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Goldi0218
My miracles!
Member since 12/05 23902 total posts
Name:
Leslie
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
If there was definitive proof that someone killed my child, husband or fiance or parent, I'd want them dead and I'd make no apologies for that.
If this is able to be proven without a doubt, I'd never invalidate the feelings of those family members if they wanted this guy dead or not.
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Posted 6/23/11 1:28 PM  |
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gporka23
:)
Member since 11/08 3783 total posts
Name:
:)
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by brownie
Posted by gporka23
Posted by brownie
Posted by joenick
Sometimes, the death penalty is too easy of a punishment.
Lethal injection...dead...where's the retribution?
I say to hardened criminals, let 'em rot...forever.
Let them fester for the rest of their lives. Let them REALLY pay for their crimes.
Death sometimes is the easy way out.
They don't rot in jails though, they get a bed, health care, meals, etc
Yeah lethal injection costs more, so lets get rid of it and bring back public hangings. Cheap and more effective.
I used to agree to let them rot
however my DH works in a maximum security prison and he tells me about the conditions there and he says they have more rights then we do! And they have it "good" if you think about the crimes some of these people committed. That just makes me mad.
Exactly. There are law abiding citizens don't have places to sleep at night, are not protected from harm, don't have food, don't have health care, and we pay for these criminals to be comfortable.
I just asked my DH about this and he said that the prison upstate is much much worse (most likely where this guy would end up).
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| Posted 6/23/11 1:30 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Leslie, I agree with you.
I am stunned at the father of the young girl who called for prayer, not vengeance.
I would have wanted to eat that man's heart if he killed my son. my beautiful boy. HELL. NO.
hearts for breakfast. without any remorse whatsoever.
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| Posted 6/23/11 1:34 PM |
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AScottWolf
I <3 our squish!
Member since 11/10 2237 total posts
Name:
Adriana
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by Ophelia
people, we are supposed to be REHABILITATING those that commit crimes and re-introducing them to society.
the rate of recidivism is already high...imagine what it would be like if we were treating these people like the animals it seems you think they should be treating as.
we are schitzophrenic as a society about what we want/expect out of our criminal justice system...and what justice is.
do we want rehabilitiation or vengeance? do we want them to see the error of their ways and rejoin society or do we simply want them to suffer?
you can't have it both ways.
we can chain everyone up in a dungeon and throw them scraps every so often like we used to and let them die there....or we can be more "enlightened".
I am not sure what side of the fence I am on. in my heart, vengeance...but not sure how that can be meted across the board. or what purpose it serves at the end of the day.
Do you or anyone else really believe in rehabilitiation for violent criminals?
The VAST majority end up back in jail for equally violent crimes as the ones that first landed them in the system.
Efforts to rehabilitate are a waste of time and money.
Research has actually shown that with specific populations, recidivism rates actually decrease after intensive rehabilitation.
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| Posted 6/23/11 1:47 PM |
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Goldi0218
My miracles!
Member since 12/05 23902 total posts
Name:
Leslie
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by AScottWolf
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by Ophelia
people, we are supposed to be REHABILITATING those that commit crimes and re-introducing them to society.
the rate of recidivism is already high...imagine what it would be like if we were treating these people like the animals it seems you think they should be treating as.
we are schitzophrenic as a society about what we want/expect out of our criminal justice system...and what justice is.
do we want rehabilitiation or vengeance? do we want them to see the error of their ways and rejoin society or do we simply want them to suffer?
you can't have it both ways.
we can chain everyone up in a dungeon and throw them scraps every so often like we used to and let them die there....or we can be more "enlightened".
I am not sure what side of the fence I am on. in my heart, vengeance...but not sure how that can be meted across the board. or what purpose it serves at the end of the day.
Do you or anyone else really believe in rehabilitiation for violent criminals?
The VAST majority end up back in jail for equally violent crimes as the ones that first landed them in the system.
Efforts to rehabilitate are a waste of time and money.
Research has actually shown that with specific populations, recidivism rates actually decrease after intensive rehabilitation.
Which population are you speaking of and how long and intense is this rehabilitation? Just curious.
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| Posted 6/23/11 2:21 PM |
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AScottWolf
I <3 our squish!
Member since 11/10 2237 total posts
Name:
Adriana
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by Goldi0218
Posted by AScottWolf
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by Ophelia
people, we are supposed to be REHABILITATING those that commit crimes and re-introducing them to society.
the rate of recidivism is already high...imagine what it would be like if we were treating these people like the animals it seems you think they should be treating as.
we are schitzophrenic as a society about what we want/expect out of our criminal justice system...and what justice is.
do we want rehabilitiation or vengeance? do we want them to see the error of their ways and rejoin society or do we simply want them to suffer?
you can't have it both ways.
we can chain everyone up in a dungeon and throw them scraps every so often like we used to and let them die there....or we can be more "enlightened".
