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MsSissy
xoxoxo
Member since 3/07 39159 total posts
Name:
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Re: North Fork Crash
Posted by DaniJude
Posted by MsSissy
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Just saw updated news report.
Lowered drivers bail 50k cash - 100k bond.
Blood alcohol test was taken 1 hr and 40 minutes after crash and showed 0.66 which is why they reduced bail and charges.
Is that suppose to say 0.06? Because anything g or edit 0.08 is drunk and 0.66 I don't thino is possible.
.066
So just under .07, meaning.
That's what I thought. The post says 0.66.
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Posted 7/24/15 12:19 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
Long Island's Largest Bridal Resource |
seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: North Fork Crash
Posted by DaniJude
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Lowered drivers bail 50k cash - 100k bond.
Blood alcohol test was taken 1 hr and 40 minutes after crash and showed 0.66 which is why they reduced bail and charges.
My question is does that amount of time allow for the alcohol level to drop significantly? Also wonder if he was put on IV that whole time which would also help flush him out.
Yes and yes.
Many refuse the test so that they can get the IV and/or consume water and urinate in the interim. And yes, the level of intox in NYS is .08 so absolutely that time frame could have reduced him from being legally intox to impaired -- which is a lesser charge. Which is crazy because at both levels you are pretty darn shit-faced.
That's disgusting. Can/did t hey get him on anything for fleeing? That should come with the biggest penalty of all....
ETA: Great to know that drunk disgusting animals who hit and/or kill people have such an easy out to avid responsibility and punishment--if trying to run away doesn't work.
Message edited 7/24/2015 12:26:32 PM.
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| Posted 7/24/15 12:25 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: North Fork Crash
Posted by MsSissy
Posted by DaniJude
Posted by MsSissy
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Just saw updated news report.
Lowered drivers bail 50k cash - 100k bond.
Blood alcohol test was taken 1 hr and 40 minutes after crash and showed 0.66 which is why they reduced bail and charges.
Is that suppose to say 0.06? Because anything g or edit 0.08 is drunk and 0.66 I don't thino is possible.
.066
So just under .07, meaning.
That's what I thought. The post says 0.66.
Yes, I'm assuming a typo...
Those decimal points can get tricky 
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| Posted 7/24/15 12:25 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: North Fork Crash
Posted by seaside
Posted by DaniJude
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Lowered drivers bail 50k cash - 100k bond.
Blood alcohol test was taken 1 hr and 40 minutes after crash and showed 0.66 which is why they reduced bail and charges.
My question is does that amount of time allow for the alcohol level to drop significantly? Also wonder if he was put on IV that whole time which would also help flush him out.
Yes and yes.
Many refuse the test so that they can get the IV and/or consume water and urinate in the interim. And yes, the level of intox in NYS is .08 so absolutely that time frame could have reduced him from being legally intox to impaired -- which is a lesser charge. Which is crazy because at both levels you are pretty darn shit-faced.
That's disgusting. Can/did t hey get him on anything for fleeing? That should come with the biggest penalty of all....
Unfortunately no because he decided when officers said, hey! come back here! he went for another few seconds and then thought better of it so then he technically didn't flee. It's just ridiculous. AND even if he did -- they are currently working on strengthening the penalties for fleeing the scene because they are PATHETIC now -- in fact, it almost encourages the people to flee, when alcohol is involved... Because it gives you time to a. sober up b. concoct a story that "i didn't drink until AFTER the crash, bc I was upset about the crash"  or have days go by before they get you and then you can just say "me?? I wasn't drinking at all" and they have no way to prove it -- and the penalties for doing that are less than that of if they just stayed and submitted to the breath or blood test and failed. So they do it. It's a risk worth taking in a criminal's eyes.
So right now what is trying to be done is to strengthen those penalties for the person who decides to flee to make it just as much, if not worse, than if they stayed --- and it'll be an ADDITIONAL charge on top of everything else, adding the possibility of more jail time so then it makes doing it RISKY and not worth it to the criminal. That is the only way the fleeing the scene will stop. Otherwise it benefits them to do so which is crazy.
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| Posted 7/24/15 12:29 PM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: North Fork Crash
Posted by DaniJude
Posted by seaside
Posted by DaniJude
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Lowered drivers bail 50k cash - 100k bond.
