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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
I stand by my earlier statement.
NO MORE PUBLIC SCHOOL. Literally EVERYONE who benefits from public school doesn't pay taxes. EVERYONE.
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Posted 1/21/13 8:26 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by headoverheels
Hmmmm. I wonder who would agree that illegal immigrants and people claiming asylum to get into the US would fall into the category of "bottom feeders."
I certainly wouldn't BUT then who would that term apply to?
Makes you think whether some posters would be trying to make their argument from a different country  Damn bottom feeders! Always looking for a handout 
I am first generation American. Daughter of Italian and Cuban immigrants. I would never insult people who come here to seek a better life. Bottom feeders are people who keep having kids to claim more welfare. I work with a girl who is 27 years old and has FOUR kids and gets a portion of section 8. She brags that she has a bigger apartment than some because she gets federal aid. She buys 10 dollar lunches everyday and gets eyelash extensions that cost a fortune. Really? You want to support people like that? That's not right, I am sorry! Bottom feeders who don't want to work that have been unemployed forever and keep on extending unemployment. I am talking about people that cheat the system. I've seen women with luxury cars and giant diamonds go in and use an EBT card. Really? That's who I am talking about. That's ********!
Of course that's bull shit. But just because you know one person who is like that doesn't mean that everyone in her position (on welfare, unemployement, whatever) is like that. Unemployment saved mine and DH's asses when DH lost his job in '08. He was on it for almost a year while actively trying to get a job. And you know what, we fcuking paid for that. We owed so much money in taxes because of it. Even when a portion was non-taxable (I forget what the deal was with unemployment and taxes were back then) But did we complain? Hell no. We were GRATEFUL that unemployment existed.
And just because you know 1 person, or even 2 people, doesn't mean it's rampant. THAT is bull shit.
Sorry but there are many that cheat the system. I was laid off in 2009 so I feel for you. I too collected for 7 months until I got a job. I get it, trust me I do. My point is yes, I know one or two people but it is known that a lot do cheat the system.
But not nearly as many as those who don't cheat the system.
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:27 PM |
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faerychel
LIF Infant
Member since 7/11 182 total posts
Name:
Chelly
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by MandJZ
I stand by my earlier statement.
NO MORE PUBLIC SCHOOL. Literally EVERYONE who benefits from public school doesn't pay taxes. EVERYONE.
I...just snorted.
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:28 PM |
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sameinitials
insert creative comment here
Member since 2/12 1998 total posts
Name:
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by MrsMick
Yes, she works. She keeps having kids so therefore she gets a portion of section 8 where they provide per child and housing. She has no food in her house, she spends money on herself. It's horseshit. I don't think it's fair to pay ANYTHING to someone like that when they make poor choices. My hubby and I work our asses off for what we have and we pay and pay more and more to help people like this? Sorry, not fair!
I'm not going to weigh in on the rest of this debate, but I did want to mention that maybe you should have some understanding of how a subsidy works before you criticize those on it. There's no such thing as a "portion of section 8." You either have it, or you don't. And Section 8 also does not provide any direct monetary assistance for children.
Section 8 is a federally funded, state administered subsidy, mostly voucher based, in which a person who falls under a certain income level usually pays one-third of their income (and up to 40%) towards rent, with Section 8 paying the rent balance. The rent has to be within the rent limit for the apartment size that is set for each municipality.
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:28 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by HeathKernandez
help from the dept of social services (for childcare) helped me get back to work when I was a single mother... WIC helped me afford his soy formula when he had a milk allergy after I breastfed.
I forgot I'm a card carrying "bottom feeder."
Hi.
My name is Tara. I am also a bottom feeder. I currently collect unemployment. I have two children. If I lose my unemployment, I will then qualify for WIC and likely food stamps to feed my two children who happened to exist PRIOR to my job loss.
Remember, bottom feeders are friends, not food. 
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:28 PM |
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headoverheels
s'il vous plaît
Member since 6/07 42079 total posts
Name:
LB
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by MandJZ
I stand by my earlier statement.
NO MORE PUBLIC SCHOOL. Literally EVERYONE who benefits from public school doesn't pay taxes. EVERYONE.
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:28 PM |
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Kitten1929
LIF Adult
Member since 1/13 6040 total posts
Name:
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by MandJZ
I stand by my earlier statement.
NO MORE PUBLIC SCHOOL. Literally EVERYONE who benefits from public school doesn't pay taxes. EVERYONE.
Public school is for bottom feeders 
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:29 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by faerychel
Posted by MandJZ
I stand by my earlier statement.
