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Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Posted by seaside
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by seaside
I told a friend about this thread today, and I mentioned that I was asked "wtf is wrong with you" for saying that excluding a whole group like that is discrimination, whether or not it's intentional.
She asked me what kind of online community tolerated that and functioned like that.
I told her I've been surprised by things I've seen on here before, but that kind of grossness wasn't nearly the most appalling, ignorant, or ugly thing I saw on this thread.
I hardly view this situation as discriminatory. The poster was not told she couldn't participate in the block party because she was Jewish.
It could be viewed as discriminatory if they hold the block party on Yom Kippur annually.
Tolerance and respect of one's religion/beliefs is one thing, but explain to me why a multi-religious community must observe a specific religion's holiday as well?
Courtesy.
Respect.
It's the neighborly thing to do.
This, plus it is discrimination--simply because it categorically excludes all members of a religion. Again--it may be unintentional discrimination, borne of ignorance--but it is discrimination. When you make a rule or a screen that operates to categorically block out a race, religion, sex, etc., you are categorically excluding people because of their status.
Do they owe you a legal duty? No--but it's discrimination, just like if a condo board in an apartment held their annual party on Easter Sunday, when Christians go to church. It may be intended or not (I have no idea)--but it operates to exclude people based upon the group they belong to. Here, it's a minority group that (clearly) many on LI are biased against to begin with.
ETA: that "clearly" was inspired by some of what I saw here today, but not by anyone quoted here.
Except that this is not ANNUAL...then I would agree. This sounds like it was a one time conflict
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Posted 7/24/13 5:28 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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Goobster
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Member since 5/07 27557 total posts
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Posted by seaside. Here, it's a minority group that (clearly) many on LI are biased against to begin with.
ETA: that "clearly" was inspired by some of what I saw here today, but not by anyone quoted here.
I was just going to ask you what that meant.
Honestly, if the date picked excluded many people, I would feel that way. But I will take a bet it's only her family or maybe another one or two that the date may interfere with. B/c if the date was a problem for so many, they would have chosen another date. I just see it as the OP happens to be Jewish. And the block party happened to work best on that date. I don't see any correlation b/w someone being excluded b/c of their religion. Just b/c someone is of a particular religion, they obviously choose if they want to uphold that religious custom on a particular holiday. For ex, I am Catholic but if I had a block party on Easter, I might choose to not go to visit my family, not go to mass, and have a block party at my home. Or I can choose to not go to the block party and go through my usual religious observance. Now mind you, I am not a devout Catholic but is anyone to judge what level of religion I practice? This is strictly a numbers thing IMO, and that's why the date was picked. I think it's so unfair to assume the planners of that block party are biased or insensitive, etc. JMO
OP may have told them that date didn't work for her, but I am sure all they heard was that the date didn't work for her just as they heard a lot of things from a lot of neighbors i bet.
Message edited 7/24/2013 5:33:50 PM.
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| Posted 7/24/13 5:33 PM |
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chilltocam
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 9141 total posts
Name:
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Posted by brownie
Posted by seaside
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by seaside
I told a friend about this thread today, and I mentioned that I was asked "wtf is wrong with you" for saying that excluding a whole group like that is discrimination, whether or not it's intentional.
She asked me what kind of online community tolerated that and functioned like that.
I told her I've been surprised by things I've seen on here before, but that kind of grossness wasn't nearly the most appalling, ignorant, or ugly thing I saw on this thread.
I hardly view this situation as discriminatory. The poster was not told she couldn't participate in the block party because she was Jewish.
It could be viewed as discriminatory if they hold the block party on Yom Kippur annually.
Tolerance and respect of one's religion/beliefs is one thing, but explain to me why a multi-religious community must observe a specific religion's holiday as well?
Courtesy.
Respect.
It's the neighborly thing to do.
This, plus it is discrimination--simply because it categorically excludes all members of a religion. Again--it may be unintentional discrimination, borne of ignorance--but it is discrimination. When you make a rule or a screen that operates to categorically block out a race, religion, sex, etc., you are categorically excluding people because of their status.