Blood alcohol test was taken 1 hr and 40 minutes after crash and showed 0.66 which is why they reduced bail and charges.
My question is does that amount of time allow for the alcohol level to drop significantly? Also wonder if he was put on IV that whole time which would also help flush him out.
Yes and yes.
Many refuse the test so that they can get the IV and/or consume water and urinate in the interim. And yes, the level of intox in NYS is .08 so absolutely that time frame could have reduced him from being legally intox to impaired -- which is a lesser charge. Which is crazy because at both levels you are pretty darn shit-faced.
That's disgusting. Can/did t hey get him on anything for fleeing? That should come with the biggest penalty of all....
Unfortunately no because he decided when officers said, hey! come back here! he went for another few seconds and then thought better of it so then he technically didn't flee. It's just ridiculous. AND even if he did -- they are currently working on strengthening the penalties for fleeing the scene because they are PATHETIC now -- in fact, it almost encourages the people to flee, when alcohol is involved... Because it gives you time to a. sober up b. concoct a story that "i didn't drink until AFTER the crash, bc I was upset about the crash" or have days go by before they get you and then you can just say "me?? I wasn't drinking at all" and they have no way to prove it -- and the penalties for doing that are less than that of if they just stayed and submitted to the breath or blood test and failed. So they do it. It's a risk worth taking in a criminal's eyes.
So right now what is trying to be done is to strengthen those penalties for the person who decides to flee to make it just as much, if not worse, than if they stayed --- and it'll be an ADDITIONAL charge on top of everything else, adding the possibility of more jail time so then it makes doing it RISKY and not worth it to the criminal. That is the only way the fleeing the scene will stop. Otherwise it benefits them to do so which is crazy.
Wow. OK--I am in. How can the average person get involved and help with this? I am so glad that you're able to educate all of us--I did not know any of this.
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| Posted 7/24/15 12:32 PM |
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2BadSoSad
LIF Adult
Member since 8/12 6791 total posts
Name:
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Re: North Fork Crash
I get that it may have dropped, but I still think the responsibility for this crash lies with the limo driver.
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| Posted 7/24/15 12:46 PM |
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PhyllisNJoe
My Box Is Broken
Member since 6/11 9145 total posts
Name:
Phyllis
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Re: North Fork Crash
Posted by DaniJude
Posted by MsSissy
Posted by DaniJude
Posted by MsSissy
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Just saw updated news report.
Lowered drivers bail 50k cash - 100k bond.
Blood alcohol test was taken 1 hr and 40 minutes after crash and showed 0.66 which is why they reduced bail and charges.
Is that suppose to say 0.06? Because anything g or edit 0.08 is drunk and 0.66 I don't thino is possible.
.066
So just under .07, meaning.
That's what I thought. The post says 0.66.
Yes, I'm assuming a typo...
Those decimal points can get tricky
Yes. Sorry. That's what typing fast and angry can do
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| Posted 7/24/15 12:56 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: North Fork Crash
Posted by DaniJude
Posted by seaside
Posted by DaniJude
Posted by PhyllisNJoe
Lowered drivers bail 50k cash - 100k bond.
Blood alcohol test was taken 1 hr and 40 minutes after crash and showed 0.66 which is why they reduced bail and charges.
My question is does that amount of time allow for the alcohol level to drop significantly? Also wonder if he was put on IV that whole time which would also help flush him out.
Yes and yes.
Many refuse the test so that they can get the IV and/or consume water and urinate in the interim. And yes, the level of intox in NYS is .08 so absolutely that time frame could have reduced him from being legally intox to impaired -- which is a lesser charge. Which is crazy because at both levels you are pretty darn shit-faced.
That's disgusting. Can/did t hey get him on anything for fleeing? That should come with the biggest penalty of all....
