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emilylives
biking
Member since 12/09 2163 total posts
Name:
Emily
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by BatGirl9910
This is a difficult question, I did not pick the highest nor the lowest salary option, and don't really have time to read all the responses posted on this thread but I will offer only some insight to this debate:
I'm an attorney and have 6 years experience as an attorney under my belt (10 years if I include my time working as a law clerk after graduating from law school in 2001). My salary right now (base, not including bonuses or income from my 2nd part time job) is not even 100K. Considering the fact that I had a double major/minor in college with a great GPA, had to deal with the LSAT, law school admissions, the BAR EXAM and bi-annual NY Attorney Registration Fees, plus student loan debt on top - it seems only fair that lawyers should demand a higher salary but unfortunately, lawyers these days are a dime a dozen and millions of entry level attorneys are earning barely 45-55K after graduation (and thats IF they can land a law related position).
Another attorney friend of mine works for the NYC Department of Environmental Protection as a compliance attorney - his salary is only $78K, and he has been practicing 10 years as well. He has to work weekends sometimes because of budget deadlines set by his department.
Teachers with 10 years experience and no extra credentials to their name other than a regular BA should not be getting 100K in my book. Sorry. I know teachers work hard, but for every great teacher that influences a young mind, there are 3 other teachers who are exorting taxpayers' money sitting in the rubber room playing Solitaire.
so no -I dont think 100K or even 80K is a fair salary. Between 50 and 80K would be just fine.
I know this is beating a dead horse, but although I'm not a teacher, I find this really offensive. First for the reasons listed above. You obviously don't know what credentials are necessary to be a teacher, so I'm not sure why you felt it was appropriate to come on here and say that you deserve more than a teacher. Second, you think that there are three times the amount of teachers in a rubber room than there are teaching in classrooms? WOW. That's one BIG rubber room.
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Posted 2/24/11 9:10 AM  |
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LL514
LIF Adult
Member since 4/10 1901 total posts
Name:
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
you are required to have a masters degree to maintain your certification. in addition with the new professional certification we are required to log 175 hours of professional hours every 5 years just to maintain our certification.
yes you deserve a great salary for all that you have done to educate yourself and become and stay the lawyer you are today. but so do i.
and that tidbit about the rubber room is you completely falling for all the hype about bad teachers. there are no "rubber rooms" FULL of teachers on long island
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| Posted 2/24/11 9:20 AM |
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by emilylives
Posted by BatGirl9910
Teachers with 10 years experience and no extra credentials to their name other than a regular BA should not be getting 100K in my book. Sorry. I know teachers work hard, but for every great teacher that influences a young mind, there are 3 other teachers who are exorting taxpayers' money sitting in the rubber room playing Solitaire.
so no -I dont think 100K or even 80K is a fair salary. Between 50 and 80K would be just fine.
I know this is beating a dead horse, but although I'm not a teacher, I find this really offensive. First for the reasons listed above. You obviously don't know what credentials are necessary to be a teacher, so I'm not sure why you felt it was appropriate to come on here and say that you deserve more than a teacher. Second, you think that there are three times the amount of teachers in a rubber room than there are teaching in classrooms? WOW. That's one BIG rubber room.
I have to jump on the "three teachers in a rubber room for every one teacher teaching" comment too because it's inaccurate. The system would not be able to function if 75% of the teaching force was in the rubber room.
There are no more rubber rooms anyway. Most of those teachers were placed in non-teaching positions in schools if they were awaiting hearings. They were also a NYC thing- I do not know of any rubber rooms on LI- but maybe an LI teacher can clarify that.
On LI and even in the city, a teacher would also not get to the 10 year mark without a Master's and permanent certification. There was a time when one could have gotten away without in the city but no longer- there are so many people looking for jobs that if someone did not have the masters within the 5 year time frame a district would not think twice about cutting them loose. I think I can safely say that there are NO teachers anywhere on LI or NYC with ten years and no advanced degree. I'd be stunned to hear otherwise.
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| Posted 2/24/11 9:26 AM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by emilylives
As much as I agree that teachers deserve to be paid very well, I find it somewhat off-putting that people keep listing out all the things that they do and how it's going above and beyond.