NO MORE PUBLIC SCHOOL. Literally EVERYONE who benefits from public school doesn't pay taxes. EVERYONE.
I...just snorted.
Freaking bottom feeders.
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:29 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by Kitten1929
Posted by MandJZ
I stand by my earlier statement.
NO MORE PUBLIC SCHOOL. Literally EVERYONE who benefits from public school doesn't pay taxes. EVERYONE.
Public school is for bottom feeders
Heh. 
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:30 PM |
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faerychel
LIF Infant
Member since 7/11 182 total posts
Name:
Chelly
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by faerychel
Posted by MandJZ
I stand by my earlier statement.
NO MORE PUBLIC SCHOOL. Literally EVERYONE who benefits from public school doesn't pay taxes. EVERYONE.
I...just snorted.
Freaking bottom feeders.
That... was a full 
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:31 PM |
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hopingforbaby
We made a wish & you came true
Member since 2/10 2695 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Ugh and to think all of this started because some troll was bored and wanted to 
Hope this kept you entertained!
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:31 PM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by MandJZ
I stand by my earlier statement.
NO MORE PUBLIC SCHOOL. Literally EVERYONE who benefits from public school doesn't pay taxes. EVERYONE.
FTW
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:32 PM |
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sameinitials
insert creative comment here
Member since 2/12 1998 total posts
Name:
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by headoverheels
Hmmmm. I wonder who would agree that illegal immigrants and people claiming asylum to get into the US would fall into the category of "bottom feeders."
I certainly wouldn't BUT then who would that term apply to?
Makes you think whether some posters would be trying to make their argument from a different country Damn bottom feeders! Always looking for a handout
I am first generation American. Daughter of Italian and Cuban immigrants. I would never insult people who come here to seek a better life. Bottom feeders are people who keep having kids to claim more welfare. I work with a girl who is 27 years old and has FOUR kids and gets a portion of section 8. She brags that she has a bigger apartment than some because she gets federal aid. She buys 10 dollar lunches everyday and gets eyelash extensions that cost a fortune. Really? You want to support people like that? That's not right, I am sorry! Bottom feeders who don't want to work that have been unemployed forever and keep on extending unemployment. I am talking about people that cheat the system. I've seen women with luxury cars and giant diamonds go in and use an EBT card. Really? That's who I am talking about. That's ********!
Of course that's bull shit. But just because you know one person who is like that doesn't mean that everyone in her position (on welfare, unemployement, whatever) is like that. Unemployment saved mine and DH's asses when DH lost his job in '08. He was on it for almost a year while actively trying to get a job. And you know what, we fcuking paid for that. We owed so much money in taxes because of it. Even when a portion was non-taxable (I forget what the deal was with unemployment and taxes were back then) But did we complain? Hell no. We were GRATEFUL that unemployment existed.
And just because you know 1 person, or even 2 people, doesn't mean it's rampant. THAT is bull shit.
Sorry but there are many that cheat the system. I was laid off in 2009 so I feel for you. I too collected for 7 months until I got a job. I get it, trust me I do. My point is yes, I know one or two people but it is known that a lot do cheat the system.
But not nearly as many as those who don't cheat the system.
Yeah... I know I said I wouldn't weigh in, but it always amazes me how people think that so many people cheat "the system" - "the system" isn't really so great that people are willing to put up with the ridiculous requirements to stay on it - the appointments, the paperwork, the work requirements... for what? A single mom and kid in NYC get $283/mo for rent - what does that get you in NYC? Basically nothing.
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:34 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by MandJZ
I stand by my earlier statement.
NO MORE PUBLIC SCHOOL. Literally EVERYONE who benefits from public school doesn't pay taxes. EVERYONE.
We obviously need to lower the working age so that these bottom feeders will stop abusing the system!!!!!!!!
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:34 PM |
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by sameinitials
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by headoverheels
Hmmmm. I wonder who would agree that illegal immigrants and people claiming asylum to get into the US would fall into the category of "bottom feeders."
I certainly wouldn't BUT then who would that term apply to?
Makes you think whether some posters would be trying to make their argument from a different country Damn bottom feeders! Always looking for a handout
I am first generation American. Daughter of Italian and Cuban immigrants. I would never insult people who come here to seek a better life. Bottom feeders are people who keep having kids to claim more welfare. I work with a girl who is 27 years old and has FOUR kids and gets a portion of section 8. She brags that she has a bigger apartment than some because she gets federal aid. She buys 10 dollar lunches everyday and gets eyelash extensions that cost a fortune. Really? You want to support people like that? That's not right, I am sorry! Bottom feeders who don't want to work that have been unemployed forever and keep on extending unemployment. I am talking about people that cheat the system. I've seen women with luxury cars and giant diamonds go in and use an EBT card. Really? That's who I am talking about. That's ********!
