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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by emilylives
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by annoyedTTCer
So, what is wrong with that?
Where is it written that everyone is entitled to what the 1% has?
Would rather work hard and get as close to that 1% as possible versus those sitting back expecting things to be handed to them.
My question, though, is what makes the 1% 'entitled' to what they have? Do you really think every billionaire, millionaire, etc. is THAT MUCH smarter or better than the rest of the country?
And for those saying 'well, life's not fair', that's fine and dandy. But we are ENTITLED to protest (peacefully) that which we find unfair, and we are ENTITLED to start a conversation about how to make it MORE fair (equitable, whatever word you want to use).
My question is, how is asking for adequate housing and healthcare the same as asking to be part of the 1%?
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Posted 10/17/11 6:45 PM  |
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Long Island Weddings
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DiamondGirl
You are my I love you
Member since 7/09 18802 total posts
Name:
DiamondMama
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by DirtyBlonde
Last time:
Posted by Hofstra26
What does it matter whose salary is paying it?
By your flawed logic, it totally matters. Your words :
Posted by Hofstra26
I don't think everyone should be "entitled" (for lack of a better word) to the same things. (healthcare, housing, etc.) Some people have more valuable skills, more education, work harder, better luck, etc. etc. and as such should be compensated for that.
You don't pay. You don't draw a salary. You are entitled - by your logic - to nothing.
I don't want to go back and forth because you're incapable of understanding anything outside of your own experience.
I hope you're so wrong. That it WILL change and change (for once) for the better for everyone.
So over this thread. 
If I were you I would be too. I hope the bubble you live in never pops because I am not sure you would be equipped to live in the real world.
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| Posted 10/17/11 8:04 PM |
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nrthshgrl
It goes fast. Pay attention.
Member since 7/05 57538 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by Ophelia
Hofstra, I am going to pray for you. pray that all of your great decisions pay off. b/c I feel like you think it could never happen to you b/c you are so smart and awesome. I am not sure if that is how you really feel or if it's just how you are coming off.
but I just can't help but think that you wouldn't be so cocksure if you were part of the some that were completely effed right now.
it SHOULD change. people should not be homeless. sick and dying with no access to simple medicines that could save them.
it won't b/c those that have see no need for things to change. and that is were we fail as a society.
First, I don't think I am great and awesome. I am realistic. Realistic about the world around me. Wouldn't it be lovely if there was no homelessness and no illness and no poverty?? Of course but that is a pipe dream. Since the dawn of man there has been no equity, no fairness for all. Life just doesn't work out that way. So to go on and on that it's not fair and everyone should be afforded the same opportunities is a wasted argument and a waste of time because that doesn't help fix the problems our country is facing nor is that an attainable goal. It just isn't.
I also understand all of the replies regarding homeless vets and those who lost their jobs but how naive to think there aren't people that abuse the system. Those are the people I was referring to and I do take issue with having to support people in our society that take, take, take but don't contribute. And there are PLENTY of those people. Not everyone but they are out there. So to go back at me constantly as if rotten people don't exist in our society is just ridiculous. Those are the people I am speaking about, not a homeless vet or some guy down on his luck because he lost his job through no fault of his own.
As far as your first statement, of course anything can happen to anyone. If my DH lost his job, which luckily due to the nature of his job or position is not likely although possible as is anything in life, we'd be screwed like everyone else. I would lose my house in a month. I made a choice to be a SAHM and give up my salary so things are tight for us and we couldn't afford for him to lose his job. I am no different than anone else on this board. Luckily for us, things seem secure but I don't think I think I am better than anyone else and I don't think anything I said should have given that impression. You have continually misread what I was saying.
If you were truly realistic about things, you'd recognize that being a lay off and a month away from losing your house and paying a fortune for health insurance is EXACTLY one of the issues OWS is trying to bring attention to.
I layoff & terminate people at my job at least once a month. I hear the devastation in their voice when the reality has just sunk in. I had a 35 year old with a new baby cry on the phone & ask me how he was going to pay his mortgage. This is a very scary time to be unemployed - for those just out of college & those that are hanging on to their jobs. You throw in an elderly parent that needs full-time nursing care & most of us would be totally screwed.
Message edited 10/17/2011 10:45:59 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/11 8:33 PM |
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bookworm
Two Little Rosebuds
Member since 8/09 2106 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't someone JUST post here today that despite ongoing layoffs and cutbacks at her job the CEO was awarded $90 million?
Like when the upper administration in my district sat around and agreed to give themselves fat raises while they strung the low-wage paraprofessionals up for a pay freeze 2 years in a row.