Unfortunately no because he decided when officers said, hey! come back here! he went for another few seconds and then thought better of it so then he technically didn't flee. It's just ridiculous. AND even if he did -- they are currently working on strengthening the penalties for fleeing the scene because they are PATHETIC now -- in fact, it almost encourages the people to flee, when alcohol is involved... Because it gives you time to a. sober up b. concoct a story that "i didn't drink until AFTER the crash, bc I was upset about the crash" or have days go by before they get you and then you can just say "me?? I wasn't drinking at all" and they have no way to prove it -- and the penalties for doing that are less than that of if they just stayed and submitted to the breath or blood test and failed. So they do it. It's a risk worth taking in a criminal's eyes.
So right now what is trying to be done is to strengthen those penalties for the person who decides to flee to make it just as much, if not worse, than if they stayed --- and it'll be an ADDITIONAL charge on top of everything else, adding the possibility of more jail time so then it makes doing it RISKY and not worth it to the criminal. That is the only way the fleeing the scene will stop. Otherwise it benefits them to do so which is crazy.
And also, lets say you are drunk and get in a crash.
You flee.
You can say, it wasn't me driving. My car must have been stolen.
In this cas,e no, because there were lots of witnesses.
But lets say a crash on a dark road at night- nobody else really around.
DH told me a story once of a guy who was drunk out of his mind one night in Brooklyn. He was so drunk he crashed into a ton of parked cars, and then right through construction area on a road- destroyed his car, dust and debris flew everywhere.
He got out and ran to the nearest subway platform and was just standing there- covered in dust, bloody from cuts etc. Witnesses who saw him flee all pointed him out to DH- this is the guy, this is the guy.
He claimed- no I wasn't in an accident. It wasn't me driving that car.
DH asked all the witnesses pointing him out to sign statements for - stating it was, in fact him, that was driving, caused all kinds of damage and fled.
Not one wanted to.
Nobody wanted to be bothered having to go to court.
When his case finally came up, it was dismissed.
Sadly the law seems to be on the side of the criminals sometimes.
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| Posted 7/24/15 12:59 PM |
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ndblovah
Be happy always
Member since 1/07 1880 total posts
Name:
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North Fork Crash
Sad all around. It's sad that people still think it's okay to have a "few" and drive. It's sad that these four young ladies are gone because of bad decisions on both the limo drivers and the drivers actions. It's sad that even if/when this guy goes to jail it will never bring back the lives of these four girls. Stupid actions took away these ladies. I feel awful for their families.
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| Posted 7/24/15 1:33 PM |
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seaside
LIF Adult
Member since 6/08 3101 total posts
Name:
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Re: North Fork Crash
It could have been any one of us or the people we love most. Thing have to change.
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| Posted 7/24/15 1:40 PM |
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alli3131
Peanut is here!!!!!!
Member since 5/09 18388 total posts
Name:
Allison
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Re: North Fork Crash
Posted by 2BadSoSad
I get that it may have dropped, but I still think the responsibility for this crash lies with the limo driver.
I agree. I am in no way saying the truck driver was right by having drinks and getting in the car. But the limo drive never should have made that turn.
The truck driver tried to stop and there are huge tire marks to prove that. The guy I take the train with lives out there on weekends and drove right by there on his way back Sunday night and saw the marks himself. He is very familiar with the area and said it was a accident waiting to happen with the limos.
More needs to be looked into with the limo driver.
But again this is in no way saying the drinking part of the truck driver is ok.
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| Posted 7/24/15 2:03 PM |
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NervousNell
Just another chapter in life..
Member since 11/09 54921 total posts
Name:
..being a mommy and being a wife!
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Re: North Fork Crash
Posted by alli3131
Posted by 2BadSoSad
I get that it may have dropped, but I still think the responsibility for this crash lies with the limo driver.
I agree. I am in no way saying the truck driver was right by having drinks and getting in the car. But the limo drive never should have made that turn.
The truck driver tried to stop and there are huge tire marks to prove that. The guy I take the train with lives out there on weekends and drove right by there on his way back Sunday night and saw the marks himself. He is very familiar with the area and said it was a accident waiting to happen with the limos.
More needs to be looked into with the limo driver.
But again this is in no way saying the drinking part of the truck driver is ok.
I keep wondering if the driver of the truck had been stone cold sober, if the limo driver would be taking more heat.
I just have a feeling that even a sober person would have hit them- witnesses say the limo cut him off and turned right in front of him.
Message edited 7/24/2015 2:07:13 PM.