Do they owe you a legal duty? No--but it's discrimination, just like if a condo board in an apartment held their annual party on Easter Sunday, when Christians go to church. It may be intended or not (I have no idea)--but it operates to exclude people based upon the group they belong to. Here, it's a minority group that (clearly) many on LI are biased against to begin with.
ETA: that "clearly" was inspired by some of what I saw here today, but not by anyone quoted here.
Except that this is not ANNUAL...then I would agree. This sounds like it was a one time conflict
It can still be discrimination - even if it only happens once. Maybe unintentional, but still discriminatory. There does not have to be a pattern of behavior for it to be discrimination. When it comes to excluding someone due to a religious reason, and what other have said and I agree is even worse - ignoring the person who brings it to your attention - it does come across as discrimination.
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| Posted 7/24/13 5:36 PM |
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Chatham-Chick
*********************
Member since 5/05 10311 total posts
Name:
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Posted by chilltocam
Posted by brownie
Posted by seaside
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by seaside
I told a friend about this thread today, and I mentioned that I was asked "wtf is wrong with you" for saying that excluding a whole group like that is discrimination, whether or not it's intentional.
She asked me what kind of online community tolerated that and functioned like that.
I told her I've been surprised by things I've seen on here before, but that kind of grossness wasn't nearly the most appalling, ignorant, or ugly thing I saw on this thread.
I hardly view this situation as discriminatory. The poster was not told she couldn't participate in the block party because she was Jewish.
It could be viewed as discriminatory if they hold the block party on Yom Kippur annually.
Tolerance and respect of one's religion/beliefs is one thing, but explain to me why a multi-religious community must observe a specific religion's holiday as well?
Courtesy.
Respect.
It's the neighborly thing to do.
This, plus it is discrimination--simply because it categorically excludes all members of a religion. Again--it may be unintentional discrimination, borne of ignorance--but it is discrimination. When you make a rule or a screen that operates to categorically block out a race, religion, sex, etc., you are categorically excluding people because of their status.
Do they owe you a legal duty? No--but it's discrimination, just like if a condo board in an apartment held their annual party on Easter Sunday, when Christians go to church. It may be intended or not (I have no idea)--but it operates to exclude people based upon the group they belong to. Here, it's a minority group that (clearly) many on LI are biased against to begin with.
ETA: that "clearly" was inspired by some of what I saw here today, but not by anyone quoted here.
Except that this is not ANNUAL...then I would agree. This sounds like it was a one time conflict
It can still be discrimination - even if it only happens once. Maybe unintentional, but still discriminatory. There does not have to be a pattern of behavior for it to be discrimination. When it comes to excluding someone due to a religious reason, and what other have said and I agree is even worse - ignoring the person who brings it to your attention - it does come across as discrimination.
So every fundraiser, marathon or event that happens to fall on a religious holiday is considered discrimination?
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| Posted 7/24/13 5:44 PM |
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MrsPenthouse
LIF Adult
Member since 11/10 924 total posts
Name:
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Posted by EricaAlt
Posted by MrsPenthouse
I'd think you were really nasty. In your situation, I'd sign and let the majority have their fun. The world does not revolve around me.
Really? It's nasty to not sign when she said that date is the holiest of holidays for the Jewish religion and she should just suck it up and sign it? It you read all the posts you'd understand why she shouldn't. Did the other neighbors know the date was a Jewish holiday? Probably not, but the person organizing it should've first seen it on the calendar and if she missed it there then when the PP emailed her letting her know. The point is the date should've never been picked in the first place. It's just wrong. Does the world revolve around me? No, but when considering a neighborly block party it should've been considered and the date should've never been a choice.
I read the posts, I understand the viewpoint and in spite of all that, my opinion stands. If it works for the vast majority I would never be a roadblock....my beliefs should not deter others from having fun.
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| Posted 7/24/13 5:45 PM |
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
Name:
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Posted by chilltocam
Posted by brownie
Posted by seaside
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by seaside
I told a friend about this thread today, and I mentioned that I was asked "wtf is wrong with you" for saying that excluding a whole group like that is discrimination, whether or not it's intentional.