Or when the bloated administrators at the hospital where my husband used to work sat on their 7 figure salaries (paying them to forward emails rather than actually contribute to patient care) while they slashed techs and other support staff in order to make the hospital profitable.
I think that's what they're protesting. CEOs and rich people don't have the market cornered on hard work and education. Power and influence is more like it.
People should be mad about it. It's sad how many people bicker and vote against their own self-interests.
Message edited 10/17/2011 8:38:44 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/11 8:37 PM |
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violet5
LIF Infant
Member since 7/11 54 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
wow. a lot of this thread has me speechless.
Message edited 4/12/2012 12:33:24 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/11 8:38 PM |
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
I hate that photograph
It is ridiculous.
People have no idea. And to say that it someone's own bad decision that would lead them to unemployment shows how clueless they are.
Whoopee for people who are "OK". I am too. But it can change in an INSTANT..
And I agree that I can't believe the lack of compassion people have.
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| Posted 10/17/11 8:40 PM |
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by JenniferEver
The problem is that you're making as assumption that that opportunity is there. That "American Dream" exists, when in fact it does NOT exist. We were told it was true all of our lives, and you know what? Maybe some people did take out larger school loans for advanced degrees or didn't work 2 jobs in favor of better grades at a more competitive school because all along haven't we all been told it would pay off? Be good, get good grades, go to school, and you will get a good job. I don't think anyone is saying "So I got my bachelor's degree, where is my $100K job?"
I disagree with this point...DH's company is interviewing THESE kids now for incoming positions for next year...and the one kid couldn't answer a simple industry question because, "I was up late at a party"...there is NO black and white here..for every person who is struggling and actively looking for ANY work, there IS the person who is entitled and thinks they should make 60K out of the gate...either way, we cannot keep our heads in the sand...
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| Posted 10/17/11 8:46 PM |
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Hofstra26
Love to Bake!
Member since 7/06 27915 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by nrthshgrl
Posted by Hofstra26
Posted by Ophelia
Hofstra, I am going to pray for you. pray that all of your great decisions pay off. b/c I feel like you think it could never happen to you b/c you are so smart and awesome. I am not sure if that is how you really feel or if it's just how you are coming off.
but I just can't help but think that you wouldn't be so cocksure if you were part of the some that were completely effed right now.
it SHOULD change. people should not be homeless. sick and dying with no access to simple medicines that could save them.
it won't b/c those that have see no need for things to change. and that is were we fail as a society.
First, I don't think I am great and awesome. I am realistic. Realistic about the world around me. Wouldn't it be lovely if there was no homelessness and no illness and no poverty?? Of course but that is a pipe dream. Since the dawn of man there has been no equity, no fairness for all. Life just doesn't work out that way. So to go on and on that it's not fair and everyone should be afforded the same opportunities is a wasted argument and a waste of time because that doesn't help fix the problems our country is facing nor is that an attainable goal. It just isn't.
I also understand all of the replies regarding homeless vets and those who lost their jobs but how naive to think there aren't people that abuse the system. Those are the people I was referring to and I do take issue with having to support people in our society that take, take, take but don't contribute. And there are PLENTY of those people. Not everyone but they are out there. So to go back at me constantly as if rotten people don't exist in our society is just ridiculous. Those are the people I am speaking about, not a homeless vet or some guy down on his luck because he lost his job through no fault of his own.
As far as your first statement, of course anything can happen to anyone. If my DH lost his job, which luckily due to the nature of his job or position is not likely although possible as is anything in life, we'd be screwed like everyone else. I would lose my house in a month. I made a choice to be a SAHM and give up my salary so things are tight for us and we couldn't afford for him to lose his job. I am no different than anone else on this board. Luckily for us, things seem secure but I don't think I think I am better than anyone else and I don't think anything I said should have given that impression. You have continually misread what I was saying.
If you were truly realistic about things, you'd recognize that being a lay off away from losing your house (in a month) and paying a fortune for health insurance is EXACTLY one of the issues OWS is trying to bring attention to.
I layoff & terminate people at my job at least once a month. I hear the devastation in their voice when the reality has just sunk in. I had a 35 year old with a new baby cry on the phone & ask me how he was going to pay his mortgage. This is a very scary time to be unemployed - for those just out of college & those that are hanging on to their jobs. You throw in an elderly parent that needs full-time nursing care & most of us would be totally screwed.