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| Posted 7/24/15 2:06 PM |
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jessnbrian
Only God knows His plan for us
Member since 4/13 7238 total posts
Name:
Jessica
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Re: North Fork Crash
Posted by NervousNell
Posted by alli3131
Posted by 2BadSoSad
I get that it may have dropped, but I still think the responsibility for this crash lies with the limo driver.
I agree. I am in no way saying the truck driver was right by having drinks and getting in the car. But the limo drive never should have made that turn.
The truck driver tried to stop and there are huge tire marks to prove that. The guy I take the train with lives out there on weekends and drove right by there on his way back Sunday night and saw the marks himself. He is very familiar with the area and said it was a accident waiting to happen with the limos.
More needs to be looked into with the limo driver.
But again this is in no way saying the drinking part of the truck driver is ok.
I keep wondering if the driver of the truck had been stone cold sober, if the limo driver would be taking more heat.
I just have a feeling that even a sober person would have hit them- witnesses say the limo cut him off and turned right in front of him.
I happen to agree. There's no way that limo driver should have been making a turn like that. If the truck driver were sober, this would ALL be falling on the limo driver's shoulders. I really don't think a sober driver would have been able to stop short enough to not hit them, maybe it wouldn't have been with such force, but I do believe they still would have hit them. Again, does not lessen the way I feel about drunk/buzzed driving, DON'T DO IT!
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| Posted 7/24/15 2:14 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: North Fork Crash
To me, I thought the opposite - the point of impact on the limo was in the center... there was a large area from the front of the limo, where it began, to the point of impact -- So, imagine it turning. Now, if the truck had hit where the limo driver was sitting yeah - then if you are the limo driver you are pulling out RIGHT in front of that truck with the truck at a close distance -- so he should have seen that truck and not gone.
But, since it was in the center, depending on the speed of the truck IMO the truck was the one that had the last clear chance to avoid --- steer out of the way, off the road, or slow down.
THAT is when I think the reaction time being that he was impaired by alcohol -- IMO at the time of impact legally drunk -- but either way, that is when I feel the reaction time is so crucial.
I'm not positive of the speed limit on that road but when I drive out to the vineyards, the main road we take, I know I usually drive about 35-40 mph -- not crazy fast by any means. For me, sober, driving that speed, on a straight road with NO bend like that intersection - meaning, full vision and sight view, I feel that I would have easily been able to stop, steer off the road - either to the side or to the median... or simply just hit the brakes and slowed down to allow the large limo to complete that turn. Mind you, it was also daytime - not at night.
Yesterday I was driving, going about 37 mph, I could see straight ahead, no curves in the road, nothing coming out of nowhere, etc --- a landscaping truck, large, with a huge tractor on the back was making a turn - it was too large to make it in one turn, he needed to go slow, then back up just a bit and complete it -- It really wasn't a big deal, I just slowed down, gave him a few extra seconds to do so and that was that. It reminded me of this situation. I see it a lot with large trucks, large vans, etc. that are just too large for our basic roads that were built a gabillion years ago. It's never a big deal - I slow down, it allows them to proceed.
When you operate a vehicle while intoxicated you are wrong regardless of what other traffic situations go on -- because, your reaction time and response will be completely hindered if you have been drinking - making the outcome totally different. And, bottom line, he didn't belong on the road that day so none of this would have ever happened. To me, it is that black and white.
Message edited 7/24/2015 2:17:47 PM.
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| Posted 7/24/15 2:16 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: North Fork Crash
Posted by seaside
Wow. OK--I am in. How can the average person get involved and help with this? I am so glad that you're able to educate all of us--I did not know any of this.
Reach out to your local legislatures.
Reach out to assemblymen/women.
Reach out to Senators -- whomever represent you, where you live.
Ask them to fight for tougher laws for those who attempt to leave the scene of ANY kind of crash - whether or not it results in injury and/or death - Ask them also to work on strengthening the penalties that exist in the current laws.
Phone calls, emails, letters, etc -- as many as you can.
That's the best you can do - in the meantime, I make a living out of working on this stuff.
ETA - happy to help. I educate and inform people about this stuff for my job. And I have a passion for what I do because it hits home for me.