Of course that's bull shit. But just because you know one person who is like that doesn't mean that everyone in her position (on welfare, unemployement, whatever) is like that. Unemployment saved mine and DH's asses when DH lost his job in '08. He was on it for almost a year while actively trying to get a job. And you know what, we fcuking paid for that. We owed so much money in taxes because of it. Even when a portion was non-taxable (I forget what the deal was with unemployment and taxes were back then) But did we complain? Hell no. We were GRATEFUL that unemployment existed.
And just because you know 1 person, or even 2 people, doesn't mean it's rampant. THAT is bull shit.
Sorry but there are many that cheat the system. I was laid off in 2009 so I feel for you. I too collected for 7 months until I got a job. I get it, trust me I do. My point is yes, I know one or two people but it is known that a lot do cheat the system.
But not nearly as many as those who don't cheat the system.
Yeah... I know I said I wouldn't weigh in, but it always amazes me how people think that so many people cheat "the system" - "the system" isn't really so great that people are willing to put up with the ridiculous requirements to stay on it - the appointments, the paperwork, the work requirements... for what? A single mom and kid in NYC get $283/mo for rent - what does that get you in NYC? Basically nothing.
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:38 PM |
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HeathKernandez
Our Ron is an awesome Ron
Member since 4/07 9091 total posts
Name:
baby fish mouth
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by sameinitials
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by headoverheels
Hmmmm. I wonder who would agree that illegal immigrants and people claiming asylum to get into the US would fall into the category of "bottom feeders."
I certainly wouldn't BUT then who would that term apply to?
Makes you think whether some posters would be trying to make their argument from a different country Damn bottom feeders! Always looking for a handout
I am first generation American. Daughter of Italian and Cuban immigrants. I would never insult people who come here to seek a better life. Bottom feeders are people who keep having kids to claim more welfare. I work with a girl who is 27 years old and has FOUR kids and gets a portion of section 8. She brags that she has a bigger apartment than some because she gets federal aid. She buys 10 dollar lunches everyday and gets eyelash extensions that cost a fortune. Really? You want to support people like that? That's not right, I am sorry! Bottom feeders who don't want to work that have been unemployed forever and keep on extending unemployment. I am talking about people that cheat the system. I've seen women with luxury cars and giant diamonds go in and use an EBT card. Really? That's who I am talking about. That's ********!
Of course that's bull shit. But just because you know one person who is like that doesn't mean that everyone in her position (on welfare, unemployement, whatever) is like that. Unemployment saved mine and DH's asses when DH lost his job in '08. He was on it for almost a year while actively trying to get a job. And you know what, we fcuking paid for that. We owed so much money in taxes because of it. Even when a portion was non-taxable (I forget what the deal was with unemployment and taxes were back then) But did we complain? Hell no. We were GRATEFUL that unemployment existed.
And just because you know 1 person, or even 2 people, doesn't mean it's rampant. THAT is bull shit.
Sorry but there are many that cheat the system. I was laid off in 2009 so I feel for you. I too collected for 7 months until I got a job. I get it, trust me I do. My point is yes, I know one or two people but it is known that a lot do cheat the system.
But not nearly as many as those who don't cheat the system.
Yeah... I know I said I wouldn't weigh in, but it always amazes me how people think that so many people cheat "the system" - "the system" isn't really so great that people are willing to put up with the ridiculous requirements to stay on it - the appointments, the paperwork, the work requirements... for what? A single mom and kid in NYC get $283/mo for rent - what does that get you in NYC? Basically nothing.
A-GREED... and it seems as though the ones who have the biggest "opinion" on it (without any concrete understanding OR information on it WHATS-SO-EVER) have NEVER worked with people "in the system..." I know plenty of people who work hard on gov't assistance... while yes- I'm sure many abuse it... but it's not as much as people like mrsmick think it is.
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:38 PM |
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DiamondGirl
You are my I love you
Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
Name:
DiamondMama
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SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Mrs Mick, your close minded , generalized, stereotypic beliefs are what is wrong with this country. Fools like you who spew half truths and refer to people as bottom feeders is the heart of our problem. I can only be glad that as per the last election idiocy is in the minority , god bless America! Cuba is still intact, perhaps your better suited to live there.