She asked me what kind of online community tolerated that and functioned like that.
I told her I've been surprised by things I've seen on here before, but that kind of grossness wasn't nearly the most appalling, ignorant, or ugly thing I saw on this thread.
I hardly view this situation as discriminatory. The poster was not told she couldn't participate in the block party because she was Jewish.
It could be viewed as discriminatory if they hold the block party on Yom Kippur annually.
Tolerance and respect of one's religion/beliefs is one thing, but explain to me why a multi-religious community must observe a specific religion's holiday as well?
Courtesy.
Respect.
It's the neighborly thing to do.
This, plus it is discrimination--simply because it categorically excludes all members of a religion. Again--it may be unintentional discrimination, borne of ignorance--but it is discrimination. When you make a rule or a screen that operates to categorically block out a race, religion, sex, etc., you are categorically excluding people because of their status.
Do they owe you a legal duty? No--but it's discrimination, just like if a condo board in an apartment held their annual party on Easter Sunday, when Christians go to church. It may be intended or not (I have no idea)--but it operates to exclude people based upon the group they belong to. Here, it's a minority group that (clearly) many on LI are biased against to begin with.
ETA: that "clearly" was inspired by some of what I saw here today, but not by anyone quoted here.
Except that this is not ANNUAL...then I would agree. This sounds like it was a one time conflict
It can still be discrimination - even if it only happens once. Maybe unintentional, but still discriminatory. There does not have to be a pattern of behavior for it to be discrimination. When it comes to excluding someone due to a religious reason, and what other have said and I agree is even worse - ignoring the person who brings it to your attention - it does come across as discrimination.
I don't know if you mean this in a legal sense or not (I have no idea) but to *me* it seems like a stretch, otherwise you could go back and take every public event and claim that it interfered with SOMEONE'S religious holiday. I think ignoring the email the OP sent out is really the crux of the argument here because she brought it to their attention and they ignored it (if I followed that correctly). But initially scheduling it and it happen to be falling on a religious holiday? I just don't personally believe that is discriminatory, how could you know all of your neighbor's religious holidays and then try to accommodate everyone?
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| Posted 7/24/13 5:45 PM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Legally, you don't even have to know, and you could be discriminating. Here, they knew. No question about it. All I meant was, even if they weren't trying to exclude Jews, that's what they were doing, and they knew they were doing it--categorically--so to me, it's discriminatory.
That kind of a block party is not going to make an excluded minority feel welcome on the block---whether or not it was the organizers' intent to exclude. My only point all along.
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| Posted 7/24/13 5:58 PM |
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Jacksmommy
My love muffin!
Member since 1/07 5819 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Posted by brownie
Posted by chilltocam
Posted by brownie
Posted by seaside
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by seaside
I told a friend about this thread today, and I mentioned that I was asked "wtf is wrong with you" for saying that excluding a whole group like that is discrimination, whether or not it's intentional.
She asked me what kind of online community tolerated that and functioned like that.
I told her I've been surprised by things I've seen on here before, but that kind of grossness wasn't nearly the most appalling, ignorant, or ugly thing I saw on this thread.
I hardly view this situation as discriminatory. The poster was not told she couldn't participate in the block party because she was Jewish.
It could be viewed as discriminatory if they hold the block party on Yom Kippur annually.
Tolerance and respect of one's religion/beliefs is one thing, but explain to me why a multi-religious community must observe a specific religion's holiday as well?
Courtesy.
Respect.
It's the neighborly thing to do.
This, plus it is discrimination--simply because it categorically excludes all members of a religion. Again--it may be unintentional discrimination, borne of ignorance--but it is discrimination. When you make a rule or a screen that operates to categorically block out a race, religion, sex, etc., you are categorically excluding people because of their status.
Do they owe you a legal duty? No--but it's discrimination, just like if a condo board in an apartment held their annual party on Easter Sunday, when Christians go to church. It may be intended or not (I have no idea)--but it operates to exclude people based upon the group they belong to. Here, it's a minority group that (clearly) many on LI are biased against to begin with.