I am not sure what side of the fence I am on. in my heart, vengeance...but not sure how that can be meted across the board. or what purpose it serves at the end of the day.
Do you or anyone else really believe in rehabilitiation for violent criminals?
The VAST majority end up back in jail for equally violent crimes as the ones that first landed them in the system.
Efforts to rehabilitate are a waste of time and money.
Research has actually shown that with specific populations, recidivism rates actually decrease after intensive rehabilitation.
Which population are you speaking of and how long and intense is this rehabilitation? Just curious.
I know the majority of research is on sex offender rehabilitation and juvenile offenders (who I work with). Intensive could vary from daily to 1x a week and really depends on the program and availability of the person.
People who have severe mental disorders (schizophrenia, biopolar and certain personality disorders) are less successful being rehabilitated b/c the underlying condition is permanent and hard to treat on it's own.
Do I think rehabilitation would work with this specific person. Eh.
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| Posted 6/23/11 2:44 PM |
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annoyedTTCer
LIF Adult
Member since 4/09 3272 total posts
Name:
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
I can see juveniles that commit non-violet crimes - maybe they get scared straight
But sex offenders? no way
I'd love to know what % of violent criminals released on parole end up back in the slammer for repeat violent crimes.
Thrown in violating parole and I bet we get a big number.
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| Posted 6/23/11 2:49 PM |
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Goldi0218
My miracles!
Member since 12/05 23902 total posts
Name:
Leslie
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by AScottWolf
Posted by Goldi0218
Posted by AScottWolf
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by Ophelia
people, we are supposed to be REHABILITATING those that commit crimes and re-introducing them to society.
the rate of recidivism is already high...imagine what it would be like if we were treating these people like the animals it seems you think they should be treating as.
we are schitzophrenic as a society about what we want/expect out of our criminal justice system...and what justice is.
do we want rehabilitiation or vengeance? do we want them to see the error of their ways and rejoin society or do we simply want them to suffer?
you can't have it both ways.
we can chain everyone up in a dungeon and throw them scraps every so often like we used to and let them die there....or we can be more "enlightened".
I am not sure what side of the fence I am on. in my heart, vengeance...but not sure how that can be meted across the board. or what purpose it serves at the end of the day.
Do you or anyone else really believe in rehabilitiation for violent criminals?
The VAST majority end up back in jail for equally violent crimes as the ones that first landed them in the system.
Efforts to rehabilitate are a waste of time and money.
Research has actually shown that with specific populations, recidivism rates actually decrease after intensive rehabilitation.
Which population are you speaking of and how long and intense is this rehabilitation? Just curious.
I know the majority of research is on sex offender rehabilitation and juvenile offenders (who I work with). Intensive could vary from daily to 1x a week and really depends on the program and availability of the person.
People who have severe mental disorders (schizophrenia, biopolar and certain personality disorders) are less successful being rehabilitated b/c the underlying condition is permanent and hard to treat on it's own.
Do I think rehabilitation would work with this specific person. Eh.
Is that once a week for a year? 2 years? Any more than that, and quite frankly, I'd be pizzed as all hell that my money is going to support this. Im sorry, it can and does boil down to dollars and cents for me in some respects.
I have worked with sociopaths and other children/people with varying degrees of mental illness/emotional disturbance and - they don't get better. They start with small animals, go on to bigger animals and then people. I have seen children under the age of 12 being cuffed and taken to psych hospitals. I had one student who literally kicked me in the face without a shred of emotion (angry or happy) at 8 years old. I hope to G-d I remember his face so when I am on a Subway platform 10 years from now, I know to run the other way.
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| Posted 6/23/11 2:52 PM |
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AScottWolf
I <3 our squish!
Member since 11/10 2237 total posts
Name:
Adriana
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by Goldi0218
Posted by AScottWolf
Posted by Goldi0218
Posted by AScottWolf
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by Ophelia
people, we are supposed to be REHABILITATING those that commit crimes and re-introducing them to society.
the rate of recidivism is already high...imagine what it would be like if we were treating these people like the animals it seems you think they should be treating as.
we are schitzophrenic as a society about what we want/expect out of our criminal justice system...and what justice is.
do we want rehabilitiation or vengeance? do we want them to see the error of their ways and rejoin society or do we simply want them to suffer?
you can't have it both ways.
we can chain everyone up in a dungeon and throw them scraps every so often like we used to and let them die there....or we can be more "enlightened".
