Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

I believe there is a genetic predisposition...that other added factors feed to it.

IMO you have to take action over your shot schedule. Do what makes you comfortable.

I had a ped walk out on me at 9 mos visit, totally offended.

Drs don't know as much as you do about your own child. My baby wound up with an extra Hep shot...that's when I knew to step up and sort through all info.

Another eye opener was just how little they trusted BFing once baby hit 9 mos. They wanted measured amounts. How much milk is he getting questions....

I will say this. In my moms group...there is a former pharmacist, an EI evaluator, and a parttime urgent care ped. EI's son won't be getting shots till completely necessary at kindergarden age. Pharm delays everything. Ped is on a delay with certain shots.

I also recommend dr sears book. Jenny McCarthy's book. Talking to your dr. Get all sides of the story. good luck!

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

I just received another email today on another study - I will attach it here.

I am an autism professional.

I have seen parents feel the vaccine caused their child's autism, claim religious exemption for child #2, and that child still develop autism.

In Vermont, tons of parents chose not to vaccinate their children. I ran an autism program there full of those children.

I know tons of twins where both were vaccinated - one had autism, one did not.

I know tons of twins where neither received vaccination. Bot had autism. Same with triplets.

Siblings have 90% chance of having autism if one has the diagnosis. Vaccinations are never even considered part of the equation when you go to a genetic counselor.


Parents have told me the following:

They saw something way before the vaccinations were given
They saw changes occur after the vaccinations
They delayed vaccinations because of things they saw
They saw autism manifest after the vaccinations

As for scientific fact, someone mentioned beautifully that the etiology of autism is a checklist, and scores on specific evaluations. Autism is a pervasive developmental disorder with many links being researched. Too often, the vaccine link is researched and evidence is not supporting it. In the meantime, stronger scientific evidence has found genetic markers and chromosomes responsible for this disability. As someone who cannot rely on circumstatntial evidence, I NEED to see data and science supporting everything.

Here is another recent article:

Study Adds to Evidence of Vaccine Safety
Researchers find no risk of thimerosal in vaccines causing brain problems
By CARLA K. JOHNSON Associated Press Writer
The Associated Press
CHICAGO

A new study from Italy adds to a mountain of evidence that a mercury-based preservative once used in many vaccines doesn't hurt children, offering more reassurance to parents.

In the early 1990s, thousands of healthy Italian babies in a study of whooping cough vaccines got two different amounts of the preservative thimerosal (pronounced thih-MEHR'-uh-sawl) from all their routine shots.

Ten years later, 1,403 of those children took a battery of brain function tests. Researchers found small differences in only two of 24 measurements and those "might be attributable to chance," they wrote in the February issue of the journal Pediatrics, which was released Monday.

Only one case of autism was found, and that was in the group that got the lower level of thimerosal.

Autism is a complex disorder featuring repetitive behaviors and poor social interaction and communication skills. Scientists generally believe genetics plays a role in causing the disorder; a theory that thimerosal is to blame has been repeatedly discounted in scientific studies.

"Put together with the evidence of all the other studies, this tells us there is no reason to worry about the effect of thimerosal in vaccines," said the new study's lead author, Dr. Alberto Tozzi of Bambino Gesu Hospital in Rome.

The debate over thimerosal and autism has been much stronger in the United States than in Italy, Tozzi said. But the researchers recognized a chance to examine the issue by going back to the children who had taken part in the 1990s whooping cough research.

Randomization sets the new study apart. The random assignment of children rules out the chance that factors other than thimerosal, such as education or poverty, caused the results.

Thimerosal, used in some vaccines to prevent the growth of bacteria and fungus, hasn't been in U.S. childhood vaccines since 2001, except for certain flu shots. Italy and other European nations began removing it in 1999. U.S. health officials recommended the removal of thimerosal as a precaution and to reduce the overall exposure of children to mercury.

Safety regulations still require multi-dose vials of vaccines to contain some type of preservative to prevent the spread of infection from contaminated vials.

The study, funded by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, drew praise from outside experts.

"It's yet another well done, peer-reviewed research study that has demonstrated there is no risk of any neurodevelopmental outcomes associated with thimerosal in vaccines," said epidemiologist Jennifer Pinto-Martin of the University of Pennsylvania.

"This becomes the fourth study to look for subtle signs of mercury toxicity and show the answer was 'no,'" said Dr. Paul Offit, chief of infectious diseases at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, the author of a book on autism research and the co-inventor of a rotavirus vaccine.