ETA: that "clearly" was inspired by some of what I saw here today, but not by anyone quoted here.
Except that this is not ANNUAL...then I would agree. This sounds like it was a one time conflict
It can still be discrimination - even if it only happens once. Maybe unintentional, but still discriminatory. There does not have to be a pattern of behavior for it to be discrimination. When it comes to excluding someone due to a religious reason, and what other have said and I agree is even worse - ignoring the person who brings it to your attention - it does come across as discrimination.
I don't know if you mean this in a legal sense or not (I have no idea) but to *me* it seems like a stretch, otherwise you could go back and take every public event and claim that it interfered with SOMEONE'S religious holiday. I think ignoring the email the OP sent out is really the crux of the argument here because she brought it to their attention and they ignored it (if I followed that correctly). But initially scheduling it and it happen to be falling on a religious holiday? I just don't personally believe that is discriminatory, how could you know all of your neighbor's religious holidays and then try to accommodate everyone?
Because you ask people! ON the flyer, it said only 19 out of 44 homes participated. That doesn't seem like a very good ratio for a block party. And I WAS one of those 19 (along with my neighbor who also will not be participating because they did this) You ask, what was the problem. How many religious holidays occur on the weekends between august and September. Can members of other religions besides mine help me out here? I know Ramadan is not good for Islamic members and lasts until August 8th. As I pointed out, Yom Kippur is on Saturday the 14th. I looked it up. I don't see any Catholic religious holidays or any other religions that I know about. Please enlighten me if there are any others! So, if I were planning an event, I wouldn't plan it until after August 8th and Not Saturday the 14th. I would do this because I am courteous and have respect for people.
That leaves 9 weekend dates in September and 7 in August. They couldn't offer 2 dates out of those 16? Does that seem unrealistic? To me it doesn't, but maybe I'm just crazy like that. Just like when I planned my own wedding I looked to see what holidays were when and didn't want to EXCLUDE anyone. But again, maybe I'm just crazy like that!
Message edited 7/24/2013 6:00:47 PM.
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| Posted 7/24/13 5:59 PM |
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JennP
LIF Adult
Member since 10/06 3986 total posts
Name:
Jenn
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Posted by brownie
Posted by chilltocam
Posted by brownie
Posted by seaside
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by seaside
I told a friend about this thread today, and I mentioned that I was asked "wtf is wrong with you" for saying that excluding a whole group like that is discrimination, whether or not it's intentional.
She asked me what kind of online community tolerated that and functioned like that.
I told her I've been surprised by things I've seen on here before, but that kind of grossness wasn't nearly the most appalling, ignorant, or ugly thing I saw on this thread.
I hardly view this situation as discriminatory. The poster was not told she couldn't participate in the block party because she was Jewish.
It could be viewed as discriminatory if they hold the block party on Yom Kippur annually.
Tolerance and respect of one's religion/beliefs is one thing, but explain to me why a multi-religious community must observe a specific religion's holiday as well?
Courtesy.
Respect.
It's the neighborly thing to do.
This, plus it is discrimination--simply because it categorically excludes all members of a religion. Again--it may be unintentional discrimination, borne of ignorance--but it is discrimination. When you make a rule or a screen that operates to categorically block out a race, religion, sex, etc., you are categorically excluding people because of their status.
Do they owe you a legal duty? No--but it's discrimination, just like if a condo board in an apartment held their annual party on Easter Sunday, when Christians go to church. It may be intended or not (I have no idea)--but it operates to exclude people based upon the group they belong to. Here, it's a minority group that (clearly) many on LI are biased against to begin with.
ETA: that "clearly" was inspired by some of what I saw here today, but not by anyone quoted here.
Except that this is not ANNUAL...then I would agree. This sounds like it was a one time conflict
It can still be discrimination - even if it only happens once. Maybe unintentional, but still discriminatory. There does not have to be a pattern of behavior for it to be discrimination. When it comes to excluding someone due to a religious reason, and what other have said and I agree is even worse - ignoring the person who brings it to your attention - it does come across as discrimination.
I just don't personally believe that is discriminatory, how could you know all of your neighbor's religious holidays and then try to accommodate everyone?
