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Deedlebugs
Blessed
Member since 12/05 10281 total posts
Name:
Kiki
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by Ophelia
this whole "stepping stone to single payer" is unfortunately, fear mongering from the same people who label Obama a "socialist"
I am starting to think we as a people, as a nation, would have been better off to have entered into another depression. we were on the verge...and are still in dire straights...but I wonder what kind of tune some people would be singing if the **** had REALLY and truly hit the fan in their town.
I wonder what tune people would be singing if we relieved the 10 years after 1929. if people can comprehend what a frightening, devastating time that was.
these are facts. these are recounting what HAS happened.
railing against a legislation b/c of whyat some fear mongers say *could possibly* happen is so weird to me.
I do think it happened to fast, but like I've been saying, there is a far better direction for all of this ire.
I hope you are right that it will not be a stepping stone to a single payer. But everything from this man's past and who he has appointed lends me to believe otherwise. again my opinion
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Posted 3/23/10 3:42 PM  |
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Deedlebugs
Blessed
Member since 12/05 10281 total posts
Name:
Kiki
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by Deedlebugs
Posted by Ophelia
this whole "stepping stone to single payer" is unfortunately, fear mongering from the same people who label Obama a "socialist"
I am starting to think we as a people, as a nation, would have been better off to have entered into another depression. we were on the verge...and are still in dire straights...but I wonder what kind of tune some people would be singing if the **** had REALLY and truly hit the fan in their town.
I wonder what tune people would be singing if we relieved the 10 years after 1929. if people can comprehend what a frightening, devastating time that was.
these are facts. these are recounting what HAS happened.
railing against a legislation b/c of whyat some fear mongers say *could possibly* happen is so weird to me.
I do think it happened to fast, but like I've been saying, there is a far better direction for all of this ire.
I hope you are right that it will not be a stepping stone to a single payer. But everything from this man's past and who he has appointed lends me to believe otherwise. again my opinion
Tommy, log out of my account!
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| Posted 3/23/10 3:43 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by MrsM0829
Posted by Ophelia
ability to cross state lines...NO THANK YOU. that is a recipe for disaster.
Why do you say that? I recently went out of state for surgery because the specialist who was best able to treat my condition was located in Georgia. While I'm sure being from out of state may have created more paperwork, I'd hardly call it a recipe for disaster.
um....what?
having your health insurance PLAN managed from OOS has NOTHING to do with being able to see a doctor in another state.
it has to do with each states rules and regulations and what insurance companies can get away with. some of the worst insurers come from states with the most lenient laws.
two animals completely.
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| Posted 3/23/10 3:44 PM |
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MrsM0829
... With a cherry on top!!!
Member since 11/09 1332 total posts
Name:
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by MrsM0829
Posted by Ophelia
ability to cross state lines...NO THANK YOU. that is a recipe for disaster.
Why do you say that? I recently went out of state for surgery because the specialist who was best able to treat my condition was located in Georgia. While I'm sure being from out of state may have created more paperwork, I'd hardly call it a recipe for disaster.
um....what?
having your health insurance PLAN managed from OOS has NOTHING to do with being able to see a doctor in another state.
it has to do with each states rules and regulations and what insurance companies can get away with. some of the worst insurers come from states with the most lenient laws.
two animals completely.
Apparently, I misunderstood your post. That's what I get for multitasking. Apologies.
Message edited 3/23/2010 3:47:32 PM.
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| Posted 3/23/10 3:46 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by Deedlebugs
Posted by Deedlebugs
Posted by Ophelia
this whole "stepping stone to single payer" is unfortunately, fear mongering from the same people who label Obama a "socialist"
I am starting to think we as a people, as a nation, would have been better off to have entered into another depression. we were on the verge...and are still in dire straights...but I wonder what kind of tune some people would be singing if the **** had REALLY and truly hit the fan in their town.
I wonder what tune people would be singing if we relieved the 10 years after 1929. if people can comprehend what a frightening, devastating time that was.
these are facts. these are recounting what HAS happened.
railing against a legislation b/c of whyat some fear mongers say *could possibly* happen is so weird to me.
I do think it happened to fast, but like I've been saying, there is a far better direction for all of this ire.
I hope you are right that it will not be a stepping stone to a single payer. But everything from this man's past and who he has appointed lends me to believe otherwise. again my opinion
Tommy, log out of my account!
