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CookiePuss
Cake from Outer Space!
Member since 5/05 14021 total posts
Name:
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Posted by MsMBV
I think I know where Jes is coming from. If you "save" one pet from a shop, it is from a BYB, broker or a Miller, and will be replaced with 3 more. This is the current state of supply & demand in this particular industry.
I know it is hard to think of what happens to that one puppy you see in the crate if it is not bought, but what actually happens is that for each dog bought 3 more will suffer. So maybe you "saved" your dog, but the reality is it is as the expense of 3 others.
Furthermore, most people who adopt from shelters or rescue orgs have to go through a pretty rough acceptance procedure, and also have to face rejection and stiff competition all for the love of animals and get just what is available to them (for the most part), rather than walking into a store and buying the cutest puppy... Many times we adopt knowing that we will have limited time with a dog, be it because of their age, or their general health (or lack of it from neglect). We also know that we have to work that much harder to gain the dog's trust, which has already been broken at least once by what they thought was their family forever. So forgive me if I agree with Jes that it is not the same thing.
Although I am not flaming here, for those of us who are very deep into rescue & education, I am sorry but buying a dog from a store and saying you saved it is not the same thing. Taking a dog off of death row at a shelter, or dedicating the time & money to a rescue org that exists SOLELY for the love of saving animals and NOT for the profit off of them is truly saving......
If you truly want to "save" the dogs in a Pet Shop, write to your local representatives to make sure they know that you want them to work harder in government to enforce the Puppy Mill and cruelty laws that are in place. The laws are there, but since not enough people fight for them, they are not strongly enforced. Most times a PM is ONLY closed b/c a special interest group of private citizens spends their time & money to investigate & bring charges against them to get them closed. That is the reality of why the PM & pet shops still exist.
Sorry if I offend anyone, but the truth is that Jes has a very valid point. Just because the perception is there that a dog was rescued is not always the reality.
For those that might be interested in more information on this topic...please visit
Puppymill Rescue
Some of the pages are graphic in description so beware.
I post this because this is a group that is close to my heart.
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Posted 5/15/07 5:36 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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MrsFlatbread
Skinny jeans are in my future
Member since 6/06 10258 total posts
Name:
Baby Momma
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
goodness... enough of this topic already. people have different views about different things, we've been down this road before. Do what you feel is the best way to live your life and others will do what they feel whether you find it acceptable or not. i am not ignorant about the topic, it is just that I am annoyed with people trying to force their views on others and not accepting the fact that we are all entitled to our own opinions and actions. Just because you adopted your pet and others may have bought theirs, that doesn't make either one more rightous than the other. You should not get offended when someone else feels they "saved" their pet. It's not meant to offend you.
Message edited 5/15/2007 7:14:58 PM.
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| Posted 5/15/07 6:56 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Posted by CaseyGirl
If you didn't think it would start drama, why did you post this?
I still firmly believed I "saved" my Casey from being in a cramped crate and ending up God knows where. I will admit, I did not know it was "wrong" to buy from pet shops at the time, and yes, I almost did it again - big, big mistake and I admit that - but I don't think you should generalize and think your way of thinking should be the way everyone thinks, know what I mean?
ITA!! It was the same situation for us and I also still firmly believe I saved Charlotte and I always will feel that way- no one is going to take that from me. She is, honest to God, the best thing Vinny and I ever did besides get married.
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| Posted 5/16/07 5:47 PM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
Name:
Kristin
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
1. If you have to start a post with "Not trying to start drama" it means you thought/knew it would start drama.
2. We all know the feelings of some about puppymills (it is very sad and it disgusts me but some people don't know including yourself when you got tink) This posed ALL the time here.
3. Why not go stand in front of the local pet shop and protest. Tell people as they go in to buy pups where they are coming from?
4. Why not work out something to help put the millers out of business. Clearly telling people on the internet isn't working. Something else needs to be done.
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| Posted 5/16/07 8:59 PM |
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Porrruss
Nya nya nya
Member since 5/05 11618 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Posted by june262004
3. Why not go stand in front of the local pet shop and protest. Tell people as they go in to buy pups where they are coming from?
I have actually done this.....
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| Posted 5/16/07 9:01 PM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
Name:
Kristin
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by june262004
3. Why not go stand in front of the local pet shop and protest. Tell people as they go in to buy pups where they are coming from?