Many people just don't realize a lot of this stuff and when they find out they become enraged at how ridiculous it is! Rightfully so.
Did you know that in NYS with sobriety checkpoints police are required to give the drivers driving up/through the checkpoint TWO -- TWOOOOO chances to avoid the checkpoint and turn off and/or drive away from it?
Now how in the world did that become a law and really?!?!
We place neon signs - like the huge billboard signs you see at construction work on the side of the roads -- we place those signs that say SOBRIETY CHECKPOINT AHEAD -- at least 1,200 feet ahead of the checkpoint -- with two or more options to turn left and/or right. 
And as scary as that sounds - what is even nuttier is that we get people who drive up, EVEN WITH THE SIGNAGE AND POSSIBILITY TO EXIT, and they are shit-faced!!!! That shows you how bad they are. And one guy - recently - that I was at a checkpoint when he was arrested for DUI -- because he was just below the limit at .07 -- he drove right up. Now that guy wouldn't have seen a limo up ahead if it was on FIRE. So, this is why I may see the crash out east differently than some.
Message edited 7/24/2015 2:24:51 PM.
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| Posted 7/24/15 2:20 PM |
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Aries14
Can't plan life...
Member since 8/08 2860 total posts
Name:
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North Fork Crash
most of the time hospitals will take blood sample before an IV. Especailly if drinking or drugs was suspected. He might not have even had an IV if there really wasnt any reason for it
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| Posted 7/24/15 2:22 PM |
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ndblovah
Be happy always
Member since 1/07 1880 total posts
Name:
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North Fork Crash
Does anyone know if speed was a factor too? It looks like it from how severe the impact was. I read there is question of cell phone usage too. Just so many awful factors.
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| Posted 7/24/15 2:25 PM |
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jessnbrian
Only God knows His plan for us
Member since 4/13 7238 total posts
Name:
Jessica
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Re: North Fork Crash
Posted by DaniJude
When you operate a vehicle while intoxicated you are wrong regardless of what other traffic situations go on -- because, your reaction time and response will be completely hindered if you have been drinking - making the outcome totally different. And, bottom line, he didn't belong on the road that day so none of this would have ever happened. To me, it is that black and white.
You make some valid points, and I don't disagree with them. However, sober drivers need to be more careful as well. We were talking earlier in this thread about how recklessly drivers have been behaving lately, this limo driver was being reckless, and that cannot be ignored either. I don't disagree with regards to driving while impaired, he should not have been on the road, but reckless driving is JUST as dangerous.
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| Posted 7/24/15 2:27 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: North Fork Crash
Posted by ndblovah
Does anyone know if speed was a factor too? It looks like it from how severe the impact was. I read there is question of cell phone usage too. Just so many awful factors.
Yeah from the impact and from what the people who were there told me, they are guesstimating around 57-61mph but they won't know for sure until the specialists look at everything - some cars even have a black box data recorder that will state the speed -- and they look at skid marks, tires, brakes, the filaments in the brake lights! It's crazy but they are able to determine it when they investigate.
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| Posted 7/24/15 2:27 PM |
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DaniJude
You're My Home <3
Member since 11/06 14815 total posts
Name:
Danielle
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Re: North Fork Crash
Posted by jessnbrian
Posted by DaniJude
When you operate a vehicle while intoxicated you are wrong regardless of what other traffic situations go on -- because, your reaction time and response will be completely hindered if you have been drinking - making the outcome totally different. And, bottom line, he didn't belong on the road that day so none of this would have ever happened. To me, it is that black and white.
You make some valid points, and I don't disagree with them. However, sober drivers need to be more careful as well. We were talking earlier in this thread about how recklessly drivers have been behaving lately, this limo driver was being reckless, and that cannot be ignored either. I don't disagree with regards to driving while impaired, he should not have been on the road, but reckless driving is JUST as dangerous.
Yes - there are so many dangers on the road - reckless, drugged, drunk, distracted. All are dangerous in their own way.
