spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

BUT.... please please please please do not say you "saved" your animal if you $BOUGHT$ from a pet shop.
i know pet shops are not the best places for a pup to be, but if you bought from a shop you definatly did not 'save' it.

i say this not to start drama, but b/c there are people on this site and in the world who actualy DID save their animals and i find it to be a big insult to them.

if you adopted your animal from a shelter, then you most certainly did save your animal. but if you bought from a sop or byb or miller you did not.

there are so many ppl who have actually saved animals on here i just find it insulting them. it lessens the value of the word for me. the people who actually did rescue/save their dog get huge kudos from me and should be praised.

one of my dogs came from a miller and two i adopted through private adoptions and i will never say i "saved" a dog. the only dog i ever saved was Toby whom i got from a shelter.

this isnt directed at any one in particular, i dont even know who said they "saved" a dog from a pet shop. and it wasnt only int the buy or adopt thread. ive just seen it tons of times and i just had to ask people dont use that term when they bought.

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

ITA Jess- but people will always use the argument- "What happens to the puppies who aren't sold?"

It sucks that there will always be people who buy from shops and BYB- but it's largely due to ignorance. I bought my one cat from a BYB. The "breeder" was not necessarily in it for the $$, and obviously loved her "stock" very much. But she specialized in "doll-faced" persians, which are no longer considered a "breed standard", therefore she wasn't trying to upkeep or improve the breed- just making cute pet-quality kittens.

I love Deisel to death, but he is FAR from the standard persian- long nose, HUGE ears, and his markings are definitely not those of a properly bred Himilayan. Neither of his parents had ever been shown either.

Now that I'm educated about the dangers of BYB, I will never buy from one again. Even though Deisel is healthy and loveable, I could have gotten the same thing from an "pet-quality" birth from a reputable breeder.

ETA: My other Himmy was purchased through a reputable CFA registered breeder and the experience was much different with the same result- an adorable doll-faced pet quality persian, but with the health guarantees and piece of mind that I purchased wisely.

Our mutt was a shelter pup

Message edited 5/15/2007 10:17:01 AM.

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

If you didn't think it would start drama, why did you post this?

I still firmly believed I "saved" my Casey from being in a cramped crate and ending up God knows where. I will admit, I did not know it was "wrong" to buy from pet shops at the time, and yes, I almost did it again - big, big mistake and I admit that - but I don't think you should generalize and think your way of thinking should be the way everyone thinks, know what I mean?

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

Being more educated on the BYB's and puppy mills now, I know the difference and would never purchase from a pet store.
What does it matter what another owner says they did when they got their pup?
It seems like a ridiculous arguement.

It doesn't mean you love your pup more or less because you fall under the technical definition of "saving" a pet.

Take it upon yourself to use the "correct" terminology for how your got your pup. Don't lecture to others on what to say. I find that insulting.

Message edited 5/15/2007 10:44:52 AM.

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

I am so anti-puppy mills that thinking about it all long enough brings me to tears BUT technically the people who buy from pet stores did "save" that one animal but in the grand scheme of things it is not the right thing to do.

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

I think I know where Jes is coming from. If you "save" one pet from a shop, it is from a BYB, broker or a Miller, and will be replaced with 3 more. This is the current state of supply & demand in this particular industry.

I know it is hard to think of what happens to that one puppy you see in the crate if it is not bought, but what actually happens is that for each dog bought 3 more will suffer. So maybe you "saved" your dog, but the reality is it is as the expense of 3 others.

Furthermore, most people who adopt from shelters or rescue orgs have to go through a pretty rough acceptance procedure, and also have to face rejection and stiff competition all for the love of animals and get just what is available to them (for the most part), rather than walking into a store and buying the cutest puppy... Many times we adopt knowing that we will have limited time with a dog, be it because of their age, or their general health (or lack of it from neglect). We also know that we have to work that much harder to gain the dog's trust, which has already been broken at least once by what they thought was their family forever. So forgive me if I agree with Jes that it is not the same thing.

