knocking anyone who is conservative but that's just the path the country has been on.
I just don't see the point in trying to change minds as it won't happen and it's not in (immediate) danger. He will not be president. I'm going to go on a limb and say we won't see a R president for quite some time after this. I just don't see it for our country. Not saying I agree, just how it seems.
I'm pro choice but I can see why people are pro life. It's a really sensitive topic for people.
I think that is being complacent and is a dangerous way to think. I used to think Roe V. Wade was a given, but I don't believe that anymore. And while Trump may not be our next President there are still many elected officials that think like him and would love to change the law. I also think the GOP is going to spend the next few years really grooming a strong but more moderate candidate and may very well have a 2020 victory. So there is a very real danger IMO.
I can see that. I don't mean to sound or be complacent. I support R v W but I guess it just feels that the country overall seems to support pro-choice, gay marriage, and more left leaning ideals.
I really wish we could get social issues and religion out of politics all together. Focus on foreign policy, our economy, education , sensible gun control and healthcare. Rights are rights. What you chose to do with your rights should be left to individuals, so long as they don't infringe on other's rights. Secure civil liberties, once and for all, and fix the bigger, much more real problems.
This x1000
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| Posted 10/20/16 10:41 AM |
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Joann
LIF Infant
Member since 9/12 360 total posts
Name:
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by ohbaby08
Prior to me being born, my mother had to have an abortion when she contracted german measles (rubella) and it caused the fetus to have brain damage. To all the pro-life people, don't dare sit on your high horses and tell me that she should have been made to carry that baby to term when it would have had zero quality of life.
Exactly. It's very easy to sit on your high horse of morality until you have walked in someone else's shoes.
Someone very close to me had to terminate at 24 weeks because the baby had Trisomy 13 (Patau Syndrome)...should she have been forced to carry the baby to term (which was unlikely), let it die in utero or stillborn? Could anyone else make a decision on what was best for her, both physically and emotionally? The trauma of a diagnosis like that...it's lasting effects...why shouldn't she have been allowed to control her narrative and her experience and her closure with the situation? OK, so maybe SHE was not in any medical danger, but what quality of life would the baby have had, if it even made it to term? Clubbed feet, deformed arms and flippers for hands, deformed skull and brain development. My god I am pregnant right now and this is killing me even reliving just by writing this out. She should have been forced to endure that kind of agony? She had to get some semblance of closure, no?
The best possible outcome any woman could hope for is a healthy pregnancy. It's not always the case. I could never in good conscience police another womens body. I have to trust my fellow women that they are making the best possible decisions for themselves and/or families.
I feel for your friend..she must have been so heartbroken. Hillary was referencing people like your friend..women who find out during the second half of their pregnancies that the baby is not healthy..or that their own lives are in danger. These women have to make heartbreaking decisions.
It's not that Democrats are pro- abortion. They are pro choice. They believe that the decision to terminate a pregnancy should be made by a woman, in consultation with her doctor, and that the government should not interfere.
As far as Trump's reference to a baby being ripped out of the womb at 9 months on it's due date, that is a C-section.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:02 AM |
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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
Name:
Me speaks pirate!
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Isn't this kind of silly? He's not going to win, the right (meaning the pols, not everyday people) have really done themselves in.
Roe V Wade will be the same as it is. I think the majority of America has become more progressive as a whole. Not knocking anyone who is conservative but that's just the path the country has been on.
I just don't see the point in trying to change minds as it won't happen and it's not in (immediate) danger. He will not be president. I'm going to go on a limb and say we won't see a R president for quite some time after this. I just don't see it for our country. Not saying I agree, just how it seems.
I'm pro choice but I can see why people are pro life. It's a really sensitive topic for people.
I think that is being complacent and is a dangerous way to think. I used to think Roe V. Wade was a given, but I don't believe that anymore. And while Trump may not be our next President there are still many elected officials that think like him and would love to change the law. I also think the GOP is going to spend the next few years really grooming a strong but more moderate candidate and may very well have a 2020 victory. So there is a very real danger IMO.
I can see that. I don't mean to sound or be complacent. I support R v W but I guess it just feels that the country overall seems to support pro-choice, gay marriage, and more left leaning ideals.