I have actually done this.....
Thats awesome for you. You should spend all your time off doing that since this is something so important to you. You could probably reach a lot more people that way then posting here 
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| Posted 5/16/07 9:04 PM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Posted by june262004
1. If you have to start a post with "Not trying to start drama" it means you thought/knew it would start drama.
2. We all know the feelings of some about puppymills (it is very sad and it disgusts me but some people don't know including yourself when you got tink) This posed ALL the time here.
3. Why not go stand in front of the local pet shop and protest. Tell people as they go in to buy pups where they are coming from?
4. Why not work out something to help put the millers out of business. Clearly telling people on the internet isn't working. Something else needs to be done.
Kristin, it is a long hard road to get the support needed to enforce the PM Laws, and it takes a lot of time & money. It is not as easy as...oh go do something. Most of us do; a lot, but the reality is the more people we tell, and the less that shop in pet stores, the easier it is to get the market demand to change. That is also one of the best ways to make a difference.
I also protest pet stores, and write to our government reps, and help the charity orgs with their efforts. Sometimes it takes more time than my paying job.
I understand what you are saying, but for people like myself, Jes, Porruss, Gerty, reggie, Shanti and many others....we do plenty and do use up most of our free time for this cause. The point is every effort is worthy, including making posts on the internet.
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| Posted 5/17/07 9:34 AM |
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Porrruss
Nya nya nya
Member since 5/05 11618 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Posted by june262004
Thats awesome for you. You should spend all your time off doing that since this is something so important to you. You could probably reach a lot more people that way then posting here
I truly hope you weren't being sarcastic. I've never attacked you for your beliefs or opinions- nor have I ever gotten preachy on this board. I should think that an internet forum would be a perfect avenue to help people gain insight on this topic.
I understand the mistakes people have made because of their ignorance on this the topic of petstore puppies and puppymills/BYB. I DON'T understand why after someone is educated about where pet store puppies come from, they would repeat offend. But that is their choice and I'll just quietly shake my head.
Maybe I should clarify about what I do- if someone is walking out of a petstore with a puppy, I would NEVER get in their face. However, if someone is at the local shop and talking about buying a puppy, I'll discretely try to educate them about puppy mill puppies and the proper avenues one can take to getting a GUARANTEED healthy pup. I've provided pamphlets and information about local rescue organizations. If they are not receptive, I move on. But if I can get just ONE person to decide to rescue or buy from a LICENSED breeder, then I've saved 3 future lives. Having worked with the public for 14 years, I've learned you catch more flies with honey and would never make someone feel uncomfortable.
If I could devote ALL my free time to this, I would- but balancing graduate school, work, and a new baby on the way, time just doesn't permit. Just as some devote their time to Autism Speaks, or LiveStrong, I choose to devote my time to helping animals.
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| Posted 5/17/07 11:31 AM |
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Shanti
True love
Member since 6/05 12653 total posts
Name:
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
All I can say is that I learned SO much for the women on this board. I did not grow up with pets and knew nothing about puppy mills, etc. I am so glad that this site was one of my resources.
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| Posted 5/17/07 12:21 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
this wasnt meant to be a puppymill vs adopting thread. there are plenty of those.
i was simply saying if you go into a pet sjop and buy a dog it isnt "saving" its life. but like i said whatever, to each their own. if you do so and want to say you saved him, so be it, i just will think differently.
i never got hostile i dont feel on this thread, and im surprised so many others have.
kristin, im quite surprised at you, why would you be so nasty to poruss???
in regaurds to your other comments. how do you know i havent done these things??? and i'm sorry, but i do feel the interenet is the BEST place to start educating people on puppymills. (although that wasnt the intent of this thread)
look how many people have learned about mills via interenet. most people on the Pet board did!
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| Posted 5/17/07 12:52 PM |
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KGools
Happy
Member since 9/06 9532 total posts
Name:
Kim
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Posted by ThusSpokeLaLolita
i was simply saying if you go into a pet sjop and buy a dog it isnt "saving" its life. but like i said whatever, to each their own. if you do so and want to say you saved him, so be it, i just will think differently.
Jess, you mean that it's not "saving" an animal if you go into a pet store KNOWING how they operate and having a full understanding of puppy mills, correct?
