Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

Posted by dm24angel

Posted by medic6809

Posted by dm24angel

Posted by Mommy2Boys

Posted by medic6809

Posted by dm24angel

Tolerance, equality, acceptance, understanding and the like.

Gender stereotypes restrict some people from being who they REALLY are because they feel judged. Sexuality and gender identity do not need to be black and white ( or pink and blue )...

I think this is an extreme example of what you're saying. Just because I would not paint my DS's nails pink does not mean I would teaching him to be narrow minded and mean. Just because I believe in clear gender roles doesn't mean that I am teaching my dd to judge people. I did not judge this mother, but I did comment that I wouldn't do that. Just because people differ doesn't mean that we're not for social acceptance. I am all for people being themselves, but I have to say I think in some ways we are losing focus. Being yourself is different then proving a point and being a martyr. This ad was clearly to get people talking and to promote her brand. I honestly don't think it was to promote gender equality.

Your taking it completly out of context now and making it about your statement.

MY statement was in regards to why this ISSUE is or would have an impact on society , as I quoted those statements.


I'm talking about the BACKLASH and ridiculous comments JCREW received because of this.

THAT is the problem. And that is the question that I responded to.

I have no opinion on whethe ryou or anyone chooses to do this or no. Thats actually NOT have this thread was really about...but the reaction this ad caused and thats distinct IMO.

Once again, not even interested in what the point was of the AD and its details. It was the people on FOX news as an example and their rididulous statements that leads us far far away from 'forward' in our thinking.

Hope that cleared up what i was quoting/referring to.

Wow that was a bit harsh. My comment was directed to your statement:

"Tolerance, equality, acceptance, understanding and the like.

Gender stereotypes restrict some people from being who they REALLY are because they feel judged. Sexuality and gender identity do not need to be black and white ( or pink and blue"

And if you want to be back on topic how is this relevant to a little boy painting his nails pink, honestly? Does that mean if I have a DS and I choose to not do this I am not allowing him to be who he really is? That is where I'm coming from with my statements. It was posted earlier that somebody thought they were in 1950 with these comments. Just because somebody doesn't agree doesn't mean we are or would restrict somebody from being who they are. Furthermore the whole point of this thread was to discuss this, and yes people will disagree. Just because I was taken a back by your comment doesn't mean I was trying to push my own issue. I was trying to explain why this comment irked me just as you posted back about why mine irked you.

It wasn't harsh, or at least I didnt mean it to be at all. sorry if I came across that way.

I think we got confused with all the quoting.

Someone said they lost hope in the future generations, and then a poster responded, what kind of hope wer eyou looking for, and thats 'specifically' what I responded to.

not about ANYONES choices.

I think that the losing hope comment came from the fact that this AD was all over the news making or stirring up ridiculous comments about gender etc. That is very outdated IMO. So I responded in what I think the 'poor' reactions to this ad would stifle.

I agree with everything you said otherwise. No, I do not believe that NOT painting someones nails will bring harm either.

I think we are talking about two different aspects of this debate here and thus confusion.

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

To be perfectly honest, I think this ad is ridiculous. To each is own but I would not allow my son to wear pink nail polish.

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

My nephew (from my husbands side of the family) is a twin...his twin is a girl. He goes with her and his mom for pedicures all summer long. It appalls me and my husbands other brother (not the dad of the boy getting pedis). My sis-in-law says he wants to do what his sister does...he also dresses up in princess dresses sometimes when they play. I get him playing with his sister and stuff like that...but taking my son for a pedicure is a bit much in my opinion. He doesn't go for the hot pink but he does go for electric blue with sparkles....I have a problem with this. Just not necessary. Would tell him it is just not something that little boys do. I recently went with them for pedis and it was somewhat embarassing...everyone in the place was looking at him funny and you know those rude nail ladies - they were laughing and talking in their language to each other just staring and laughing. It's odd IMO.

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

Posted by jprimrose

Posted by Xelindrya

Posted by Mommy2Boys

Posted by Stacey1403

Posted by headoverheels

Posted by annoyedTTCer

This is truly a sad thread.

How can we have an hope for future generations when some people are so easily freaked out by painted toenails?


Feel like I work up in 1951

Love this. Thank you. I completely agree.

Me too!!!!

What kind of hope are you hoping for future generation by painting a boys toenails bright pink?

To be honest I dont understand why the new "thing" is for people to be so liberal in letting girls dress like boys like Brangelina's kid and letting boys wear hot pink nail polish? I'm confused. What's wrong with girls being girls and boys being boys?

I dont mean to be snarky but.. thats the problem. I feel we don't LET boys be boys and girls be girls we FORM them into the boys and girls we are TOLD is normal. You can see it in the store, girls play with kitchens and dolls boys have trucks and heros. Why?

I have a daughter (ok I wanted a boy) but the point is. NOTHING is outside her reach. If she wants to be a construction worker GO For it! I actually insure a badbutt woman construction owner right now who knows her stuff big time but wears nice skirts and sports a 8ct diamond ring!

Men shouldn't paint nails, really? Come on. Most famous designers are men and they aren't gay. Men can be artisitic who cares?

Boys be boys and girls be girls. Fine. isn't the point of childhood to experiment with self idenity and test the world while we ARE NOT held back by public norms?

I know I wore bright pink nail polish as a girl but certainly wouldn't wear it now. Same goes for the neon blue eyeshadow and purple lipstick. Heck I don't even WEAR makeup!

So he has nail polish on his toes, who cares? I don't think it would make him less likely to go play in sand or search for frogs that it would me when I was that age.

Why not just let KIDS be KIDS and enjoy the innocents and freedom of being young?

Oh and the idea that there are things boys do and things girls do annoys me. I guess you could say that's why men will make more money and women wont because thats what men do and thats what women do? We try to groom our children to equality but then force them into our own stereotypes.

Well said!! I totally agree.

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

I have no issues with it. Little boys love their mommies and want to do what they do. They don't understand society's ideas of gender and what is approptiate.
The kid is having a bonding moment with his mom and will not have identity issues because of it. Everything gets so blwon out of proportion these days.

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

I think this thread is very interesting - partially because I am dealing with some of these issues right now.
DS is almost 2 and has longish hair - I have had numerous people tell me he needs a haircut cuz he's going to be mistaken for a girl (hasn't happened yet). We went to the Crocs outlet to get him Crocs for the summer and the ones he liked and wanted to wear were yellow so I bought them, again a number of people telling me bright yellow Crocs are girly and I shouldn't have gotten him them. Oh, and we were in a Payless with a friend last week and he put on white MaryJanes and was walking around in them

Really people? Is it sooo necessary to lock our children into gender specific roles so early? Colin plays with his trucks and cars as often as he plays with his kitchen...I seriously don't think I'm going to screw my son up by allowing him to explore ALL the things in life. I'm hoping he develops a more secure sense of self by being able to explore and learn as much as possible about the world around him. and if he wants to paint his nails in the process then so be it. My 4yo nephew has his toenails done all summer and noone thinks twice about it - he doesn't seem any more feminine - he's 4

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

I didn't read all the posts, but I have 2 boys (2 and 4) and they would probably have so much fun and love it if I painted their toenails pink. I wouldn't do, but only because I don't like the chemicals in nail polish.

I have a hard time dealing with the fact that some people around me think they have to push gender stereo-types on my boys. I don't like it at all. It's OK for boys to like pink and to like doing fun silly things with their moms.

Let kids be kids, let's not put them into little gender boxes.

Message edited 4/16/2011 10:01:16 AM.

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

Message edited 4/16/2011 9:57:24 AM.

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

I have a 2.5 year old girl. I will NOT let her paint her nails (even though she has asked). I don't see this changing at 3, or 4.


Regardless of gender, too early for make-up/ nail polish.

I've thought a lot about this, why do I paint my nails occassionally? What is it I'm trying to put/forth say? Is some of it that I want to express my feminity? Sure. Is the rest of it because I work in an environment where the 'put together' women are always flawless? Yes.

Do I want my daughter (or son) to feel like they also have to do so? No way jose. No nailpolish for her (or him, if I ever have one).

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

You know, I've actually thought more about this since my original post. I said I'd probably do it but that I wouldn't be thrilled.

Here are my updated thoughts: If my son (or daughters) turned out to be gay, I'd be the first one out there on Christopher Street wrapped in a rainbow flag marching in the gay parade right along with them.

I don't understand how not wanting your son to paint his nails neon pink=homophobia.

I wouldn't let my daughter shave her hair into a mohawk at age five just as I wouldn't let my son grow his hair down to his a$$ at age five. I have rules and expectations for my children at the ages they are now (5, 4, 6 mos) and honestly, too bad if they don't like it...I'm the mom. When they are 12 we can have a different conversation...

That is all.

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

I'm finding so many of these comments sad, and so disheartening Particularly the posts that say that there are some things that are reserved for girls, and other things that are reserved for boys. The problem with this thought process is that there are MANY, many girls and boys, who don't conform to those "stereotypes" of what constitutes "normal" girl activities, and "normal" boy activities. Many of these people are LGBT, but the truth is, there are also many heterosexual individuals who break those barriers, and explore what are considered another sex's normal activities. Without those people, I don't know that we would have all of the rights that we do, as women, including our right to vote, and equal pay, as just a few short decades ago, those right were more appropriately considered "boy" activities.