I think the reason that teachers deserve high salaries and good benefits is that they are educating the next generation, and we should be rewarding that in order to attract people to these professions. WAY more people from top schools go into banking than teaching, because money makes the world go round, and people are afraid of not having enough. That to me is really sad, and it's one of the reasons that our education system is struggling so much (not to say that there aren't great teachers, because there obviously ARE, but it would be great to attract even more).
So back to my original point, I feel like by constantly reiterating how teachers go above and beyond you're (and the you I'm referring to is any teacher that has made a point like this on one of these threads) actually fueling the fire of the opposition. People in the private sector are dealing with things that aren't in their job description, working nights and weekends, taking their work (both practically and emotionally) home with them, worrying about work, being judged by superiors and clients, no pension, no 401K matching, expensive health benefits, constant fear of losing their job. None of this sets you (again, you plural) apart from anyone else, so I don't see how it adds to your argument.
I do understand that you feel as if you need to defend yourself against people who are questioning. I just feel listing all your hardships isn't proving the point. Talk about the fact that you transform kids' lives...that they come in one person and leave another. That you inspire kids to become what they eventually become. You DESERVE your pay. Not because of the stuff I listed above, but because your work matters and it's critical to the future of our society.
Perfectly said. Exactly what I was thinking. And to add about tenure, no one in the private sector has that. We are all at will employees in this state. We can get canned for no reason whatsoever.
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| Posted 2/24/11 9:38 AM |
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mdn13
LIF Toddler
Member since 8/07 408 total posts
Name:
Marcie
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by Blu-ize
Posted by emilylives
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Perfectly said. Exactly what I was thinking. And to add about tenure, no one in the private sector has that. We are all at will employees in this state. We can get canned for no reason whatsoever.
Once again TENURE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT GUARANTEE OF A JOB. IT IS a guarantee of DUE PROCESS before being fired!
That being said, if you are so jealous (that's exactly how you sound) of our right to a fair process maybe you should work on fighting for that in the field you are in, rather than being so angry at other people's professions that have it better than you. In my opinion, we ALL deserve due process.
Focus on doing better for yourself rather than making it worse for others.
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| Posted 2/24/11 10:25 AM |
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by mdn13
Once again TENURE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT GUARANTEE OF A JOB. IT IS a guarantee of DUE PROCESS before being fired!
You are correct. However, this seems to be one of those things that people either ignore or refuse to accept.
I know many people who work in the private sector and I have worked non-teaching jobs as well, in retail and in offices. I have never met anyone who was fired "for no reason". Is that a huge phenomenon?
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| Posted 2/24/11 10:32 AM |
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MissJones
I need a nap!
Member since 5/05 22139 total posts
Name:
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Once again TENURE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT GUARANTEE OF A JOB. IT IS a guarantee of DUE PROCESS before being fired!
THANK YOU!!!!! Tenure is basically to ensure that a teacher can't be fired based upon false accusations from parents or students or administrators. It also allows for a FAIR hearing.
Trust me, I have tenure. I have been teaching for 7 years. I don't walk around thinking my job is safe b/c of tenure. I know I could be laid off this summer. Tenure is NOT job security.
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| Posted 2/24/11 10:37 AM |
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WhatNow
Say Cheese!
Member since 1/06 8033 total posts
Name:
A (formerly WhatNow?)
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Considering the shorter hours and amount of paid vacations way exceeding the average in all other industries, I don't think teachers should be paid over $100.
I would imagine, between $50 and $80 according to experience, effort and location. I also think the merit for higher salary should be according to the level of dedication and student/parent reviews, not the amount of years spent on the job.
There are so many wonderful teachers out there and I am grateful that my son is thought by one of them, a dedicated professional who loves children and always looking for ways to better their learning experience. However, the horror stories I have heard from some parents make me believe that for ever wonderful teacher out there there is a not so wonderful one, making you wonder why someone who doesn't even like children went into that field in the first place. This is why I think it's important to concentrate on level of dedication rather than years of service.
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| Posted 2/24/11 10:54 AM |
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
Name:
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by mdn13
Once again TENURE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT GUARANTEE OF A JOB. IT IS a guarantee of DUE PROCESS before being fired!
Yes but the due process is VERY long and complicated and if any paper or date is not met, the teacher can file a grievance and can either extend it out or just fight it. It makes it very hard to get fired.