Tozzi said comparing children with no exposure to thimerosal could have improved the study. "However, if thimerosal were a cause of harm, it is likely that this effect would increase with the administered dose," he said.

The children received either 62.5 micrograms or 137.5 micrograms of ethyl mercury from all their shots during their first year of life. Thimerosal breaks down as ethyl mercury in the body. Before the reduction of thimerosal in the United States, the maximum exposure for infants was 187.5 micrograms of ethyl mercury.

The researchers found the children in both groups scored, on average, in the normal range on 11 tests of memory, attention, motor skills and other brain functions.

Those 11 tests included 24 measured outcomes. Small, but statistical differences were found for only two of those areas, and only for girls. The girls with higher exposure scored worse on a finger-tapping test with their dominant hands, and on a vocabulary test in which they were asked to name common objects.

There was no difference in boys on those outcomes or others. Researchers also found no difference in tic disorders. And the one autism case found in the lower-intake group was likely a chance finding, Tozzi said.

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

I believe that vaccinations DOES have a link to autism. But this is my personal decision. I have read articles online about children who were thriving until they received a specific vaccine- then their behavior changed. A great book to read(see my avatar) is Mother Warriors. Talks specifically about this controversial topic.

My son will continue to get his shots, but not if he is has a cold, and he will not be getting more then one shot per visit. Also, I believe that a child should not be given Tylenol before a shot is given. Don't quote me on this, but I think the Tylenol can reduce some natural antioxidant in our body.

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

My son has PDD and I don't think for a minute the shots caused it. My DD has received all required vaccinations thus far (and going forward).

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

I don't know what causes Autism but I do know that Measles, Mumps, Rubella, etc. will likely kill my children should they contract the viruses. I don't delay vaccinations.

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

it's a VERY personal decision that you and DH alone should make.

when you do research, don't go by message boards. most of us are not professionals, we are just moms who have our own opinions. they are valid opinions, but they are usually based on our own experiences. it really doesn't matter what i think on the matter since i am not the mother of your child. it matters what YOU think.

be careful of websites that are biased. know who the source of the information is. don't read something and call it fact when it can be written by some joe schmo in his living room who is presenting it as fact. there are many organizations out there that have an agenda (on any number of things). know your source and weigh the validity.

basically, read the opinions of both sides and go from there. good luck.

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

I think a huge problem with this issue is that there is so much misinformation out there that the real issue gets lost. From everything I have read and seen there is nothing to prove that the vaccine itself causes autism or any vaccine for that matter and I think this is what people focus on and why it is so easily dismissed by the peds. What I do believe and what I think has not been disproven AT ALL (in fact some evidence seems to admit this) that the REACTION caused by these vaccines in a small number of children can lead to problems including autism like issues. Thus, if your child does not react severely to shots in general or to the live virus shots imo I don't think there is much cause for worry (which is why most people won't have an issue since i think reactions at this level are the exception rather than the norm). HOWEVER, if your child is the type that could or has had serious reactions to shots I think this needs to be considered because the way his or her body reacts to the MMR (high fever etc.) could lead to problems. And this, I don't think anyone can really dispute. But, then again, the diseases themselves can lead to the same reactions which in turn could cause similar issues - so for us it boils down to - is the chance of having a serious reaction to the shot greater than the chance of having one to the disease itself?

HTH.

BTW, I strongly recc Dr. Sears book as well to anyone concerned about vaccines in general.

ETA: Also, I think that anyone who has a ped that will not discuss this with them and takes a hard line approach really is doing a disservice to their child. EVERY CHILD IS DIFFERENT. As a parent you have to consider your child's unique make up and it is you who will live with the consequences of your decisions so for a ped to not discuss this with you and take your individual child into account in his advice I feel is unprofessional and negligent.

Message edited 1/29/2009 12:24:54 PM.

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

Message edited 1/29/2009 1:31:54 PM.

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

Posted by Aries14

Posted by shamrock124

I don't know what causes Autism but I do know that Measles, Mumps, Rubella, etc. will likely kill my children should they contract the viruses. I don't delay vaccinations.

Just want to add... my nephew has autism and right his body is being attacked my the Measles - bc he did not have enough of an immune system to fight it off. My poor sister beats herself up about it everyday. The "vaccination" gave him the measles. He is 8 and getting wrose everyday. Did the shots cause the autism?? not sure, my sis believes so. But their is NO denying that he has the Measles today bc of a vaccination. He did not have an immune system and was way too young for anyone to know.