Although I am not flaming here, for those of us who are very deep into rescue & education, I am sorry but buying a dog from a store and saying you saved it is not the same thing. Taking a dog off of death row at a shelter, or dedicating the time & money to a rescue org that exists SOLELY for the love of saving animals and NOT for the profit off of them is truly saving......

If you truly want to "save" the dogs in a Pet Shop, write to your local representatives to make sure they know that you want them to work harder in government to enforce the Puppy Mill and cruelty laws that are in place. The laws are there, but since not enough people fight for them, they are not strongly enforced. Most times a PM is ONLY closed b/c a special interest group of private citizens spends their time & money to investigate & bring charges against them to get them closed. That is the reality of why the PM & pet shops still exist.

Sorry if I offend anyone, but the truth is that Jes has a very valid point. Just because the perception is there that a dog was rescued is not always the reality.

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

Message edited 5/15/2007 10:54:05 AM.

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

Posted by CaseyGirl

Posted by MsMBV

Sorry if I offend anyone, but the truth is that Jes has a very valid point. Just because the perception is there that a dog was rescued is not always the reality.

It's not anyone else's views that I or any of the other girls take offense to, it is being told not to say "saved" etc. Everyone has their own rights and feelings. I am a HUGE animal lover, member of PETA, Bide-A-Wee, and a few others which I joined after learning more about this. I will take your advice and write to whoever I can to try and stop the PMs. I just don't like being told what to say or not to say, KWIM?

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

i'm sorry, i wasn't trying to make this a "thou shalt not buy from pet shops" type of post.

i was just saying, when someone who bought their dog says they "saved" it, i think it cheapens the meaning.

there are people who spend their lives dong rescue, foster, etc and i think its insulting to those people who really do save their animals when someone who bought their dog said they saved it.

i DO understand where those people are coming from though, i do. its just when you say you saved a dog usually it means off death row at a shelter. or even from a no kill shelter.

i see some posters said they dont like to be told what to do/say. i apologize, it wasnt meant like i was telling you what to say, i was trying to ASK that maybe some people can refrain from using that word.


eta: like i said, i adopted two fo my dogs and i dont say i saved them.... so its not like i am saying i am right and you are wrong, i am just saying i think we should respect the fact that there is a difference between SAVING a dog and getting ti out of a not so good situation

Message edited 5/15/2007 11:19:00 AM.

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

WHERE you get your animal makes no one more or less morally superior...

it's the love, care, and attention you GIVE to it, or any other creation, that "saves" them from leading a bad life.

a dog "saved" from a shelter can lead a worse life with those that "saved" him/her.

I think the "where" can be irrelevant, so I don't see the point.

Message edited 5/15/2007 11:15:24 AM.

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

I can understand both sides... Personally, I have known about puppy mills since I was in 7th grade and was very much into animal rights, and knowing that, would never ever buy from a pet store. There are people who don't know any better and go into the pet stores and buy their animals.
But maybe instead of arguing over who really "saved" their animals, we can all be knowledgeable now about the cruelty of pet stores and puppy mills. We can all try to further the education, and spread the word about puppy mills. Maybe if we work together instead of arguing over semantics, we can make a difference. Being on the pet board, we are all animal lovers. So lets stop the silliness and fight the real enemy.

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

Posted by SweetTooth

I can understand both sides... Personally, I have known about puppy mills since I was in 7th grade and was very much into animal rights, and knowing that, would never ever buy from a pet store. There are people who don't know any better and go into the pet stores and buy their animals.
But maybe instead of arguing over who really "saved" their animals, we can all be knowledgeable now about the cruelty of pet stores and puppy mills. We can all try to further the education, and spread the word about puppy mills. Maybe if we work together instead of arguing over semantics, we can make a difference. Being on the pet board, we are all animal lovers. So lets stop the silliness and fight the real enemy.

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

Posted by bridget-n-jimmy

Posted by MsMBV

I think I know where Jes is coming from. If you "save" one pet from a shop, it is from a BYB, broker or a Miller, and will be replaced with 3 more. This is the current state of supply & demand in this particular industry.

I know it is hard to think of what happens to that one puppy you see in the crate if it is not bought, but what actually happens is that for each dog bought 3 more will suffer. So maybe you "saved" your dog, but the reality is it is as the expense of 3 others.