  
unfortunately those in power LOVE that we argue against ourselves. it is the perfect ruse. 
at the end of the day, I think that most people would like to see their fellow man taken care of in the most basic way. unfortunately that means for some businesses to have a smaller profit, which means getting ish from share holders, which means the board of directors getting fired. no one wants to get fired.
it's all about getting and keeping power. we are just pawns. from the drug (rx) industry, to the food industry to the health care industry to the war industry....
it has so little to do with us, and so much to do with the almighty  and almightly power.
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| Posted 3/23/10 3:49 PM |
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MrsH2009
Thank you St. Gerard!
Member since 8/09 6631 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by mommy2Alex
Posted by Otherme
Posted by mommy2Alex
Not for me. It made me  Because I think Obama is the worst thing for the country which is why he didn't get my vote. Not everyone here thinks Obama is a wonderful leader.
Not saying everyone does or should at all.
But to hear someone say "Obama's shady past" (to me at least) smacks of the poster subscribing to all that fear mongering that gets spewed from the likes of Glenn Beck. Which makes me not take anything else the poster said seriously
From the likes of Glenn Beck makes me  Please Obama does have ties to a lot of radical thinkers. They are in the White House with him. You can't deny that. From Wright, to Van Jones to Anita Hill they are all very left wing radicals (IMO).
IMO we need radicals. Our country is in serious trouble, and the status quo will no longer fly. Now, I come from a long line of politicians, state senators, and federal employees, and have respect for them. Saying that, all politicians deal with shady people and many bills have backroom deals going on. You grease my palm, I'll grease yours. It may not be right, but it's certainly not uniquel to the Democrats, or Obama.
EDT b/c I didn't like that I was so negative about our country the way it was previously phrased.
Message edited 3/23/2010 3:57:10 PM.
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| Posted 3/23/10 3:50 PM |
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OStewarts
LIF Adult
Member since 11/07 1096 total posts
Name:
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by evnme
Posted by mommy2Alex
 very well put Tommy2. Thank you. I really hope we can get this bill repealed/deemed unconstitutional and start over with real reform and not the stepping stone to a single payer system.
for you talk radio people: Mark Levin is starting a law suit over the unconstitutional way this was done
I am not sure why people think the bill is unconstitutional ?? It was voted on and passed and signed into law, right? Was something done improperly that people take issue with that I have not heard about?  I am not trying to be snarky, I really just don't understand the theory...
Message edited 3/23/2010 3:54:14 PM.
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| Posted 3/23/10 3:53 PM |
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heathergirl
Cocktail Time!
Member since 10/08 4978 total posts
Name:
American mouth
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by Otherme
Not saying everyone does or should at all.
But to hear someone say "Obama's shady past" (to me at least) smacks of the poster subscribing to all that fear mongering that gets spewed from the likes of Glenn Beck. Which makes me not take anything else the poster said seriously
I agree. Here was a perfect opportunity to educate your point to those who ARE Obama supporters but are unsure of this bill.
Why would you write this out for those who are like-minded? Who cares then? Wasn't the point to sway people to your *side*?
ITA. Poorly thought out.
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| Posted 3/23/10 3:53 PM |
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tommy2
LIF Infant
Member since 3/08 193 total posts
Name:
Tommy
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by MrsH2009
Posted by mommy2Alex
Posted by Otherme
Posted by mommy2Alex
Not for me. It made me Because I think Obama is the worst thing for the country which is why he didn't get my vote. Not everyone here thinks Obama is a wonderful leader.
Not saying everyone does or should at all.
But to hear someone say "Obama's shady past" (to me at least) smacks of the poster subscribing to all that fear mongering that gets spewed from the likes of Glenn Beck. Which makes me not take anything else the poster said seriously
From the likes of Glenn Beck makes me Please Obama does have ties to a lot of radical thinkers. They are in the White House with him. You can't deny that. From Wright, to Van Jones to Anita Hill they are all very left wing radicals (IMO).
IMO we need radicals. Our country is becoming a joke, and the status quo will no longer fly. Now, I come from a long line of politicians, state senators, and federal employees, and have respect for them. Saying that, all politicians deal with shady people and many bills have backroom deals going on. You grease my palm, I'll grease yours. It may not be right, but it's certainly not special to the Democrats, or Obama.
We need radicals......Umm really? your right what we need now is a few more Hitler's, Castro's, and Stalin's. Now thats a scary thought.
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| Posted 3/23/10 3:58 PM |
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tommy2
LIF Infant
Member since 3/08 193 total posts
Name:
Tommy
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by heathergirl
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by Otherme
Not saying everyone does or should at all.