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| Posted 2/24/11 11:52 AM |
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Blu-ize
Plan B is Now Plan A
Member since 7/05 32475 total posts
Name:
Susan
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by mdn13
Posted by Blu-ize
Posted by emilylives
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Perfectly said. Exactly what I was thinking. And to add about tenure, no one in the private sector has that. We are all at will employees in this state. We can get canned for no reason whatsoever.
Once again TENURE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT GUARANTEE OF A JOB. IT IS a guarantee of DUE PROCESS before being fired!
That being said, if you are so jealous (that's exactly how you sound) of our right to a fair process maybe you should work on fighting for that in the field you are in, rather than being so angry at other people's professions that have it better than you. In my opinion, we ALL deserve due process.
Focus on doing better for yourself rather than making it worse for others.
Not angry just telling it like it is. I don't care if other professions have things I don't. I have things the other professions don't. Just don't down play tenure. There is none of that in the private sector. No hearing before you are fired, you are gone.
Happens every single day.
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| Posted 2/24/11 12:13 PM |
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DiamondGirl
You are my I love you
Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
Name:
DiamondMama
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by Blu-ize
Posted by mdn13
Posted by Blu-ize
Posted by emilylives
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Perfectly said. Exactly what I was thinking. And to add about tenure, no one in the private sector has that. We are all at will employees in this state. We can get canned for no reason whatsoever.
Once again TENURE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT GUARANTEE OF A JOB. IT IS a guarantee of DUE PROCESS before being fired!
That being said, if you are so jealous (that's exactly how you sound) of our right to a fair process maybe you should work on fighting for that in the field you are in, rather than being so angry at other people's professions that have it better than you. In my opinion, we ALL deserve due process.
Focus on doing better for yourself rather than making it worse for others.
Not angry just telling it like it is. I don't care if other professions have things I don't. I have things the other professions don't. Just don't down play tenure. There is none of that in the private sector. No hearing before you are fired, you are gone.
Happens every single day.
Yes and you went into YOUR job knowing that there was no due process and I went into MY job knowing there was.
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| Posted 2/24/11 12:22 PM |
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jasmine
little boy blue <3
Member since 10/10 1475 total posts
Name:
x
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by WhatNow
Considering the shorter hours and amount of paid vacations way exceeding the average in all other industries, I don't think teachers should be paid over $100.
I would imagine, between $50 and $80 according to experience, effort and location. I also think the merit for higher salary should be according to the level of dedication and student/parent reviews, not the amount of years spent on the job.
I agree
Message edited 2/24/2011 12:23:26 PM.
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| Posted 2/24/11 12:23 PM |
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MissJones
I need a nap!
Member since 5/05 22139 total posts
Name:
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by Blu-ize
Posted by mdn13
Posted by Blu-ize
Posted by emilylives
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Perfectly said. Exactly what I was thinking. And to add about tenure, no one in the private sector has that. We are all at will employees in this state. We can get canned for no reason whatsoever.
Once again TENURE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT GUARANTEE OF A JOB. IT IS a guarantee of DUE PROCESS before being fired!
That being said, if you are so jealous (that's exactly how you sound) of our right to a fair process maybe you should work on fighting for that in the field you are in, rather than being so angry at other people's professions that have it better than you. In my opinion, we ALL deserve due process.
Focus on doing better for yourself rather than making it worse for others.
Not angry just telling it like it is. I don't care if other professions have things I don't. I have things the other professions don't. Just don't down play tenure. There is none of that in the private sector. No hearing before you are fired, you are gone.
Happens every single day.
Yes, but...teachers work with children. Could you imagine this scenario? Student receives poor grade. Parent is unhappy. Parent tells child to accuse teacher of inappropriate touching. Without tenure, that teacher could EASILY be fired b/c of a lie. Parents and children lie!!!
Tenure ensures a FAIR hearing. Should the process, which can be LONG and drawn out, be evaluated? Absolutely! But to do away with it completely would be disastrous!
But people need to get away from the idea that tenure = job security. Trust me, I've been teaching for 7 years. I do NOT feel that my job is secure AT ALL!!! But I do appreciate that I would be guaranteed a fair hearing rather than lose my job immediately if some parent had a bug up their a$$ over a grade.
