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LaurenExp
Waiting patiently for baby sis
Member since 8/06 11613 total posts
Name:
L-Diddy EDD 11/11/11 :)
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by LaurenExp
I know exactly what you're saying, but I think most pro-lifers view it as, who is giving that embryo/fetus the choice? The point is, that "baby" doesn't have a voice. So, people feel like they have to be the voice for that child...being that most certainly that child would not choose to be aborted.
I'm not saying I'm a pro-lifer, I'm just saying that this is why their views make sense to me.
there are far worse things that can happen to an unwanted baby than an abortion.
I agree 1000%, but I think what you would hope is that that child would end up going up for adoption. Thousands of families are looking for a baby that cant have their own.
Again, I'm not saying I'm pro-life, I happen to be pro-choice, I'm just saying I understand the viewpoint. We just all need to have open minds and respect each other's opinions.
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Posted 6/10/08 12:30 PM  |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by LaurenExp
We just all need to have open minds and respect each other's opinions.
absolutely...we ALL need to respect each other, no matter what our views are. 
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:32 PM |
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HoneyBadger
YourWorstNightmare.
Member since 10/06 15979 total posts
Name:
BahBahBlackJeep
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by LaurenExp
Posted by Jennie0898
Posted by Tilde
Posted by Jennie0898
I get that personally someone who has had a baby could change their mind. Heck, people change their minds about a lot of things.
BUT, I don't understand how ANY woman would be willing to GIVE UP HER RIGHT to CHOOSE what to do with HER BODY.
You don't have to be in favor of abortion, but what give ANYONE the right to TELL SOMEONE ELSE what they can do with theirs?
Forgive me if I don't explain this clearly - I am not sure how to word it without being offensive.
I am NOT giving up the right to choose what happens to my body. I CHOOSE to not get pregnant, and if an accident happens I CHOOSE to not have an abortion.
All women are welcome to the same choices. They can all make decisions to avoid unwanted pregnancy. Nothing is 100% though so if you can't accept a child into your life - then you shouldn't have sex. That doesn't mean you have to be married or over a certain age.
Okay, so there is a small percentage of women who get pregnant after being raped. I struggle with that part of it. . . which is why earlier I said I am 10% unsure. In my mind, a baby is a life from the point of conception so I can't even feel like it is okay in that situation because it is not the baby's fault. . .
I hope I made sense!
You absolutely made sense, but from what I read, that's YOUR belief.
My stand is that while *I* may never want to abort a pregnancy (planned or not) I would not want the right for *someone else* to make a different decision. KWIM?
I know exactly what you're saying, but I think most pro-lifers view it as, who is giving that embryo/fetus the choice? The point is, that "baby" doesn't have a voice. So, people feel like they have to be the voice for that child...being that most certainly that child would not choose to be aborted.
I'm not saying I'm a pro-lifer, I'm just saying that this is why their views make sense to me.
I do understand the line of reasoning, however, I don't agree. But thank you for posting that, I didn't realize that was the stance PLs take. I thought it was more to do with it being a sin or that they felt it was killing a life. I didn't realize there was another POV.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:32 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by shiv
and yes, I have seen a sonogram of an abortion and it was real. I'm sure you can find a copy at the local right-to-life office if you would like to see for yourself.
see, this is why I couldn't trust that.
a right to life office has an agenda, and their paraphernalia supports it.
I work for the govt and worked peripherally on the PBA case.
is it gruesome. YES. would I do it? I pray to God I won't be in that position.
but once the topic ends with me personally, I cannot in good faith extend my personal views to the public domain.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:32 PM |
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maybebaby
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 6870 total posts
Name:
Maureen
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by LaurenExp
I know exactly what you're saying, but I think most pro-lifers view it as, who is giving that embryo/fetus the choice? The point is, that "baby" doesn't have a voice. So, people feel like they have to be the voice for that child...being that most certainly that child would not choose to be aborted.
I'm not saying I'm a pro-lifer, I'm just saying that this is why their views make sense to me.
there are far worse things that can happen to an unwanted baby than an abortion.
But in my view, that isn't true. I mean, yes...an unwanted baby could lead a very hard life...but so could a "wanted" baby depending on circumstances.
And many children who were born yet unwanted have triumphed over obstacles and hardships and become great people in society...