I guess I don't see it as being AS reckless because I usually go by the requirements for getting a reckless driving conviction as per the law -- to which what the limo driver did does not fall under. So, to me, reckless is behavior that would fall under that and forgive me for not having that verbiage in front of me but I have heard it many times. I think that is because the u-turn itself was not an illegal u-turn - it was just the turning in front of a car that was coming - but that is open to a lot of factors: the truck, how fast was it going? a car going the speed limit can easily take the last clear chance to avoid or slow down -- a car speeding then becomes either mostly or partially to blame because since they were going fast they gave up that last clear chance to avoid -- and add alcohol into that and forget it. So, this is why there are a lot of different factors to this and when the speed of that truck is identified I think it will help a lot.
The truck driver had not just one but two reckless - by the definition in NYS - wrongdoings that day: speeding, because even though we don't know the exact speed, we know he was going above the limit, and DUI - under the influence - so, to me that's two strikes vs. the limo driver who at the MOST has one strike but not necessarily a full one being that it doesn't really fall under the definition of reckless.
If the u-turn was an illegal turn that would probably add to it.
The points of impact will matter a lot too.
The whole thing is just horrible.
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| Posted 7/24/15 2:33 PM |
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BargainMama
LIF Adult
Member since 5/09 15657 total posts
Name:
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North Fork Crash
My understanding....from someone who was recently at the same vineyard in a limo and made that same turn....is the limos turn left blocking the whole road, then back up on an angle because they can't clear the corner otherwise. Makes sense when you see where the truck hit the car.
I also question how the truck driver was even charged to begin with if he supposedly refused a breathalyzer test? I understand he failed a field sobriety test, but depending on his injuries, someone who just sustained a crash like that sober would probably also fail. I dunno, I'm not defending him, but like I have said over and over, change him to not have a couple of beers that day, and the accident still would've happened due to the reckless nature of the limo driver. Still hoping he is charged. If this goes to trial, this will be a tough one for the jury IMO.
Message edited 7/24/2015 4:36:14 PM.
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| Posted 7/24/15 4:33 PM |
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ave1024
I Took The Wrong Road
Member since 12/07 6153 total posts
Name:
That Led To The Wrong Tendencies
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Re: North Fork Crash
Posted by BargainMama
is the limos turn left blocking the whole road, then back up on an angle because they can't clear the corner otherwise.
Drunk guy aside... any limo that has to back up to clear a U-Turn on a road where cars do 50+ MPH is making a VERY dangerous play.
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| Posted 7/24/15 4:48 PM |
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jessnbrian
Only God knows His plan for us
Member since 4/13 7238 total posts
Name:
Jessica
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Re: North Fork Crash
Posted by ave1024
Posted by BargainMama
is the limos turn left blocking the whole road, then back up on an angle because they can't clear the corner otherwise.
Drunk guy aside... any limo that has to back up to clear a U-Turn on a road where cars do 50+ MPH is making a VERY dangerous play.
this is my point. It was reckless behavior on the part of the limo. The road's speed limit on most areas is 55, if I remember correctly, and it's very difficult to stop short when that happens.
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| Posted 7/24/15 4:52 PM |
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ElizaRags35
My 2 Girls
Member since 2/09 20494 total posts
Name:
Me
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North Fork Crash
They are both to blame. The limo driver for making that u-turn and the truck driver for getting behind the wheel after drinking, even if his BAC was below the legal limit, if it even was at the time of the accident. He was still impaired. Like a PP said, it was a perfect storm.
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| Posted 7/24/15 5:05 PM |
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sunnyplus3
:)
Member since 11/05 8749 total posts
Name:
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North Fork Crash
I'm blown away by how many people drive after a few beers or drinks.
Just last night I had one glas of wine with dinner and walked to my civic association meeting rather than drive three blocks.
I cannot fathom getting behind the wheel under the influence.
On the flip side I do think some untruths have been told about the limo driver. One of the very first witnesses is someone I used to work with, she was quoted in one article but no others. She stated the truck driver was sitting on the tailgate of his truck drinking a bottle of water looking devastated, waiting for police to "come and get him". I think he walked away, but it's my understanding it was after speaking to police. I can understand him wandering off, I can't even imagine what it must be like to be involved in a crash like that! Not defending him, just saying that the limo driver with the special license to drive cars with passengers also needs to be held accountable for making a jackass move that killed four innocent people and ruined many lives!
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| Posted 7/24/15 5:13 PM |
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