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| Posted 2/24/11 12:25 PM |
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MrsYank
She's here :)
Member since 4/07 3238 total posts
Name:
Mrs. Yank
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Actually, tenure was created so teachers could advocate for their students with out being penalized.
and, I can't believe this thread is still going on.
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| Posted 2/24/11 12:39 PM |
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Bridex100
Two Under Two Mommy
Member since 3/08 10420 total posts
Name:
Momx100
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
I haven't read the whole thread.
I don't know anyone who thinks teachers are overpaid. I think teaching is an honorable job but it is one of those jobs that just don't pay that well.
I'm not sure how much teachers get paid exactly. I do know my one friend in MA makes less than $40k per year and works very hard. She chose her profession for the love of teaching knowing that she will never have a lucrative career.
I think $40-80k seems fair since teachers have good hours and a lot of time off. I'm a firm believer that compensation should be merit based. I don't know if this is the case or not but I would think that a top rated school district or for profit private school would pay teachers more money if they have better credentials and teaching accolades. Those teachers should probably be paid more.
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| Posted 2/24/11 12:53 PM |
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dfw343
LIF Infant
Member since 7/10 246 total posts
Name:
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
I think teachers deserve good money esp with all the over crowding in schools.
But what if you are like me, no kids, and my taxes in NYC are through the roof? I have no pension. My husband is a small biz owner who pays school tax with hisi business..and a lot! It's crazy!
Also, when going to my step child's school for a BB game, we went to the bathroom. It was disgusting, I feel with the taxes her parents pay, she should have a decent bathroom. So shouldn't your kids get a nicer bathroom instead of the teacher getting 5 k more a year when they already have a fat pension and summers off?
I can see both sides though.
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| Posted 2/24/11 1:30 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by dfw343
Also, when going to my step child's school for a BB game, we went to the bathroom. It was disgusting, I feel with the taxes her parents pay, she should have a decent bathroom. So shouldn't your kids get a nicer bathroom instead of the teacher getting 5 k more a year when they already have a fat pension and summers off?
Doesn't that sound like a custodian issue rather than a teaching one?
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| Posted 2/24/11 1:40 PM |
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dfw343
LIF Infant
Member since 7/10 246 total posts
Name:
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by dfw343
Also, when going to my step child's school for a BB game, we went to the bathroom. It was disgusting, I feel with the taxes her parents pay, she should have a decent bathroom. So shouldn't your kids get a nicer bathroom instead of the teacher getting 5 k more a year when they already have a fat pension and summers off?
Doesn't that sound like a custodian issue rather than a teaching one?
no I meant falling apart and old.
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| Posted 2/24/11 1:41 PM |
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MrsYank
She's here :)
Member since 4/07 3238 total posts
Name:
Mrs. Yank
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by dfw343
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by dfw343
Also, when going to my step child's school for a BB game, we went to the bathroom. It was disgusting, I feel with the taxes her parents pay, she should have a decent bathroom. So shouldn't your kids get a nicer bathroom instead of the teacher getting 5 k more a year when they already have a fat pension and summers off?
Doesn't that sound like a custodian issue rather than a teaching one?
no I meant falling apart and old.
Do you have any idea what NYC teachers have to go through?
Trying looking up how much your mayor makes (trust me, it's more than a dollar)
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| Posted 2/24/11 1:51 PM |
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dfw343
LIF Infant
Member since 7/10 246 total posts
Name:
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by MrsYank
Posted by dfw343
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by dfw343
Also, when going to my step child's school for a BB game, we went to the bathroom. It was disgusting, I feel with the taxes her parents pay, she should have a decent bathroom. So shouldn't your kids get a nicer bathroom instead of the teacher getting 5 k more a year when they already have a fat pension and summers off?
Doesn't that sound like a custodian issue rather than a teaching one?
no I meant falling apart and old.
Do you have any idea what NYC teachers have to go through?
Trying looking up how much your mayor makes (trust me, it's more than a dollar)
thats why I say I understand both sides. It's unfair to the teacher and me the taxpayer.
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| Posted 2/24/11 1:53 PM |
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
Name:
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by dfw343
I think teachers deserve good money esp with all the over crowding in schools.