Just showing a different viewpoint.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:34 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by LaurenExp
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by LaurenExp
I know exactly what you're saying, but I think most pro-lifers view it as, who is giving that embryo/fetus the choice? The point is, that "baby" doesn't have a voice. So, people feel like they have to be the voice for that child...being that most certainly that child would not choose to be aborted.
I'm not saying I'm a pro-lifer, I'm just saying that this is why their views make sense to me.
there are far worse things that can happen to an unwanted baby than an abortion.
I agree 1000%, but I think what you would hope is that that child would end up going up for adoption. Thousands of families are looking for a baby that cant have their own.
Again, I'm not saying I'm pro-life, I happen to be pro-choice, I'm just saying I understand the viewpoint. We just all need to have open minds and respect each other's opinions.
I know that too.
but you do you know the statistics on adoption in this country?
how many children are left in agencies and foster care? becoming wards of the court?
it's not that simple. it's not a simple as saying "out the child up for adoption" b/c that isn't always a better option.
if my choice was to end my pregnancy at the beginning stages or wait, put it up for adoption, KNOWING the horrors the child could face?????
who am I to say what guilt someone else can live with?
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:35 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by maybebaby
But in my view, that isn't true. I mean, yes...an unwanted baby could lead a very hard life...but so could a "wanted" baby depending on circumstances.
And many children who were born yet unwanted have triumphed over obstacles and hardships and become great people in society...
Just showing a different viewpoint.
your hopeful outlook is just that...the realities of these situations are grim and gruesome.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:36 PM |
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
"Lake of Fire" is an excellent documentary on abortion. It does not take a stance on either front, but presents a lot of information in a cinematically engaging way (its available on demand via netflix too)
there is some horrifying imagery, fair warning, but if you want some unbiased info/films of stuff, this is a great place to find it
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:36 PM |
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Kidsaplenty
Sister love
Member since 2/06 5971 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by shiv
and yes, I have seen a sonogram of an abortion and it was real. I'm sure you can find a copy at the local right-to-life office if you would like to see for yourself.
If you are referring to the "Silent Scream" viedo, that was proven to be a fake.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:37 PM |
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shiv
Twinsanity!!
Member since 5/07 4747 total posts
Name:
Shiv
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by shiv
and yes, I have seen a sonogram of an abortion and it was real. I'm sure you can find a copy at the local right-to-life office if you would like to see for yourself.
see, this is why I couldn't trust that.
a right to life office has an agenda, and their paraphernalia supports it.
I work for the govt and worked peripherally on the PBA case.
is it gruesome. YES. would I do it? I pray to God I won't be in that position.
but once the topic ends with me personally, I cannot in good faith extend my personal views to the public domain.
The video is used as a way of showing that the child does feel pain and wants to survive. I don't see anything wrong with trusting that. Women go there looking for answers and they don't lie to them. They use real facts to support the right-to-life.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:37 PM |
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LaurenExp
Waiting patiently for baby sis
Member since 8/06 11613 total posts
Name:
L-Diddy EDD 11/11/11 :)
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by LaurenExp
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by LaurenExp
I know exactly what you're saying, but I think most pro-lifers view it as, who is giving that embryo/fetus the choice? The point is, that "baby" doesn't have a voice. So, people feel like they have to be the voice for that child...being that most certainly that child would not choose to be aborted.
I'm not saying I'm a pro-lifer, I'm just saying that this is why their views make sense to me.
there are far worse things that can happen to an unwanted baby than an abortion.
I agree 1000%, but I think what you would hope is that that child would end up going up for adoption. Thousands of families are looking for a baby that cant have their own.
Again, I'm not saying I'm pro-life, I happen to be pro-choice, I'm just saying I understand the viewpoint. We just all need to have open minds and respect each other's opinions.
I know that too.
but you do you know the statistics on adoption in this country?
how many children are left in agencies and foster care? becoming wards of the court?
it's not that simple. it's not a simple as saying "out the child up for adoption" b/c that isn't always a better option.
if my choice was to end my pregnancy at the beginning stages or wait, put it up for adoption, KNOWING the horrors the child could face?????
who am I to say what guilt someone else can live with?
I guess at the end of the day, the point is that child never got to choose what it wanted.
Believe me, I have a friend who was a foster mother who just got to actually adopt her child after 5.5 years of trying. She has seen all the horrors of the foster care system. It is astonishing what people are able to do to their children, but would be arrested if they did it to a stranger. So you're right, there are absolutely worse situations a child could be in. But I guess...what is worse than death?