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

I like these threads... they always cause me to do research. sometimes I forget I'm a scientist and can look up things that others cant... like what the genes identified to be associated with autism are and what the proteins they encode actually do...

so there are 2 chromosomal regions ID'ed so far. The first is a mutation of the gene CNTNAP2 on chromosome 7 which encodes caspr2. This is believed to cause the majority of inherited autism cases. caspr2 is a protein that interacts with myelinating glia. People with a mutation in this gene have improper connections between the neurons and myelin (sort of like an extension cord with the insulation cracking/peeling). The neurons also have improper potassium channel distributions, which results in the neuronal signals having difficulty conducting down the cell (sort of like having a kink or crack in an elecrical wire). Obviously, this results in poor signaling in the brain.

then there is a hot spot for mutations, copy number changes, and deletions on chromosome 16 (16p11.2). this is believed to be responsible for the majority of spontaneous (i.e. not inherited from parents, rather a genetic mutation developed in the child) autism cases. This chromosome region encodes for about 25 genes. Notably, some of these genes are involved in immune system function. specifically, IGHV (heavy chain of antibodies) are endoded there. These proteins are critical for proper immune respones and antibody development. A mutation in this area could result in abberant immune reactions. When you immunize a child, you are purposefully stimulating the immune system to develop antibodies. In the case of children with a IGHV mutation, the immune response to the vaccine may be abberant. Fever and aches and pains are a part of the immune response NOT mediated by antibodies (aka. 'inate immunity'), and likely will take over when a healthy immune response does not occur. Additional immune genes in that area include ITGAM (encodes integrin alpha M, a portion of complement receptor 3... aka CD18). Mutations in this gene are associated with lupus, an autoimmune disease characterized by immune system hyperactivity.

Other proteins encoded in this region of chromosome 16 include a creatine transporter (brings creatine (a 'food') into neurons and muscles)...

At any rate, there are 22 other genes, and I don't have time to go through it right now... But as you can see, there is a DEFINITE immune system component to the genes linked to autism. So it isn't suprising that moms of autistic kids describe high fevers and abberant vaccination responses. Are the high fevers just another symptom of the gene deletion? Are they causing brain damage and triggering an autoimmune response (which it appears the chromosome 16 children would be more prone to have)? I don't know. Like I said, I suspect the latter is true in some cases.

In the end, you really have to follow your gut instinct, and make the decision on your own... and ask your ped for advice.

HTH

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

I do not believe in a causative link between autism and vaccinations. However, I do believe just like others have stated that there is an immunological response than is triggered by any "foreign" virus which may be introduced either via vaccination or a viral infection. I believe that autism is an autoimmune disorder that goes on to attack the brain. There have been some studies finding a correlation between Autism and Crohn's (a digestive autoimmune disease) which may perhaps explain why some parents report amelioration of autism symptoms with a diet change. The problem with the above theory, if correct, is that even if you do not vaccinate your child can still develop autism if he/she is exposed to any virus.

Mind you I am not a scientist just a nerd and a bit of hypochondriac/doctor wannabe that does WAY too much research

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

Posted by wannabemom

I like these threads... they always cause me to do research. sometimes I forget I'm a scientist and can look up things that others cant... like what the genes identified to be associated with autism are and what the proteins they encode actually do...

so there are 2 chromosomal regions ID'ed so far. The first is a mutation of the gene CNTNAP2 on chromosome 7 which encodes caspr2. This is believed to cause the majority of inherited autism cases. caspr2 is a protein that interacts with myelinating glia. People with a mutation in this gene have improper connections between the neurons and myelin (sort of like an extension cord with the insulation cracking/peeling). The neurons also have improper potassium channel distributions, which results in the neuronal signals having difficulty conducting down the cell (sort of like having a kink or crack in an elecrical wire). Obviously, this results in poor signaling in the brain.

then there is a hot spot for mutations, copy number changes, and deletions on chromosome 16 (16p11.2). this is believed to be responsible for the majority of spontaneous (i.e. not inherited from parents, rather a genetic mutation developed in the child) autism cases. This chromosome region encodes for about 25 genes. Notably, some of these genes are involved in immune system function. specifically, IGHV (heavy chain of antibodies) are endoded there. These proteins are critical for proper immune respones and antibody development. A mutation in this area could result in abberant immune reactions. When you immunize a child, you are purposefully stimulating the immune system to develop antibodies. In the case of children with a IGHV mutation, the immune response to the vaccine may be abberant. Fever and aches and pains are a part of the immune response NOT mediated by antibodies (aka. 'inate immunity'), and likely will take over when a healthy immune response does not occur. Additional immune genes in that area include ITGAM (encodes integrin alpha M, a portion of complement receptor 3... aka CD18). Mutations in this gene are associated with lupus, an autoimmune disease characterized by immune system hyperactivity.

