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brownie
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by Ophelia
It may not be the case HERE, but it IS true for certain cases, and as long as sloppiness and egos can interfere with real justice, the death penalty will never be foolproof.
Totally get that...and I'm definitely talking about in case like this where its fool proof. I'll say that in a case like this where its 100%, I have NO qualms about a public execution. The way the system is setup now that its obviously not 100% foolproof sucks, but probably is realistic...there will always be human error.
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Posted 6/23/11 11:31 AM  |
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brownie
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by Goldi0218
Im tired of people using the influence of drugs and/or alcohol as an excuse for behaviors. Enough already. Bring the man to justice. Sucking my last tax dollar so he can eat, sleep and "get treatment" while I wonder how I am going to afford to send my kids to college while he rots is NOT justice. Yeah, I said it.
ITA.
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| Posted 6/23/11 11:32 AM |
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Ophelia
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
but killing an innocent people is a crime no matter what. whether by a drug crazed psychopath or the Texas State Penitentiary's OOPSIE.
we cannot as a society condone one and condemn the other.
I "get" that people are saying "for this case only" but unfortunately there is no way to secure that. he would have access to the same exact appeals and safeguards that any other death row inmate would. whether he deserved it not.
I am all for public executions. old school. in the town square. so people can watch the and see what can happen to them. there are still murderers in Texas so clearly, it's efficacy as a deterent is questionable to say the least.
I am actually trying to find the article by Russell Baker that I wrote a paper on regarding this specific topic...if I do I will post it. it was pretty interesting.
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| Posted 6/23/11 11:38 AM |
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brownie
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by Ophelia
we cannot as a society condone one and condemn the other.
I "get" that people are saying "for this case only" but unfortunately there is no way to secure that. he would have access to the same exact appeals and safeguards that any other death row inmate would. whether he deserved it not.
I want that part of the law to change...but if it doesn't, I could live with that system.
I know these are just my opinions and there will be differing opinions. I can understand the arguments against, I just don't feel the same way.
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| Posted 6/23/11 11:41 AM |
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AScottWolf
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by joenick
Sometimes, the death penalty is too easy of a punishment.
Lethal injection...dead...where's the retribution?
I say to hardened criminals, let 'em rot...forever.
Let them fester for the rest of their lives. Let them REALLY pay for their crimes.
Death sometimes is the easy way out.
This This This!
And really? To say that no one is born an addict? Seriously?! What about all the babies born to mothers who were on crack or high or whatever. Those babies are addicted and do go through withdrawal and do have a higher chance of being a drug addict then the "average person". Is taking drugs a choice.. yes. Is being an addict a choice? Not to an extent. It's a diagnosable disease and I do 100% believe in rehabilitation (which is why I'm a forensic mental health counselor).
Do I think it gives rational for this guys behavior? Absolutely not. The only defense that I can see his attorney's giving is him being in a psychotic state due to being under the influence. Even if they find him guilty he'll still go to reg. jail (not Kerby or Manhattan Psych). And just because someone goes through therapy for rehabilitation doesn't mean that all of their charges just get dropped.
Message edited 6/23/2011 11:50:33 AM.
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| Posted 6/23/11 11:49 AM |
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brownie
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by AScottWolf
Is taking drugs a choice.. yes. Is being an addict a choice? Not to an extent. It's a diagnosable disease and I do 100% believe in rehabilitation (which is why I'm a forensic mental health counselor).
It depends on how you define disease...most diseases can't be stopped by pure will.
I would have guessed that I have more sympathy for addicts b/c I have family members that are and that have passed on b/c of their additions. JMO though that while addiction is so strong, human will is stronger. There are millions of addicts out there that don't go and kill others.
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| Posted 6/23/11 11:54 AM |
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KittyGags
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
I wish he would be awarded the same fate as his victims. A bullet in the back of the head.
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| Posted 6/23/11 11:58 AM |
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gporka23
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by brownie
Posted by joenick
Sometimes, the death penalty is too easy of a punishment.
Lethal injection...dead...where's the retribution?
I say to hardened criminals, let 'em rot...forever.
Let them fester for the rest of their lives. Let them REALLY pay for their crimes.
Death sometimes is the easy way out.
They don't rot in jails though, they get a bed, health care, meals, etc
Yeah lethal injection costs more, so lets get rid of it and bring back public hangings. Cheap and more effective.
I used to agree to let them rot
however my DH works in a maximum security prison and he tells me about the conditions there and he says they have more rights then we do! And they have it "good" if you think about the crimes some of these people committed. That just makes me mad.
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| Posted 6/23/11 12:00 PM |
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brownie
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by gporka23
Posted by brownie
Posted by joenick
Sometimes, the death penalty is too easy of a punishment.
Lethal injection...dead...where's the retribution?
I say to hardened criminals, let 'em rot...forever.
Let them fester for the rest of their lives. Let them REALLY pay for their crimes.