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| Posted 5/17/07 12:56 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Posted by CoopersMom01
Posted by ThusSpokeLaLolita
i was simply saying if you go into a pet sjop and buy a dog it isnt "saving" its life. but like i said whatever, to each their own. if you do so and want to say you saved him, so be it, i just will think differently.
Jess, you mean that it's not "saving" an animal if you go into a pet store KNOWING how they operate and having a full understanding of puppy mills, correct?
of course.
but i mean, ieven if you dont know about it, thats one thing, and understandable how someone could make a pet shop purchase not knowing better. but to me that doesnt mean that they 'saved' it, unless it was on its death bed or something.
i think people thin kim saying "dont buy from shops" which i do believe, but not what im saying here. thats a dif topic. i dont blame anyone who buys a dog from a pet shop if they dont know about mills and all.
its just about the term "save"
Message edited 5/17/2007 1:10:56 PM.
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| Posted 5/17/07 1:03 PM |
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june262004
But I love the Snow!
Member since 5/05 15379 total posts
Name:
Kristin
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
But it's the same thing over and over again. The people who bought their dogs in pet stores did it. They can't change that now....
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| Posted 5/18/07 10:28 PM |
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Jesaroo
is not the girl you knew
Member since 5/05 14266 total posts
Name:
Jes
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Posted by june262004
But it's the same thing over and over again. The people who bought their dogs in pet stores did it. They can't change that now....
you're absolutely right. and like i said, if you bought your pup from a shop unknowingly thats not your fault. you didnt know any better. who can blame you...
BUT thats NOT what my intent for this thread was.
it was the about how people use the word "saved" too loosely
for ex. i think you saved Rudy. i dont think my neighbor who bought a little chi pup from the pet shop in flushing 'saved' a pup when she bought her from the pet shop "puppy paradise"
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| Posted 5/18/07 10:56 PM |
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HarleyGirlFLA
Come on in
Member since 5/05 9674 total posts
Name:
Mel
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
I do think I "saved" my puppy. I got him from an ex-coworker and I really think this guy abused the pup. The guy did not even want the dog. His wife wanted the dog and then 2 months later the wife decided she didnt want to live in FL anymore so she packed up herself and the kids and moved to CO. Leaving the pup behind with him. Him who wanted nothing to do with Simba.
Sim is utterly petrified of dark skinned men. My ex-coworker is Indian. If Sim see's a dark skinned man he will literally cower down and cry.
I really think Sim was somehow abused. I honestly believe I saved my pup from an unhappy home and a life that would not been a good life for him.
Ever since I got my puppy I started doing a lot of research on abused animals and sometimes I cant even read past a first sentence as it breaks my heart. Though I physically can not do anything, I know a donation can help those who can. I proudly support local shelters, PETA, and ASPCA.
If anyone tells me they are looking for a dog I always tell them to look into local shelters and offer them information about PM hoping my educating at least one person has helped put a PM out of business.
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| Posted 5/19/07 6:24 PM |
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Porrruss
Nya nya nya
Member since 5/05 11618 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Poor Simba  I think my pup was abused too- but she's terrified of EVERYTHING, including DH and I when we raise our voices
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| Posted 5/20/07 7:20 AM |
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HarleyGirlFLA
Come on in
Member since 5/05 9674 total posts
Name:
Mel
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
the poor puppy
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| Posted 5/20/07 8:49 AM |
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Diane
Hope is Contagious....catch it
Member since 5/05 30683 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Posted by CaseyGirl
If you didn't think it would start drama, why did you post this?
I still firmly believed I "saved" my Casey from being in a cramped crate and ending up God knows where. I will admit, I did not know it was "wrong" to buy from pet shops at the time, and yes, I almost did it again - big, big mistake and I admit that - but I don't think you should generalize and think your way of thinking should be the way everyone thinks, know what I mean?
I agree.....I will not buy again from the place where we got Tiger because I feel they overcharged me, but I did "save" him from there. I go there all the time and see older dogs and some even given away for free.
So if you didnt want to start drama then why did you post this??
You know there are many people on here who have bought their pets from a pet store.
Yes, I would have loved to have adopted a dog, but animal shelters so NOT have purebred Bull Terriers.
Would I buy from a store...no I will go to a breeder next time.
Enough already with this topic
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| Posted 5/21/07 7:37 AM |
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Porrruss
Nya nya nya
Member since 5/05 11618 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Posted by Diane
Posted by CaseyGirl
If you didn't think it would start drama, why did you post this?