Other proteins encoded in this region of chromosome 16 include a creatine transporter (brings creatine (a 'food') into neurons and muscles)...

At any rate, there are 22 other genes, and I don't have time to go through it right now... But as you can see, there is a DEFINITE immune system component to the genes linked to autism. So it isn't suprising that moms of autistic kids describe high fevers and abberant vaccination responses. Are the high fevers just another symptom of the gene deletion? Are they causing brain damage and triggering an autoimmune response (which it appears the chromosome 16 children would be more prone to have)? I don't know. Like I said, I suspect the latter is true in some cases.

In the end, you really have to follow your gut instinct, and make the decision on your own... and ask your ped for advice.

HTH

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

I think its a very personal and very difficult decision for any mom to make. I have given DD all her shots on schedule but have delayed the MMR and Chicken pox and will only give the MMR to her this summer before she starts playgroup in September -she will be 3 1/2 when she receives it.

I am pregnant with DC #2 and I will have a diffrent shot schedule for this next child - only giving one shot per visit not the two that DD got. I will also delay the MMR.

I do not agree that you should take your PED's words are gospel - just because they are medical professionals does not mean that they have the welfare of your child as their utmost responsibility. They practice what they are thought - you are a number and its one size fits all in their mind. I feel you should question authority always especially when it comes to your childs health.

Also most of my siblings and I have had measles and mumps when we were kids and lived to tell the tale with no side effects.

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

Posted by Aries14

Posted by shamrock124

I don't know what causes Autism but I do know that Measles, Mumps, Rubella, etc. will likely kill my children should they contract the viruses. I don't delay vaccinations.

Just want to add... my nephew has autism and right his body is being attacked my the Measles - bc he did not have enough of an immune system to fight it off. My poor sister beats herself up about it everyday. The "vaccination" gave him the measles. He is 8 and getting wrose everyday. Did the shots cause the autism?? not sure, my sis believes so. But their is NO denying that he has the Measles today bc of a vaccination. He did not have an immune system and was way too young for anyone to know.

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

Posted by Aries14

Posted by shamrock124

I don't know what causes Autism but I do know that Measles, Mumps, Rubella, etc. will likely kill my children should they contract the viruses. I don't delay vaccinations.

Just want to add... my nephew has autism and right his body is being attacked my the Measles - bc he did not have enough of an immune system to fight it off. My poor sister beats herself up about it everyday. The "vaccination" gave him the measles. He is 8 and getting wrose everyday. Did the shots cause the autism?? not sure, my sis believes so. But their is NO denying that he has the Measles today bc of a vaccination. He did not have an immune system and was way too young for anyone to know.

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

Posted by shamrock124

Posted by Aries14

Posted by shamrock124

I don't know what causes Autism but I do know that Measles, Mumps, Rubella, etc. will likely kill my children should they contract the viruses. I don't delay vaccinations.

Just want to add... my nephew has autism and right his body is being attacked my the Measles - bc he did not have enough of an immune system to fight it off. My poor sister beats herself up about it everyday. The "vaccination" gave him the measles. He is 8 and getting wrose everyday. Did the shots cause the autism?? not sure, my sis believes so. But their is NO denying that he has the Measles today bc of a vaccination. He did not have an immune system and was way too young for anyone to know.

This is some information that I found...The first dose of MMR vaccine produces immunity to measles in 95-98% of children vaccinated. The reason for the second dose is to protect those persons who did not become immune after one dose. After two doses of measles vaccine, 99% of persons become immune to the disease.

The vaccine is not 100% protection against this deadly virus but 99% protection is a good enough argument to me.

I'm sorry your nephew falls in to the % of people not protected by this vaccine when administered correctly. I hope he gets better.

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

Posted by shamrock124

Posted by Aries14

Posted by shamrock124

I don't know what causes Autism but I do know that Measles, Mumps, Rubella, etc. will likely kill my children should they contract the viruses. I don't delay vaccinations.

Just want to add... my nephew has autism and right his body is being attacked my the Measles - bc he did not have enough of an immune system to fight it off. My poor sister beats herself up about it everyday. The "vaccination" gave him the measles. He is 8 and getting wrose everyday. Did the shots cause the autism?? not sure, my sis believes so. But their is NO denying that he has the Measles today bc of a vaccination. He did not have an immune system and was way too young for anyone to know.

This is some information that I found...The first dose of MMR vaccine produces immunity to measles in 95-98% of children vaccinated. The reason for the second dose is to protect those persons who did not become immune after one dose. After two doses of measles vaccine, 99% of persons become immune to the disease.

The vaccine is not 100% protection against this deadly virus but 99% protection is a good enough argument to me.

I'm sorry your nephew falls in to the % of people not protected by this vaccine when administered correctly. I hope he gets better.

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

Posted by itsbabytime

Posted by shamrock124

Posted by Aries14

Posted by shamrock124

I don't know what causes Autism but I do know that Measles, Mumps, Rubella, etc. will likely kill my children should they contract the viruses. I don't delay vaccinations.

Just want to add... my nephew has autism and right his body is being attacked my the Measles - bc he did not have enough of an immune system to fight it off. My poor sister beats herself up about it everyday. The "vaccination" gave him the measles. He is 8 and getting wrose everyday. Did the shots cause the autism?? not sure, my sis believes so. But their is NO denying that he has the Measles today bc of a vaccination. He did not have an immune system and was way too young for anyone to know.

This is some information that I found...The first dose of MMR vaccine produces immunity to measles in 95-98% of children vaccinated. The reason for the second dose is to protect those persons who did not become immune after one dose. After two doses of measles vaccine, 99% of persons become immune to the disease.

The vaccine is not 100% protection against this deadly virus but 99% protection is a good enough argument to me.

I'm sorry your nephew falls in to the % of people not protected by this vaccine when administered correctly. I hope he gets better.

I thought she was saying that her nephew contracted the disease from the vaccination (which is rare but possible).

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

Posted by itsbabytime

Posted by shamrock124

Posted by Aries14

Posted by shamrock124

I don't know what causes Autism but I do know that Measles, Mumps, Rubella, etc. will likely kill my children should they contract the viruses. I don't delay vaccinations.

Just want to add... my nephew has autism and right his body is being attacked my the Measles - bc he did not have enough of an immune system to fight it off. My poor sister beats herself up about it everyday. The "vaccination" gave him the measles. He is 8 and getting wrose everyday. Did the shots cause the autism?? not sure, my sis believes so. But their is NO denying that he has the Measles today bc of a vaccination. He did not have an immune system and was way too young for anyone to know.

This is some information that I found...The first dose of MMR vaccine produces immunity to measles in 95-98% of children vaccinated. The reason for the second dose is to protect those persons who did not become immune after one dose. After two doses of measles vaccine, 99% of persons become immune to the disease.

The vaccine is not 100% protection against this deadly virus but 99% protection is a good enough argument to me.

I'm sorry your nephew falls in to the % of people not protected by this vaccine when administered correctly. I hope he gets better.

I thought she was saying that her nephew contracted the disease from the vaccination (which is rare but possible).

Message edited 1/29/2009 2:17:57 PM.

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

Re: Vaccinations.... And the scary link to Autism?

Posted by Aries14

Posted by itsbabytime

Posted by shamrock124

Posted by Aries14

Posted by shamrock124

I don't know what causes Autism but I do know that Measles, Mumps, Rubella, etc. will likely kill my children should they contract the viruses. I don't delay vaccinations.

Just want to add... my nephew has autism and right his body is being attacked my the Measles - bc he did not have enough of an immune system to fight it off. My poor sister beats herself up about it everyday. The "vaccination" gave him the measles. He is 8 and getting wrose everyday. Did the shots cause the autism?? not sure, my sis believes so. But their is NO denying that he has the Measles today bc of a vaccination. He did not have an immune system and was way too young for anyone to know.

This is some information that I found...The first dose of MMR vaccine produces immunity to measles in 95-98% of children vaccinated. The reason for the second dose is to protect those persons who did not become immune after one dose. After two doses of measles vaccine, 99% of persons become immune to the disease.

The vaccine is not 100% protection against this deadly virus but 99% protection is a good enough argument to me.

I'm sorry your nephew falls in to the % of people not protected by this vaccine when administered correctly. I hope he gets better.

I thought she was saying that her nephew contracted the disease from the vaccination (which is rare but possible).

yes, he did contract the disease from the vaccination. But, again, he had a VERY weak immune system that was not able to handle it.

ETA: we had no way of knowing of his weak immune system at the time the shot was given to him.