Death sometimes is the easy way out.
They don't rot in jails though, they get a bed, health care, meals, etc
Yeah lethal injection costs more, so lets get rid of it and bring back public hangings. Cheap and more effective.
I used to agree to let them rot
however my DH works in a maximum security prison and he tells me about the conditions there and he says they have more rights then we do! And they have it "good" if you think about the crimes some of these people committed. That just makes me mad.
Exactly. There are law abiding citizens don't have places to sleep at night, are not protected from harm, don't have food, don't have health care, and we pay for these criminals to be comfortable.
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| Posted 6/23/11 12:04 PM |
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annoyedTTCer
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by KittyGags
I wish he would be awarded the same fate as his victims. A bullet in the back of the head.
Yep.
Let the family members do it if they want to
We put down dogs that bite people but for some reason its wrong to kill those who kill - ***
We allow women to abort children they don't want but this guy gets 3 meals and a cot for the rest of his life, again ***
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| Posted 6/23/11 12:05 PM |
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Ophelia
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remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
people, we are supposed to be REHABILITATING those that commit crimes and re-introducing them to society.
the rate of recidivism is already high...imagine what it would be like if we were treating these people like the animals it seems you think they should be treating as.
we are schitzophrenic as a society about what we want/expect out of our criminal justice system...and what justice is.
do we want rehabilitiation or vengeance? do we want them to see the error of their ways and rejoin society or do we simply want them to suffer?
you can't have it both ways.
we can chain everyone up in a dungeon and throw them scraps every so often like we used to and let them die there....or we can be more "enlightened".
I am not sure what side of the fence I am on. in my heart, vengeance...but not sure how that can be meted across the board. or what purpose it serves at the end of the day.
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| Posted 6/23/11 12:11 PM |
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jerseypanda
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by brownie
Posted by jerseypanda
Posted by brownie
They don't rot in jails though, they get a bed, health care, meals, etc
That's true... but you are still spending the rest of your life in jail. Behind bars. Forever. I wouldn't say that's a great way to spend every single second of every single day until the day you die.
No, but you still get to live. You still get to eat. You still get to sleep in a bed. You're still protected by the law. You're still able to be in touch with your family. You still get health care. AND you don't have to work for any of this, in fact people are paying your way. And this is your punishment? Why?
Are you asking me why I choose life in jail over the death penalty? I think I have already explained that in previous posts.
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| Posted 6/23/11 12:17 PM |
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brownie
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by jerseypanda
Are you asking me why I choose life in jail over the death penalty? I think I have already explained that in previous posts.
Not you specifically...more rhetorical 
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| Posted 6/23/11 12:20 PM |
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annoyedTTCer
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by Ophelia
people, we are supposed to be REHABILITATING those that commit crimes and re-introducing them to society.
the rate of recidivism is already high...imagine what it would be like if we were treating these people like the animals it seems you think they should be treating as.
we are schitzophrenic as a society about what we want/expect out of our criminal justice system...and what justice is.
do we want rehabilitiation or vengeance? do we want them to see the error of their ways and rejoin society or do we simply want them to suffer?
you can't have it both ways.
we can chain everyone up in a dungeon and throw them scraps every so often like we used to and let them die there....or we can be more "enlightened".
I am not sure what side of the fence I am on. in my heart, vengeance...but not sure how that can be meted across the board. or what purpose it serves at the end of the day.
Do you or anyone else really believe in rehabilitiation for violent criminals?
The VAST majority end up back in jail for equally violent crimes as the ones that first landed them in the system.
Efforts to rehabilitate are a waste of time and money.
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| Posted 6/23/11 12:23 PM |
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brownie
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Efforts to rehabilitate are a waste of time and money.
Agreed.
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| Posted 6/23/11 12:24 PM |
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jerseypanda
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by brownie
Posted by jerseypanda
Are you asking me why I choose life in jail over the death penalty? I think I have already explained that in previous posts.
Not you specifically...more rhetorical
Fair enough!
And to comment on what you said before, yes, you still get to eat... food that is given to you where you will never again get to choose your own meal. Yes, you get to sleep... on a cot in a cell that is barely big enough for you to mover around in. And yes, you still get to have contact with your family... and spend the rest of your life being able to see how much hurt, pain and disappointment you have caused them.
And HOPEFULLY, you will get your a$s kicked and violated several hundred times while you are there too by all the other animals that are there with you.
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| Posted 6/23/11 12:24 PM |
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brownie
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by jerseypanda
Fair enough!
And to comment on what you said before, yes, you still get to eat... food that is given to you where you will never again get to choose your own meal. Yes, you get to sleep... on a cot in a cell that is barely big enough for you to mover around in. And yes, you still get to have contact with your family... and spend the rest of your life being able to see how much hurt, pain and disappointment you have caused them.
Still better than rotting in the ground. I'm gonna guess that there are at least some on death row that don't have any remorse and don't care about the disappointment that they've caused.
It's nice that we can have a civilized debate with  
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| Posted 6/23/11 12:29 PM |
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jerseypanda
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Amanda
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by brownie
Posted by jerseypanda
Fair enough!
And to comment on what you said before, yes, you still get to eat... food that is given to you where you will never again get to choose your own meal. Yes, you get to sleep... on a cot in a cell that is barely big enough for you to mover around in. And yes, you still get to have contact with your family... and spend the rest of your life being able to see how much hurt, pain and disappointment you have caused them.
Still better than rotting in the ground. I'm gonna guess that there are at least some on death row that don't have any remorse and don't care about the disappointment that they've caused.
It's nice that we can have a civilized debate with
Oh Brownie... the only kind of debates I enjoy are civilized ones! 
See, now I think it is a matter of opinion as to what is better... being in jail for life or rotting in the ground. At least in jail you have to sit and wonder when it is all going to end. You never know how long or short your "life" sentence will be. If you're dead and in the ground, you're not worrying about anything.
ETA: The only thing I can hope for in this case is that once this ba$tard starts to detox and come out of his drug induced stupor... that he will realize what he has done. Not saying that he will, but I hope he does.
Message edited 6/23/2011 12:39:16 PM.
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| Posted 6/23/11 12:37 PM |
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JennyPenny
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Jen
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by jerseypanda
and will wish a slow, painful existence in jail for the people like this maggot who killed at the pharmacy.
My only issue with this is that it's not a painful existence. Inmates get to watch television, play cards, work out, read books, etc.
He deserves the death penalty.
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| Posted 6/23/11 12:43 PM |
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jerseypanda
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by JennyPenny
Posted by jerseypanda
and will wish a slow, painful existence in jail for the people like this maggot who killed at the pharmacy.
My only issue with this is that it's not a painful existence. Inmates get to watch television, play cards, work out, read books, etc.
He deserves the death penalty.
I think everyone's definition of "painful existence" is different.
For me, spending my life in jail would be horrific. Not being able to be with my family, not being able to ever go to the beach again, do what I want, when I want. So I guess to your point, life in jail for some people is an OK deal. To me, for others, it is a terrible thing.
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| Posted 6/23/11 12:48 PM |
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JennyPenny
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Member since 1/08 12702 total posts
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Jen
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by jerseypanda
Posted by JennyPenny
Posted by jerseypanda
and will wish a slow, painful existence in jail for the people like this maggot who killed at the pharmacy.
My only issue with this is that it's not a painful existence. Inmates get to watch television, play cards, work out, read books, etc.
He deserves the death penalty.
I think everyone's definition of "painful existence" is different.
For me, spending my life in jail would be horrific. Not being able to be with my family, not being able to ever go to the beach again, do what I want, when I want. So I guess to your point, life in jail for some people is an OK deal. To me, for others, it is a terrible thing.
It would be horrible for me, as well. But I think compared to sitting in a cell awaiting certain execution, it's a walk in the park.
If only there were such a thing as life in solitary confinement.
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| Posted 6/23/11 1:04 PM |
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jerseypanda
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by JennyPenny
If only there were such a thing as life in solitary confinement.
Now THAT is something I think I could support more than the death penalty!
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| Posted 6/23/11 1:10 PM |
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joenick
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
I don't really know the conditions in a maximum security prison, but I'd like the following to be true:
* SOLITARY confinement
* Only out out of cell to shower twice weekly, back in cell
* no communication with anyone...except in said shower where inmate is bent over, azz up
* Left in solitary, alone, in the dark, with only your thoughts and guilt to keep you busy 'till the end of time.
Again I'll say, death= easy way out.
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| Posted 6/23/11 1:12 PM |
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joenick
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by jerseypanda
Posted by JennyPenny
If only there were such a thing as life in solitary confinement.
Now THAT is something I think I could support more than the death penalty!
I JUST wrote the same thing.
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| Posted 6/23/11 1:13 PM |
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jerseypanda
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Amanda
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by joenick
I don't really know the conditions in a maximum security prison, but I'd like the following to be true:
* SOLITARY confinement
* Only out out of cell to shower twice weekly, back in cell
* no communication with anyone...except in said shower where inmate is bent over, azz up
* Left in solitary, alone, in the dark, with only your thoughts and guilt to keep you busy 'till the end of time.
Again I'll say, death= easy way out.
Can we add some REALLY hard manual labor to that as well? Like having to lift up extremely heavy boulders and move them from one end of the room to another... ALL... DAY... LONG? And then the next day he has to move them all back to the other side.
ETA: Or maybe having him sit in a room with a sandbox filled with rice and he has to count the number of pieces of rice there are. That would make me crazy!
Message edited 6/23/2011 1:26:20 PM.
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| Posted 6/23/11 1:15 PM |
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