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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by annoyedTTCer
We cover education through high school, why should the government cover more than that?
How many rich Europeans have left their home country to avoid taxes?
Not all of us want to pay tax rates similar to those in Europe, some of us would like to keep what we earn.
By the way, if Europe is such a great place why is their unemployment rate usually higher than ours?
As for health insurance, a large percentage of people without insurance are people in their late 20s who opt to not have insurance because they don't want to pay for it. Why are we going to give short sighted people like that a free ride?
it's not "the government". it's PEOPLE taking care of each other and seeing that EACH GENERATION gets the education and care it deserves to both survive and THRIVE in the global market.
not as many euros who continue to live there and thrive 
you would be keeping what you "earn" in other ways...through not having to pay out as much for healthcare and not having to spend a small fortune on your and your child's college education.
Europe is a CONTINENT. not a country. if you look at countries individually, that is not the case. check out the unemployment rates for Switzerland (who's social and economic model I am a big fan of) even NOW, in the height of the econonic downturn, the unemployment rate is about 3.5%.
compare that to ours.
ETA: I didn't respond to your comments about health insurance. your response shows me you really don't have a grasp of that issue..that's the only thing I see that appears short sighted to me.
I have worked most of my career in the world of health insurance. I can assure you it is not the way you describe it.
in any way.
at all.
Message edited 5/28/2009 11:47:57 AM.
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Posted 5/28/09 11:30 AM  |
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BunnyWife
Insert Witty Comment Here
Member since 5/07 8274 total posts
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BunnyWife
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by tourist
Posted by racheeeee
I live in the UK, we pay Value Added Tax to everything we buy. Its already added into the price on the price tag. I didn't state that any tax would disappear. Not sure where you go that from. We pay 15% VAT at the moment, it was 17.5% until earlier this year when the government decided to give us a tax break. Thanks Gordon Brown.
Wow--that's a lot! I guess you get used to it when itis worked into the sticker price. I guess here, the VAT would be included in the price tag, but then there would be state/city/local tax on top, so it would seem to be the way it is now, but your base price would be higher, b/c the VAT is already included.
it's not really "a lot" when you consider what it pays for.
they pay the VAT, but don't pay as much (if anything for healthcare) their children are guaranteed a college education, in some countries women are guaranteed PAID maternity leave.
sure, euro countries pay FAR more in taxes than we do here, but they get a lot of bang for the buck.
they are not socialists...there are PLENTY of rich people in these countries, just like there are not so rich people.
but the difference is their needs are ALL met at the most basic level...healthcare, education.
We cover education through high school, why should the government cover more than that?
How many rich Europeans have left their home country to avoid taxes?
Not all of us want to pay tax rates similar to those in Europe, some of us would like to keep what we earn.
By the way, if Europe is such a great place why is their unemployment rate usually higher than ours?
As for health insurance, a large percentage of people without insurance are people in their late 20s who opt to not have insurance because they don't want to pay for it. Why are we going to give short sighted people like that a free ride?
Because a high school education will get you know where in todays world. You either need college or trade school for most well paying jobs. Why should people who are able to afford very high tuitions be able to attend the best universities? Wealth = Better education?
The happiest country in the world is Denmark according to a recent study. They pay some of the highest taxes in Europe but they also have amazing healthcare and their educations are completely paid for with the idea that citizens will give back to the country.
Most of the people I know who don't have health insurance can't afford it privately and their jobs don't offer it. You don't think these people want insurance? I don't know many actors, writers, freelancers who can afford the unbelievable high premiums of privately bought insurance. It has nothing to do with short sightedness or laziness.
ETA: Spelling
Message edited 5/28/2009 11:33:33 AM.
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| Posted 5/28/09 11:31 AM |
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tourist
Member since 5/05 10425 total posts
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by tourist
Posted by racheeeee
I live in the UK, we pay Value Added Tax to everything we buy. Its already added into the price on the price tag. I didn't state that any tax would disappear. Not sure where you go that from. We pay 15% VAT at the moment, it was 17.5% until earlier this year when the government decided to give us a tax break. Thanks Gordon Brown.
Wow--that's a lot! I guess you get used to it when itis worked into the sticker price. I guess here, the VAT would be included in the price tag, but then there would be state/city/local tax on top, so it would seem to be the way it is now, but your base price would be higher, b/c the VAT is already included.
it's not really "a lot" when you consider what it pays for.
No, I just meant it is much more than we are used to with our state & local taxes.
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| Posted 5/28/09 11:49 AM |
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annoyedTTCer
LIF Adult
Member since 4/09 3272 total posts
Name:
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by BunnyWife
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by tourist
Posted by racheeeee
I live in the UK, we pay Value Added Tax to everything we buy. Its already added into the price on the price tag. I didn't state that any tax would disappear. Not sure where you go that from. We pay 15% VAT at the moment, it was 17.5% until earlier this year when the government decided to give us a tax break. Thanks Gordon Brown.
Wow--that's a lot! I guess you get used to it when itis worked into the sticker price. I guess here, the VAT would be included in the price tag, but then there would be state/city/local tax on top, so it would seem to be the way it is now, but your base price would be higher, b/c the VAT is already included.
it's not really "a lot" when you consider what it pays for.
they pay the VAT, but don't pay as much (if anything for healthcare) their children are guaranteed a college education, in some countries women are guaranteed PAID maternity leave.
sure, euro countries pay FAR more in taxes than we do here, but they get a lot of bang for the buck.
they are not socialists...there are PLENTY of rich people in these countries, just like there are not so rich people.
but the difference is their needs are ALL met at the most basic level...healthcare, education.
We cover education through high school, why should the government cover more than that?
How many rich Europeans have left their home country to avoid taxes?
Not all of us want to pay tax rates similar to those in Europe, some of us would like to keep what we earn.
By the way, if Europe is such a great place why is their unemployment rate usually higher than ours?
As for health insurance, a large percentage of people without insurance are people in their late 20s who opt to not have insurance because they don't want to pay for it. Why are we going to give short sighted people like that a free ride?
Because a high school education will get you know where in todays world. You either need college or trade school for most well paying jobs. Why should people who are able to afford very high tuitions be able to attend the best universities? Wealth = Better education?
The happiest country in the world is Denmark according to a recent study. They pay some of the highest taxes in Europe but they also have amazing healthcare and their educations are completely paid for with the idea that citizens will give back to the country.
Most of the people I know who don't have health insurance can't afford it privately and their jobs don't offer it. You don't think these people want insurance? I don't know many actors, writers, freelancers who can afford the unbelievable high premiums of privately bought insurance. It has nothing to do with short sightedness or laziness.
ETA: Spelling
The FACT remains that we have people out their eligible for insurance who CHOSE to not take advantage of their employer’s coverage.
Maybe before we have national healthcare we should make it mandatory to accept coverage from work or spouse’s job, no waiving coverage unless you can prove you have other coverage.
As for freelancers not having coverage, that has always come with the territory. They also don’t get vacation time and paid holidays, price they pay for their flexible work schedules. There is a freelancers union in NYC that helps people get coverage, have any of your friends called?
As for college, we have student loans and scholarships.
They worked for my friends and I, why can't they work for everyone else?
Send someone to school for free and I bet a nice chunk doesn't take it seriously and pisses away government money. People with loans are more likely to take studies seriously when they have a vested interest in matters.
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| Posted 5/28/09 1:02 PM |
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annoyedTTCer
LIF Adult
Member since 4/09 3272 total posts
Name:
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by annoyedTTCer
We cover education through high school, why should the government cover more than that?
How many rich Europeans have left their home country to avoid taxes?
Not all of us want to pay tax rates similar to those in Europe, some of us would like to keep what we earn.
By the way, if Europe is such a great place why is their unemployment rate usually higher than ours?
As for health insurance, a large percentage of people without insurance are people in their late 20s who opt to not have insurance because they don't want to pay for it. Why are we going to give short sighted people like that a free ride?
it's not "the government". it's PEOPLE taking care of each other and seeing that EACH GENERATION gets the education and care it deserves to both survive and THRIVE in the global market.
not as many euros who continue to live there and thrive
you would be keeping what you "earn" in other ways...through not having to pay out as much for healthcare and not having to spend a small fortune on your and your child's college education.
Europe is a CONTINENT. not a country. if you look at countries individually, that is not the case. check out the unemployment rates for Switzerland (who's social and economic model I am a big fan of) even NOW, in the height of the econonic downturn, the unemployment rate is about 3.5%.
compare that to ours.
ETA: I didn't respond to your comments about health insurance. your response shows me you really don't have a grasp of that issue..that's the only thing I see that appears short sighted to me.
I have worked most of my career in the world of health insurance. I can assure you it is not the way you describe it.
in any way.
at all.
What are the unemployment rates in France and Germany for poeople under 35?
You have no good reply for people giving up coverage so you ignore the issue, nice
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| Posted 5/28/09 1:04 PM |
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Cpt2007
A new love!
Member since 1/08 5946 total posts
Name:
Liz
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by annoyedTTCer
You have no good reply for people giving up coverage so you ignore the issue, nice
Abrasive much?
Do you have any statistics to back up your claim that people are simply forgoing coverage for the heck of it and not b/c they can't afford the coverage?
I am reading a lot of bluster and not much evidence in your posts.
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| Posted 5/28/09 1:11 PM |
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jerseypanda
Life is good.
Member since 1/07 9164 total posts
Name:
Amanda
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Maybe before we have national healthcare we should make it mandatory to accept coverage from work or spouse’s job, no waiving coverage unless you can prove you have other coverage.
Personally, I think this is a much less black and white issue here. In a perfect world, it would be great if it was mandatory that everyone accept the health insurance that is being offered by their jobs, but the fact is that people still end up paying for it and sometimes putting food on the table and keeping the lights on are more important to some.
I know that when I compared my health insurance to DH's, we would have to pay much more to go with DH's insurance. And he just got one choice, as opposed to my 4 different choices. Some of the options with my own company are very costly.
I just think that there are a lot of people out there who can't afford the extra couple of hundred dollars a month (if not more) coming out of their paychecks to contribute to health insurance. Then they just hope and pray that they don't need to go to the doctor. 
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| Posted 5/28/09 1:19 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
deleted
Message edited 5/28/2009 1:47:37 PM.
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| Posted 5/28/09 1:26 PM |
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donegal419
St. Gerard, pray for us.
Member since 7/07 7650 total posts
Name:
K
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
sounds great--- IF they get rid of the 8.65% sales tax we're already paying here on LI. anything more is insane.
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| Posted 5/28/09 1:51 PM |
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twiceasnice
LIF Adult
Member since 2/08 1126 total posts
Name:
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by jerseypanda
Posted by annoyedTTCer
Maybe before we have national healthcare we should make it mandatory to accept coverage from work or spouse’s job, no waiving coverage unless you can prove you have other coverage.
Personally, I think this is a much less black and white issue here. In a perfect world, it would be great if it was mandatory that everyone accept the health insurance that is being offered by their jobs, but the fact is that people still end up paying for it and sometimes putting food on the table and keeping the lights on are more important to some.
I know that when I compared my health insurance to DH's, we would have to pay much more to go with DH's insurance. And he just got one choice, as opposed to my 4 different choices. Some of the options with my own company are very costly.
I just think that there are a lot of people out there who can't afford the extra couple of hundred dollars a month (if not more) coming out of their paychecks to contribute to health insurance. Then they just hope and pray that they don't need to go to the doctor.
The problem is that those people will have to come up with that extra couple of hundred anyhow. They will be getting the coverage they can't afford to begin with but paying for it everytime they buy milk (or anything else).
I like my current coverage because it is a "consumer driven plan" which is great for me because I may go to the Dr. 1-2 a year.
If I have to pay extra money out of my already taxed budget for something I will not use then I am not a happy camper. If they eliminated income tax then I would not have a problem paying a National sales tax.
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| Posted 5/28/09 2:18 PM |
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yankinmanc
Happy Days!
Member since 8/05 18208 total posts
Name:
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
I may pay VAT on items that I buy, but my property taxes are only about $1600 a year. I would make a bet that no one else in the world pays as much property tax as the US does.
Also, don't knock socialised health care until you have had an emergency operation and stay in hospital and walk away without paying a penny. I wouldn't move back to the states now that I have been a part of a country with socialised health care. Its the greatest thing since sliced bread!!!!
Also, the number of rich Europeans who are leaving to come to the states is a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of rich Europeans who stay...
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| Posted 5/28/09 5:25 PM |
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Kidsaplenty
Sister love
Member since 2/06 5971 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by Ophelia
it's not really "a lot" when you consider what it pays for.
they pay the VAT, but don't pay as much (if anything for healthcare) their children are guaranteed a college education, in some countries women are guaranteed PAID maternity leave.
sure, euro countries pay FAR more in taxes than we do here, but they get a lot of bang for the buck.
they are not socialists...there are PLENTY of rich people in these countries, just like there are not so rich people.
but the difference is their needs are ALL met at the most basic level...healthcare, education.
ITA! It is about investing in our country, and our people.
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| Posted 5/28/09 5:38 PM |
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BunnyWife
Insert Witty Comment Here
Member since 5/07 8274 total posts
Name:
BunnyWife
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by racheeeee
I may pay VAT on items that I buy, but my property taxes are only about $1600 a year. I would make a bet that no one else in the world pays as much property tax as the US does.
Also, don't knock socialised health care until you have had an emergency operation and stay in hospital and walk away without paying a penny. I wouldn't move back to the states now that I have been a part of a country with socialised health care. Its the greatest thing since sliced bread!!!!
Also, the number of rich Europeans who are leaving to come to the states is a drop in the bucket compared to the millions of rich Europeans who stay...
Thank you! It's nice to hear opinions from someone who lives under this system.
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| Posted 5/28/09 5:45 PM |
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KLSbear
LIF Adult
Member since 1/06 1908 total posts
Name:
Karen
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by racheeeee
I may pay VAT on items that I buy, but my property taxes are only about $1600 a year. I would make a bet that no one else in the world pays as much property tax as the US does.
And that's a very important point - they may be talking about a VAT but I don't see where they are talking about substantially cutting other taxes. They want to add it to what we already pay. They were just talking about this on the news and the example they gave was that a $5000 bathroom renovation would cost $6250 if they institute the 25% VAT. I can see where that would bring a lot of spending to a grinding halt, or give rise to even more under the table and off the books spending.
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| Posted 5/28/09 6:17 PM |
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klingklang77
kraftwerk!
Member since 7/06 11487 total posts
Name:
Völlig losgelöst
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by donegal419
sounds great--- IF they get rid of the 8.65% sales tax we're already paying here on LI. anything more is insane.
I agree.
Here in Australia we pay 10% VAT (it's called GST here). From there the gov't distributes it to the states and territories.
A lot of tax comes out of our income as well, more than the US.
We get healthcare and you can get private healthcare for better coverage as dental is not included in regular healthcare.
I like paying for something and that is the price, no more added taxes when you get to the register. DH is always complaining about it when we go home for a visit. 
Things are more expensive here, but that is just because of our location and shipping things here is $$$. We also do make more money with regards to rent etc.
Sydney is a great city to live (if it weren't so far from my family I would stay here permanently) and ranks as #10 in top cities to live in, in the world.
Mercer Quality of Living
The first American city is 29.
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| Posted 5/28/09 6:54 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
that's awesome... just awesome
the have's get to pay for the have nots - even more than they do already.
and this is not socialism?
what is the wealth ratio per capita between Americans and Europeans? I would really like to know.
I know quite a few people who moved to the US from various European countries (mostly the UK) because they wanted a better quality of life (ie: to keep more of their hard earned money). and for the record, these people I speak of are quite successful - executive level or almost at that level. I guess they got sick of supporting the have nots.
eta: you want a sneak preview into socialized healthcare in the US, check out how our Gov't runs Medicare/Medicaid.
according to the Congressional budget office, medicare/medicaid accounts for 23% of our federal budget. social security accounts for 22%. so that's 45% of our ENTIRE federal budget already being spent on social programs!
Message edited 5/28/2009 7:39:43 PM.
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| Posted 5/28/09 7:07 PM |
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by Kara
I support it ONLY if we abolish the federal income tax.
Flame suit securely zipped. 
No flame here, I agree 110% because:
--people here illegally still have to purchase things
--people not reporting cash income still have to purchase things
--we can decide what we purchase/how much we want to spend, not have it taken from us bi-weekly, perhaps encouraging more spending.
Overall, I believe the revenue the gov't would receive would be higher with a VAT.
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| Posted 5/28/09 7:14 PM |
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by KLSbear
I can see where that would bring a lot of spending to a grinding halt, or give rise to even more under the table and off the books spending.
I disagree, becasue the materials would have a VAT attached to them, regardless of how the deal was made. The tax would be paid upfront...not on labor but goods.
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| Posted 5/28/09 7:19 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by KLSbear
I can see where that would bring a lot of spending to a grinding halt, or give rise to even more under the table and off the books spending.
I disagree, becasue the materials would have a VAT attached to them, regardless of how the deal was made. The tax would be paid upfront...not on labor but goods.
this "wish" for no income tax would be great, however, it won't happen. many states are already bankrupt (including ours), and are looking into increasing income taxes.
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| Posted 5/28/09 7:28 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by jerseypanda
I just think that there are a lot of people out there who can't afford the extra couple of hundred dollars a month (if not more) coming out of their paychecks to contribute to health insurance. Then they just hope and pray that they don't need to go to the doctor.
so how are these same people going to be able to afford paying the HUGE increase in their payroll taxes??
the money has to come from somewhere.
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| Posted 5/28/09 7:39 PM |
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by KLSbear
I can see where that would bring a lot of spending to a grinding halt, or give rise to even more under the table and off the books spending.
I disagree, becasue the materials would have a VAT attached to them, regardless of how the deal was made. The tax would be paid upfront...not on labor but goods.
this "wish" for no income tax would be great, however, it won't happen. many states are already bankrupt (including ours), and are looking into increasing income taxes.
The only income tax that would be abolished would be federal, as the VAT would be federal. I'm sure state income and sales taxes would still prevail, but we pay those now anyway.
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| Posted 5/28/09 7:40 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by klingklang77
Posted by donegal419
sounds great--- IF they get rid of the 8.65% sales tax we're already paying here on LI. anything more is insane.
I agree.
Here in Australia we pay 10% VAT (it's called GST here). From there the gov't distributes it to the states and territories.
A lot of tax comes out of our income as well, more than the US.
We get healthcare and you can get private healthcare for better coverage as dental is not included in regular healthcare.
I like paying for something and that is the price, no more added taxes when you get to the register. DH is always complaining about it when we go home for a visit.
Things are more expensive here, but that is just because of our location and shipping things here is $$$. We also do make more money with regards to rent etc.
Sydney is a great city to live (if it weren't so far from my family I would stay here permanently) and ranks as #10 in top cities to live in, in the world.
Mercer Quality of Living
The first American city is 29.
correct me if I am wrong but, don't you do a huge amount of shopping when you visit the US? I remember you talking about it quite a bit on the fashion board and saying how everything is really expensive in Australia.
and while I am sure that European countries and Sydney are great places to live, they all enjoy coming to the states for bargains - sans VAT.
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| Posted 5/28/09 7:47 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by BaseballWidow
Posted by KLSbear
I can see where that would bring a lot of spending to a grinding halt, or give rise to even more under the table and off the books spending.
I disagree, becasue the materials would have a VAT attached to them, regardless of how the deal was made. The tax would be paid upfront...not on labor but goods.
this "wish" for no income tax would be great, however, it won't happen. many states are already bankrupt (including ours), and are looking into increasing income taxes.
The only income tax that would be abolished would be federal, as the VAT would be federal. I'm sure state income and sales taxes would still prevail, but we pay those now anyway.
we pay taxes on our incomes, to the state and fed
we pay taxes on just about EVERY purchase we make
we pay taxes to all utility companies every month
we pay property taxes
enough with the taxes!
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| Posted 5/28/09 7:49 PM |
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Mommy2Boys
My Boys!!!!
Member since 6/06 14437 total posts
Name:
C
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by jerseypanda
so how are these same people going to be able to afford paying the HUGE increase in their payroll taxes??
the money has to come from somewhere.
We are going to go outside and shake our money tree's like the gov't does
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| Posted 5/28/09 7:52 PM |
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SweetestOfPeas
J'taime Paris!
Member since 3/06 32345 total posts
Name:
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Re: how do you feel about a national sales tax on top of regular sales tax
Posted by jellybean1420
Posted by SweetestOfPeas
Posted by jerseypanda
so how are these same people going to be able to afford paying the HUGE increase in their payroll taxes??
the money has to come from somewhere.
We are going to go outside and shake our money tree's like the gov't does
or better yet, borrow from China, like we've been doing 
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| Posted 5/28/09 7:54 PM |
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