Answering as a non Jew: I think that this is just one day in the Jewish faith that you just don't mess with, and they messed with it, they knew they messed with it, and for that they were wrong.
To answer your question more directly, I think there are standard holy days that should be avoided regardless - of which Yom Kippur is one - and beyond that it's a judgment call depending on the neighborhood. (I.e. in a predominantly Hindu neighborhood you might avoid additional days.)
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| Posted 7/24/13 6:32 PM |
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Ugh
LIF Infant
Member since 9/09 63 total posts
Name:
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
...
Message edited 7/24/2013 6:59:53 PM.
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| Posted 7/24/13 6:45 PM |
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LIMomma
LIF Adolescent
Member since 6/12 523 total posts
Name:
Momma
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Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
If they only have 19 homes then the application should not be approved
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| Posted 7/24/13 9:34 PM |
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chilltocam
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 9141 total posts
Name:
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by chilltocam
Posted by brownie
Posted by seaside
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by seaside
I told a friend about this thread today, and I mentioned that I was asked "wtf is wrong with you" for saying that excluding a whole group like that is discrimination, whether or not it's intentional.
She asked me what kind of online community tolerated that and functioned like that.
I told her I've been surprised by things I've seen on here before, but that kind of grossness wasn't nearly the most appalling, ignorant, or ugly thing I saw on this thread.
I hardly view this situation as discriminatory. The poster was not told she couldn't participate in the block party because she was Jewish.
It could be viewed as discriminatory if they hold the block party on Yom Kippur annually.
Tolerance and respect of one's religion/beliefs is one thing, but explain to me why a multi-religious community must observe a specific religion's holiday as well?
Courtesy.
Respect.
It's the neighborly thing to do.
This, plus it is discrimination--simply because it categorically excludes all members of a religion. Again--it may be unintentional discrimination, borne of ignorance--but it is discrimination. When you make a rule or a screen that operates to categorically block out a race, religion, sex, etc., you are categorically excluding people because of their status.
Do they owe you a legal duty? No--but it's discrimination, just like if a condo board in an apartment held their annual party on Easter Sunday, when Christians go to church. It may be intended or not (I have no idea)--but it operates to exclude people based upon the group they belong to. Here, it's a minority group that (clearly) many on LI are biased against to begin with.
ETA: that "clearly" was inspired by some of what I saw here today, but not by anyone quoted here.
Except that this is not ANNUAL...then I would agree. This sounds like it was a one time conflict
It can still be discrimination - even if it only happens once. Maybe unintentional, but still discriminatory. There does not have to be a pattern of behavior for it to be discrimination. When it comes to excluding someone due to a religious reason, and what other have said and I agree is even worse - ignoring the person who brings it to your attention - it does come across as discrimination.
So every fundraiser, marathon or event that happens to fall on a religious holiday is considered discrimination?
Those are not neighborhood events - where taking into consideration (and CONSIDERATION is the operative word here) the needs of every possible participant is not feasible. Here, you are talking about a small group of people, planning an event for that group - yet they are failing to take into consideration the needs of the group (even though it would be very easy to do so) and have completely ignored information that their choice of dates makes it impossible for some of the group to participate (OK, if you want to mince words, it doesn't make it impossible - but it makes them have to choose between the party or honoring their religion)
Message edited 7/24/2013 10:27:59 PM.
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| Posted 7/24/13 10:26 PM |
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Chatham-Chick
*********************
Member since 5/05 10311 total posts
Name:
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Posted by chilltocam
Those are not neighborhood events - where taking into consideration (and CONSIDERATION is the operative word here) the needs of every possible participant is not feasible. Here, you are talking about a small group of people, planning an event for that group - yet they are failing to take into consideration the needs of the group (even though it would be very easy to do so) and have completely ignored information that their choice of dates makes it impossible for some of the group to participate (OK, if you want to mince words, it doesn't make it impossible - but it makes them have to choose between the party or honoring their religion)
I'd be curious to see how that would hold up in court.