But to hear someone say "Obama's shady past" (to me at least) smacks of the poster subscribing to all that fear mongering that gets spewed from the likes of Glenn Beck. Which makes me not take anything else the poster said seriously
I agree. Here was a perfect opportunity to educate your point to those who ARE Obama supporters but are unsure of this bill.
Why would you write this out for those who are like-minded? Who cares then? Wasn't the point to sway people to your *side*?
ITA. Poorly thought out.
Sorry i spoke poorly of the annointed 1. Seriously get over it. its the truth.
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| Posted 3/23/10 4:00 PM |
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MrsH2009
Thank you St. Gerard!
Member since 8/09 6631 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by tommy2
Posted by MrsH2009
Posted by mommy2Alex
Posted by Otherme
Posted by mommy2Alex
Not for me. It made me Because I think Obama is the worst thing for the country which is why he didn't get my vote. Not everyone here thinks Obama is a wonderful leader.
Not saying everyone does or should at all.
But to hear someone say "Obama's shady past" (to me at least) smacks of the poster subscribing to all that fear mongering that gets spewed from the likes of Glenn Beck. Which makes me not take anything else the poster said seriously
From the likes of Glenn Beck makes me Please Obama does have ties to a lot of radical thinkers. They are in the White House with him. You can't deny that. From Wright, to Van Jones to Anita Hill they are all very left wing radicals (IMO).
IMO we need radicals. Our country is becoming a joke, and the status quo will no longer fly. Now, I come from a long line of politicians, state senators, and federal employees, and have respect for them. Saying that, all politicians deal with shady people and many bills have backroom deals going on. You grease my palm, I'll grease yours. It may not be right, but it's certainly not special to the Democrats, or Obama.
We need radicals......Umm really? your right what we need now is a few more Hitler's, Castro's, and Stalin's. Now thats a scary thought.
A radical is someone who wants change. That's all I meant, not sure how you jumped to these people. According to Websters- a departure from the traditional
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| Posted 3/23/10 4:00 PM |
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evnme
My little lamb
Member since 8/05 12633 total posts
Name:
aka momma2b
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by heathergirl
Posted by Porrruss
Posted by Otherme
Not saying everyone does or should at all.
But to hear someone say "Obama's shady past" (to me at least) smacks of the poster subscribing to all that fear mongering that gets spewed from the likes of Glenn Beck. Which makes me not take anything else the poster said seriously
I agree. Here was a perfect opportunity to educate your point to those who ARE Obama supporters but are unsure of this bill.
Why would you write this out for those who are like-minded? Who cares then? Wasn't the point to sway people to your *side*?
ITA. Poorly thought out.
the way I read the OP, it was not meant to sway to her "side."
she was voicing her opinion on the subject.
being a long time LIFer, it is clear that the majority of the active posters on political subjects lean to the left on LIF.
having a healthy and respectful conversation is 1 thing, but over and over i see (and experience too, as i have been personally attacked in threads and in FMs) people being bashed for their opinions which are different from the majority.
it's perfectly fine to disagree, but not to attack over differing views.
just my 2 cents...
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| Posted 3/23/10 4:04 PM |
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suvenR
designer mutt
Member since 5/05 4239 total posts
Name:
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
I'm curious to know if people really understand the cost of this bill. And, no, I'm not making the argument that people just shouldn't be insured or we just shouldn't help others.
But, I am making the point that in all likelihood, the majority of people on these boards will be hit financially. Can you afford that?
Just to share some information, the Cadillac tax will be 40% of the value of individual plans costing more than $8500 per year and family plans costing more than $23,000 per year in 2014.
I administrate benefits for a group of 55 people- and we are considered a healthy group.
As of now, our individual plans (HMO and POS) are over $8,500 per year for an individual. Our family coverage is a TOUCH below $23,000 per year. By 2014, both will absolutely be above those numbers.
And, we have deductibles, copays and payroll deductions to pay for already.
The Cadillac tax is paid by the insurance company, but will absolutely be passed down to us as individuals.
I have had people asking me ALL DAY what will happen to our benefits...will they be cut and if they aren't, will any of us be able to afford them.
In closing, I believe there were other options for fixing the astronomical costs associated with health insurance. And, I believe that everyone should have access to care. But, I also believe this Bill will amount to a great deal of financial strain for many people who don't even realize it. And, as I discussed yesterday, I believe that the quality of care will diminish for everyone because the most vicious culprits of the problem seem to remain unnoticed.