I think the reality is many, many people live paycheck to paycheck and not just in this day and age and economy but throughout generations. My grandparents hardly got by, my DH's parents barely scraped by, when my parents were younger they could barely afford groceries when they first got married. I think that trying to get by and take care of your own is a struggle for not only us today, but for all generations. Every generation has their hurdles to overcome. The current state of the economy is our hurdle but I'm not a doomsday person. I feel like even when things seem at their worst somehow, someway things turn around. It won't be like this forever, it will get better. How, I don't know. I don't have all the answers but I'm not convinced that anyone sitting on Wall Street does either. They are fed up, we all are, but they aren't offering any viable solutions.
My original post was simply stating that although I get their aggravation over the state of things I'm not really seeing a clear message or solution. I just don't see what the point is of camping out on Wall Street. How will that implement change? How will that help? Everyone is getting so caught up in one small comment I made which was in reference to an article someone posted a link to. I disagreed with something the author said and I commented on it. I do stand by what I said but spinning off a debate on healthcare was not my intention.
Realistically, I am well aware that I am one paycheck away from losing everything. But it's a choice I made when I left teaching and gave up a full salary so I could be home to raise my DD. I made things harder on us but we both agreed that my being home was more important than money. Things continue to get a little easier each month and year and I am fortunate that my DH's job is pretty solid. I try not to worry about what I cannot control, all my DH can do is work hard and make himself as invaluable as he can to his company while we continue to pay off our debts, save, and get ourselves in a better place financially.
Hopefully over the next few years things start to turn around. I believe they will. Somehow, someway.
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| Posted 10/17/11 8:58 PM |
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Babymakin
LIF Adult
Member since 12/10 920 total posts
Name:
Sarah
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by Hofstra26
My original post was simply stating that although I get their aggravation over the state of things I'm not really seeing a clear message or solution.
Well said. There is no CLEAR message.
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| Posted 10/17/11 9:25 PM |
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ap123
LIF Infant
Member since 10/10 268 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
I'm shocked to read that people think healthcare should be a basic right. Who pays for that? In NYC, LI and Westchester, it's those Wall Street workers that everyone loves to hate that pay the big taxes. Not the CEOs, but the average 25-45 year olds who work hard every day just like everyone else. The difference is they make more money so they get hit with the alternative minimum tax.
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| Posted 10/17/11 9:48 PM |
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Cheeks24
Living a dream
Member since 1/08 8589 total posts
Name:
Cheeks
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by VanderZwang
Occupy wall street has NO cohesive message yet.
They are loud. They are ******. They are mad THEY dont have what others have.
But there is no cohesive message yet.
There is no demand from them yet. There is no message of WHAT THEY WANT.
(And I will say that a blanket "we want change" and "we want jobs" is not a deamnd)
I have no debt either. Not one dollar except for my car. My DH has no debt.
We have worked hard. Nothing was given to us. We both DO have new cars and Ipads tho But we worked hard and bought what we could AFFORD.
ETA: I know that people who have done all the right things are struggling too with lost jobs etc. It could me next week. I get that. If not, my neighbor, my cousin....OWS has gotten us talking, at the minimum about the economy.
There is no clear message. I get what the main theme is. I agree that corporate greed is out of control and these corporations SHOULD be taxed properly. It's only fair. And I do agree we worked hard to for what we have too!
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| Posted 10/17/11 9:53 PM |
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MandJZ
Time for Baby #2!
Member since 8/10 4194 total posts
Name:
M
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by ap123
I'm shocked to read that people think healthcare should be a basic right. Who pays for that? In NYC, LI and Westchester, it's those Wall Street workers that everyone loves to hate that pay the big taxes. Not the CEOs, but the average 25-45 year olds who work hard every day just like everyone else. The difference is they make more money so they get hit with the alternative minimum tax.
I don't think the 'average 25-45 year olds' are who the protest is targeting. It IS about the CEOs and those high enough up to have had a hand in what is happening with the economy now, those people who get $90 million a year and utilize loopholes within the tax system to underpay. The average worker, even if s/he works on Wall St., is not part of the 1% that the OWS protesters are speaking about.
As for who pays for healthcare, I don't work on Wall St., neither does my DH, and we both pay for our healthcare. Further, I'm Canadian, and back home health care is recognized as a basic right, and is provided to everyone through higher taxes (relative to income) on all.
ETA: ON THE TOPIC OF HEALTHCARE AS A BASIC RIGHT
...not to  but I figured it was worth posting here for people to read.
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 25:
"(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment , sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control."
Message edited 10/17/2011 10:17:36 PM.
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| Posted 10/17/11 10:10 PM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
that's for humans, we're AMERICANS.
get your ans right, lady.