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| Posted 7/24/13 10:31 PM |
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Kitten1929
LIF Adult
Member since 1/13 6040 total posts
Name:
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Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
I can't believe this is still going on. Really, it's obvious some opinions won't change. No amount of Internet bickering is going to change it. Why can't this stop already? At this point it is what it is, the OP has voiced her concerns and its shittty that they're going ahead with it but what more do you want? Beating people up over the Internet isn't solving anything.
Nothing is productive about where this dialogue has headed. Nothing s being accomplished except to snow that some people just have to have the last word.
Message edited 7/24/2013 10:38:38 PM.
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| Posted 7/24/13 10:33 PM |
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chilltocam
LIF Adult
Member since 11/11 9141 total posts
Name:
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by chilltocam
Those are not neighborhood events - where taking into consideration (and CONSIDERATION is the operative word here) the needs of every possible participant is not feasible. Here, you are talking about a small group of people, planning an event for that group - yet they are failing to take into consideration the needs of the group (even though it would be very easy to do so) and have completely ignored information that their choice of dates makes it impossible for some of the group to participate (OK, if you want to mince words, it doesn't make it impossible - but it makes them have to choose between the party or honoring their religion)
I'd be curious to see how that would hold up in court.
I'm not talking about court - I'm talking about being kind and considerate to other human beings. What used to be called common decency but apparently isn't so common anymore
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| Posted 7/24/13 10:51 PM |
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2BadSoSad
LIF Adult
Member since 8/12 6791 total posts
Name:
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Posted by chilltocam
Posted by brownie
Posted by seaside
Posted by ElizaRags35
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by seaside
I told a friend about this thread today, and I mentioned that I was asked "wtf is wrong with you" for saying that excluding a whole group like that is discrimination, whether or not it's intentional.
She asked me what kind of online community tolerated that and functioned like that.
I told her I've been surprised by things I've seen on here before, but that kind of grossness wasn't nearly the most appalling, ignorant, or ugly thing I saw on this thread.
I hardly view this situation as discriminatory. The poster was not told she couldn't participate in the block party because she was Jewish.
It could be viewed as discriminatory if they hold the block party on Yom Kippur annually.
Tolerance and respect of one's religion/beliefs is one thing, but explain to me why a multi-religious community must observe a specific religion's holiday as well?
Courtesy.
Respect.
It's the neighborly thing to do.
This, plus it is discrimination--simply because it categorically excludes all members of a religion. Again--it may be unintentional discrimination, borne of ignorance--but it is discrimination. When you make a rule or a screen that operates to categorically block out a race, religion, sex, etc., you are categorically excluding people because of their status.
Do they owe you a legal duty? No--but it's discrimination, just like if a condo board in an apartment held their annual party on Easter Sunday, when Christians go to church. It may be intended or not (I have no idea)--but it operates to exclude people based upon the group they belong to. Here, it's a minority group that (clearly) many on LI are biased against to begin with.
ETA: that "clearly" was inspired by some of what I saw here today, but not by anyone quoted here.
Except that this is not ANNUAL...then I would agree. This sounds like it was a one time conflict
It can still be discrimination - even if it only happens once. Maybe unintentional, but still discriminatory. There does not have to be a pattern of behavior for it to be discrimination. When it comes to excluding someone due to a religious reason, and what other have said and I agree is even worse - ignoring the person who brings it to your attention - it does come across as discrimination.
BUT, they didn't exclude her for religious reasons, they excluded her bc the majority rules date won out. No one said, oh, she's Jewish, lets have it on Yom Kippur so she can't go. I am pretty sure the decision making went "well, we have two dates, the majority wants date A and the minority, Date B. Date A wins. She wasn't excluded by the planners BECAUSE of her religion which would be discrimination. She excluded herself (and for a very valid reason) bc the date that worked for the MAJORITY doesn't work for her. I really don't think there was ill intent.
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| Posted 7/24/13 11:18 PM |
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Jacksmommy
My love muffin!