I'm just playing devil's advocate with you. As I said, I would never, ever have an abortion, especially with all of my IF struggles, but I do believe that any woman should have the right to do with her own body what she chooses. Because on the other side of it, if that embryo wasn't in her body, could it sustain itself in the outside world? Absolutely not.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:39 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by shiv
Women go there looking for answers and they don't lie to them. They use real facts to support the right-to-life.
that is a falsehood. just so you know.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:39 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by shiv
They use real facts to support the right-to-life.
IMHO, they use "facts" to support their agenda.....
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:40 PM |
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maybebaby
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 6870 total posts
Name:
Maureen
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by shiv
Women go there looking for answers and they don't lie to them. They use real facts to support the right-to-life.
that is a falsehood. just so you know.
I know nothing about these videos.....but a fetus DOES feel pain at some point! I do not know the exact time, but it most certainly does have nerve endings and pain receptors fully functioning by a certain point of gestation. There is no arguing those facts...WHEN it occurs is another story..I honestly have no clue.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:42 PM |
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JennZ
MY LIFE!!
Member since 8/05 25463 total posts
Name:
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
It's sad that a simple question could turn into such a hot mess. All that was needed was a pro-life or pro-choice answer. Then you get people who CAN'T see others OPINIONS and take it to 5 pages of back and forth nonsense.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:43 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by LaurenExp
I guess at the end of the day, the point is that child never got to choose what it wanted.
Believe me, I have a friend who was a foster mother who just got to actually adopt her child after 5.5 years of trying. She has seen all the horrors of the foster care system. It is astonishing what people are able to do to their children, but would be arrested if they did it to a stranger. So you're right, there are absolutely worse situations a child could be in. But I guess...what is worse than death?
I'm just playing devil's advocate with you. As I said, I would never, ever have an abortion, especially with all of my IF struggles, but I do believe that any woman should have the right to do with her own body what she chooses. Because on the other side of it, if that embryo wasn't in her body, could it sustain itself in the outside world? Absolutely not.
I understand. and I understand why people have such strong PERSONAL feelings.
but we need to learn to take ourselves out of the equation sometimes.
as long as the child is under the "care" of it's parent (or whomever) it doesn't have a "choice"
not when it's being beaten. sodomized, raped, burned, shaken.
there is no choice there either.
but good GOD how that stays with you, if you "survive" that.
I'd rather be aborted before I knew what love is...rather than be born, never get it, and be beaten to death by the person that sustained me.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:43 PM |
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maybebaby
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 6870 total posts
Name:
Maureen
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
See...these are where these threads turn nasty...
Most people on here are pro choice and that is fine! But when someone pro life tries to explain why they are that way, then the claws come out...I mean, why can't people accept that this is our view and that is that?? I am not picketing and screaming in faces and showing gruesome pictures to prove my values...so why not accept it??
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:44 PM |
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KGools
Happy
Member since 9/06 9532 total posts
Name:
Kim
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by JennZ
It's sad that a simple question could turn into such a hot mess. All that was needed was a pro-life or pro-choice answer. Then you get people who CAN'T see others OPINIONS and take it to 5 pages of back and forth nonsense.
I don't see this as a hot mess at all (yet). I'm pro-choice but I'm definitely enjoying hearing other people's views and opinions on the subject beyond "I'm pro-life" "I'm pro-choice". We would never learn if we didn't give people the opportunity to voice their opinions and what they know.
Until it turns into a mud-flinging name-calling debate, enjoy it while it lasts and take in all of the information.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:45 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by maybebaby
See...these are where these threads turn nasty...
Most people on here are pro choice and that is fine! But when someone pro life tries to explain why they are that way, then the claws come out...I mean, why can't people accept that this is our view and that is that?? I am not picketing and screaming in faces and showing gruesome pictures to prove my values...so why not accept it??
the only ugliness I saw was the reference to being a murderer. or supporting MURDER.
I think at that point, I have a right to speak my mind about things. 
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:47 PM |
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GioiaMia
Let's Go Rangers!
Member since 1/07 14818 total posts
Name:
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by JennZ
It's sad that a simple question could turn into such a hot mess. All that was needed was a pro-life or pro-choice answer. Then you get people who CAN'T see others OPINIONS and take it to 5 pages of back and forth nonsense.