Furthermore, most people who adopt from shelters or rescue orgs have to go through a pretty rough acceptance procedure, and also have to face rejection and stiff competition all for the love of animals and get just what is available to them (for the most part), rather than walking into a store and buying the cutest puppy... Many times we adopt knowing that we will have limited time with a dog, be it because of their age, or their general health (or lack of it from neglect). We also know that we have to work that much harder to gain the dog's trust, which has already been broken at least once by what they thought was their family forever. So forgive me if I agree with Jes that it is not the same thing.

Although I am not flaming here, for those of us who are very deep into rescue & education, I am sorry but buying a dog from a store and saying you saved it is not the same thing. Taking a dog off of death row at a shelter, or dedicating the time & money to a rescue org that exists SOLELY for the love of saving animals and NOT for the profit off of them is truly saving......

If you truly want to "save" the dogs in a Pet Shop, write to your local representatives to make sure they know that you want them to work harder in government to enforce the Puppy Mill and cruelty laws that are in place. The laws are there, but since not enough people fight for them, they are not strongly enforced. Most times a PM is ONLY closed b/c a special interest group of private citizens spends their time & money to investigate & bring charges against them to get them closed. That is the reality of why the PM & pet shops still exist.

Sorry if I offend anyone, but the truth is that Jes has a very valid point. Just because the perception is there that a dog was rescued is not always the reality.

And I do agree with you whole heartedly, but being on this site for so long I am sure most of the posters who post on Pets know that purchasing a dog from a Pet Shop is wrong. But why does the same things need to be posted time and time again. We should focus this energy on informing other people who are not informed about BYB and Puppy Mills.
QUOTE]

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

Posted by Gertyrae

Posted by SweetTooth

I can understand both sides... Personally, I have known about puppy mills since I was in 7th grade and was very much into animal rights, and knowing that, would never ever buy from a pet store. There are people who don't know any better and go into the pet stores and buy their animals.
But maybe instead of arguing over who really "saved" their animals, we can all be knowledgeable now about the cruelty of pet stores and puppy mills. We can all try to further the education, and spread the word about puppy mills. Maybe if we work together instead of arguing over semantics, we can make a difference. Being on the pet board, we are all animal lovers. So lets stop the silliness and fight the real enemy.

That was extremely well said!

Message edited 5/15/2007 2:28:00 PM.

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

Posted by SweetTooth
But maybe instead of arguing over who really "saved" their animals, we can all be knowledgeable now about the cruelty of pet stores and puppy mills. We can all try to further the education, and spread the word about puppy mills. Maybe if we work together instead of arguing over semantics, we can make a difference. Being on the pet board, we are all animal lovers. So lets stop the silliness and fight the real enemy.

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

I strongly disagree with the OP (sorry Jess, I know you weren't trying to stir up drama). Saving an animal, IMO, is totally subjective.

We bought Cooper from a pet store, not fully knowing or understanding the cruelty behind pet stores and puppy mills (excuse our ignorance at the time, we just fell in love). We bought him under the false pretense that he was HEALTHY and it wasn't until the following night when we rushed him to a 24 hr. hospital that we realized we were dooped. We could've returned him to the shop and said to hell with him and the shop, and gotten our money back... but we didn't. We SAVED him from a very uncertain and CRUEL death.

Truthfully, I don't care about the other animals in those pet stores, I only care about MINE and what we did for him and what we're still doing for him, so yes, we SAVED him and I don't think that lessens the meaning of the word or lessens what people who saved dogs from kills shelters did... IMO, it puts me in the greatest company and among some of the most caring and selfless indivuduals out there.

To save is to save... it shouldn't matter from who, what, where or under what circumstances you did it, bottom line, you did it, you saved a life....

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama

to each their own..........



i meant more along the lines of 'bill' goes to a pet shop, falls in love, buys one. (pup is healthy.) bill later finds out about puppymills and is disgusted and then changes his tune by saying he 'saved' him. kwim?




kim... i understand where you are coming from completely.

Message edited 5/15/2007 3:59:05 PM.

Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama