| Posted By |
Message |
| Pages: [1] 2 |
JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers - ONE MORE Q
FFIL was taken to the hospital yesterday. He's been battling cancer for over 2 years. We spent the whole weekend at the hospital. He's gotten very sick before...was given 3 weeks in December but they tried new meds and he bounced back. This morning we were told it's the end and there is nothing they can do but make him comfortable. Tomorrow we will be making decisions about hospice care.
So, my side of the family and a good portion of our friends are not Jewish, so I want to create an email I can send them when Dad passes so they know what to do. As you know, this is very different from the Catholic traditions. My immediate family knows from other relatives, but I think more people will want to come or do something since it's Doug's father. I just want to send them something about the etiquette, like how there's no wake, no flowers, what shiva is and basic shiva etiquette. I looked around online and everything seemed either really restrictive (none of us are observant) or just didn't explain properly. Do you know of anything I can copy/paste? I could write something but I'd rather not reinvent the wheel.
I want to do it now because I know when he time comes I am really going to be a wreck and also very busy. I have to keep DOug and his mom together and I also volunteered the make the calls, since I'm the closest family member who will (hopefully) keep my wits at least somewhat. Has anyone had to make these calls before? I really don't know how to tell people their cousin, uncle, etc died. Any thoughts?
Also, please send over some prayers. We're just really hoping he can be comfortable and peaceful. I don't know if any of us can live through it if he has to be like he was yesterday.
I am so sad. I know we've known for a long time, but we always had hope, and I was hoping he could come to out tasting in June. It's really hard to grip reality right now. I also kind of lost my dad another way, and I feel like I'm reliving those feelings also.
ETA: As I wrote below, there are absolutely no funeral arrangments made and our aunt said it is much better to do this in advance. FSIL is dealing with getting the grave paperwork in order, and I am trying to find a memorial chapel (sorry if that's not the right term). When Doug's grandparents died for some reason it was in a Lubovitch place, and for various reasons (not really having to do with Lubovitch) we didn't really like it and want to find another one. Do you have any suggestions in Brooklyn (Sheepshead bay/coney island)? The family doesn't really have an affiliation with a shul or a rabbi.
Message edited 3/8/2010 12:51:30 PM.
|
Posted 3/7/10 11:00 PM  |
| |
|
mikeandjess
LIF Adult
Member since 10/07 2278 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
I'm very sorry to hear about your FFIL  It's common to send meals because the family is not supposed to cook, or do anything for that matter. If you want to suggest something you can suggest they arrange different days to have dinners sent to the house for the week of the shiva. If your FFIL suffers from a specific illness I think donations to the cause are also very nice.
|
| Posted 3/7/10 11:03 PM |
| |
|
JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
Posted by mikeandjess
I'm very sorry to hear about your FFIL It's common to send meals because the family is not supposed to cook, or do anything for that matter. If you want to suggest something you can suggest they arrange different days to have dinners sent to the house for the week of the shiva. If your FFIL suffers from a specific illness I think donations to the cause are also very nice.
Thanks **I** know the etiquette, but I was hoping to find a good explanation online. Unfortunately, I've been through this before.
|
| Posted 3/7/10 11:05 PM |
| |
|
mikeandjess
LIF Adult
Member since 10/07 2278 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
My apologies, I misunderstood your post. I found this website:
link
|
| Posted 3/7/10 11:07 PM |
| |
|
PreshusSmurf
So in love with my little guys
Member since 1/07 2963 total posts
Name:
Jess
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
I thought this link had good information regarding the funeral:
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/life/Life_Events/Death_and_Mourning/Practical_Aspects/Going_to_a_Funeral.shtml
|
| Posted 3/7/10 11:07 PM |
| |
|
MeNBobs
*****
Member since 4/07 3765 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
My thoughts are with you during this difficult time.
|
| Posted 3/7/10 11:09 PM |
| |
|
Mushesgirl
Too blessed to be stressed
Member since 4/09 6691 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
for you and your family at this time.
When my uncle passed, my mother (his sister) called to tell my brother and I. His wife called my mother. So perhaps the easiest way is to tell his siblings (if he has them) and they tell their children (your fh's cousins).
|
| Posted 3/7/10 11:22 PM |
| |
|
JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
Posted by Mushesgirl
for you and your family at this time.
When my uncle passed, my mother (his sister) called to tell my brother and I. His wife called my mother. So perhaps the easiest way is to tell his siblings (if he has them) and they tell their children (your fh's cousins).
Yeah I guess I can start phone chains wherever possible.
I got impatient and wrote something (I copied one part from a website) I'm also just like totally overtired and even thought I need to get up very early to go to the hospital I don't really know what to do with myself. Please let me know if I left anything out. (I bet you ten dollars that my uncle is going to ignore it and send a ginormous floral arrangement)
I kow that some of you will wish to attend the funeral or pay a shiva call, and we definitely appreciate your support. In case you're not familiar with the Jewish customs of mourning, I want to give you some information that may be helpful, since they are very different from Christian traditions.
The funeral itself is very much like a Christian funeral. There is a short service at the memorial chapel, where we will say prayers and where the eulogies, etc will be recited. Then we will proceed to the cemetery for the burial service. The rabbi will lead us all in prayer and all in attendance will be called to shovel or throw a little dirt in the grave (but you do not have to do this). If you choose to shovel dirt, place the shovel back into the ground, rather than handing it to the next person.
There is no wake in Jewish families. Instead friends and relatives come together to console the mourners at Shiva. Shiva starts right after the funeral and last seven days. During this time the mourners (immediate family) will be in the house "sitting shiva." This is the time when family, friends, and neighbors can comfort the family. The Shiva will take place at --------
No flowers are sent for Jewish funerals, but if you would like to send something, it is appropriate to send trays of food, as the immediate family is not allowed to cook. You may also make a donation to the Guy M. Stewart Cancer Fund.
A few things to note about shiva
1) You are not supposed to ring the doorbell, and no one will greet you at the door. The door will be unlocked and you may just enter and sit down. Generally tradition dictates that you should allow the mourners to address you first. but it is a good time to give condolences.
2) The mourners (Immediate family- spouse, children, siblings, grandchildren) will be sitting on low chairs. You should sit on a regular height chair.
Find the mourners. Go to the mourners as soon as possible. What do you say? The tradition suggests being silent, allowing the mourner to open the conversation. Simply offering a hug, a kiss, a handshake, an arm around the shoulder speaks volumes. If you do want to open a conversation, start with a simple "I'm so sorry" or "I don't know what to say. This must be really difficult for you" or "I was so sorry to hear about _______." Be sure to name the deceased. Why? Because one of the most powerful ways to comfort mourners is to encourage them to remember the deceased.
Recall something personal: "I loved _______. Remember the times we went on vacation together? The entire purpose of shiva is to focus on the life of the person who has died and his or her relationship to the family and friends in that room.
A few other things you will notice - as mourners we will be wearing black ribbons, which goes back to the biblical tradition of rending ones' garments. The mirrors in the house will be covered, since mourners are not supposed to be concerned with appearance, and we will not be wearing leather shoes. Shiva is the time to be devoted to mourning, so it is appropriate to offer help, and if you bring food, please bring it directly into the kitchen. The idea is to try to keep the mourners from working to the extent possible.
Rhank your for your support at this difficult time
|
| Posted 3/7/10 11:44 PM |
| |
|
mrswask
Pookie Love
Member since 5/05 20229 total posts
Name:
Michal
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
I'm sorry, Jenn
|
| Posted 3/7/10 11:46 PM |
| |
|
JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
Also, Technically we're not married, so I know technically I'm not really supposed to be a mourner, but I will have that role since I have been part of the family for so long.
In the past, with grandparents I have been the one running around and cleaning up, and making food, etc. But this time I will need to just mourn with my family. I know my MIL and FIL and SIL and BIL and of course Doug all consider me part of the family and a "daughter" of FIL.
 
|
| Posted 3/7/10 11:47 PM |
| |
|
|
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
|
| Posted 3/7/10 11:47 PM |
| |
|
PrincessP
Big sister!!!!!!!!!!
Member since 12/05 17450 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
Just want to calm your nerves a bit...
Sounds like you are going to be a fantastic IL to this family bc you are trying so hard for everything to be perfect. My dad had passed unexpectedly and people of all religions came forth. We got flowers sent to the funeral home (totally inappropriate to a jewish funeral) BUTTTTTTTT....Totally appreciated. My point being ....no one expects that everyone knows jewish laws and customs. What we chose to do was take the piece apart and everyone put a rose down at the gravesite upon burial. Flowers are also not customary at a jewish cemetary but to date I bring my dad flowers. i guess my point is, as much as you want things perfect, always remember the sentiments brought forth are always remembered whether the rules are followed or not. You are an awesome person for thinking so much of your future husbands family.
|
| Posted 3/7/10 11:51 PM |
| |
|
JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
Thank you for the hugs, advice and prayers.
I'm really nervous since I just got back to work from disability. My boss is not the most fleixibke or caring man, but I ddin't ask, I sent an email TELLING him I'm going to be late tomorrow. Also, when the time comes I hope he'll be nice about time off. Since I'm not married to Doug, I'd only technically get one day off. I know my old boss would have given me the three... but whatever. I just hope I can get through this without job stress. All this is going on and I'm stressing about my job and time off. Mabe partially this is my way of coping..making plans and trying to just DO SOMETHIGN cause we can't do anything for dad, but it's also that my job and my relationship with my boss are both really stressful right now.
|
| Posted 3/7/10 11:51 PM |
| |
|
JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
Posted by PrincessP
Just want to calm your nerves a bit...
Sounds like you are going to be a fantastic IL to this family bc you are trying so hard for everything to be perfect. My dad had passed unexpectedly and people of all religions came forth. We got flowers sent to the funeral home (totally inappropriate to a jewish funeral) BUTTTTTTTT....Totally appreciated. My point being ....no one expects that everyone knows jewish laws and customs. What we chose to do was take the piece apart and everyone put a rose down at the gravesite upon burial. Flowers are also not customary at a jewish cemetary but to date I bring my dad flowers. i guess my point is, as much as you want things perfect, always remember the sentiments brought forth are always remembered whether the rules are followed or not. You are an awesome person for thinking so much of your future husbands family.
Thank you. I am so sorry about your dad.
I think you are very right though. Doug's familt is especially not at all the type to stand on ceremony or get offended if people do the wrong thing, but I want to try as much as possible to make sure everyone is comfortable.
It's just kind of my personality to take over in a crisis and make sure everything is ok and everything is set up. I also know that Doug and Mom and SIL are all really emotional people who will take this a lot harder than many other people would. Not that anyone could take it easily, but they don't have my personality of like "ok I'm going to shoulder this and get through it"..they are more the falling apart type so I just want to plan everything so it's all in place and I can just be there for them and not worry about anything else.
|
| Posted 3/7/10 11:55 PM |
| |
|
Phyl
R.I.P. Sweet Mia ♥
Member since 5/06 28918 total posts
Name:
The Mystical Azzhorse! ™
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
|
| Posted 3/8/10 12:06 AM |
| |
|
|
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
I am so sorry Jenn-I know evnme is clergy-I would FM her.
In my family, we just don't send flowers and send food instead.
|
| Posted 3/8/10 5:47 AM |
| |
|
Shorty
.
Member since 5/05 30390 total posts
Name:
really
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
I'm so sorry 
The only thing I would add to your email is re: the food. Some people would have questions on whether or not kosher meals are expected, etc.
|
| Posted 3/8/10 7:33 AM |
| |
|
EricaAlt
LIF Adult
Member since 7/08 22665 total posts
Name:
Erica
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
|
| Posted 3/8/10 8:44 AM |
| |
|
Shelly
She's 7!!!
Member since 8/05 14624 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
I'm sorry.
I would definitely address the issue of Kosher or kosher style food (whatever the mourners are engaging in). I'm sure that many non-Jews are not familar with the customs of Kosher and don't know that it is inappropriate to send shrimp, pork, etc...
|
| Posted 3/8/10 8:50 AM |
| |
|
sweetie101
you make me smile :o)
Member since 5/08 4419 total posts
Name:
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
|
| Posted 3/8/10 8:56 AM |
| |
|
Jax430
Hi!
Member since 5/05 18919 total posts
Name:
Jackie
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers
Jenn, I am so sorry to hear about Doug's dad.
I know you are going to provide Doug and his family with so much strength during this time. I think the most important things to tell people is when and where Shiva is being held (while 7 days is traditional, some less observant do 3 days). You might want to tell them that they shouldn't ring the doorbell, just come in the house. Also, tell them to go over to the mourners and address them first, as the mourners are not supposed to be acting as hosts by greeting people, taking their coats etc. It is often hard to avoid this, as people are used to being hospitable in their own home.
Let friends know that rather than flowers, it is appropriate to bring food the shiva house. You might be able to help by arranging when meals are arriving. Chances are there will be several different people/groups of people who will want to order food for the family. You can help by saying, "Thank you, so and so told me they are sending food on Monday, but if you would like to send something for Tuesday or Wednesday, that would be greatly appreciated."
Jenn, feel free to email me or call me if you have any other questions.
|
| Posted 3/8/10 9:49 AM |
| |
|
JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers -
Thank you!
I should def. include a note about the food. People don't need to go crazy for kosher or kosher style. They would love to eat bacon-wrapped shrimp with a side of cheeseurger.
Good point.
Also, I found out today that there are absolutely NO arrangements made at all, so FSIL is handing getting the paperwork together for the cemetary, and I have to find a memorial chapel (sorry if that's not the right word). Can anyone reccomend one in Brooklyn? SheepsheadBay/Coney Island area is preferred. Thank you again SO much for the advice and support. i knew I could count on you.
|
| Posted 3/8/10 12:49 PM |
| |
|
PreshusSmurf
So in love with my little guys
Member since 1/07 2963 total posts
Name:
Jess
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers - ONE MORE Q
They're not in Sheepshead but its not far, and they're pretty conveniently located:
Parkside
IJ Morris
ETA: As far as cemeteries, most of my family is here:
New Montefiore
Message edited 3/8/2010 1:32:58 PM.
|
| Posted 3/8/10 1:30 PM |
| |
|
PreshusSmurf
So in love with my little guys
Member since 1/07 2963 total posts
Name:
Jess
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers - ONE MORE Q
Posted by Jax430
Jenn, I am so sorry to hear about Doug's dad.
I know you are going to provide Doug and his family with so much strength during this time. I think the most important things to tell people is when and where Shiva is being held (while 7 days is traditional, some less observant do 3 days). You might want to tell them that they shouldn't ring the doorbell, just come in the house. Also, tell them to go over to the mourners and address them first, as the mourners are not supposed to be acting as hosts by greeting people, taking their coats etc. It is often hard to avoid this, as people are used to being hospitable in their own home.
Let friends know that rather than flowers, it is appropriate to bring food the shiva house. You might be able to help by arranging when meals are arriving. Chances are there will be several different people/groups of people who will want to order food for the family. You can help by saying, "Thank you, so and so told me they are sending food on Monday, but if you would like to send something for Tuesday or Wednesday, that would be greatly appreciated."
Jenn, feel free to email me or call me if you have any other questions.
Great advice!
I'm very sorry for what you're going through.
|
| Posted 3/8/10 1:30 PM |
| |
|
JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
|
Re: Jewish ladies - Shiva help please - and prayers - ONE MORE Q
Posted by PreshusSmurf
They're not in Sheepshead but its not far, and they're pretty conveniently located:
Parkside
IJ Morris
ETA: As far as cemeteries, most of my family is here:
New Montefiore
Thank you! I just found Parkside and I'm going to make some calls..maybe tomorrow. I'm so overwhelmed today.
We had to discuss hospice care. He is a stubborn and nasty patient and he wants to go home, and mom wants to make him happy, but home hospice is nothing like inpatient hospice and she'd have to miss work, etc etc and I just don't think she can handle giving him 24 hour care. She's also upset to tkae him out of the hospital and away from his oncologist but SIL had to say to her "mom, the doctor can't do anything else for him. there is no treatment, he's not getting better", which was hard for her to hear.
They apparently have acemetary plot, but it's co-owned with another relative so they need to do some paperwork ahead of time. I had to ask MIL about this to find out. This could have held up the burial a few days because Mom never mentioned it to us. So I just found out this morning when I askedthat there are no plans whatsoever.
At the very least we did have some time waiting for the social worker, so I pulled MIL aside and went through her phone book with her and got the list of all the people I need to call when the times comes and who to ask them to call and so on.
|
| Posted 3/8/10 1:43 PM |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 |