But what if you are like me, no kids, and my taxes in NYC are through the roof? I have no pension. My husband is a small biz owner who pays school tax with hisi business..and a lot! It's crazy!
Also, when going to my step child's school for a BB game, we went to the bathroom. It was disgusting, I feel with the taxes her parents pay, she should have a decent bathroom. So shouldn't your kids get a nicer bathroom instead of the teacher getting 5 k more a year when they already have a fat pension and summers off?
I can see both sides though.
 Is this for real?
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| Posted 2/24/11 1:57 PM |
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juanvi
Get Out!
Member since 10/06 4463 total posts
Name:
Christina
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by BatGirl9910
This is a difficult question, I did not pick the highest nor the lowest salary option, and don't really have time to read all the responses posted on this thread but I will offer only some insight to this debate:
I'm an attorney and have 6 years experience as an attorney under my belt (10 years if I include my time working as a law clerk after graduating from law school in 2001). My salary right now (base, not including bonuses or income from my 2nd part time job) is not even 100K. Considering the fact that I had a double major/minor in college with a great GPA, had to deal with the LSAT, law school admissions, the BAR EXAM and bi-annual NY Attorney Registration Fees, plus student loan debt on top - it seems only fair that lawyers should demand a higher salary but unfortunately, lawyers these days are a dime a dozen and millions of entry level attorneys are earning barely 45-55K after graduation (and thats IF they can land a law related position).
Another attorney friend of mine works for the NYC Department of Environmental Protection as a compliance attorney - his salary is only $78K, and he has been practicing 10 years as well. He has to work weekends sometimes because of budget deadlines set by his department.
Teachers with 10 years experience and no extra credentials to their name other than a regular BA should not be getting 100K in my book. Sorry. I know teachers work hard, but for every great teacher that influences a young mind, there are 3 other teachers who are exorting taxpayers' money sitting in the rubber room playing Solitaire.
so no -I dont think 100K or even 80K is a fair salary. Between 50 and 80K would be just fine.
Just so you know...Teachers who have a "regular" BA don't get paid near 100 grand. I've got a double major BA and 2 Masters had to pass numerous tests so I guess both you AND I (being a teacher) have gone through much academia to be where we are. You are WRONG about the 3 to 1 ratio of bad to good teacher. I agree, the rubber room thing is terrible but administration can be partially blamed for that. Those teachers should have never rec. tenure.
My brother is a lawyer and I would say
that we worked equally hard and spent the same amount of money on an education. I don't think lawyers should make SO much more money than a teacher IMO which is what you seem to infer in your post.
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| Posted 2/24/11 1:57 PM |
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mom2aidan
2 boys & 1 girl :)
Member since 11/06 1874 total posts
Name:
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
Posted by WhatNow
I also think the merit for higher salary should be according to the level of dedication and student/parent reviews,
I cannot disagree with this more.
You have no idea how many vindictive parents/students are out there. Some parents deal with very real emotional issues.
I've seen parents SO MANY TIMES go to the superintendent and the school board because their child didn't receive the grade they wanted them to receive. Even after a teacher justifies the grade, parents complain incessantly. Better yet, their child does not meet the criteria to enter advanced classes. They begin 6th grade in a "regular" class. Their plan of action is to attack the teacher by saying that she is not challenging the student, not differentiating the instruction so as to force the administration's hand and get the advanced placement. It's terrible. The burden of proof is on the teacher, not the parent.
I understand NOT EVERY PARENT IS LIKE THIS - but there are enough that would make this a VERY bad idea.
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| Posted 2/24/11 2:00 PM |
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dfw343
LIF Infant
Member since 7/10 246 total posts
Name:
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
what is it about my post that makes you laugh? I was stating my opinion as others have based on my experience. I don't think I was offending anyone.
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| Posted 2/24/11 2:01 PM |
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sometimesmommy
Always in my heart.....
Member since 11/06 6686 total posts
Name:
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Re: If you could suggest a salary for a teacher...
I think btw 40-80K is more than fair. Especially coupled with other perks of the job. But honestly I feel like teaching alot like many other professions are getting away from quality and focusing more on $$. No one should get more money just because they are a teacher etc. They should get more because they deserve it not because a union or a group deems it necessary.
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| Posted 2/24/11 2:03 PM |
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