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| Posted 10/17/11 10:22 PM |
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emilylives
biking
Member since 12/09 2163 total posts
Name:
Emily
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by MandJZ
Posted by ap123
I'm shocked to read that people think healthcare should be a basic right. Who pays for that? In NYC, LI and Westchester, it's those Wall Street workers that everyone loves to hate that pay the big taxes. Not the CEOs, but the average 25-45 year olds who work hard every day just like everyone else. The difference is they make more money so they get hit with the alternative minimum tax.
I don't think the 'average 25-45 year olds' are who the protest is targeting. It IS about the CEOs and those high enough up to have had a hand in what is happening with the economy now, those people who get $90 million a year and utilize loopholes within the tax system to underpay. The average worker, even if s/he works on Wall St., is not part of the 1% that the OWS protesters are speaking about.
As for who pays for healthcare, I don't work on Wall St., neither does my DH, and we both pay for our healthcare. Further, I'm Canadian, and back home health care is recognized as a basic right, and is provided to everyone through higher taxes (relative to income) on all.
ETA: ON THE TOPIC OF HEALTHCARE AS A BASIC RIGHT
...not to but I figured it was worth posting here for people to read.
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 25:
"(1) Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services, and the right to security in the event of unemployment , sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond his control."
I think it's sad when posting the Universal Declaration of Human Rights could be viewed as !!!! (Thanks for posting it, by the way. It's been on my mind a lot today, reading these threads.)
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| Posted 10/17/11 10:30 PM |
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TessMike214
Gabriella Aubrey born 3/26!
Member since 5/10 2440 total posts
Name:
Tess
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
all I have to say is
F-U SALLIE MAE!!
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| Posted 10/17/11 10:33 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
I think those of us who are a little younger have it a bit easier right now. People in my mom's age bracket (baby boomers) are really hurting. I know many of my mom's friends who watched their 401Ks that they were encouraged to contribute heavily to dwindle to less than what they contributed. I watch them struggle to become gainfully employed. Age discrimination may be illegal but let's face reality, just like an employer may find a reason not to hire a pregnant woman, they're finding reasons not to hire older workers ('overqualified' gets thrown around a lot). Older workers also tend to have higher healthcare costs. Many are going through their 2nd time of this, having been hit hard in the late 80's/early 90's. They may have loans from schools they were encouraged to attend for retraining.
Some of them will NEVER be able to retire. That is sad to me.
This isn't all just a bunch of whiny college kids.
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| Posted 10/17/11 10:39 PM |
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ap123
LIF Infant
Member since 10/10 268 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
You are probably right that most of Wall Street is not the 1%, but with protesters holding up signs that say 'forgive my 90k in college debt' and 'i have not healthcare', it's hard to tell who they are fighting. I'd say they are protesting against those of us who have no interest in paying extra taxes to provide everyone with medical insurance, and those of us who think if you take a college loan, you should pay it back.
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| Posted 10/17/11 10:40 PM |
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tara73
carseat nerd
Member since 11/09 3669 total posts
Name:
Buttercup
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Yeah, the forgiving of student loans I can't get on board with.
Being able to defer them longer, being able to discharge them in bankruptcy under certain situations, yes. I don't think private loans should be given the same protections as government backed, subsidized loans in Bankruptcy. But forgiven? Nope, sorry. Not unless you serve in the peace corps, military, service an impoverished area etc.
Do I think the servicers get overly aggressive? YES they do. I think that 6 month deferment is too short in this economy. I think there should also be CAPS on the amount of money you are able to borrow. I do think the repayment terms need to be revisited.
NO 24 year old should be going into the workforce with 100K+ in debt and only a Bachelor's degree. Maybe MD's because of the length of their schooling and the years of residency but other than that? No.
I get it, people need to go to school these days. But, when I was trying to go to school the first time around, I had to claim my parent's income even though I was estranged from them limiting how much aid I was eligible to receive. I was limited to only taking out Stafford loans since my parents weren't contributing to my education expenses. So I left school. I am currently back in school. DH just finished his degree with less than 20K in loans.
While it may be necessary to get a degree depending upon your goals, no where is it set in stone that you have to do it the day you graduate high school. And, there is also nothing wrong with the trades. Plumbers, carpenters, electricians, mechanics, truck drivers.. we need them just as badly and let's face it: some people are just damned good at working with their hands. Some of us? Well, let's just say we're more Tim Taylors than Bob Vilas lol. There's no shame in an honest day's work!
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| Posted 10/17/11 10:52 PM |
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Daisy32
Mommy
Member since 2/08 8081 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Some of these responses......wow 
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| Posted 10/18/11 8:27 AM |
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LadyPrincess
Live Life with No Regrets
Member since 5/05 2298 total posts
Name:
Chris
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
with over 4k views & 140+ responses on this thread
proves that the OWS issues are a hot topic.
Message edited 10/18/2011 8:37:26 AM.
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| Posted 10/18/11 8:36 AM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
There was a big movement for student loan forgiveness a few years ago and I can't get behind that. Whatever loan debt we have, we took on willingly. We got the education, we hopefully got the piece of paper. What we need is to be able to use it. We need jobs so that people can pay off their loans.
it actually doesn't even serve the students to forgive their loans outright. These loans are a good way for young people to build credit. I've been fortunate to have a job and I paid off one of my smaller loans, and I felt very accomplished in doing so.
I don't think there's any reason to forgive student loan debt. Maybe they can make some better terms considering the poor state of the economy and that it takes people more than 6 months to find a job right now. I think the gov't would be better off using the money some want them to use to forgive loan debt to create some jobs and hire people so that they can do an honest day's work and pay off their loans.
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| Posted 10/18/11 9:40 AM |
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JenniferEver
The Disney Lady
Member since 5/05 18163 total posts
Name:
Jennifer
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
My husband has almost always worked for Wall Street. He works for a major bank right now. It's not the people who work on Wall Street and in finance who are the problem. it's the fact that our entire system is controlled by the wealthiest. Because of lobbying, campaign contributions and corporate personhood  , our democracy is not of the people, by the people and for the people. It's really about banks and corporations.
The problem isn't the specific person who makes a lot of money, but the system that ensures that the wealthy can constantly get wealthier without looking out for the needs of everyone else.
I posted earlier The top 400 people in this country have more wealth than the bottom 150 Million combined. And yet people are saying we should give MORE to the top 400 and just let the bottom 150M starve or die if they don't have health insurance. How is that even remotely ok?
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| Posted 10/18/11 9:45 AM |
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GioiaMia
Let's Go Rangers!
Member since 1/07 14818 total posts
Name:
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
Posted by JenniferEver
There was a big movement for student loan forgiveness a few years ago and I can't get behind that. Whatever loan debt we have, we took on willingly. We got the education, we hopefully got the piece of paper. What we need is to be able to use it. We need jobs so that people can pay off their loans.
it actually doesn't even serve the students to forgive their loans outright. These loans are a good way for young people to build credit. I've been fortunate to have a job and I paid off one of my smaller loans, and I felt very accomplished in doing so.
I don't think there's any reason to forgive student loan debt. Maybe they can make some better terms considering the poor state of the economy and that it takes people more than 6 months to find a job right now. I think the gov't would be better off using the money some want them to use to forgive loan debt to create some jobs and hire people so that they can do an honest day's work and pay off their loans.
I do NOT think they should forgive student loans. . .would I like it? Of course! LOL but obviously it is not going to happen.
I consolidated my student loans, got a great rate and have a very manageable monthly payment. If I am understanding correctly - it is now harder to consolidate and the rates are much higher?
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| Posted 10/18/11 9:46 AM |
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Ophelia
she's baaccckkkk ;)
Member since 5/06 23378 total posts
Name:
remember, when Gulliver traveled....
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
my jaw is still one the floor that some people don't want to "pay" for other people's medical insurance.
next time you go to the doctor, I'd like a thank you card if you are with Emblemhealth, cuz I just helped you with your payment.
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| Posted 10/18/11 9:48 AM |
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Celt
~~~~~~~~~~
Member since 4/08 7758 total posts
Name:
colette
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Re: On the subject of Occupy Wall St...
The thing I don't understand is the complaint that there's "no cohesive message" kwim? Seems pretty cohesive to me. "The system is FOCKED."
The "system" that told us the banks were too big to let fail. The system that gave financial institutions FREE MONEY FROM YOUR POCKET as life support, then stood by and smiled as those institutions fired by the thousands, then handed top execs 8 figure bonuses. 8 figure bonuses after bringing our economy to a near vegetative state. The SYSTEM that has SOCIALIZED LOSSES and PRIVATIZED GAINS. No flucking bueno.
We can poo-poo the protest and the protestors all we want but I am flat-out FLABBERGASTED at some of the interpretations of this movement flying around the web and the offline world. They range from simplistic at best to ignorant at worst with a healthy dose of arrogance mixed in.
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| Posted 10/18/11 9:51 AM |
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