I disagree. I learned a lot from this thread. I think everyone has made some great points!
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:48 PM |
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pinkandblue
Our family is complete, maybe
Member since 9/05 32436 total posts
Name:
Stephanie
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by maybebaby
See...these are where these threads turn nasty...
Most people on here are pro choice and that is fine! But when someone pro life tries to explain why they are that way, then the claws come out...I mean, why can't people accept that this is our view and that is that?? I am not picketing and screaming in faces and showing gruesome pictures to prove my values...so why not accept it??
I accept and respect your views. Even though they are different from my own.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:48 PM |
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maybebaby
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 6870 total posts
Name:
Maureen
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by maybebaby
See...these are where these threads turn nasty...
Most people on here are pro choice and that is fine! But when someone pro life tries to explain why they are that way, then the claws come out...I mean, why can't people accept that this is our view and that is that?? I am not picketing and screaming in faces and showing gruesome pictures to prove my values...so why not accept it??
the only ugliness I saw was the reference to being a murderer. or supporting MURDER.
I think at that point, I have a right to speak my mind about things.
Of course you do! I never used that word...and I didn't read it, I guess I missed it??
I was referring to the fact that when someone answers who is pro life and they state why they are, there are often remarks from others as to falsehoods, the agenda of pro life campaigns etc...I mean, we obviously have strong feelings about it to be told it's all false or wrong or whatever you want to call it is not right..that is how i feel.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:49 PM |
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LaurenExp
Waiting patiently for baby sis
Member since 8/06 11613 total posts
Name:
L-Diddy EDD 11/11/11 :)
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by Ophelia
I understand. and I understand why people have such strong PERSONAL feelings.
but we need to learn to take ourselves out of the equation sometimes.
as long as the child is under the "care" of it's parent (or whomever) it doesn't have a "choice"
not when it's being beaten. sodomized, raped, burned, shaken.
there is no choice there either.
but good GOD how that stays with you, if you "survive" that.
I'd rather be aborted before I knew what love is...rather than be born, never get it, and be beaten to death by the person that sustained me.
Point absolutely taken, but again...you CHOOSE to never have been born rather than to deal with the system of foster care or abusive parents. With all the free clinics out there, I'm sure these people who are beating and killing their kids CHOSE to sustain that life. They could just as easily had an abortion. So abortion is not the answer to the gruesome reality of the foster care system or abused kids. Its frightening to me that you need a license to own a pet, but you don't need anything to have a child. And these people are having kids, abusing them and neglecting them. Again, they didn't have an abortion. And they had every right to.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:51 PM |
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maybebaby
LIF Adult
Member since 11/05 6870 total posts
Name:
Maureen
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by stephanief
Posted by maybebaby
See...these are where these threads turn nasty...
Most people on here are pro choice and that is fine! But when someone pro life tries to explain why they are that way, then the claws come out...I mean, why can't people accept that this is our view and that is that?? I am not picketing and screaming in faces and showing gruesome pictures to prove my values...so why not accept it??
I accept and respect your views. Even though they are different from my own.
Thank you. I do very much appreciate that, and I feel the same to you...and everyone else on this board!! For the most part people are very respectful and it's refreshing to see.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:51 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: Not sure if this was done before - are you pro-life or pro-choice?
Posted by maybebaby
Posted by Ophelia
Posted by maybebaby
See...these are where these threads turn nasty...
Most people on here are pro choice and that is fine! But when someone pro life tries to explain why they are that way, then the claws come out...I mean, why can't people accept that this is our view and that is that?? I am not picketing and screaming in faces and showing gruesome pictures to prove my values...so why not accept it??
the only ugliness I saw was the reference to being a murderer. or supporting MURDER.
I think at that point, I have a right to speak my mind about things.
Of course you do! I never used that word...and I didn't read it, I guess I missed it??
I was referring to the fact that when someone answers who is pro life and they state why they are, there are often remarks from others as to falsehoods, the agenda of pro life campaigns etc...I mean, we obviously have strong feelings about it to be told it's all false or wrong or whatever you want to call it is not right..that is how i feel.
perhaps you are right. but it has been proven that there are pro "life" centers that DO fabricate "evidence" to scare the heck out of people.
I don't trust ANYONE that is for or against either way, you know.
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| Posted 6/10/08 12:51 PM |
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