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:38 PM |
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by HeathKernandez
Posted by sameinitials
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by MrsMick
Posted by headoverheels
Hmmmm. I wonder who would agree that illegal immigrants and people claiming asylum to get into the US would fall into the category of "bottom feeders."
I certainly wouldn't BUT then who would that term apply to?
Makes you think whether some posters would be trying to make their argument from a different country Damn bottom feeders! Always looking for a handout
I am first generation American. Daughter of Italian and Cuban immigrants. I would never insult people who come here to seek a better life. Bottom feeders are people who keep having kids to claim more welfare. I work with a girl who is 27 years old and has FOUR kids and gets a portion of section 8. She brags that she has a bigger apartment than some because she gets federal aid. She buys 10 dollar lunches everyday and gets eyelash extensions that cost a fortune. Really? You want to support people like that? That's not right, I am sorry! Bottom feeders who don't want to work that have been unemployed forever and keep on extending unemployment. I am talking about people that cheat the system. I've seen women with luxury cars and giant diamonds go in and use an EBT card. Really? That's who I am talking about. That's ********!
Of course that's bull shit. But just because you know one person who is like that doesn't mean that everyone in her position (on welfare, unemployement, whatever) is like that. Unemployment saved mine and DH's asses when DH lost his job in '08. He was on it for almost a year while actively trying to get a job. And you know what, we fcuking paid for that. We owed so much money in taxes because of it. Even when a portion was non-taxable (I forget what the deal was with unemployment and taxes were back then) But did we complain? Hell no. We were GRATEFUL that unemployment existed.
And just because you know 1 person, or even 2 people, doesn't mean it's rampant. THAT is bull shit.
Sorry but there are many that cheat the system. I was laid off in 2009 so I feel for you. I too collected for 7 months until I got a job. I get it, trust me I do. My point is yes, I know one or two people but it is known that a lot do cheat the system.
But not nearly as many as those who don't cheat the system.
Yeah... I know I said I wouldn't weigh in, but it always amazes me how people think that so many people cheat "the system" - "the system" isn't really so great that people are willing to put up with the ridiculous requirements to stay on it - the appointments, the paperwork, the work requirements... for what? A single mom and kid in NYC get $283/mo for rent - what does that get you in NYC? Basically nothing.
A-GREED... and it seems as though the ones who have the biggest "opinion" on it (without any concrete understanding OR information on it WHATS-SO-EVER) have NEVER worked with people "in the system..." I know plenty of people who work hard on gov't assistance... while yes- I'm sure many abuse it... but it's not as much as people like mrsmick think it is.
Stop making too much sense!!
( )
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:39 PM |
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sameinitials
insert creative comment here
Member since 2/12 1998 total posts
Name:
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by HeathKernandez
Posted by sameinitials
Yeah... I know I said I wouldn't weigh in, but it always amazes me how people think that so many people cheat "the system" - "the system" isn't really so great that people are willing to put up with the ridiculous requirements to stay on it - the appointments, the paperwork, the work requirements... for what? A single mom and kid in NYC get $283/mo for rent - what does that get you in NYC? Basically nothing.
A-GREED... and it seems as though the ones who have the biggest "opinion" on it (without any concrete understanding OR information on it WHATS-SO-EVER) have NEVER worked with people "in the system..." I know plenty of people who work hard on gov't assistance... while yes- I'm sure many abuse it... but it's not as much as people like mrsmick think it is.
Yeah... I am a lawyer at a nonprofit so nearly all of my clients are on some form of government assistance, and for every one person she could name that "abuses" the system (and honestly, who knows what the real story is - people can say whatever they want to make their situation seem better to others) I can name 15 off the cuff that aren't and have had real crap happen that made them go on public assistance - victim of domestic violence escaping her abuser, someone who worked 2 jobs and got laid off one and needs PA to make ends meet, etc etc etc
Message edited 1/21/2013 8:43:02 PM.
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:42 PM |
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HeathKernandez
Our Ron is an awesome Ron
Member since 4/07 9091 total posts
Name:
baby fish mouth
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
Stop making too much sense!!
( )
don't worry-- I'll find a way to dumb myself down or make a fool of myself.