I realize this may be a novel concept, but much of this idea that there are some activities that should be for girls, and some activities that should be for boys, is actually a violation of the law, if directed against anyone who breaks those concepts, in the school setting. It's considered "sex/gender stereotyping", and if your child teases another child because they don't behave like a typical boy or girl, it is, and should be, considered gender harassment, in violation of Title IX. I have several complaints on my team right now dealing with this exact subject matter; some schools handle it appropriately and discipline the offending students, and do some really intense training for the student population. Others ignore it, feeding into the very same concepts that are being thrown around on this post.

While you may feel that not allowing your little boy to paint his toenails isn't the same as homophobia and teaching him homophobic values, my question is, what happens when he asks you, you tell him it's "not appropriate for a boy", and then he goes into school and sees another little boy with pink nailpolish on his fingers? What is he going to say? Is he going to tell the other little boy, "my mommy told me that it isn't appropriate for a boy?" And how exactly do you think that will make the other little boy feel? Weird? Odd? It's exactly THAT chain reaction that Title IX tries to impede. It's exactly THAT chain reaction that DOES lead to some pretty severe teasing of LGBT students, that I can assure you, starts really, really early.

Those are my two cents as a civil rights attorney who sees this stuff in the complaints we receive everyday. Complaints from parents of children as young as 8, 9, 10 who are relentlessly teased in the school setting because they don't conform to what the other children's parents consider appropriate activities for their sex

Message edited 4/17/2011 7:15:58 AM.

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

We have pics of my little brother running around in a tuttu and heels. He has no gender issues. So stupid, IMO.

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

Posted by Bxgell2

I'm finding so many of these comments sad, and so disheartening Particularly the posts that say that there are some things that are reserved for girls, and other things that are reserved for boys. The problem with this thought process is that there are MANY, many girls and boys, who don't conform to those "stereotypes" of what constitutes "normal" girl activities, and "normal" boy activities. Many of these people are LGBT, but the truth is, there are also many heterosexual individuals who break those barriers, and explore what are considered another sex's normal activities. Without those people, I don't know that we would have all of the rights that we do, as women, including our right to vote, and equal pay, as just a few short decades ago, those right were more appropriately considered "boy" activities.

I realize this may be a novel concept, but much of this idea that there are some activities that should be for girls, and some activities that should be for boys, is actually a violation of the law, if directed against anyone who breaks those concepts, in the school setting. It's considered "sex/gender stereotyping", and if your child teases another child because they don't behave like a typical boy or girl, it is, and should be, considered gender harassment, in violation of Title IX. I have several complaints on my team right now dealing with this exact subject matter; some schools handle it appropriately and discipline the offending students, and do some really intense training for the student population. Others ignore it, feeding into the very same concepts that are being thrown around on this post.

While you may feel that not allowing your little boy to paint his toenails isn't the same as homophobia and teaching him homophobic values, my question is, what happens when he asks you, you tell him it's "not appropriate for a boy", and then he goes into school and sees another little boy with pink nailpolish on his fingers? What is he going to say? Is he going to tell the other little boy, "my mommy told me that it isn't appropriate for a boy?" And how exactly do you think that will make the other little boy feel? Weird? Odd? It's exactly THAT chain reaction that Title IX tries to impede. It's exactly THAT chain reaction that DOES lead to some pretty severe teasing of LGBT students, that I can assure you, starts really, really early.

Those are my two cents as a civil rights attorney who sees this stuff in the complaints we receive everyday. Complaints from parents of children as young as 8, 9, 10 who are relentlessly teased in the school setting because they don't conform to what the other children's parents consider appropriate activities for their sex

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

Thanks Theresa... and Thanks Liza, and THANKS to all the ladies on this board.

This discussion was so relevant and timely for me, because, this week I'm missing two Passover Seder's because I'm hopping on a plane to Pittsburgh and then Erie, tomorrow and Tuesday, to do presentations to both counselors, and middle/high school students about harassment against LGBT students. One of the presentations is to over 350 students.

We have been wracking our brains trying to come up with some good examples to really engage the students; but realized tonight that it would help to have some "visuals" to spark discussion amongst the students.

So, I remembered this post, and brought it up, and we decided we're going to put this Ad up on the screen at the beginning of the presentation, and ask the students for their thoughts, which help us really engage them about gender stereotyping, and how harmful and hurtful it can be, and, frankly, how it is illegal.

So, Liza, an extra special thanks to you for posting this - I hope it will really help us make an impact on them

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

I don't care if another mom paints her son's toes pink, but I will not be painting my son's nails pink. I don't think there's anything wrong in teaching my son that girls wear make-up. If I see a transgender inclination in my son, I will change my stance, but until then I see no point in confusing him.

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

WHY NOT??!!! Come on mommies. they are little children who love to copy what you do boy or girl its fun to paint and they want to paint on their hands and toes that is exciting. who care what color? they dont care they just want the excitement of painting.

Message edited 4/17/2011 8:45:24 PM.

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?

my son will not be wearing pink nailpolish on his toes nor on his nails. i think this ad is ridiculous.

Re: Not sure if this was posted - J Crew ad... Thoughts?