I still firmly believed I "saved" my Casey from being in a cramped crate and ending up God knows where. I will admit, I did not know it was "wrong" to buy from pet shops at the time, and yes, I almost did it again - big, big mistake and I admit that - but I don't think you should generalize and think your way of thinking should be the way everyone thinks, know what I mean?
I agree.....I will not buy again from the place where we got Tiger because I feel they overcharged me, but I did "save" him from there. I go there all the time and see older dogs and some even given away for free.
So if you didnt want to start drama then why did you post this??
You know there are many people on here who have bought their pets from a pet store.
Yes, I would have loved to have adopted a dog, but animal shelters so NOT have purebred Bull Terriers.
Would I buy from a store...no I will go to a breeder next time.
Enough already with this topic
It will NEVER be "enough with this topic" until ALL pet store stock are regulated properly or stop selling puppies altogether. This website is a VALUABLE tool to help EDUCATE those who are misinformed.
It's interesting how defensive people get and want to *stop* the discussion- WHY?. You say you would go to a breeder next time rather than buy from a pet store again. Well, then there is a small victory- 3 less puppies will find their way to a petstore because of it
When you first purchased your dog at the pet store, you were not educated about BYB and PM- which is usually the case for most pet store buyers. Through some sort of research (this website and it's multiple threads related to this issue, perhaps) you BECAME educated about petstores and their relationship with puppy millls. You have realized the different options you have available to you besides choosing to purchase from pet stores.
Look ladies, like it or not- for EVERY puppy purchased in those pet stores, THREE more will be produced to replace it. When people STOP purchasing from pet stores, then this nasty cycle will end. THAT is why there will NEVER be enough of this topic .....
Message edited 5/21/2007 8:23:19 AM.
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| Posted 5/21/07 8:21 AM |
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Diane
Hope is Contagious....catch it
Member since 5/05 30683 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by Diane
Posted by CaseyGirl
If you didn't think it would start drama, why did you post this?
I still firmly believed I "saved" my Casey from being in a cramped crate and ending up God knows where. I will admit, I did not know it was "wrong" to buy from pet shops at the time, and yes, I almost did it again - big, big mistake and I admit that - but I don't think you should generalize and think your way of thinking should be the way everyone thinks, know what I mean?
I agree.....I will not buy again from the place where we got Tiger because I feel they overcharged me, but I did "save" him from there. I go there all the time and see older dogs and some even given away for free.
So if you didnt want to start drama then why did you post this??
You know there are many people on here who have bought their pets from a pet store.
Yes, I would have loved to have adopted a dog, but animal shelters so NOT have purebred Bull Terriers.
Would I buy from a store...no I will go to a breeder next time.
Enough already with this topic
It will NEVER be "enough with this topic" until ALL pet store stock are regulated properly or stop selling puppies altogether. This website is a VALUABLE tool to help EDUCATE those who are misinformed.
It's interesting how defensive people get and want to *stop* the discussion- WHY?. You say you would go to a breeder next time rather than buy from a pet store again. Well, then there is a small victory- 3 less puppies will find their way to a petstore because of it
When you first purchased your dog at the pet store, you were not educated about BYB and PM- which is usually the case for most pet store buyers. Through some sort of research (this website and it's multiple threads related to this issue, perhaps) you BECAME educated about petstores and their relationship with puppy millls. You have realized the different options you have available to you besides choosing to purchase from pet stores.
Look ladies, like it or not- for EVERY puppy purchased in those pet stores, THREE more will be produced to replace it. When people STOP purchasing from pet stores, then this nasty cycle will end. THAT is why there will NEVER be enough of this topic .....
I just wont go to THAT pet store again, becasue I know I got ripped offa fter we found out how much we paid vs what we could have paid.
Im just glad we SAVED Tiger from there because we LOVED him the minute we saw him and had a great tempermant.
I just dont want people to tell me that I did NOT save him...I DID
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| Posted 5/21/07 9:17 AM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Posted by Diane
I just wont go to THAT pet store again, becasue I know I got ripped offa fter we found out how much we paid vs what we could have paid.
Im just glad we SAVED Tiger from there because we LOVED him the minute we saw him and had a great tempermant.