Member since 1/07 5819 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Posted by LIMomma
If they only have 19 homes then the application should not be approved
They need 10% of homes to oppose it. Just because they didn't participate, doesn't mean that they oppose. For example, if this was on Sept. 7, I wouldn't have been able to go, because it would have been my son's bday party, however I would have signed in favor. Currently I, and 2 other neighbors are all signing opposed. They need 2 other people to oppose it and then they will not be able to have it.
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| Posted 7/24/13 11:20 PM |
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itsbabytime
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 9644 total posts
Name:
Me
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Wow - I am really shocked that a community would plan a block party on Yom Kippur. I absolutely think it is the wrong thing to do. I am not Jewish but, I know enough about this holiday to know that this shouldn't be an issue you have to deal with. As a Catholic, if they were to plan a block party on Good Friday I would be really pissed. Even when I was planning my fall wedding I took into account Yom Kippur even though I only had 1 or 2 Jewish guests. I think it is a matter of respect for your neighbors belief system and, on a holiday such as this one - throwing a big shin dig down the street is just disrespectful IMO. 
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| Posted 7/24/13 11:27 PM |
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AScottWolf
I <3 our squish!
Member since 11/10 2237 total posts
Name:
Adriana
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Posted by Goobster
Posted by brownie
Posted by Chatham-Chick
Posted by seaside
I told a friend about this thread today, and I mentioned that I was asked "wtf is wrong with you" for saying that excluding a whole group like that is discrimination, whether or not it's intentional.
She asked me what kind of online community tolerated that and functioned like that.
I told her I've been surprised by things I've seen on here before, but that kind of grossness wasn't nearly the most appalling, ignorant, or ugly thing I saw on this thread.
I hardly view this situation as discriminatory. The poster was not told she couldn't participate in the block party because she was Jewish.
It could be viewed as discriminatory if they hold the block party on Yom Kippur annually.
Tolerance and respect of one's religion/beliefs is one thing, but explain to me why a multi-religious community must observe a specific religion's holiday as well?
I have to agree with this, I never imagined this question would start arguments because it didn't seem offensive/discriminatory or anything of the like to me...the only part I saw fault with was not replying to the OP's email.
I agree too. I just can't see how this is discriminatory. The date wasn't picked B/C the family could NOT participate. The date was picked b/c it worked best for most. I don't see a difference if the reason the OP can't participate is for religious observance or for another function. If you cannot participate, you cannot participate and the date is chosen based on what worked best for most. I just think it's unfair to expect the day for a block party to be picked based on one family's needs when there are many families to factor in. Religious commitments or whatever you have.
This. IMO, discrimination has to have some type of intent.
I don't understand why everyone is assuming the worst or why we're comparing religions to prove a point.
This whole thread is all about assuming; assuming ALL people who are Jewish will be celebrating this holiday, assuming ALL non-Jewish individuals can't empathize with the struggles that their their ancestors have gone through, assuming that the block party organizers INTENTIONALLY planned it this way and assuming people know how other religions function.
Why can't it be as simple and innocent as majority rules? (either for or against).
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| Posted 7/24/13 11:30 PM |
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2BadSoSad
LIF Adult
Member since 8/12 6791 total posts
Name:
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Also, lets say I lived in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood and they sent out two dates, one of which was Good Friday, which IMO, is one of our more solemn holidays bc yes, Xmas while upbeat and celebratory bc we are celebrating a BIRTH, Good Friday, is not.
If they didn't understand how solemn Good Friday was just bc THEY DIDNT UNDERSTAND, I would NOT begrudge them for picking that date if majority rules bc even though they KNEW it was a Catholic Holy Day, they didn't know its significance.
My point is, while the neighbors ON PAPER may know it is a Jewish Holiday, they may not understand the significance of it. I for one, have no IDEA what Yom Kippur is about.... I don't .
I don't think it is discrimination, I think its more just unintentional ignorance. Which is what I would assume if I lived in a predominantly Jewish neighborhood and they chose Good Friday fro an event.
I think bc ALL religions understand and have a basic concept of our bigger and more commercialized holidays (XMas, Hannukah, etc) that as Chrisitans, they might have just assumed that Yom Kippur is a day to the Jewish population like our "less popular" holy day Ash Wednesday is to Catholics, KWIM?