I am not sure what side of the fence I am on. in my heart, vengeance...but not sure how that can be meted across the board. or what purpose it serves at the end of the day.
Do you or anyone else really believe in rehabilitiation for violent criminals?
The VAST majority end up back in jail for equally violent crimes as the ones that first landed them in the system.
Efforts to rehabilitate are a waste of time and money.
Research has actually shown that with specific populations, recidivism rates actually decrease after intensive rehabilitation.
Which population are you speaking of and how long and intense is this rehabilitation? Just curious.
I know the majority of research is on sex offender rehabilitation and juvenile offenders (who I work with). Intensive could vary from daily to 1x a week and really depends on the program and availability of the person.
People who have severe mental disorders (schizophrenia, biopolar and certain personality disorders) are less successful being rehabilitated b/c the underlying condition is permanent and hard to treat on it's own.
Do I think rehabilitation would work with this specific person. Eh.
Is that once a week for a year? 2 years? Any more than that, and quite frankly, I'd be pizzed as all hell that my money is going to support this. Im sorry, it can and does boil down to dollars and cents for me in some respects.
I have worked with sociopaths and other children/people with varying degrees of mental illness/emotional disturbance and - they don't get better. They start with small animals, go on to bigger animals and then people. I have seen children under the age of 12 being cuffed and taken to psych hospitals. I had one student who literally kicked me in the face without a shred of emotion (angry or happy) at 8 years old. I hope to G-d I remember his face so when I am on a Subway platform 10 years from now, I know to run the other way.
Well, $ wise, the way they rationalize it is treatment only costs a fraction of what it would cost to arrest someone, put them through trial, and then keep them in prison for x amount of time.
Yeah, whenever I hear of a child severly harming an animal on purpose I get very worried b/c it's almost like looking into a crystal ball and seeing the future. Def. scary.
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| Posted 6/23/11 2:57 PM |
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pickles16
Real Estate Professional
Member since 11/07 17227 total posts
Name:
Jen
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
I agree with Leslie...if there was proof beyond a shadow of a doubt there is no doubt in my mind that I'd want him dead!
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| Posted 6/23/11 3:04 PM |
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Viviane1108
LIF Adolescent
Member since 6/09 509 total posts
Name:
Anita
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
I had a family member murdered in cold blood (one shot to the head) and then raped after she was dead...
As a catholic I did not believe in death penalty until that day......growing up in a catholic church controlled country I was always told to give people a second chance...
As a close family member I was able to watch the murderer die (case was in FL) and to tell you the truth...the second I saw the leathal injection enter his vein I felt justice was done......not for a second did I feel bad that a human being was dying...
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| Posted 6/23/11 3:16 PM |
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brownie
Baby #1 is here!
Member since 11/08 13903 total posts
Name:
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by Viviane1108
I had a family member murdered in cold blood (one shot to the head) and then raped after she was dead...
As a catholic I did not believe in death penalty until that day......growing up in a catholic church controlled country I was always told to give people a second chance...
As a close family member I was able to watch the murderer die (case was in FL) and to tell you the truth...the second I saw the leathal injection enter his vein I felt justice was done......not for a second did I feel bad that a human being was dying...
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| Posted 6/23/11 3:18 PM |
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Goldi0218
My miracles!
Member since 12/05 23902 total posts
Name:
Leslie
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by Viviane1108
I had a family member murdered in cold blood (one shot to the head) and then raped after she was dead...
As a catholic I did not believe in death penalty until that day......growing up in a catholic church controlled country I was always told to give people a second chance...
As a close family member I was able to watch the murderer die (case was in FL) and to tell you the truth...the second I saw the leathal injection enter his vein I felt justice was done......not for a second did I feel bad that a human being was dying...
I am so sorry.
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| Posted 6/23/11 3:18 PM |
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2boys1girl
and one more girl on the way!
Member since 5/10 2954 total posts
Name:
D
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by Viviane1108
I had a family member murdered in cold blood (one shot to the head) and then raped after she was dead...
As a catholic I did not believe in death penalty until that day......growing up in a catholic church controlled country I was always told to give people a second chance...
As a close family member I was able to watch the murderer die (case was in FL) and to tell you the truth...the second I saw the leathal injection enter his vein I felt justice was done......not for a second did I feel bad that a human being was dying...
I'm sorry that you had to go through that, I'm glad you were able to feel some small ounce of justice in it....Nobody ever knows until they walk a mile in their shoes.
Thanks for sharing
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| Posted 6/23/11 3:46 PM |
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Viviane1108
LIF Adolescent
Member since 6/09 509 total posts
Name:
Anita
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Thank you ladies!!
It has been a while now and we are at peace but every time a senseless murder happens, it brings back memories..
I'm sorry that you had to go through that, I'm glad you were able to feel some small ounce of justice in it....Nobody ever knows until they walk a mile in their shoes. Thanks for sharing
This was my point exactly...to show that you don't know how you really feel until you are faced with the situation involving YOUR loved one....
I now believe in Eye for an Eye......
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| Posted 6/23/11 4:29 PM |
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Babymakin
LIF Adult
Member since 12/10 920 total posts
Name:
Sarah
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by Viviane1108
I had a family member murdered in cold blood (one shot to the head) and then raped after she was dead...
As a catholic I did not believe in death penalty until that day......growing up in a catholic church controlled country I was always told to give people a second chance...
As a close family member I was able to watch the murderer die (case was in FL) and to tell you the truth...the second I saw the leathal injection enter his vein I felt justice was done......not for a second did I feel bad that a human being was dying...
SO sorry for your loss and for this.
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| Posted 6/23/11 4:29 PM |
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dazies827
expecting boy # 3
Member since 9/09 2522 total posts
Name:
Chris
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by Viviane1108
I had a family member murdered in cold blood (one shot to the head) and then raped after she was dead...
As a catholic I did not believe in death penalty until that day......growing up in a catholic church controlled country I was always told to give people a second chance...
As a close family member I was able to watch the murderer die (case was in FL) and to tell you the truth...the second I saw the leathal injection enter his vein I felt justice was done......not for a second did I feel bad that a human being was dying...
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| Posted 6/23/11 4:33 PM |
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dazies827
expecting boy # 3
Member since 9/09 2522 total posts
Name:
Chris
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by Goldi0218
If there was definitive proof that someone killed my child, husband or fiance or parent, I'd want them dead and I'd make no apologies for that.
If this is able to be proven without a doubt, I'd never invalidate the feelings of those family members if they wanted this guy dead or not.
ITA!!!
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| Posted 6/23/11 4:33 PM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name:
BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by Viviane1108
I had a family member murdered in cold blood (one shot to the head) and then raped after she was dead...
As a catholic I did not believe in death penalty until that day......growing up in a catholic church controlled country I was always told to give people a second chance...
As a close family member I was able to watch the murderer die (case was in FL) and to tell you the truth...the second I saw the leathal injection enter his vein I felt justice was done......not for a second did I feel bad that a human being was dying...
I feel your pain.
My cousin was abducted, repeatedly raped and beaten for a week until finally the POS took her life (only after he made her beg for her life).
There was no feeling of justice being served until he died this year, over 30+ years after the fact.
Serving time does not make you feel any better as a victim. It just prolongs the pain, as far as I'm concerned.
Honestly, the day we found out he died, there was a feeling of relief.
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| Posted 6/23/11 4:40 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by Viviane1108
I had a family member murdered in cold blood (one shot to the head) and then raped after she was dead...
As a catholic I did not believe in death penalty until that day......growing up in a catholic church controlled country I was always told to give people a second chance...
As a close family member I was able to watch the murderer die (case was in FL) and to tell you the truth...the second I saw the leathal injection enter his vein I felt justice was done......not for a second did I feel bad that a human being was dying...
Anita, I am so sorry.
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| Posted 6/23/11 4:48 PM |
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emilylives
biking
Member since 12/09 2163 total posts
Name:
Emily
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Posted by jerseypanda
See, now I think it is a matter of opinion as to what is better... being in jail for life or rotting in the ground. At least in jail you have to sit and wonder when it is all going to end. You never know how long or short your "life" sentence will be. If you're dead and in the ground, you're not worrying about anything.
Totally agree with this. It's a personal decision which is worse. I'm almost sure (not 100% because who knows how I would feel in that position?) that I would choose death over life in jail.
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| Posted 6/23/11 6:12 PM |
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Acerone
I hate ants and ugly people.
Member since 3/07 6437 total posts
Name:
Chris
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
The system did not believe the 13 year old. They said it was all in her head..
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| Posted 6/23/11 6:29 PM |
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peanutsmom
LIF Infant
Member since 3/11 52 total posts
Name:
North Shore Lady
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Re: Death Penalty- Pharmacy shooter
Don't hold your breath for anyone deserving of the death penalty getting it here. One hundred twenty two years ago, the last legal execution by hanging in this state took place at Brooklyn's Raymond Street Jail. This state is too liberal to enforce it.
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| Posted 6/23/11 6:44 PM |
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