I really wish we could get social issues and religion out of politics all together. Focus on foreign policy, our economy, education , sensible gun control and healthcare. Rights are rights. What you chose to do with your rights should be left to individuals, so long as they don't infringe on other's rights. Secure civil liberties, once and for all, and fix the bigger, much more real problems.
only then would we ever start to make some real progress in this country with the REAL problems we face.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:10 AM |
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jlm2008
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
Name:
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by JP826
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by ElizaRags35
Which is exactly why it shouldn't be.
I was just pointing out that while RvW gives women the right to legal abortion, the states have their own sets of laws about it, so wouldn't the point of the OP's suggestion that the states be given the right to set laws regarding abortion be moot since that technically happens already?
The states do set their own laws BUT it has to be legal (despite loop holes and trigger laws). Overturn the ruling and they can just make it disappear all together. And many would.
I find this very scary. Very.
I am sorry but I still say I cannot imagine being FORCED to carry a pregnancy.
It won't affect me because I'm getting up there in age and by the time anything would change I'll probably be out of child rearing years, but I think of my daughter having to live in a country with no choice around HER body.
So so scary.
But the thing is - its not the WOMANS body being killed, its the FETUS.
Long after the abortion, the mother continues to live her life, and in many cases, goes on to get pregnant again....
What about the fetus? That life never had a chance.
Unless the mothers life is as risk, to me that is murder. Sorry, I feel so very strongly about this issue.
Don't be sorry, but be warned you will be flogged on this site. Especially by the main nasty 3. Don't even bother trying to express your feelings or opinion.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:15 AM |
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jlm2008
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
Name:
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by Pumpkin1
Posted by JP826
Heartbeat = LIFE
That is a religious belief, not a political one, and it is also not a belief shared by all religions.
Not religious, it's science.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:16 AM |
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by jlm2008
Especially by the main nasty 3.
Nasty woman. Where have I heard that lately?
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:17 AM |
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Message edited 10/20/2016 11:18:34 AM.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:18 AM |
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by jlm2008
Not religious, it's science.
Nope. Not by medical definitions.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:19 AM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by jlm2008
Especially by the main nasty 3.
Nasty woman. Where have I heard that lately?
Nasty!
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:19 AM |
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by NervousNell
Nasty!
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:20 AM |
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jlm2008
LIF Adult
Member since 1/10 5092 total posts
Name:
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
Posted by seaside
Posted by JP826
Posted by BaseballWidow
It is NOT a person and therefore does not have rights. The woman carrying the fetus does, however. A right to decided what she needs to do for herself and her family. As an actual person responsible for herself and possibly other people, already.
I seriously want to know how many people so opposed to abortion have actually gone out, supported a woman emotionally, physically and financially through her entire pregnancy and then went on to adopt her child. Your "beliefs" do not supersede anyone's rights.
Heartbeat = LIFE
I respect your belief. May I ask (genuinely, respectfully asking)--how you and others who share this view feel pre-heartbeat, and even about craeting, but not using some embryos in the course of ivf? Genuinely interested.
I of course expect to be berated , because that is what most of the lovely ladies on this site who don't agree do, but I personally do not believe in IVF or any un natural means of conceiving a child. Which means I'm basically not having kids, since I'm already 38.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:20 AM |
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ChilisWife
God Bless America
Member since 5/05 3572 total posts
Name:
A.K.
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Re: Final Presidential Debate
I am very conservative but am very reluctantly pro-choice only because of some of the reasons noted above in this thread. However I do believe abortion terminates a life. For me, after seeing a heartbeat at a 6 week sonogram, I could never pretend its just a clump of cells. Honestly if a woman was happily pregnant and wanted that baby, and G-d forbid a drunk driver caused her to lose it in an accident, that mother would no doubt believe that driver killed her child. Ideally there wouldnt be a need for abortion but of course there is rape, there is medical issues, there is poverty and drug mother concerns.....I get it. But I think what upsets a lot of people are the women who use abortion as birth control under the battle cry of "its my uterus." Maybe it is, but there are many laws and restrictions on our right to control our bodies - such as mandating vaccines, outlawing assisted suicide, heck even saying what size sugary soda I can drink! I personally do not feel like the world is out to attack "women" but only women can get pregnant. Like I said, I support Roe v Wade but do have trouble with it.
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| Posted 10/20/16 11:22 AM |
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