I think they just don't understand, not that they understand the solemn significance and did it anyway.
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| Posted 7/24/13 11:44 PM |
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MC09
arrrghhh!!!!
Member since 2/09 5674 total posts
Name:
Me speaks pirate!
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Wow this thread has gotten real nasty on both sides of the argument. No religion is better than any other. Everyone deserves the same level of respect, regardless of race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, etc. I think it's just as disgusting to suggest that Christian/Catholic holidays are all about candy and games, blasting gangster rap in a church (which doesn't even make sense in this analogy as I don't think the block party is actually taking place in a temple or other house of worship??... although, I did see your apology and I thank you for it), and someone else who said you can't compare Lent or Good Friday to Yom Kippur, or whatever other garbage has been spewed on this thread as it is to tell the OP that she shouldn't care, she shouldn't expect accommodations, she would be the nasty neighbor for not signing and being a party pooper, etc. I think people need to exercise a bit more tolerance, understanding, and respect on all sides.
OP, I'm sorry you have to be put in this situation. I think it's wrong that they would even suggest having the party on such a solemn and religious holiday. The date should never have even been on the table as an option, regardless if it was only one family or more that were negatively impacted by it. It's still excluding that one family. I feel bad for OP's children who won't be able to attend the festivities with the other children and don't understand why and will feel like they're being punished and left out. Ignoring her email is just wrong and compounds the problem and the insensitivity. They should address her email at the very least. Having a block party on that date puts burden on her family and her guests and how are they supposed to observe their solemn holiday with all the background noise carrying on? It's just rude.
And, ftr, I'm Catholic and admittedly don't know much about the holiday, but I do know it's disrespectful and in poor taste to exclude anyone. It is discrimination in its simplest form, regardless of whether or not it was intentional (and I hope it's not)... No, it's not the same as a family having prior arrangements to go on vacation, birthday party, christening, bar mitzvah, or whatever else, because you can't foresee these types of events and can't possibly accommodate every family's events... but, at the very least you can be respectful and not have a loud block party going on while people are trying to observe a SOLEMN HOLY DAY. It's not the same as saying "i wouldn't care if they held the party on Christmas" because we all know that would never happen in the US. And just because YOU wouldn't care if the party was held on Christmas doesn't mean ANOTHER family on the block wouldn't... It is about RESPECT!
Though I'm personally not a fan of block parties and find them annoying, inconveniencing, and more work than they're actually worth, they're supposed to be about bringing the neighborhood together... This is not the way to accomplish that. I'm infuriated for you! I think it's disgusting! If you were my neighbor and you brought all this to my attention, and they ignored your requests, I would probably not sign either as a sign of solidarity. And, I would tell the association exactly why. Pick another date a--holes!
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| Posted 7/25/13 12:18 AM |
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genericalias
LIF Infant
Member since 8/11 249 total posts
Name:
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
oops my question was asked
Message edited 7/25/2013 12:58:54 AM.
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| Posted 7/25/13 12:55 AM |
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gina409
TWINS!
Member since 12/09 27635 total posts
Name:
g
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
this better be one frigging good block party after all this
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| Posted 7/25/13 1:09 AM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
Posted by gina409
this better be one frigging good block party after all this
I'm rooting for a huge rainstorm.
,
I hope you can separate your neighbors lack of acknowledgement from the comments on this thread. I'm sure their intent was to cause this amount of angst in anyone's life. The organizers were completely thoughtless..
I could easily see the other families signing the petition if they didn't know it affected others in the block.
Message edited 7/25/2013 9:51:35 AM.
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| Posted 7/25/13 5:53 AM |
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LIMomma
LIF Adolescent
Member since 6/12 523 total posts
Name:
Momma
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Would I be a really nasty neighbor?
WOW in TOH you need a signature from everyone on the block, majority approved and approval from fire and police. 10 % ? So if you have 20 people on your block and two neighbors want to have a block party they can shut down the street? That just seems crazy to me... No wonder they weren't concerned with responding to you. :(
Message edited 7/25/2013 7:37:29 AM.
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| Posted 7/25/13 7:36 AM |
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