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:43 PM |
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SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
I don't want to add too much to this conversation because it really is exhausting, but to the point of people with their EBTs and them dripping in diamonds and rollling up in a Mercedes ---
1.) How often have you really seen that? [and whenever I DO hear that viewpoint, it's ALWAYS some woman with tons of salon-worthy highlights, with a Birkin bag, dripping in diamonds, leaving the parking lot with a new Mercedes and a pricey pooch in the front seat) -- FTR, I've never seen that in my life -- I've seen a lot of older folk, moms, and middle-aged men with an EBT card. And I've only seen the EBT card come out if I literally was done putting my items up and happened to be looking that way. It's almost as if some people stare down the person at the check out point to see how they pay.
-and-
2.) Haven't we discussed on these boards that maybe that person was financially sound until they fell on bad times? Are they supposed to exchange or turn in their previous lifestyle items upon receiving an EBT card?
Message edited 1/21/2013 8:48:14 PM.
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:45 PM |
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HeathKernandez
Our Ron is an awesome Ron
Member since 4/07 9091 total posts
Name:
baby fish mouth
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
I don't want to add too much to this conversation because it really is exhausting, but to the point of people with their EBTs and them dripping in diamonds and rollling up in a Mercedes ---
1.) How often have you really seen that? [and whenever I DO hear that viewpoint, it's ALWAYS some woman with tons of salon-worthy highlights, with a Birkin bag, dripping in diamonds, leaving the parking lot with a new Mercedes and a pricey pooch in the front seat) -- FTR, I've never seen that in my life -- I've seen a lot of older folk, moms, and middle-aged men with an EBT card. And I've only seen the EBT card come out if I literally was done putting my items up and happened to be looking that way. It's almost as if some people stare down the person at the check out point to see how they pay.
-and-
2.) Haven't we discussed on these boards that maybe that person was financially sound until they fell on bad times? Are they supposed to exchange or turn in their previous lifestyle items upon receiving an EBT card?
I have NEVER seen it. and I live in the dirty city.
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:51 PM |
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Blazesyth
*yawn*
Member since 5/05 8129 total posts
Name:
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by HeathKernandez
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
I don't want to add too much to this conversation because it really is exhausting, but to the point of people with their EBTs and them dripping in diamonds and rollling up in a Mercedes ---
1.) How often have you really seen that? [and whenever I DO hear that viewpoint, it's ALWAYS some woman with tons of salon-worthy highlights, with a Birkin bag, dripping in diamonds, leaving the parking lot with a new Mercedes and a pricey pooch in the front seat) -- FTR, I've never seen that in my life -- I've seen a lot of older folk, moms, and middle-aged men with an EBT card. And I've only seen the EBT card come out if I literally was done putting my items up and happened to be looking that way. It's almost as if some people stare down the person at the check out point to see how they pay.
-and-
2.) Haven't we discussed on these boards that maybe that person was financially sound until they fell on bad times? Are they supposed to exchange or turn in their previous lifestyle items upon receiving an EBT card?
I have NEVER seen it. and I live in the dirty city.
Maybe it's only visible when sitting on top of a tall horse?
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:53 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
Posted by EatingMyVeggies
2.) Haven't we discussed on these boards that maybe that person was financially sound until they fell on bad times? Are they supposed to exchange or turn in their previous lifestyle items upon receiving an EBT card?
I've seen this come up time and time again. Why should they have x,y, z if they need help?
BUt these are the same people who will say that these people should better themselves or work 3, 4, 5 jobs. Yeah, that's great but what is a single mother to do? Leave her kids at home alone? And then she loses them to foster care, where they become a bigger drain on the system. And these same people don't seem to grasp that these "bottom feeders" are doing the jobs that they think they're "too good" for: gas jockeys, retail workers, janitorial, manual labor, warehouses.. the list of minimum wage to low wage jobs that are done is too great to list. But, if these jobs didn't exist, then who would stock store shelves, check you out, pump your gas, mow your lawn, clean the facilities you use etc.
Part of being a successful nation is having people working at ALL kinds of jobs. We NEED those people doing those "menial" jobs (although I bet most of those who think they're above those jobs probably couldn't do them) and if we want low prices, that will translate to low wages for them. And why shouldn't those people be able to have decent access to healthcare, food or shelter?
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:53 PM |
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SOCIAL SECURITY TAXES??
I was having the discussion today about elderly people who were lucky enough to retire with assets who conveniently change the names on their properties and other assets in order to collect public subsidy to go into homes, etc...how is that ok? Because they weren't "bottom feeders" their entire lives, it's ok when they reach a certain age?! It appears to go both ways and any extremes are not fair no matter how you slice it..EXTREMES...
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| Posted 1/21/13 8:58 PM |
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