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| Posted 3/23/10 4:08 PM |
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by Ophelia
at the end of the day, I think that most people would like to see their fellow man taken care of in the most basic way. unfortunately that means for some businesses to have a smaller profit, which means getting ish from share holders, which means the board of directors getting fired. no one wants to get fired.
You are a lot less cynical than I am- which is good- but I don't believe that to be true at all. So much of what I witnessed in this debate- people being heckled at town hall meetings while trying to share the experience of being uninsured, to Rush Limbaugh and co and their meanness, to signs with Obama as Hitler, John Lewis being called a ******, even some of the comments here, make me think that too many people don't give a rat's behind about others. Honestly, I am not really concerned about what future generations have to pay. We're destroying the planet anyway. Let's focus on here and now.
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| Posted 3/23/10 4:12 PM |
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mrsej
The cutest!
Member since 1/07 2495 total posts
Name:
Mommy
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by suvenR
I'm curious to know if people really understand the cost of this bill. And, no, I'm not making the argument that people just shouldn't be insured or we just shouldn't help others.
But, I am making the point that in all likelihood, the majority of people on these boards will be hit financially. Can you afford that?
Just to share some information, the Cadillac tax will be 40% of the value of individual plans costing more than $8500 per year and family plans costing more than $23,000 per year in 2014.
I administrate benefits for a group of 55 people- and we are considered a healthy group.
As of now, our individual plans (HMO and POS) are over $8,500 per year for an individual. Our family coverage is a TOUCH below $23,000 per year. By 2014, both will absolutely be above those numbers.
And, we have deductibles, copays and payroll deductions to pay for already.
The Cadillac tax is paid by the insurance company, but will absolutely be passed down to us as individuals.
I have had people asking me ALL DAY what will happen to our benefits...will they be cut and if they aren't, will any of us be able to afford them.
In closing, I believe there were other options for fixing the astronomical costs associated with health insurance. And, I believe that everyone should have access to care. But, I also believe this Bill will amount to a great deal of financial strain for many people who don't even realize it. And, as I discussed yesterday, I believe that the quality of care will diminish for everyone because the most vicious culprits of the problem seem to remain unnoticed.
ITA - the cadillac tax is going to hit alot of people - it is totally going to come down to us. Either my employer is going to make us pay higher premiums or lower my salary or not offer insurance at all and just pay the fine. I love my insurance and i have a really strong feeling that this bill is not going to help me and my family at all..in fact, it will hurt us. I understand the need to help those that are without, but can't that be done without hurting those that have decent coverage?
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| Posted 3/23/10 4:13 PM |
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MrsH2009
Thank you St. Gerard!
Member since 8/09 6631 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by suvenR
I'm curious to know if people really understand the cost of this bill. And, no, I'm not making the argument that people just shouldn't be insured or we just shouldn't help others.
But, I am making the point that in all likelihood, the majority of people on these boards will be hit financially. Can you afford that?
Just to share some information, the Cadillac tax will be 40% of the value of individual plans costing more than $8500 per year and family plans costing more than $23,000 per year in 2014.
I administrate benefits for a group of 55 people- and we are considered a healthy group.
As of now, our individual plans (HMO and POS) are over $8,500 per year for an individual. Our family coverage is a TOUCH below $23,000 per year. By 2014, both will absolutely be above those numbers.
And, we have deductibles, copays and payroll deductions to pay for already.
The Cadillac tax is paid by the insurance company, but will absolutely be passed down to us as individuals.
I have had people asking me ALL DAY what will happen to our benefits...will they be cut and if they aren't, will any of us be able to afford them.
In closing, I believe there were other options for fixing the astronomical costs associated with health insurance. And, I believe that everyone should have access to care. But, I also believe this Bill will amount to a great deal of financial strain for many people who don't even realize it. And, as I discussed yesterday, I believe that the quality of care will diminish for everyone because the most vicious culprits of the problem seem to remain unnoticed.
While I still support this bill, I think that this is a valid argument.
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| Posted 3/23/10 4:14 PM |
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neenie
Member since 5/05 22351 total posts
Name:
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
I was recently there when the CEO of North Shore LIJ was talking about how horrible Obama's health care bill really is. Honestly, i find him to be an extremely intelligent man (the CEO) and i think the fact that he opposes this so strongly and that he and his colleagues had appealed to Obama to not go through with it- speaks volumes.
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| Posted 3/23/10 4:16 PM |
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
ITA! We need tort reform for one. I also believe fines for those who don't obtain insurance is a violation of due process.
We need health care reform, but this was rushed out and will harm small businesses and many families!