I just dont want people to tell me that I did NOT save him...I DID
I'm lost....so it would have been OK to buy a PM dog if the price would have been better?
That to me is not saving anything, except maybe your wallet. You can see it however you want, but a rescue it is not.....
AND BTW, in a previous post you mentioned what is or not available in shelters. EVERY dog breed is available as a rescue - it just takes a little research and patience.
Sorry but like Porrrrus said, until the Pet Shops are prohibited from selling puppies/kittens, there will never be enough of this topic.
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| Posted 5/21/07 9:25 AM |
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Diane
Hope is Contagious....catch it
Member since 5/05 30683 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Posted by MsMBV
Posted by Diane
I just wont go to THAT pet store again, becasue I know I got ripped offa fter we found out how much we paid vs what we could have paid.
Im just glad we SAVED Tiger from there because we LOVED him the minute we saw him and had a great tempermant.
I just dont want people to tell me that I did NOT save him...I DID
I'm lost....so it would have been OK to buy a PM dog if the price would have been better?
That to me is not saving anything, except maybe your wallet. You can see it however you want, but a rescue it is not.....
AND BTW, in a previous post you mentioned what is or not available in shelters. EVERY dog breed is available as a rescue - it just takes a little research and patience.
Sorry but like Porrrrus said, until the Pet Shops are prohibited from selling puppies/kittens, there will never be enough of this topic.
we looked into shelters for Bull Terriers, which are very uncommon breeds.
We also wanted to have papers for Tiger.
So now im going to be bashed because I didnt adopt a dog from a a shelter...that is pretty harsh.
Message edited 5/21/2007 9:37:10 AM.
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| Posted 5/21/07 9:35 AM |
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MsMBV
:P
Member since 5/05 28602 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Posted by Diane
we looked into shelters for Bull Terriers, which are very uncommon breeds.
We also wanted to have papers for Tiger.
So now im going to be bashed because I didnt adopt a dog from a a shelter...that is pretty harsh.
Not bashing you at all...just posing a question. I have both rescue dogs AND a dog from a breeder. I tried to get my Chinese Crested from a rescue org, but like you I found that a rarer breed with health and temperament issues would be better from a reliable source. I sought out a reputable breeder through people who are active in both the Chinese Crested and rescue communities.
BTW most likely the papers that came with your dog are bogus. I hate to be the one to tell you, but most PMs forge their AKC papers, or have only limited registration as many lines are not completely proven as AKC approved.
There are even 'Fake" kennel clubs created specifically for the purpose of making PM dogs look like they were bred legitimately and within standards. I believe at last count there are 4 well-known fake KCs in the US & Canada. Please know that it is nearly impossible for a PM to truly know the lineage of the dogs, since they use multiple studs to one b!tch every heat cycle. Many times they do not know for sure which stud sired the resulting litter.
It is not that you have a PM dog & should be "punished" for it. But just as I learned the hard way about buying a pet shop dog, I think EVERYONE should know the truth. We all love our dogs - that is not even a question. But I would be hard-pressed to believe that if I did not tell people what I know, that anything will have any chance of changing. So please do not take it personally. It is not an attack against you, or the way you acquired your dog. Please know that the more knowledge is out there the harder it is for the PMs & the pet shops that support them to exist.
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| Posted 5/21/07 9:56 AM |
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Porrruss
Nya nya nya
Member since 5/05 11618 total posts
Name:
Amy
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Bull terrier rescues
Took me 30 seconds to find this....
No need to ever step foot in a pet shop ever again.....
Additionally, I found it off the AKC website- who also lists recognized (and reputable) breeders.
Message edited 5/21/2007 10:12:55 AM.
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| Posted 5/21/07 10:11 AM |
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Diane
Hope is Contagious....catch it
Member since 5/05 30683 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: spinoff to buy or adopt...... not trying to start drama
Posted by Porrruss
Bull terrier rescues
Took me 30 seconds to find this....
No need to ever step foot in a pet shop ever again.....
Additionally, I found it off the AKC website- who also lists recognized (and reputable) breeders.
well a little too late...we saw Tiger in the shop and feel in love with him.
But thanks of the info...didnt know they had a rescue.
Wish i could take them all. they are a FUN breed, but none in NY match us.
Message edited 5/21/2007 10:59:00 AM.
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| Posted 5/21/07 10:55 AM |
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