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| Posted 3/23/10 4:21 PM |
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suvenR
designer mutt
Member since 5/05 4239 total posts
Name:
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
I forgot to add- effective with this bill, FSA limits have just been reduced to $2,500 per year. What that means for people/families who were participating at the $5,000 level before is an approximate $700 per year income tax. And, that's happening now.
For those who aren't familiar with FSA plans, they are designed to help people by allowing them to use pre-tax money for their unreimbursed medical expenses. Not luxuries, not cosmetic procedures, but bona fide medical expenses.
If a family really needed to set aside $5,000 per year for this, it means they had high out of pocket medical expenses. And, now those people just took a hit.
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| Posted 3/23/10 4:26 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by MrsProfessor
Posted by Ophelia
at the end of the day, I think that most people would like to see their fellow man taken care of in the most basic way. unfortunately that means for some businesses to have a smaller profit, which means getting ish from share holders, which means the board of directors getting fired. no one wants to get fired.
You are a lot less cynical than I am- which is good- but I don't believe that to be true at all. So much of what I witnessed in this debate- people being heckled at town hall meetings while trying to share the experience of being uninsured, to Rush Limbaugh and co and their meanness, to signs with Obama as Hitler, John Lewis being called a ******, even some of the comments here, make me think that too many people don't give a rat's behind about others. Honestly, I am not really concerned about what future generations have to pay. We're destroying the planet anyway. Let's focus on here and now.
Well, that's until their little secured life ceased to exist. Both spouses lose their job, lose their house and pay $800 per month in COBRA.
Then they will sing another tune!!!!
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| Posted 3/23/10 4:45 PM |
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maybesoon
LIF Adult
Member since 9/09 5981 total posts
Name:
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by mommy2Alex
very well put Tommy2. Thank you. I really hope we can get this bill repealed/deemed unconstitutional and start over with real reform and not the stepping stone to a single payer system.
ITA
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| Posted 3/23/10 4:46 PM |
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DiamondGirl
You are my I love you
Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
Name:
DiamondMama
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by mommy2Alex
Not for me. It made me Because I think Obama is the worst thing for the country which is why he didn't get my vote. Not everyone here thinks Obama is a wonderful leader.
You don't have to think someone is a wonderful leader to not speak untruths and try to create fear in people.
I was not a fan of Bush but I didn't walk around spewing conspiracy theories about him
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| Posted 3/23/10 4:51 PM |
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smdl
I love Gary too..on a plate!
Member since 5/06 32461 total posts
Name:
me
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by DiamondGirl
Posted by mommy2Alex
Not for me. It made me Because I think Obama is the worst thing for the country which is why he didn't get my vote. Not everyone here thinks Obama is a wonderful leader.
You don't have to think someone is a wonderful leader to not speak untruths and try to create fear in people.
I was not a fan of Bush but I didn't walk around spewing conspiracy theories about him
Claiming that Obama administration is corrupted. Yes! Well , whose administration was NOT???? Bush's administration was not corrupted???
Let's get out and smell the roses!!!!
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| Posted 3/23/10 4:57 PM |
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
I have almost always been an Obama supporter- but I also don't think John McCain would have been a good president- if the way he ran his campaign was even a small indication of how he'd run his administration, it would have been bad. He couldn't inspire loyalty in his own people- not a good sign. And his VP pick showed a huge error in judgement, IMO, one we'd really pay for.
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| Posted 3/23/10 5:03 PM |
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tommy2
LIF Infant
Member since 3/08 193 total posts
Name:
Tommy
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Re: Why I am against the Healthcare Bill...
Posted by smdl
Posted by DiamondGirl
Posted by mommy2Alex
Not for me. It made me Because I think Obama is the worst thing for the country which is why he didn't get my vote. Not everyone here thinks Obama is a wonderful leader.
You don't have to think someone is a wonderful leader to not speak untruths and try to create fear in people.
I was not a fan of Bush but I didn't walk around spewing conspiracy theories about him
Claiming that Obama administration is corrupted. Yes! Well , whose administration was NOT???? Bush's administration was not corrupted???
Let's get out and smell the roses!!!!
So we should stand for corruption then? basically thats exactly what your saying. Corruption is never ok but when it affects 1/6 of the economy theirs a problem.
and what conspiracy theories do u speak? Obama has been recorded saying that he wants Healthcare to be single payer.
Like i said (starter home) unless we vote these guys out in November.
once again my opinion thx.
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| Posted 3/23/10 5:03 PM |
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